Bitcoin Forum

Crypto exists as a highly volatile, and heavily manipulated commodity. Just in the past 7 months bitcoin has gone from $3,300 to $13,800 and is currently at $11,350. If during all that time you have only made a 20% profit you are a terrible crypto investor.

Crypto is not a governmentally regulated security. It is a high risk, high reward. When you invest in crypto you are putting your money at high risk, there is no FDIC backing your deposit, there is no SEC investigating the earnings reports, you could even lose the private key and lose your money forever. Which is why, when I invest in crypto I expect at least a 2X return with expectation of 3X-4X returns.

In no other investment has it been possible to expect such a return of 4X within a year. That is what makes bitcoin and crypto special. It is high risk high REWARD.

The problem is, crypto is new. People don’t understand what it is. People don’t know how to measure it, quantify it, capitalize on it. Crypto is for most, a mystical “digital money” that sometimes is 20k and other times it is 3k.

I started my crypto journey with $800 of severance from my last regular job. Over 2016 that $800 turned into $30,000. Over 2017, that $30,000 changed to $250,000, and I made plenty of stupid mistakes. 2018 was a cold year. It was a learning year. I spent most of my time developing my metrics and honing my understanding.

In my experience crypto is for multiplying money not for gaining percentages. By understanding the speculation in the market, understanding how much it costs to make a bitcoin, and selling or buying slowly with purpose and patience anyone can multiply their investment. It took 4.5 months to go from $3,300 to $13,800.

I made my site and my metrics in order for people to understand what they are investing in. So they could buy when its $3,300 and sell when its $13,800, and understand what they are doing and know what they are buying and selling.

I caution against purchasing $11,350 bitcoin by asking these questions.
What do you expect from it?
Do you expect bitcoin to go to 20K magically?
Is it a bad idea to be patient right now?

Check out my site, take my masterclass, see what I’m working with. I made it totally free just for you.

https://www.amsinger.org (https://www.amsinger.org)

Much love and hard work,

Aaron

yes altcoins are heavily manipulated but not bitcoin, at least not anymore. the bigger bitcoin market gets the harder it will be to manipulate it and it has grown so much in the past 10 years that the manipulations have shrank down a lot. while they still dominate the altcoin market.

i strongly disagree, specially if you are talking about trading cryptocurrencies not just bitcoin. if you could secure 20% profit in a shitcoin that is getting pumped it is so much better than trying to make 1000% profit and risk getting dumped on without being able to pull anything out.

what returns you expect should not be a general thing for all situations. it differs based on the situation. for example was in a day trading thing or a long term investment. was it during a bull run or a bear market. was it bitcoin or an altcoin. was it during the pump of the altcoin or when it was at the bottom,....
each scenario means a different approach and a different profit target.

that is because a lot of people in this market have no understanding of what cryptocurrencies are. they just see some numbers in their monitor which magically (in their eyes) go up and down.
otherwise those with understanding of the technology also understand there is nothing "mystical" about it! and the value can also be quantified.

this is yet another dangers of this market. it can easily give newcomers a false sense of expertise. for example during 2017 if you closed your eyes and selected any coin randomly and thrown money at it, you could make a ton of profit.
many of those who made such profits, thought they have mastered this market and that led to massive losses a couple of months later when the reality hit.

I understand what you are trying to say but you should know that , the profit one makes depends upon the investment he is willing to do at the same time people are not that free to take part in active trading therefore most of people engage in holding bitcoins for a long time .
Then there comes countries where the banks have denied access to do anything with cryptocurrencies and I think this have hindered thousands , when you have an active bank account plus and active wallet balance then only it does work..
Otherwise the profit is not worth mentioning.

Cryptocurrency provides us with very great financial opportunities. Increasing your amount in cryptocurrency from $ 800 to $ 250,000 in 2016-2017 is pretty good. 2018 was a year of loss for everyone, especially for those who were selling their assets in cryptocurrency at that time.
It is hoped that in the coming years, cryptocurrency will also provide us with the opportunity to profit using the experience already accumulated during this time.

%20 profit is excellent for every business.but especially in crypto, with fomo effect its hard to predict where it ends so we were all exit trade earlier many tiimes.if you think like that %20 is not good if coin made %70-%80. But its not a wise way to trade.

It's better to take 20% of the profit than never, and we can repeat to get those percentage many times than to try to get 1000%, but we need to wait for a long time. Maybe that will work for some investor, but for me, I prefer to get any profit without having to wait for a long time because of the cryptocurrency market cannot be predicted. But that will depend on every people strategy on how much percentage they are willing to take and as long as they can succeed to reach the target.

