Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

everyday we hear of new companies adopting bitcoin.

But in my opinion they are not really adopting bitcoin but accepting payment through bitcoin which inmediately is exchanged into fiat money.

There should be a symbol for real adopters of bitcoin to show so we know they are not using bitpay (or similar) and are keeping the bitcoins and making business with them.

What I mean is that bitcoin should really be adopted and not pretend they are adopting it when it is not really the case.

What do you think?

Looks like we're on the same page. I also agree we need companies that take Bitcoin without a payment processor.

"I HODL BTC!"  Something like that? 

What would be the underlying reason to hold onto it?  So that when it becomes 1000X its value, you THEN spend it?  Asking for constructive criticism purposes.

Why is this a bad thing? Businesses that accept BTC are going to need to convert BTC to fiat at some point - unless they're fortunate enough to be able to pay all their costs in BTC. They can either do that through bitpay or they can sell their BTC directly on an exchange, OTC, whatever. But at some point they will need to sell BTC to pay utility bills, local and national taxes, etc - perhaps even their merchandise.


I think adopting BTC is exactly what these businesses are doing, and we should support them. I'll worry about them still using fiat when it becomes possible for businesses to function solely using non-fiat.

The reason is that fiat money is being manipulated and its value going south and basically it's a tool of the enemies of humand kind: the banks (central and commercial ones).

Having one's money in the bank gives power to the criminals.

This has nothing to do with operating a business.

Almost all businesses have to pay their suppliers and employees with fiat. They simply can't hold the BTC they receive as payments, except perhaps for the small part that constitutes their profit. So for now, the use of payment processors that convert BTC to fiat is perfectly logical for companies wanting to accept Bitcoin-payments.

I agree that in an ideal case, a company should be able to do all of its business in BTC and not have to convert to fiat, but the ideal case and reality are miles apart for now.

Any business operating without big margins can't afford to risk losing out to the volatility of bitcoin, and even if they could, odds are their suppliers dont accept BTC and want paying in fiat.

Until bitcoin is trusted not to move 50% in a day, and until their suppliers will accept payment in BTC, companies will be converting to fiat quickly.

Just the fact that they accept the currency is a great start!. The rest will come with maturity of BTC.

What you guys need is to get programmers who will make open source plugins and the like that work really well and are relatively user friendly to set up if you want stores to become more independent of payment processors, all you need are some PHP processors with the will to do this and I'm sure people would be happy to get things up and running.

Doesn't the blockchain API allow developers to process BTC payments?
And it's free to use ;)

well if companies choose to accept bitcoins and convert into fiat, it's just stupid

How so? Should they instead accumulate a hoard of BTC while running up fiat debts? How will they purchase their merchandise? Pay their employees' salaries? Pay taxes? Pay bills?

We accept BTC directly, without a payment processor - http://re.2et.in

Why?  Bitcoin needs more acceptance regardless of how that comes about.  Pedaling tinfoil hats like you and too many other newbies is what's stupid.

www.cryptosextoys.com is the only sex toys site to take crypto only, no payment processors and not just BTC, I like to think we are showing big business how to do crypto right, it just takes an understanding of the market and not to crap your pants when the price moves against you.  We store 100% of profit in BTC and use it to pay for advertising, hosting and anything else we need.

Cant pay the supplier just yet, but it is only a matter of time till BTC can be used across the entire supply chain.

http://www.yrm.org/koshersymbols.htm

Adapt for B

Probably already done and obvious,

But have you asked your supplier if they will accept BTC ?

Perhaps something like this?

https://i.imgur.com/iyHNXOE.png (also in high resolution (https://i.imgur.com/3Vzi297.png))

I don't understand this argument.  Are we asking them to adopt bitcoin as a currency and method of payment, or as an investment?  Receiving BTC and holding it sounds more like the latter and I don't see why that is necessary to be considered adoption by businesses.

Businesses accept Visa/MC/Amex because of how widely they are used and the relative convenience for their customers, but at the expense of fees they wouldn't have to pay on a fiat transaction.  Fewer companies accept Amex than the other options because the fees are higher and it takes longer to actually get their money.

Businesses that accept bitcoin should pay a lower % in fees and get their funds faster, much faster in Amex's case.  I'm not sure why anyone should care what they do with those funds once they are received?  Hasn't bitcoin has served its primary purpose to that business at that point?

In my mind, BitPay has always been a transitional entity. It's core purpose, as far as Bitcoin is concerned, is to introduce merchants to the benefits of this new paradigm while allowing them to remain in their comfort zone. Eventually, once the volatility of the market subsides, merchants will realize that they can save even more money by accepting bitcoins directly instead of paying someone else to process them. By this time, there will hopefully be more opportunities to pay some of their overhead (rent, utilities, employees, etc) with BTC, as well.

At the Texas Bitcoin Conference, Tony Gallippi even confirmed that some of their customers start off immediately converting 100% of their BTC income to fiat but then gradually begin keeping a growing percentage as bitcoins.

...and what is your recourse when some biz that does not hodl bitcoin uses your vaunted symbol?

Nothing, that's what your recourse is.

Sure, you could have some entity trademark the symbol, which would allow you to 'protect the integrity' of symbol.

But then you're back to centralization. Who's going to do that job? The Bitcoin Foundation? I vote no (for all the good my vote will accomplish).

And as a practical matter, I think your goal is essentially impossible in today's commercial environment. It sounds as if you have never run a business yourself. As others have already pointed out, how are you going to cover the cost of goods sold? Until enough of your inputs can be paid in bitcoin, your business is dead in the water.

Sure, I believe that this will be possible some day. But currently?

That's an interesting idea. It makes it a little more transparent and better overall.

Just because they accept bitpay doesn't mean the cash it out. I use a similar service ( BIPS ) and do not instantly cash out to fiat on my store... Patrick Byrne is on record saying Overstock will keep 10% from now on... just because a company uses bitpay or BIPS doesn't mean they are instantly cashing out...

For big companies they have to cash out to fiat (at least mostly) they have to pay salaries, pay suppliers, make estimated tax payments, pay utilities and carriers...