Bitcoin Forum

Most folks do believe that the market is been controlled by whales while some don't. some believed that nobody controlled the market.
My question is simple. just like newbies and novices got rekt and burnt in the market, DO Whales got burnt, Rekt or funds got  liquidate in this crypto market.?
i think Nobody controls this market.

Probably? No one has 100% total control over the markets, and whales can only affect the prices to a certain extent. We can safely assume that whales are also traders to a certain degree, hence it wouldn't be far-fetched to think that they've also made certain decisions in the past that caused them to lose money. May it be in terms of USD or BTC.

I can't find the exact news article anymore, in fact several of them, but I have seen a lot of millionaires who lose money in the market just because they entered the wrong trade. Some of them even have a point to liquidate at the top but they still decided to hodl during the 2017 bull run now they got caught up with a 18 month bear market. Whales might have the upper hand on influencing the market but they still are not safe from the volatility or sudden shifts happening to the market, it's not like whales have their own team on when they will decide to change the tide in the market.

Absolutely, they do. I've seen Bitmex traders get liquidated on $100 million positions. No matter how much capital a whale has, he can't just force the market to his whims.

The whales who try to fight the market and push it where it doesn't want to go don't stay whales for long. Those whales get harpooned.

Everybody eventually loses. Nobody's ever 100% accurate in trading, and as extasie mentioned, there's often liquidations of positions of $10 Million on Bitmex whenever large moves happen in one direction or other, though ideally you set stops before liquidation to save on fees. AFAIK the risk limits limit the amount of amount of contracts you can have on one contract on one account at a time to 10 million contracts, though people likely make multiple accounts to circumvent this (and people do this for hedging purposes as well).

Got rekt? Yeah, Maybe? Because whales are still traders, they got loss or gain profit.

As for this moves buying or selling, they could trigger a short period of hype and its opposite, so by saying controlled, no, no one can control the actual price. Its all speculations and nothing to worry if they sold there coins.

Anyone can make losses in the market. So yeah, whales can get burnt. As a trader, you'd notice that price fluctuations could be losses if they are not wedged against. I've met a few whales that traded a popular token get burnt for refusing to sell at the right time.

All traders are affected by fluctuations and volatility. Whales don't have the magic to avoid it.

Controlling the market is not the usual they will buy or sell then everyone will do it too, it's not how controlling the market means. They will attempt to do something big then they will see if the community will react. If majority follows, then good to them. If not, then the attempt to do something on that coin is failed. However here in BTC that was difficult to do now because of the reason we already know. But in other small altcoins, manipulations really happen.

Whales aren't that different from small fishes like you and me, because having much more money doesn't necessarily mean that they know more or have better trading strategies.

A lot of whale money has gone to waste trying to support the price during the 2018 bear market. I'm sure that the wales were just as afraid seeing the price hit $3000 as most of the people on this forum were.

It's nearly impossible to prevent old hands from crashing the price down, especially with how MtGox has been a huge seller. The positive side effect of these sales are that coins get redistributed fairer. :)

Absolutely, no one is really safe here, even whales got REKT specially in 2018. Remember they have big capital so they can lose big as well.

I guess we have the misconception that whales can manipulate the market in whatever form they want. It is not true and they can also be a victim of manipulation itself because no one can really control a market that is so volatile and at the same time so big such as bitcoin market.

100%, not all whales are really successful in investing and in trading.
When we say whales, they are those who have big money risk in crypto, and they can sure move the market, however, they don't make a uniform decision, so some whales makes money while some whales also loss money.

People kinda believe that whales are those who are real successful here, but they can't generalize that because they are normal investors also, they have a profitable and a losing journey like us.

Correct. Whales have their own battles too. There are some whales that group themselves in order to move in uniform way but there is still no 100% guarantee of success. In forex big banks are the ones playing the market. There was a case before where the US government imposed heavy penalties on some big international banks for their connivance in playing the market. This is probably the same case with margin trade on crypto currencies.

Perfect example of how whales rekt themselves is to look at all the institutional crypto funds that were set up during 2017/2018 and failed hard. They had balances of $100 million and upwards to invest but lost the majority of it, which left their clients regret ever getting involved in this crypto hype. A fool with a lot of money is still a fool at the end of the day.

People always talk about whales as if they are collectively trying to manipulate the market, but they are trading against other whales just as hard as we trade against people with a similar balance to us. Whales rekt other whales, and then the masses who panic sell or buy rekt even more whales. Not even the largest whales come out unharmed. This market is brutal af, even more so if you are into leverage trading.

Yes they can.
One could be drunk trading or he is just one heck of an idiot.
The answer is already in your statement.
If you have the power to manipulate the trend then what the heck are you going to lose for?