Do you know the current ROI for the United States Treasury bonds? It is somewhere in the vicinity of 3% per year for 30-year bonds. If you want to invest in a "safe asset", then this is the sort of return that you get. From your post, you are admitting that BTC gave a return of 244% during the last 4 months. Annualized, that gives a return of almost 7.2x. Let me know which other asset will give you returns anywhere near.

I have been to this market for quite some time (from 2012), and I am very happy with the sort of returns we had so far in 2019. Forget 244%, I'd be happy of I get 30% returns per year. BTW, I had purchased my coins for $10 per coin in 2012. Since then, it gave me more than 1,000x returns. Those times will never come back, so I'd rather advice you to enjoy wherever returns you get. Greed can destroy everything.

Seriously? Almost everyone would be happy with a return of 3-4%. Its all about profit at the end of the day. Small profit is better than no profit at all. Very few traders actually manage to earn huge profits on a regular basis in this extremely volatile market.

Personally, I am a HODLER and I have managed to earn around 1-2% every month through my investments which is small profit, but I am satisfied. Scenarios like the 2017 bull run happen once in a blue moon and you cannot rely on them regularly.

Cryptocurrency is your freedom of financial breakthrough. You've your wealth in your hand's. The higher you invest the more wealth you get. I don't believe that someone can loss money in bitcoin rather you gain. Investing in bitcoin requires patience to see positive result. There's no harm investing big in bitcoin

I made about 800%+ profit on my first bitcoins that I bought and that was enough to cover 40 years investment is something else that I could have invested it in for a guaranteed return of 20% per year. So, I am quite happy that I did not have to wait 40 years to make the same returns.  ;D

I re-invested some of that profit to buy more bitcoins and I dumped some of that money into the other investment where I get 20% per year, so for the next 38 years, I would still make 20% profit on top of that 800% profit I already made. <The other option is a medium risk investment>  ::)


What is the catch, what do you get from spending your time on free courses?

It's true getting 20% profit in crypto is somehow terrible, but it is better than holding a bunch of it waiting to get more profit then all of a sudden the price crash.  The high volatility of cryptocurrency makes us gain more than 100% profit in a short span of time but it also risk us of lossing 100% of our investment if we failed to sell before the dump.  I have experienced both, gaining more than 1000% and losing 100% of my investment in separate occasion.

I don't think making 20 percent profit is bad in any industry, and I'd still love to make a 20 percent profit of my investments in crypto.

I agree with you saying that crypto is usually quite volatile and often it's seen as a huge risk, huge reward sort of situation, but there are a lot of investments that are still fairly stable (other then stablecoins).

I think your mindset is much too greedy when dealing with crypto - be happy with any money you make.

Short Answer: Always buy when others want to sell.
I know some of those who bought at $ 20,000 and lost all their money in a few months "precisely less than a year" as the price dropped below $ 3,000.
There is no specific law governing the rise and no one would have thought we would reach the $ 1200 level before the end of the year.
  What you think is a terrible deal now may be the best investment you have ever made.
  Think rationally and don't let your emotions manipulate you.

You're thinking BTC is just a quick investment and one day or another will disappear, and have to get as money as possible in the process

I see BTC in a different way, I'm here trying to accumulate more BTC in this process, I trust in the technology and want to be prepared for the future, with BTC in my pockets

That's true. A lot of people are always looking at BTC as an investment that can only go up, and constantly thinking that the market will always be a bull one. The drop from 20,000 to 3,000, as painful as it was, was really good for the crypto environment and flushed out a lot of the people who were only profit-based and also killed a lot of the scam ICO's that plagued the scene for a couple months.

Very well said, mate. I agree with this a lot - BTC is too voliate for everyone to believe it to be the best investment ever.

Your story OP is lack of your personal experience so what happened to your $250,000? did you get rekt? because the year of 2018 as you've said, it's a cold year and one of the most discouraging year for most.

I guess that $250k of yours became lower in market value if you haven't sold. But if you have sold and took that $250k, you are richer today and did the bought again last year.

Profit is still profit. We trade in the crypto world to get the slightest and highest profit. And when trading, we will not know that we can profit a few percent.

I'd say that relatively speaking 20% profit is not too bad.

Of course there is the potential to make massive gains, but it really depends on your overall mentality towards crypto. Hindsight tells us that hodling has been an excellent means to making tremendous gains depending on your entry and exit (if you do) points.

So you're actually trying to say that a higher amount of profits is terrible because it's hard to get? Shouldn't you think about your skills hen?


If you hold shitcoins that exit scam their investors then holding is a terrible idea. People should be careful with the holding idea. It's riskier than trading in some cases.

