Bitcoin Forum

Hi, I created a thread two days ago. Here is the link.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5176246
I discussed about the effect of BAKKT on future of bitcoin and one of my concerns was how bitcoin is treated by BAKKT as an investment and store of value.
In some of replies I got, people believe that there is no problem if bitcoin remains an investment forever and won't be a currency.
What do you think? What will happen if bitcoin won't be a currency and it remains an investments like it is today?
I personally believe that people now thinks that bitcoin is a good investment because they believe that bitcoin will be a currency. In other words, bitcoin is the future currency. In my opinion, if bitcoin is not supposed to be a currency, it cannot survive forever as an investment. Why should people invest in something that has not any benefit?
What do you think?

Despite of physical futures Bakkt will also offer e-commerce
Bakkt count on participation of biggest e-commerce companies
Users will have choice to pay with bitcoin or fiat
Bakkt will provide his service to other than  USA countries later on

You don't have to think that there's some sort of binary choice that Bitcoin will either be a currency or an asset, Bitcoin is a protocol, it doesn't care how it is used - all transactions are equal. You can't stop people from using it however they like, that's the beauty of Bitcoin. Satoshi described it as peer-to-peer electronic cash, but since then people have discovered other uses, and it's okay. The only thing that Bitcoin really needs is popularity - the more people use it, the more value it has, and the more value it has, the more PoW it can attract, and more PoW means more security.

I know popularity makes bitcoin price higher and I know more demand cause higher prices. You are right.
But Assume that today is 2050. People are still hodling bitcoins, But you cannot use bitcoin for your daily payments. Do you think people will still invest in something that has no visible and real benefit after over 40 years of existence? Do you think bitcoin will still remain popular if it is not used for payments?

Bitcoin should be used for payments. That's the only way it can be viable. Anything outside of that is a waste of time.

I will keep saying it, the current trends of holding and never let go will only cause more harm to Bitcoin. I won't mind becoming an activist in this  ;D ;D ;D

If bitcoin(with the small 'b', as in the currency) fails to be a currency or at least a SoV, then it simply failed in general. But, bitcoin is already being used as a currency now though, just currently not in a global scale as we're aiming it to be. Bitcoin can be both a currency and an investment. In fact, bitcoin needs all the traders and investors for it to have higher liquidity. Higher liquidity is absolutely necessary for it to be stable in terms of price some time in the future; which, a stable price is definitely needed for it to be a successful day-to-day currency for the masses.

Gold is not used for payments anymore, yet it's still a hugely popular investing asset. Bitcoin can easily succeed as a digital gold. I'm not a huge fan of bitcoin-as-store-of-value idea, because like I've said in previous post, Bitcoin can easily be many things at once, and I think it's the most likely scenario. I also don't see why it won't be used for payments - maybe it will only be used for big payments instead of cups of coffee, but buying cars, houses or fine art is still payments. Unlike gold, Bitcoin is very suitable for that.

An asset with no utility other than being a store-of-value has very little value. I believe that acting solely a store-of-value would not be enough in order for Bitcoin to sustain itself. The main issue is stability. If Bitcoin is used solely as a store-of-value, then it is nothing more than a speculative bubble, at any price. That makes it an unreliable store-of-value and a poor store-of-value.

Bitcoin cannot succeed solely as a store of value. It must have significant utility in order to sustain its value. Usage as a medium-of-exchange would give it that utility. The utility of a medium-of-exchange is necessary for the success of Bitcoin and will allow it to also be used as a store-of-value.

Yes, Gold is not used for payments. But it has many other applications and advantages. Gold is a metal having some especial and unique properties that no other metal has them. Gold is shiny. Gold is beautiful. Gold is not destroyed by water or fire. It is not even destroyed over time. I don't want to talk scientifically and I have not enough knowledge.
I agree that gold is also limited and its one of the main reasons of its value but it has many other applications. But bitcoin have no other application than being used as a payment system. I suggest you research about gold, its features and uses.

what do people mean by currency? like a medium of exchange? paying for goods and services with it?

it seems to me that bitcoin already is---and will continue to be---used as both a medium of exchange and an investment/store of value. how important either use case is to any one person boils down to speculation and rational greed. some people are happy to spend coins at any price, others wait for higher prices, others will hoard for years and years. i don't see a problem with any approach. why does it need to be one or the other (currency vs investment)?

