Bitcoin Forum

Whether a post deserves merit or not, it's in the eyes of beholder.

But then I see this,

https://s18.directupload.net/images/190810/8tzohbmy.jpg (https://www.directupload.net)

10 merits?
Single line post?
No substance?

ps: I don't have anything against, the poster guy or the merit giving guy. I just felt like sharing it.

So... What you think?

The poster had some doubts on the project (GOLD) and the merit guy just wanted to show his strong agree. That's all I can think of. As far as I know, merit is not moderated and hence people can freely use it: as a way of agreeing to something, give-to-receive, funny post/comment... I don't think we should be harsh on merit.

Both accounts have recently woken up. aksplace has not posted anything since 2017. He woke up today at 3:54:11 AM, wrote that post at 04:00:05 AM and 5 minutes later, at 04:05:13 he got those 10 merits.
Those are the facts, it's up to the admins and DTs to determine if this is an abuse of the merit system or not.  

Users are free to share their merit with anyone, any amount. The sender felt that he wants to give 10 merits so, he sent it out. No one is obliged to policing here. In rare cases I think theymos said somewhere that he will reverse it.

Anyway, to be honest if I were the user then I would not send that much merit for this response.

I have seen some DTs to tag account for merit abusing but it is no more in practice.

Maybe. Is there a specific guideline on how many merits should be spent on a post or comment? If there is none, there is no need to fuss about how other users distribute their merit.

Here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2818350.0), you will find the best guideline. One just needs to read it.

The post mentioned what posts or comments should be merited but it doesn't specifically answer my question of how many merits should be given. Or did I miss something there?

No such thing as a merit 'rule'. It's a free for all.

Merit as agreement is pretty common. I got 50 merits for one single moan that another poster evidently felt rather strongly about.

If that does not deserve a merit, what can we do? Merit sender has his own decision and he can be bias if he wants to, there's no rules on how merit system should be given, that's only from a sole discretion of the sender, for whatever purpose he wants.

Now that people have noticed how rare merit is to receive I don't think there is many 50 merit transactions. These were probably sent because the merit system was new and people did not know the worth of merits.

All historical sMerit TXs, by amount of merits sent in the TX:

If we delimit the TXs to 2019 TXs, the numbers are as follows:

Both aksplace (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=144660) and BlackBaron (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=388819) are Sr. Member already. They'll need 240 or 250 more Merits to rank up. Even if it was bought, this 10 Merit is an insignificant drop, don't worry about it :)

I've only seen theymos get involved in Merit abuse when it was a Merit source doing it. And there's this (context: theymos was talking to a Merit source):

People have their own rights to use their sendable merits in the way they want. They can send their sMerits to real constructive, and helpful posts (for their needs, or if they simply feel those posts are helpful for other members); or they can send their sMerits to a joke. Users should not think of the forum as an extremely place, and people who stay in front of computer screen need jokes to relax. Hence, joking posts deserve merits in my opinion.
Moreover, merits are not moderated in the forum, if someone don't seriously abuse.
You can receive 10 merits with one post, or 10 merits for 10 posts (all are joking) in WO; or in April Fools. Nothing wrong with it!

For that case, 10 merits for one post, I don't think it should be called as merit abusement.
Even if it is merit abusement, they can not abuse too much. 10 merits sent from A to B, originally; then B can backwards to A 5 merits; next A send to B 2 merits; next B send to B 1 merit; next A can only be able to send last 1 merit to B; B has only 0.5 sMerits and can not abuse more.
In short, if they are abusers and keep abusing, B can get 13 (3 more) merits in total, and A can get back 6 merits in total. They don't move to somewhere else with insignificant received merits, 13 (for B) and 6 (for A).

Nothing to worry about but the 10 Merits has been wasted :(.
If that is distributed to those who are in need then it will better :( Stupid Merit sender.
Probably an account of the receiver or friend. I think there is no punishment to this but to answer your post, obviously this post doesn't deserve 10 merits.

Unless @BlackBaron is a Merit source, there is no risk.
You can spend sMerits as you like but you will have to create high-quality posts to get them.
The manipulation circles will be small and easy to detect so account farming will expose itself to a lot of risks if they try to manipulate.

BTW: Move this topic into ----> Reputation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0)

I think it's very difficult to prove merit abuse.
I'm merit source but I never gave so much merits for one single post.
I always try to give merit for good quality posts, constructive posts which can benefit others.
But, it's me and others have other ways how to give merits, so it's difficult to judge here.
It's not against the rules to give so much merit for one post unless it's some kind of manipulation.

Yes, but you consistently write very well-written posts, regardless of whether they're moaning about something or not (though 50 merits is kind of extreme).  In the example OP showed, I would definitely say that the post was not worth 10 merits even if there was strong agreement with it.  On the other hand, you are correct--it is a free-for-all with merits, and some folks don't understand how valuable merits really are.

Having said that,


The above is good evidence that this wasn't just a case of one member agreeing with somebody's post.  I would strongly suspect that this is someone giving merits to an alt account or a friend.  Not that it would have done much good, though.  He still has to hit 500 merits to reach Hero member, and that's a long ways away.

