Bitcoin Forum

Craig Wright loses Kleiman case—billions in Bitcoin awarded to Kleiman estate

Craig Wright lost the Kleiman case. The judge ordered Wright to part with half of his pre-2014 Bitcoin—worth over $5 billion—to the Kleiman estate, alongside considerable intellectual property

https://cryptoslate.com/craig-wright-loses-kleiman-case-billions-bitcoin-awarded/

Laughable.

How the judge is going to implement this order? He has asked Wright to hand over 50% of the coins (BTC490,000) to the family of Dave Kleiman. And the fact remains that neither Wright, nor Kleiman has anything to do with all those coins. Those coins were mined by Satoshi Nakamoto, and he is a different individual who has nothing to do with these two fraudsters.

I don't think that the judge is lunatic enough to ask the Bitcoin miners to do a 51% attack and thereby transfer all these coins to wallets controlled by Wright or Kleiman. (There is no dearth of lunatic judges in the US. Darth Vader Ginsburg is a prime example). That is the only way they could recover those coins, as no one has the private keys to access those wallets. BTW, did anyone checked the exchange rates of scam coin BSV? I am expecting a 90% crash today.  ;D

@bryant.coleman. I reckon that it might be a good time to speculate on doing some short selling on bitcoin SV hehe.

However, what is Craig Wright's real plan in this situation? He knows he was going to lose the case. Is he that foolish?

This is definitely a win for Kleiman... going to be hard to come back from that...

He can pay the USD equivalent via other sources. Civil suit awards aren't always paid upfront (https://litigation.findlaw.com/filing-a-lawsuit/after-a-judgment-collecting-money.html), so he doesn't necessarily need to hand over the BTC as per the exact wording of the ruling. I seriously doubt CSW has $5 billion to his name, so Kleiman's estate could strip him of everything he owns, and hound him endlessly afterwards.


He probably thought he could get away with it lol. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Fingers crossed that's how it unfolds.  Hopefully that would leave Wright far less disposable income for other frivolous lawsuits and make him generally less of a nuisance.  Once they take away his funding, all he has left are his tall tales.

I still disagree with the treatment of Craig Wright, despite him bringing the case (the idea that such a prosecution is even considered by the so-called justice system is the root of the problem, he just tried to take advantage of it)


if the world knows he's a dangerously bizarre scam artist, isn't that punishment enough? I would suggest that here in the information age, it would have been

Does this mean the court also "ruled" that Craig is Satoshi?

Edit:
"That said, the judge did not determine whether Wright was Bitcoin’s creator, Satoshi Nakamoto. Though his behavior in court certainly calls into question his claims to the title."

Y'all forgetting that he had to prove access to the funds earlier in the trial before they proceeded.

He never proved having access to the funds. All he did was provide a list of addresses containing x amount of coins in total, which any noob can do.

Craig is the type of scammer to set up a watch only account in his client and pretend that these coins are his. If people are ignorant enough, they might fall for it, but I doubt that this simple cheat is something the judge has overlooked. If the judge did anyway, then that would prove how incompetent the whole system is.

The funniest part of this case is that crypto youtubers have started talking about a looming $2 billion Bitcoin dump. What a bunch of attention seekers.

I think there's a good chance this lawsuit was organized by Wright himself - he just paid some money to Kleimans so they sue him so that he later can tell everyone how the court has proven that he is Satoshi. This whole case should have started with determining whether the coins exist or not, but no one did that.  Just watch how in near future CWS won't go to jail, won't have to pay any fines or give any money to Kleimans.

I don't agree with you. A few months back, he pulled off a major scam with his shitcoin BSV and was able to accumulate hundreds of millions of USD in funds. First, he filed a few lawsuits against individuals who rejected his claim as the original "Satoshi Nakamoto". This crashed the BSV prices, and many of the exchanges decided to delist the coin from their platforms (the action by exchanges also look questionable now). As per reliable sources, Wright amassed a huge volume of BSV at dirt cheap rates.

Then he stepped in with his second part of the plan. He filed a patent application for BTC and Blockchain, which resulted in BSV prices shooting up by 250%. He sold most of the coins that he accumulated previously at a profit, and in the end became richer by a few hundred million USD. What he did was not exactly illegal as per the regulations. So he can't be jailed although crypto users lost huge amounts of money. But as we say, what goes around comes around. Now he is going to lose all that money that he got by cheating the users earlier. Karma is a bitch, now deal with it.