If you think Bitcoin has not any benefits, then why people trust to invest in it for years?
For me, Bitcoin has value and benefits, that why it can be converted to Fiats. You are no need to compare it to Gold because they are incomparable. As long as people agree that Bitcoin is a legitimate digital investment, then it has value, right?


It is a personal opinion, mate. They can state everything based on their understanding. But Bitcoin is created with a purpose, we can read it on the whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf. Based on the WP, for me, the ultimate purpose is to make it be the world's electronic cash used for online payments on various purposes.

bitcoin is an "investment" right now because it is a "currency".

people don't invest in bitcoin, and the price doesn't go up, just because they see some virtual numbers and hashes on their computer screen. bitcoin has value and gains value because they can use those "virtual" numbers to buy "real" stuff. that is what makes bitcoin real and gives it utility and the value.


gold has at least 50 other use cases. so even if it is not used as a "currency" it still is used for a lot of other things. what is the other usages of bitcoin other than being a currency?

For Bitcoin to be accepted as a currency it has to go through strict regulations. Not many people what to entirely responsible to the safe keeping and management of their total assets as it is with cryptocurrency and wallets.
We would have cryptocurrency banks and what not.
I don't know whether this would be good or bad for the currency.

According to investopedia.com¹, the definition of currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services, which is usually issued by the government and generally accepted at its face value as a method of payment.
In order to satisfy the conditions of bitcoin being a currency, it must FIRST be issued by the government and SECOND being accepted as a medium of exchange of its face value.

Being decentralized and free from any control, bitcoin has a volatile and unstable price that is determined by law of supply and demand. Being a medium which is also limited in supply, the price may vary considerably when it starts to reaches its supply count. From those scenarios alone, I doubt that bitcoin would be regarded as a 'national currency' of every country.

Nevertheless, bitcoin is being used as an investment alternative which has the potential of earning large amounts of returns in a relatively short amount of time. Regardless, I personally think that bitcoin does not need to be a currency but remains as to what it is performing currently.

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^{1 https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/currency.asp}

It needs to be a currency in order to be a good investment, that is for long term, though it's already good now but price just rise because people speculate and they believe that bitcoin is gonna be mainstream in the future, if that will not happen, then BTC will not be a good investment as no demand means no price increase.

I think people should not put Bitcoin's use case in a "box" and should rather promote it's multi functionality. Why should Bitcoin only have to be one thing, why not have it do several things? You can use cash as a payment option, but you can also trade cash on Forex as an investment option, so why should Bitcoin be any different that cash or fiat currencies?

People use Gold for different things too and nobody is complaining about that, so let's give Bitcoin wings to fly and let it be what people wants it to be.  :P

If bitcoin is to be used alone as store of value, it may never really function well and may crash along the line because it is not designed to be so, what makes bitcoin what it is now is actually the constant demand for it, and if we are to use it for investment alone, the level of constant demand will reduce, because if I feel $1000 is what I want to invest in bitcoin, that is what I will invest and waiting for increase.

If I am using it as currency, I could take that $1000 through the market several time, maybe I need to pay for an imported goods that will cost me about $100,000, I imagine how much bitcoin I will demand for at that time just from a single transaction and from a single person, so because demand is what drives bitcoin price, it needs to be used often.

Bitcoin has to be a currency so it will be able to retain it's demand and will continue to be valuable.
Why are people investing in bitcoin? That's the question everyone should know, and the answer is very simple, they invest because they believe that bitcoin is gonna be the best online currency in the future, and that would not happen if adoption will not grow.

Now, the next question, how did we rate the adoption of bitcoin? for me, I think the adoption rate is moving at a positive rate because more people are now aware of bitcoin, this attracts them because at the same time they can also use it an investment and a currency.

Bitcoin is an investment for me, but I still think Bitcoin is a currency used on enternet, but unfortunately, too few people know about Bitcoin.

Well, the possibility of the emergence of Bitcoins as a new world currency becomes even more important, given that at present, China insists on using Bitcoin as a reserve. I would also like to note that Bitcoin is not controlled from a military point of view, its decentralization makes this direction irrelevant.