Exactly a good point. For me it is the more risky aspect of crypto because some coins would never get to the last ATH. They will keep diminishing until fissle off. I think a convenient profit is good enough than waiting for eternity to buy a limo at one dump of a coin. ;D

Very true, that is why I use numbers and logic to guide my trading:

https://www.amsinger.org (https://www.amsinger.org)

I see no reason to not use logic and numbers.

Aaron

These are your other threads:

The 5 Rules that would have saved me THOUSANDS. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5174101.msg52112732#msg52112732) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

Think of Bitcoin Financially (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5168168.msg51927614#msg51927614) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

Why $13,000 was unsustainable. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163921.msg51778965#msg51778965) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

The most important part of investing in bitcoin is timing. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163581.msg51769052#msg51769052)  ( you created a thread to promote your site )

Why was this recent downturn not surprising? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5155893.msg51517648#msg51517648) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

Does bitcoin have FUNDAMENTALS?!?! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5151989.msg51386109#msg51386109) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

How to know Feb 7 was the optimal buy point 2019 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5151637.msg51376750#msg51376750) ( you created a thread to promote your site )

and has this: https://www.amsinger.org/subscription-plans

https://i.imgur.com/cbvPKxE.png

Hodling is not less risky than trading in some cases,,, I 100% agree. But the problem is that people keep thinking in altcoins. Holding BTC today means you have the exact same amount of BTC in 1 week, 1 year, 10 years. And if you believe in crypto,,, then you believe BTC will always have a good value, maybe even increasing every few years.

In the crypto spcae, return on investments are what keeps investors more concerned and interested in taking key roles nad keeping big bags of coins/tokens which in turn earns them the title of 'whales'. The profit or return on investment in crypto can go from one percent to one million percent in a very short time depending on certain factors put up by the project and also their tokenomics. 20% of profit is achievable on a project whose use case is already in high demand and also welcomed and keeps to its roadmap delivery to the users.

My class is free. I'm touched you would care so much to inspect my previous threads and posts. I didn't know you cared so much ;)

All of my threads reflect my view on bitcoin. Perhaps you have bought some $13,800 bitcoin and are mad?

What I am saying in this thread is simply a 20% yearly return is not worth the risk of investing in crypto. Bitcoin went from $3,300 to $13,800 if you only can make 20% off of that level of variability that demonstrates a lack of skill.

https://www.amsinger.org (https://www.amsinger.org)

I made my site to help people identify that good $3,300 btc buy and find that good $13,800 btc sell ;)

It is based in financial analysis of the miners plain and simple,

Aaron

Personally, I think getting a return of investment of 20% in any trade or business is okay. A lot of people lose money because of greed. As long as it is steady, I will be more than happy to get a ROI of 20%.

Profit of 20% is also quite good, I do not understand why you think this is something terrible

When you can get 20% of the profit, that will be a nice profit because not all people or trader could earn that much. And they still say that it is hard to earn that percentage from cryptocurrency. We need to think about reality. If we cannot get 50% of the profit, then 20% of the profit would be better than nothing at all. It is enough to earn that profit in these situations because I think we will make a bigger profit when the bear market trend is over, and every price in the market can increase higher.

History at all levels, including finance, is cyclical, consisting of repeating phases, with low highs, new peaks and deep falls,
so, yes, BTC, will touch the 20k $ again and I think it will go even further.

The point of this thread is to say that crypto is too risky to consider 20% a good yearly return. Securitized assets can return 20% bitcoin if handled correctly should return significantly more due to the risk nature of it.

If you want to learn more check out my Crypto Masterclass:

https://www.amsinger.org/information-request (https://www.amsinger.org/information-request)

Aaron

Up till now, do you know that we still have people that believe bitcoin will still go as low as $100?This has been their belief even when bitcoin was at that $100 till right in their presence, it grew to that $13800, and this is going to be more like your own belief also till you miss out of the train, and I don’t know if what you are trying to create with your post is FUD, thinking you could use that to get a cheaper price to buy, but man, it’s too late.

Bitcoin grew from $3000 to $13800, and imagine you saying this then too, I mean asking if we think bitcoin will grow from $3000 to $13800 over night? But here we are, it grew to people’s surprise, and this is the same way it will grow to the surprise of people like you over night and you will still miss out of the train if you do not invest in the current value.

Look at my previous posts. I have been active on here since last year. This new system was designed to make it easy. Bitcoin goes up and then it goes down. Don’t you want to enjoy your life and make a nice 2-3x from simply paying attention. Crypto doesn’t have to be hard or complex. It’s about understanding it.