CSW started this himself. In an interview (https://modernconsensus.com/cryptocurrencies/bitcoin/exclusive-interview-with-craig-wright-just-after-ordered-to-pay-5-billion-in-bitcoin/), he says that KIeiman's estate will have to pay a 40% estate tax for the inheritance, meaning they're going to have to dump around 200k BTC. This is wrong though, because as the article notes in a correction, Florida has already eliminated (https://floridarevenue.com/taxes/taxesfees/Pages/estate_tax.aspx) estate taxes.

Interesting turn of events.  ;D  I expect that Craig Wright would now turn around and say that he lost access to those private keys, because he obviously do not have that kind of money to pay to Kleiman.  ;D  Let's say he has access to that kind of money, then I would spend most of that to appeal the verdict and pay for the best representation to reverse this decision on appeal hearings.  ::)

This is only the start of a long process and Kleiman will most probably not see a fraction of that money in the end.  Craig Wright said he would crash the Bitcoin price, well I guess it is a good time to cash out his millions now, because he is going to need that to pay for all those lawyer fees.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

so, 2 wrongs make 1 right? I disagree with that


what about all the people who never did anything wrong, who have libel cases brought against them, which they lose, either unjustly or corruptly?

meanwhile the people that Wright hoodwinked with BSV (and I'm not even convinced there were that many) will get none of this settlement, while the Kleiman family will get the promise of something (and in the end nothing, as Wright doesn't own significant assets of any kind), and what for? Kleiman sounds like he was lying too, so what sort of justice is that, taking money from a fraudster, and giving it to the family of a deceased fraudster? That makes zero sense, sorry

you're justifying this excessively litigious culture that brought about Wright's come-uppence, yet simultaneously excoriating free trade and capitalism.

Scammers and getting scammed is an unfortunate part of capitalism. If all investments were enforced as 100% safe, there would be none on offer. It's always a risk, and judging the risk vs the potential reward is your responsibility and yours alone. I didn't buy any scammy ICO's, because I invested in the knowledge that led me to deduce that they are mostly scams.

This is the first time this year news coverage of CSW is actually worth reading through. We have been bombarded with so many crap articles that only helped him gain even more sympathy from his delusional supporters.

Nothing will ever be enough for CSW's supporters to distance themselves from him. All this bad publicity is helping him to play the victim card which then yields even more loyal supporters.

This case while CSW technically lost it, hasn't yielded the other parties anything since there isn't anything of significance to pay out. CSW got his much needed dose of publicity, the rest got nothing but hot air. Nice.

You can't call those users who sold BSV at that time period as scammers. After the hard-fork happened, everyone who had previously owned Bitcoin received an equivalent amount of BSV in their wallets. In my case also, I received the coins in my Blockchain.com wallet. I wasn't sure about what to do with those coins. But when Blockchain.com announced that they are ending support for BSV, I had no choice other than selling those coins at whatever prices I could manage.

i didn't



i was referring to you saying this about Wright


what has that got to do with you wanting Wright to be punished for anything, whether it's just or not, and whether or not people he deceived are compensated for their loss? It's "nothing", isn't it?

Australian who says he invented bitcoin ordered to hand over up to $5bn

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/28/australian-who-says-he-invented-bitcoin-ordered-to-hand-over-up-to-5bn (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/28/australian-who-says-he-invented-bitcoin-ordered-to-hand-over-up-to-5bn)

<< US court orders Craig Wright to share cryptocurrency haul with the estate of American programmer David Kleiman. >>

All I am saying is that Wright needs to be punished. I don't care on which charges he is being punished. I agree with you, when you say that those who lost their money in the BSV scam many not receive any compensation from this judgement. And even worse, the amount is likely to go to the family of another scammer, Dave Kleiman.

My points are the following:

1. Wright tried to fool people by claiming that he is Satoshi
2. He made profits from BSV scam by triggering a pump-and-dump cycle
3. He harassed those who questioned his claim to be Satoshi, by filing lawsuits against them
4. In general, he tried to ruin the reputation of Bitcoin
5. He tried to steal someone else's invention, by filing a patent suite

I am saying that he needs to be punished for the above points. However, there are legal loopholes out there which protect Wright against these charges.

This article sounds like exactly something that Wright would want to be published - the main takeaway an average non-bitcoiner joe (and even some bitcoiners) is that Wright has 10 billions because he and Kleiman invented Bitcoin. Words like "allegedly" and "supposedly" will be ignored, because that's what people always do when they read news. I don't understand the US justice system, why no one bothered to first establish whether those coins exist or not, how many coins there are, where is the trust they are supposedly held by and so on. Everything is so fishy about this case.