Cryptocurrency cannot be limited to any party, which completely excludes the imposition of any sanctions.

It is a currency, no doubt about that.

I guess what you are really implying to is about the usage.
Yes, that is one problem in many cases of crypto currencies also in altcoin section.
Merchants are still doubting the usage of crypto currencies specially Bitcoin.
The volatiliy is still their one of the most                                                                      

You cannot change it from the outside, Bitcoin is what it is, wherever you accept it (legalize it) or not (criminalize it). The State is banging its head against the wall, it will have to cede sooner than later, they cannot contain it no matter what. It was literally designed to go around such things.

So, can they block you and me from, you paying me in bitcoin, and me paying you in bitcoin? No they can't. So yes its a currency, with or without their blessing. You can see it as a store of value, because it happens to be deflationary, but it is about time a deflationary coin returned, ever since humanity abandoned precious metals as coins due to several historical reasons and other factors, usually tied with governments trying to mess with the economy and getting burnt in the process.

So separating State from Currency once and for all, is none the less what bitcoin is achieving, successfully. Welcome those States that accept it, and shame the small group scared of it, because they can't manipulate it like the always did with fiat.

I hope they are also aware that we have a lot of altcoins particularly the stable coins which purpose is to eliminate the volatility.
We have a lot of popular stable coins in the market which liquity is high and I think that's big enough to cater the businesses that would accept bitcoin as a currency. In fact Tether has the biggest trading volume in the market now.

Wow - what an interesting range of replies, and I'd like to make some comments and venture some opinions.

There is no "the" government, the closest is probably the Anglophone empire which controls the central banks.

Fiat currencies are not created by governments, they are created by the central banks, governments just print notes based on currency they have borrowed from the banks.

Gold is increasing in use as a currency as the US dollar loses its status as a reserve currency. Because of its high value, it is used nainly at corporate and state levels, and by major crime organisations.

Gold is legal tender in a number of countries, and the UK is one of these. The Sovereign ( £1 face value ), and the Britannia ( £100 face value ). Of course the real value is probably 10 times the face value, and I suspect they maintain their status as legal tender to help the rich to avoid various taxes.

Bitcoin will continue to increase in value in my opinion, and this will remove whole Bitcoins from the reach of most peiople. However, the Satoshi has a much more manageable value, and this could well become a generally accepted unit of international currency. Even if the value of Bitcoin increases to astronomical levels, the Satoshi still has the capability of further sub-division, for example a micro Satoshi could be used with a value of one millionth of a Satoshi.

Bitcoin is multifunctional and I think it would be foolish to use it only as an investment and store of value.

Bitcoin is a currency just before it came out  but it does not mean that it should sustain this characteristics in order for him to succeed  because btc can still work perfectly even on an asset form  .  

can you picture out gold ?  Gold is not a currency but why people loves to buy and invest on gold ?  Simply because its precious or valueable same as bitcoin  . but like gold people can use it as a means of currency if ever they want to or if ever cash is not available .

Bitcoin is a digial currency. Now since we have other currencies to trade it against there came the concept of forex in the traditional markets and fiat<>crypto exchanges in the bitcoin sector. While this leads to a speculative market it does not mean that the currencies came as investments. They are all different currencies in the first place. Today the people who are trading bitcoin and making profit from doing so are getting rich from their "investment" but it did not start out for that.

Think of it as you think suits you. Everyone has their own opinion here but this is most common explanation.

Bitcoin in the future could serve as an alternative means of currency, but as at present, it does not necessarily have to be a currency before one can use it. As a matter of fact, its usage is widely adopted.
Bitcoin been seen as a currency or as an investment, one thing is that people will always involve on what will give them returns(profit) on their investment.

I think that it is not very important that BTC  is a currenc yfirst and asset second in short term, it is good enough that it gets more people to see it as investment first. It is a good thing that regulations allow BTC to be seen as asset and therefore invested in. In time ti will become more accepted as currency always or other coins will emerge to be payment option.

Bitcoins being used as a currrency would be beneficial to the cryptocurrency in the long run but most users have come to the notion that it is always more profitable to hodl their bitcoins and wait for the next bull run where they will sell their bitcoins and  make some profits from it.

a "currency" is something that you could use as a medium of exchange. meaning if you for example went to a restaurant and wanted to pay for your meal with that thing you could. so since you can not pay for launch with gold, then gold is not a currency.
in fact it has not been used as a currency for a very long time now.