In any case, I highly doubt any DT member is going to take action and it's certain that no moderator will.  This is probably misuse of merit, but who knows.  All I know is that I've stopped looking for cases of merit abuse since it's very subjective and Theymos doesn't want anyone to tag merit abusers unless it's very blatant and excessive.  This doesn't rise to that level IMO.

Merit abuse and not knowing the value of sMerits are tooo different things which might appear to be the same thing. I do not think that the post deserved 10 merit but from a point of view of someone who does not know the value and rarity of sMerit they might be more willing to send high amounts. 10 sMerit is might upper limit of a great post for me to merit 10 merit it would have to have either required a lot of effort to do (like DdmrDdmr posts) or a very detailed reply. If I had sMerit to give I would have sent some to DdmrDdmr's post above as that's yet again another great informative post by them.

The post doesn't deserve 10 merit by any of the forum standards and I think we can all agree on that. However the evidence provided is not good enough as its a one off transaction. If we were to see constant transactions between these members for a long period of time for equally as shit posts then that would probably warrant a more thorough investigation. 

I believe this is a free 'place' wherein you can do what you want as long you are bind with the rules and regulation, but then some rules are made in general term and there is no specific sub-section so it can be interpret in some manners.

As for the merit, if you have many, you can give it to anyone you would like to have since its your privilege to use them, give them as a gift, a token of appreciation, as a reward, a gift to someone. (if he is not a source of merit that is replenished by the management) So it will depleted soon till he can no longer give one so there is no issue at all.

The other thing is that, the 'abuse' of using merit is another thing, as long as he is not using this merit to gas his other account, or selling this merit to other user then its okay, since there he did not break any rules then as for me also it is fine, but, let's say he did break the rules, then everyone is free to present the issue and the evidence.

That's my idea.

PS: 'Some issues about merit giving/awarding post' is just because of people's jealousy, that even how hard they make fantastic post no-one is just giving them merit. Correct me if I am wrong.

Stating a comment has no substance is purely your personal opinion. I don't think it deserves 10 but I can consider giving it a single merit. 

You could be right but if you feel the need to discuss this further, it is better to create your own thread. I'm not sure which board is better, Meta or Reputation.

I do not quite agree with this, I do not believe that merits should ever be given as a gift. One of the definitions of what a gift is, is: "something gained incidentally without effort".
And effort and quality are two indispensable factors that ought to be present in one's post before such person should be merited, except it's a merit for something being comical or witty, then it's understandable.

But gifting out merits for absolutely nothing whatsoever, post lacking quality, effort, or isn't in any way witty or interesting. Then I think it's not just cool, it may not be wrong in the rules, but it just feels wrong to do so.

A simple guess is, the user is just trying to get into a paid bitcoin signature campaign anything soon as most campaigns now requires at least 5+ earned merit to be eligible or altcoin signature campaigns that require earned merits to be accepted (seen few lately with that requirement). The possibilities of both account been operated by the small individuals is there but since there isn't any evidence we just have to assume they're different individuals.

OP since you're kinda interested in the accounts involve you can keep an eye on what the reciever does next like if account trys to join a campaign that requires earned merit. Then the whole merit transaction becomes suspicious for now it's just one of those emotional meriting cases.

Obviously not, we have rights on what amount of merits we will give to a user. Let the campaign manager judge those, I know that he/she will not get into any campaigns.


Agree though, merits are for information or statements that might help the other users here. As long as the user appreciate the work of another user, he/she can merit those. I can't recognize it as a gift, it's a different aspect, merits should be given away to those deserving people not for personal desires.

I thought maybe this had something to do between the idol and the fans. Because as we know, even one word from the idol will be so meaningful for his fans   :o

It is nearly like merit begging, between fan and idol, that is discouraged here. I don't call it is merit abusements or serious merit abusement, but user should avoid to send their smerits this way. It is discouraged (like account sellings) and should be avoided!
If an idol give hands and help to answer questions of fans to help them solve their issues, yeah, in this case, idols and their posts deserve merits. In contrast, it is not best way to use smerits for non-sense posts, but sometimes joking posts are nonsense for some people but make sense for others.
If someone don't seriously abuse merits, just let it be. They won't go to anywhere with it, and don't leave you behind them. Theymos emphasize about that.

For short, giving merits to poor statements is not valid. It will just serve as a helping hand for those who wanted to rank up. I know we're struggling to rank but It's better to rank up using the merits that we received because of quality posts.

Just think wisely, when we will give those merits, we should have standards on giving one.

It is difficult to suggest that these two are alt accounts on the basis that they recently woke up. Since there is no moderation on merits, we cannot criticize it. Maybe Blackboran like this post too much while rest of us has no value for that post.

I wasn't suggesting they are alt accounts. I was just stating the facts as described in my previous post. If they are alts or not is not for me to decide. If the merit sender thinks that post deserves those merits it's his decision.

Quite possibly, it could have been a typo, @BlackBaron meant to send 1 merit and mistakenly send 10.

Don't want to drag this any further, just a thought lol.

ps: Tag system would be good idea, I think.

If that guy sent 10 merits due to typo (10 instead of 1), and carelessness (not check amount before clicking on Send button); there is no reason to tag that guy.
10 merits are small amount, and do not large enough to call as merit abusements. Tagging someone because sending 10 merits for a non-sense posts will make them paranoid. There are many posts like that, especially from renowned users.

Case should be closed, in my opinion.