I've repeatedly mentioned this, you can be pretty sure that they verified the existence and ownership of the funds before proceeding to court, there wouldn't even be a case otherwise. As much as the justice system is in error, we easily glance over the fact that 99.9% of all cases just gets handled properly, there are many checks and safeguards in place and many people involved that check and double check everything.

The most surprising thing about the news is that the BSV prices have remained stable. I would have expected them to crash by at least 50%, after the judgement was pronounced. The last time I checked, the exchange rates showed hardly any change against BTC. That could mean that the market is not taking this news seriously. Either the traders are not aware of it, or they don't think that this order can be implemented.

Relaying as an impartial messenger:

Not all news related to its owner or founder would give out significant effect into its own shitcoins price and this is an example of it.

CW loses the case but how he would pay up those billions in bitcoin if he doesnt even have the access on it? Paying up by his own wallet?
What a wrecking situation for him.Does he learn something on not to mess up on proclaiming an entity? :D

I reckon he'd just try to get the case reopened through some other sources and claim that his old claims were not truth and he's a Faketoshi and not the real Satoshi. Else, he's got the only option to save himself from this unnecessary dilemma, just go ask Kleimann if he lets him $u*k his [)!<k and CG succeeds in satisfying those guys. I don't think a person who is Satoshi (which CG isn't) is idiot enough to open a case against anybody. Satoshi is of calm mind, he's waited more than a decade and still waiting while seeing the drama going on over his name and claims that these fake personalities are making.

I'm extremely happy for whatever this guy is facing, you deserve an extremely hard fuck in your nose, shithead CG.

I tend to agree, but the focus should also extend to Calvin Ayre, a billionaire with the funds to initiate these massive pumps and dumps and at the same time attack other networks.

A lot of the financial backing comes from Calvin, which people tend to ignore because they think Craig himself is a billionaire, which he clearly isn't. Craig is Calvin's muppet and he knows exactly how to make him say and do things.

And then we can also look at the rest of the nChain squad that are providing him the necessary means to scam people. Roger Ver for a while provided support to Craig as well. Scammers paradise.

Nothing really happend here: The default 'order' from the Magistrate to the judge is very usual  a 50:50 in a civil case, where they have no clue who is right ...

 ::)

Just want to say, I totally called it:

so you're saying "a liar lied again"

that was an incredible prediction, any gambling tips?

Well, yeah, it wasn't a huge leap.  But are most liars brazen and/or stupid enough to do it in a court of law, though?  I figured he was.  And he didn't let me down in my estimations of him.

This is so fake news.
The judge cannot order Wright to send Bitcoins to another person.
And also how is he going to see that his order has been executed?
I don't like Craig Wright but I think that the media has started to spreading fake news in order to get more views, as Craig Wright is always a noticeable topic for them.

yeah, wright sure knows how to provide people with signed messages from the blockchain :D


who wants to bet the next court case will be wright vs kleiman 2020, "where's the 550,000 BTC tx, craig" vs "why here it is, and here is the script that proves it was signed using this public key..."


couldn't he just do this forever? I've changed my mind about this case; I hope wright keeps up the shenanigans, keeps suing/getting sued and bankrupts the DOJ in the process

The judge ruled in favor of the plaintiff. It's 50:50 because that's what the plaintiff asked for.
They have "no clue who is right" because Craig made it impossible for the judge to carry out an impartial trial. Due to his constant lies, forgeries and frauds, the judge nuked Wright's defense, ruling in favor of the plaintiff.

"Very usual" indeed.  ::)

frankly, Faketoshi has been the biggest source of income for bitcoin-related news channels and has been the biggest joke to the crypto world. he only loses to Tom Lee, John McAfee and Bilal Khalid ( Pakistani Man ) (https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2019/pakistani-man-claims-to-be-real-bitcoin-creator.html)

In the last 3 days, faketoshi has been catching the attention of the news channels:

Craig Wright Challenges Court Order Requiring Him to Pay 500K Bitcoin (https://cointelegraph.com/news/craig-wright-challenges-court-order-requiring-him-to-pay-500k-bitcoin)


Kleiman Files — Craig Wright Controversy Gets Complicated (https://cointelegraph.com/news/kleiman-files-craig-wright-controversy-gets-complicated)

Calvin Ayre Falsely Claims Court Ruled Craig Wright Invented Bitcoin (https://cointelegraph.com/news/calvin-ayre-falsely-claims-court-ruled-craig-wright-invented-bitcoin)

I have a question, if faketoshi has no control over bitcoins, how can the judge condemn him? Who can prove that faketoshi has control of the bitcoins?