When the price of bitcoin rises very high, for example $ 100k, people will not think of paying using bitcoin, they prefer to save it and hope that the rise in bitcoin prices will continue. For many people, bitcoin is a long-term investment or store of value and may be a substitute for gold

The future of bitcoin is bright as a mode of payment that is accepted by all people. We are in the 21st century and e-commerce is the order of the day. The best description of bitcoin has always been a digital currency that can be used to make payments online.

I say this again also here. Bitcoin mainchain can not work properly as cryptocurreny.

Its too slow and too expensive. You can not pay in supermarket with Bitcoin without any company or add on. So only add on solutions make it a currency.

Thats right, in the outer packaging of bitcoin is currency, there is no doubt about that. but we know that only a few merchants accept payments with bitcoin, even we are very difficult to find it right? so do not be surprised if many people still question the actual function of bitcoin?

The concept was to create an alternate currency for everyone controlled by no one. Bitcoins's primary job was to make life simple for a common man when he is looking to transfer fiat from one location to another over the internet. To do so Bitcoin needed a Fiat value and for this it needed investment. Without it being a currency there will not be any investment.

This means Bitcoin not only has to become a good payment system but also needs to behave as an alternative currency to surpass Fiat and create its own value. At the moment it is considered more a commodity and compared with gold. Slowly the whole concept is changing to something else. This will lead to more HODLing and less trading.

I think that bitcoin can be used in different ways because of its functionality. This creates an opportunity to choose a person what he likes best.

I didn't ask about bitcoin application nor the purpose of its creation. I am aware of how bitcoin works, what are the benefits and how can people take the advantages of it. My concern was only about how bitcoin is being treated by people. My concern was considering bitcoin as an investment and being far from the main purpose of bitcoin. I also know that bitcoin is now accepted by few merchants as a payment system.

Satoshi Nakamoto designed Bitcoin as a digital asset which can be used for many purposes. Being a currency or a mode of payment is one of the purposes of Bitcoin. And it had made some headway as a currency during 2012-13, before the bull run occurred. After the first bull run, users started regarding it as more of an investment asset, or as a store of value.

Actually it's just normal if people treated bitcoin as investment, not as currency. Because well, currency is used as a method of payment, meanwhile bitcoin is far from that. It surely can be used to pay for something, but the problem is not many places accept bitcoin. This is what kinda prevent bitcoin to act as a currency. Meanwhile bitcoin value is great, and the price is kinda volatile so it's perfect for people that want to invest, or trade. Because they can buy btc in low price, and sell it in high price. So as long as not many places accept bitcoin, or bitcoin is common enough to be used in our daily activities, and as long as the value is still great, i think people will still consider bitcoin as investment only, not as currency.

That is no unfortunate because it’s their losses if they don’t come to learn bitcoin lol.while we are profiting and has a bright future from bitcoin but for them this isn’t a scam so it’s our benefits of being here and their losses
And one thing is Bitcoin is a currency in virtual form,if you don’t have idea that this currency was being used in Japan as currency and thy can use in any places just like what Yen has

I think it will be better for btc to be a currency than just a store of value, what will now be its use case and how will it be able to have value if there is no use case? the reason why alot of other coins don't have value is because they have no use case, btc is already accepted in some places so it needs to keep spreading for more acceptance.

Well, for me bitcoin is already a currency in my own opinion. Because all of my source in crypto once I sold them in the exchange, automatically it will converted into bitcoin then I can covert it into fiat currency were I can support all the needs I have in my daily routine in life, and pay all of my bills monthly. Therefore it is indeed currency and I know to others they would agree with me for sure.

you should understand that bitcoin doesn't really care if it treated as a currency or asset or as a store of value etc.
it is a protocol and is based on certain principles that can or can not be used in certain circumstances
BAKKT is just the first ( allegedly ) to try and take advantage of bitcoin's versatility in this regard
if bitcoin won't be a currency , it won't lose its sleep , neither would I , call it whatever you want , just use appropriately
for it to be used as a currency , more than it is used today , since we see some usage of it - many businesses are accepting payments in bitcoins
it has to be way faster transactionwise and way more widespread around the globe , the more businesses accept it , the more of a currency it becomes
as if there is any grade , like: currency , not a currency yet an so on

I think that is question for regulators but also how users itself see Bitcoin. To my opinion for Bitcoin users it's more or less irrelevant if it's defined as a currency or not. I often use it as a payment method so as a currency because that suits me. And probably is the same for many other Bitcoin users.
From the point of regulation it might represent a difference in sense how it will be introduced in financial and economic system if that ever happens.