Can the market really be understood?, up till now I still do not know the reason, or rather the cause of a rise or fall in price, and I guess no one does, except you simply wanna speculate, which i also can afford to do.

You make it sound like its a get rich quick scheme, and it bothers me when I see posts so as this, I understand you're trying to point out the possibility of big profits which we all aspire for, but you're also forgetting big losses which is also another possible factor.
Whether it's a 20% profit or a 2x profit, as long as no loss was incurred, then it's not bad trading at all in my opinion.

Most things can be understood. I simply utilize financial analysis to understand the largest players in the market and identify what they are doing logically. I see the market as heavily manipulated, so that explains the massive swings. The stability at 3300 for all of the winter was because of the creation cost.

If you take the massive risks inherent in crypto to receive a 20% profit is like risking your life to rob a bank and only getting $1000. Yeah it’s profit, but was it worth it? I leave the question to you ;)

It really can be easy. Personally I think it would be hard to build an electric toothbrush, but it is easy to buy one.

Aaron

I dont agree with you ,20% is a very nice profit.
It depends on the timeframe and amount of your investment .

If you invest 100$ then it feels like nothing, but if you have the guts to invest 1000$ or more and if you take your profit at 20% at small timefram you are a good trader and if you can manage to do it on regular basis, I will take my hat off in front of you, my sir.

20% in a small timeframe is equivalent to gambling. I’m talking about the people who bought and are buying 10k bitcoin and made 20% IF they sold at 12k. That is completely equivalent to gambling. I don’t gamble. I invest.

Now, 20% profit is very good, especially if you invest a lot. Suppose, you buy Bitcoin spending 20 thousand. Will 4 thousand be a bad award? No way.  Cryptocurrencies profits cannot be compared with the awards (if they can be called like that) got for sharing guns and drugs. Cryptocurrencies will live always, and it is worth working with them for sure.

How did you go from 800 to 350k?


I think any profit is a good profit. 20% is amazing, imagine if you lost money. Staying at 0% is not bad it just means you made nothing. anything over 0% is in the green anything more is just a bonus.
Rather make slow steady amounts of crypto then dive right in and try whale your way around.

800 to 350k was insight and quite a bit of luck.  Not gonna lie I was a little scamp 3 years ago lol.

But 20% is good in stocks. 20% in crypto can be dissolved in a day, it’s not good it is luck.

In crypto if you’re invested right 20% down is also nothing.

Crypto is about multiplication. It’s about being in at the right time and OUT at the right time ;)

Aaron

https://www.amsinger.org/

I'd say good.
I've seen quite a few people got rekt and a -90% profit due to greedy.

It’s not greedy in crypto to expect 2x.... it’s greedy to expect 10x NOW, 2017 not so much lol

Crypto is too risky to expect 20%. Too many traps, too dangerous. If you want 20% value invest in the us stock market.

You dont do crypto to get peanuts. You do crypto to multiply.

I agree with you. It depends on how much money we use to invest so we can calculate how much profit we want to get. That is not a problem if we cannot make a big profit in one-time because we have so many times to make more and more profit in the future. With the fluctuated of the crypto market, I think we can have a chance to see the low price and the high price every day, weeks, months so we can try to make a bigger profit too. Don't be jealous of other people who can make a thousand dollars every time they trade because we don't know how much balance they used for trading.

That is exactly the greed that usually do people, same greed that affected me when the price of bitcoin got to $13800, I knew that the increase was not the type that would be heading to bull run, and when my coin grew from $7000 to $13800, my instinct told me to sell off and then probably buy back at a cheaper rate when it dumps, but I was waiting for bitcoin to reach $15k before I pull out the money.

Was the profit between $7k and $13 not enough for me to have pulled out? That was how bitcoin drastically dropped now, and if I had sold at that time and taking the percentage increase, I would probably have bought back when the price dropped to $8k and then have more of bitcoin in my account now. So we really need to learn to stop being greedy on crypto trades.

Greed will destroy your ability to think correctly in crypto. You have to think with numbers in all types of investing.

That's sounds very crytpo to me lol .. but here the problem from my point of view :

- people tend to speculative when it comes to crypto investment / trading that's why most people here make an insane target like 500% to even 2000% , why? Because they have experienced it in the past and willing to repeat the same thing over and over again. It could happened but yes that's so speculative.

- timing is they key , and it's smells about luck or not. I mean making an investment on crypto at the right time might get you a 300% easily and guess (honestly i experienced it a couple times) it feel like things that happened to me is 30% my analysis skills and the rest of it just luck , don't ya?

Strike a balance between skills and luck is needed , otherwise ... getting 5% to 10% daily or 100% to 150% in the long term isn't bad at all, cheers!