There is just no reason for that to happen or it could be if another whale richer than you wants to dominate.

Whales are not members of trade unions. They work alone. I assume that they can coordinate their activities for a while. But they will not miss the opportunity to eat their rival. In the market, all players play against everyone. The market is so arranged. Whales are more like sharks.

Even when a whale loses money in a trade, he'll get it back just by the large volume he owns.

Extent of market impact depends on the size of the whale.

I think yes sometime, but most of time i think whales will know when to take profit. If issue that whales control market is right, i think they who dump the coins and who get rekt and burn in market is people who panic and make wrong decision in trading. That is why although we are novice or newbie, we should control our emotion first in trading. The most important thing.

Why not? Of course, whales do get their fingers burnt from time to time. No one knows it all and I am sure some whales might have sold to reenter the market cheap but didn't get that opportunity. Some may be bagholding certain altcoins that also have turned shitty and that is cash gone down the drains. This happens to the rest of us even when we buy small. No one truly can tell the future. We can only speculate and most times we don't get it right.

Of course they do

but I think those whales who understand the market and know how to manipulate the market

usually get away with it because they can read between the lines and  signals available to them that tells them when to buy and sell coins.

Absolutely yes. Remember that no one is an island and whales can be affected in the market likewise the unwhales. Sometimes, their intent to control the market price always if not sometimes affects them against their wish and will thereby hut them inreturn. I have seen on Twitter where some of them also cried because of market manipulation, so, no one is exhibited.

I don't think that whales can control all of the markets. If they did that, they would need a lot of funds to enter every market and try to control. Besides that, they can control in some period, but still, the market will not be easy to control, especially if there are a big demand and supply that happens in the market. They will lose their power, and they will let the market runs by the trend, but they still watch the market so they could also follow the market.

But all in all, I think no one can control the market, especially if the market is on these situations. I believe the whales now have been prepare for the next thing that might happen so they can get back to make the profit. But the whales will be the people who can make a lot of money from the market because they know how to use the situations even if the market is on unstable movements.

Whales do not get burnt the way you and I get burnt. These are not people who only have crypto and nothing else, they do have other investments and some in cash so when the price of bitcoin goes down they are still not poor, they are still super rich.

There are people out there who have like 2000 dollars saved aside and when bitcoin went to 3000 dollars their 2000 dollars became 300 dollars and that is not something they can live with, it hurt their savings a lot and now its back to 1000 dollars which is not really that much better for those people. Hence, I think the regular people versus whales, the whales did not really got that much burnt. Its still bad for them as well of course but not as much as it affected the rest of us so they are still fine.

Definitely!

They arent exempted when it comes to loss even though they had that advantage among others when it comes to financial capacity but doesnt mean
that they wont able to have a loss on the market because anytime it can make a u-turn basing on what they are trying to manipulate.Market is
really very unpredictable even whales will really be caught up on such volatility.

You've said it all,  there is no way that whales too won't get burnt in the market, no one controls the market solely, 

Although lots of whales manipulate the price of coins in the market,  but not to the extent that they can't get burnt,  the pace at which they recover their loss is quite different from someone who is not a whale,  they get burnt hugely and they recover immensely

Assumptions, assumptions. Check out this guy's story: Bitcoin Trader Commits Suicide after Losing 2,000 BTC (https://www.ccn.com/bitcoin-margin-100x-leverage-trader-suicide/)

I think the OP was more asking whether whales lose trades and get their positions rekt like retail traders. And the answer is, absolutely. Whales aren't some sort of protected class; they get liquidated with the rest of us. Especially those whales who try to defend huge leveraged positions. Per the theory of maximum pain, (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/maxpain.asp) the market seems to love punishing traders like that.

The big whales is not the sole owner of the market in which they sometime lose huge too. They may influence the market movement sometimes but they could not totally control it like for an instance that they try to pump up a certain coin but only few people did invest due to the product is not feasible so expect a losing investment on the whales side.

Bitcoin whales are able to have a huge impact on the BTC market, but as practice shows, their influence extends to the altcoin market. Today, watching whales has become much more difficult due to the increase in the number of over-the-counter brokers who process great volumes of crypto transactions. Thus, large cryptocurrency owners can still influence the value of your portfolio, while maintaining anonymity.

It will often occur that whales get burnt too. If a whale is selling and large number are buying too, it could lead to clash of interest. The market is neither here nor there.

Whales also make a mistake, so obviously they get burn also.
They are traders although they have a big amount of capital but they aren't perfect that they will make good decision all the time.

The fact that the market is so unpredictable, there is no way a person even a whale will make easy money.
As whales, they have the power to move this market due to their big holdings, but it's not guaranteed that if they move, they could benefit in the end.