Only the government and banks treat bitcoin as not a currency because they know its a big deal if they continue to support it. There’s always a different side opinion, and for me bitcoin is a legal currency and I’m willing to accept cryptocurrency as a receiver, i do respect the technology of bitcoin because it deserve to be the top coin.

BTC is already a currency but only accepted worldwide,the proof is indeed that how many countries now are using this as legal tender and not just a virtual money.
We can foresee the future of bitcoin as the worldwide currency that’s available at any time and any cost

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It’s not bitcoin who will do anything but us,because we are the user and we are the one who’s responsible of everything that bitcoin may be in future.so just do our part and bitcoin will do the rest

Its a store of value, a settlement layer to pay for things that a person could use as a currency

With 2nd layers and side chains rolling out over the next decade people will just use Lightning Network or Liquid for payments in future.

Different trade offs for many different payment options that work with Bitcoin, some with stablecoins, some with other solutions.

Some will be completely anonymous, some will require ID. It will be amazing in a few years though.

Satoshi invented bitcoin for the sake of freedom from the government controlling your own money.

Just leave the currency thing to the government thus, i don't like bitcoin to be called as a currency in the future it doesn't fit on its name.

Bitcoin should remain as a store of value and as a payment for any services that accepts bitcoin.

I don't think Bitcoin can be or need to be a currency for transaction. With limited supply, it's settling into being a Store of Value. It's very good at that. I think the space needs an inflating chain that mirrors bitcoin. Money comes in contradictory duality: inflationary and deflationary. I'm currently experimenting with an inflationary chain, Bitflate. https://bitflate.org

The future I see is that people will save their money in Bitcoin SoV. Its value can fluctuate a lot. For transactions, we'd use an inflationary alternative. Why do we need two tokens/chains? I think human brain cannot comprehend two processes (saving vs. spending) together.

It needs to be a currency in order to be a good investment,It can be both a means of saving money.bitcoin may be in future and it will be amazing in a few years though.

It is remain as investment in the future.But it is also a currency like mode of payment in internet transactions.Paying bills,travels and online games this is i think bitcoin will serves as a currency.And bitcoin serves as investment thru holding in thr future.

The most common reason of why i favor Bitcoin to be a currency is that we will have another a convenient option to be use on our direct spending. Our way of living as Crypto users will be more hassle-free if Bitcoin has lot of features on it that can be more helpful in our daily lives so Yes Bitcoin really needs to be a currency.

Bitcoin can be both an investment and a currency. Bitcoin is flexible, it just matter on how would people use it. Bitcoin can be an alternative currency, just need to be recognized by more people. But as a main currency? I doubt that since government probably wouldn't agree with it. Bitcoin could work along with the main currency in the future

I think the reason why many people has not really seen much of its payment function is because we still concentrate on the store of value benefit of it, so you find many people who are demanding for btc doing so keep it in their wallet till bitcoin is completely mined with the believe that by that time, bitcoin would have grown very much to yield them enough profit, which by then you will see an increase in its usage because everyone must have accumulated enough of it by then.

We actually have some merchants that are accepting it, I have seen a lot of them around, and I have seen some even out the payment method on their ecommerce website, so it’s with time that merchants will grow, when bitcoin is no longer servicing as store of value that much when the price becomes stable.

It takes more than 100 years till all the bitcoin are mined. that time is too late for bitcoin to become a currency which is used by all people.
I don't think there is any relation between end of mining and increase in use of bitcoin. Mass adoption and increase in use of bitcoin depend on many other factors. The most important one is how governments will treat bitcoin and how they will regulate it. No matter there are still some bitcoin to be mined or not. even if all the coins are mined it has no effect on function of bitcoin. Nothing will change. Bitcoin can be used as a global payment system today if governments allow that.