In my opinion, it's time for Craig Wright to give up claims in the name of Satoshi Nakamoto. He went too far and drove himself into a corner. He probably does not have access to Satoshi Nakamoto's bitcoins. The amount that he was obliged to pay is unbearable for the average person. However, it is interesting what he will do next. With any scenario, Craig Wright loses.

The most possible scenario is that Craig Wright would file an appeal against this decision in the higher courts. He can also argue that the American courts don't have jurisdiction over this. A third option is to declare bankruptcy.  ;D

But I don't think that he'll ever give up claims of being Satoshi Nakamoto. Because it gives him a claim on BTC980,000. At current rates, they are worth more than $10 billion. And god knows how much they'll be worth in the future.

No one can prove having control over the funds until the actual owner of these funds pops up someday, which isn't likely. This scammer uses a wallet client that can sign fake messages and whatnot from an address he desires. It's pretty much the same concept as the fake bank apps where a lot of people have been scammed with thinking that money has been wired, while in reality nothing has been wired at all because it's a fake app.

He used that to convince a BBC reporter in 2016 that he is Satoshi by supposedly signing a message from the address that is known to be the first ever transaction; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DCAC1j2HTY

I don't think that he'll ever give up the claim of being Satoshi Nakamoto. Why should he? If somehow he could create doubt in the minds of users, there will be a small minority who is ready to believe that he is the real Satoshi. This "small minority" may number around 10% of the Bitcoin users right now (my wild guess). And this corresponds to approx. 20 million users.

As Bitcoin grows in popularity, the number of users will increase from the current level of ~200 million. Within a few years we'll be having billions of users. And if Craig Wright is able to control at least 10% of them, it will give him an enormous amount of power. The only way to end this sham is to reveal the real identity of Satoshi Nakamoto.

You're giving Craig far too much credit here. Most of the "support" that BSV enjoys consists of bots, and then there on a much smaller scale are some imbeciles of human beings too weak minded to figure out that he is a scam. BSV army is very similar to XRP where the wealthy backers finance this fake sense of reality.

False. The only way to end this nonsense is to stop caring about it. Craig loves this drama. Bad news is good news for him. You taking him so serious is a problem on its own too. It means that his tactics are working.  ::)

We have people who believe that the earth is flat. And there are tens of millions (or even hundreds of millions) who don't believe in the theory of evolution. When we have such low IQ people in this planet, it is not very surprising for me to find sizable number of individuals who would believe that the criminal Craig Wright is the real Satoshi Nakamoto.  

Criminal or no criminal, the man has gotten into some hot soup here.
How is he going to cough out all that money?
He'll soon go bankrupt to say the least.

He probably can still go to higher instances and argue the case again or can't he? If he can't he'll try to buy time. He'll get sick and hire lawyers to help him find new excuises.
Usually cases like his take a lot longer. He'll never shut up that's for sure. He lost the battle but in his mind the war is still going on.

Do you really expect this wicked individual to pay any money at all? The first option for him is to go for appeal in the higher courts. That will give him precious amount of time, to commit more fraud and squeeze out money from the unsuspecting investor. Another option is to flee to some country which doesn't have an extradition treaty with the United States. As John McAfee found out, this is not a very wise move. Declaring bankruptcy is the third option, although I don't think that CSW is ready for that yet.

Among on the 3 options you had stated,i would go for option 2 even though it isn't wise but he wont have any choice unless if he do able to crack satoshis wallet. hehe

1000% agree on what you had said which no matter how many or majority would think up the same there would always be those dumb persons who do believe in him.

That guy really deserved what happened to him haha. After this decision, I found a meme showing Faketoshi's picture with a caption the he is the true creator of Facebook and Libra. But seriously, Craig Wright should be prisoned so his minions won't let his token still grow and shown in the cmc and attract more dumb investors to buy it.

It is a deadly combination of lack of information and lack of intelligence. Bitcoin is a relatively new asset, as it is just 10 years old. So naturally we can't expect a lot of people to have a good amount of knowledge about it. And provided the huge amount of propaganda available in the social media which favors Craig Wright, I am not surprised on seeing so many people supporting him.