I think someone controls the market. There are quite a few organizations that hold a lot of bitcoins to start selling off or pump coins shortly to entice new traders and investors.
but sometimes their strategy is not successful, because there are many different organizations. There will be organizations that will win and there will be organizations that lose, so the market is highly volatile because their strategy does not follow what they think.

Well of course whale also burnt on market. Having much capital does not mean being able to control and be most resilient in market. The crypto market has many whales, so these whales also compete to dominate market and sometimes they will go to war or go with flow to support. But when they lose to other whales, they will be burnt by what they started.

Everyone, gets burnt as some point in this industry as you can't be too careful or too smart enough to outsmart the market at every given opportunity. The whales among us also make some poor decision too as they're not gods, they're humans like you and me. I remembered a whale trying to create FUD by placing a very large amount of sell order on mercatox exchange getting burnt after he/she successfully sold his token and brought down the price of the token.

He sold the token for ETH while minutes later ethereum drop drastically across all exchange. This happened during the recent ethereum massive price drop. The token he sold appreciated via ethereum value although dropped few fractions in USD but when comparing the USD worth of the Ethereum he owned after selling the tokens to that of, if he still had the tokens, he got burnt as the eth value decrease massively.

If you think some organisation is control the market. All are controlling the illuminati it was secret society, But reality top countries restriction will affect the entire market, Because fear is direct enemy on crypto market. So market will fluctuate all the time and big dump and pump is possible on few times. This year we are all see some positive response on crypto market so organizations was supported in upcoming hype.

Most whales are usually into long term trading and  not day trading, so there is no risk of leveraging for their money to be lost and if the price of bitcoin goes below what they have bought, they have all the money externally to use and wait patiently for the price to bounce back, so I would not say that whales get burnt.

Before any whale will strike, they plan their works very well and make sure that they are smart about it, they usually create panic sell before they buy and then pump a little for fomo, they only get delayed when they pump and no body react to the market, then they have to wait for long until there is another pumping for them to get the profit, but I din think they will lose any money because no whale will buy at peak price.

There are stupid and intelligent whales, so probably there are whales who are losers investing in the market.
Actually, I don't like their presence here because thy are abusing their power, the fact that they own a huge volume of coins, that gives them the power to move the market, and this market would not be stable if they can still do their thing.

We need a massive adoption so their power will be minimize, it doesn't if they are playing their game as long as they will not move the market that will only cause panic to newbie investors. When the market is so volatile, this is not attractive to typical investors because they are afraid of taking a high risk investment, so we need to minimize to let them see the potential of the future.

Since cryptocurrencies price just based on supply and demand then I believe there is no one who can be able to set the price movement. The increasing price or decreasing price will depend on the user itself, yeah actually the huge amount of money can give a different change at the price movement but there will be many user who will follow the price action so as it is not affected by the whales action except for the all user. Regardless of the whales get burn or not in the market it is really possible. Because they will have a huge target to gain profit whilst the target of the user will be different each other and it could be they will sell their coin and make the price goes down so as the whales late to sell and just focus on the target but the price just goes down in end up.

Yes they do, the market is still very volatile and even whales will have moments that they will lose and they can lose big if they do not be very careful about how and when to exit, whales also study the market, not because they have been holding a lot they will just ignore how to study the market.

Not only whales on Bitcoin but also whales from other top coins in the market, being whales does not mean you are safe, one or two bad move you will get busted.

It is a little bit hard to understand what you are trying to say. But, let me try. Correct me if I am wrong, all you are trying to say is that do whales also make loss like a normal person or a trader does?
If that is the question, then the answer is yes. Even whales have a high chance of making loss. The whales do take risks like us. When a market change is taking place, another whale might take advantage of it and this might put some whales in a dangerous position if they don't act properly. For example, if a whale is manipulating the market buy causing a huge dip in the market, another whale might take advantage of it and buy coins cheap before the original whale gets to buy back his coins in cheaper price.

I don't believe that anyone controls this market. The whales can only manipulate the price in a way and when they invest a huge amount of money the price will go up and when they withdraw such big amounts it will cause the price to fall. Anyone can get rekt in crypto market, it happens to everyone no matter who you are.

If newbies or those without much money plays their game well they wouldn't experience that. The same thing with whales, some of them will just invest huge amount to pump the price and when the market gets high they will quickly sell their assets and withdraw the money and profit ,causing the market to drop on those that didn't sell out on time.

They lose, yes that's true, but they hardly lose. You have forgot that these whales works with the best professionals there is. They wouldn't be the ones running the trading, they will always hire a professional that will do the trade while their own part in the job is just to be pumping the money that will be used for the trading.