Bitcoin Forum

Five privacy coins including monero, dash, zcash, horizen and super bitcoin are to be delisted from the exchange. Apparently the Korean government has asked crypto exchanges to implement the FATF guidelines which include the travel rule.

It will be interesting to see if exchanges choose to implement TRISA which is CipherTrace's solution to the FATF policy rather than delisting them.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

https://tokenpost.com/Crypto-exchange-OKEx-Korea-to-remove-all-privacy-coins-including-monero-dash-zcash-over-FATFs-travel-rule-3443

Thoughts are simple. OKEx Korea know everyone on their exchange, since they KYCed themself. So they know who deposited every coin on the exchange as who withdraw coins from that exchange. That is what FATF policy is all about. In FATF policy there is no reason for delisting any coin. There are just reasons for them to focus more in KYCing their customers.

I would be interested to see if instead of delisting coins they choose to implement TRISA framework

It seems true but why okex has said like this

https://www.coindesk.com/okex-korea-drops-5-privacy-coins-citing-fatf-rules

But this will be only implemented in the okex's Korea based exchange but another platform still remains the same to allow the trade for these privacy coins.

I just came across the TRISA news myself. Its very interesting.

CipherTrace unveils open source solution for crypto Travel Rule compliance ‘TRISA’
https://tokenpost.com/CipherTrace-unveils-open-source-solution-for-crypto-Travel-Rule-compliance-TRISA-3369


Note : VASP's are Virtual Asset Service Providers (crypto exchanges / custodial wallet providers)

only OKEX applies it, although it is likely to be followed by other Korean exchanges, but that is not too worrying because I am sure there are still many exchanges that will not implement it. So I see it's not a big problem for the privacy coin community

This means that it is not a big problem for us to just exchange Korea, which is the center there to follow the government rules, although some probation coins removed from our OKEX are the best conclusions from OKEX.

Not only OkEx, CEX.io and also Coinbase does it.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/39724/okex-korea-delisting-all-privacy-coins-including-monero-zcash-and-dash-as-these-violate-fatfs-travel-rule
CEX.io and Coinbase operated in U.K so I think there is a possibility followed by another exchange, not only operated in Korea.

Exchange will adapt to new regulations, and will soon evolution without breaking existing regulations.

The qoute was simply said that "OKEX Korea" just Korean OKEx "not all the entire OKEX exchange globally will delist all of the privacy coins" It seems that Korean Government was only emplemented the law "FATF" which is to regulate and have an eye of those people or group trading on Korean jurisdiction.

Well, I didn't know that they could force a major exchange to delists coins from their platform? Good thing is that only the Korean version of the exchange will go through those changes.

i dont think that is enough reason to delist thse coin eve if they are privacy coin , people actually need privacy in life and giving that life through the crypto doesnt mean its bad idea , we all know all wallet in crypto cant be trace back to owner expect if it is in exchange which is must more possible to get.

Did they made a study on the advantages and disadvantages od delisting this privacy coins in the market, what do they want to accomplish besides being compliant, big exchanges are not doing this, and they are ok with these privacy coins in their exchange, it seems it's an independent move by one exchange.

I hope such delisting of privacy coins from OKEx would only be temporary and all matters pertaining to FATF guidelines should be

resolved accordingly. I think the crypto-community would be alarmed if these actions by OKEx would become a precedent of

what will other exchanges would do once obliged by that regulation and would be a blow to the essence of cryptocurrency

particularly  with these noted privacy coins.

If you read news that mentioned above than you know this is not about advantage and disadvantage, volume trading or anything else, this is about regulations that exchange have to do it.

Maybe the exchange had to do it because of the regulations. Though personally, I don't like these regional exchanges under a popular brand name. As all trader verified their profile on oKex Korea exchange so all of their data already under government, then why they are delisting these privacy coins?

It depends on the rules in each country. It is possible that private altcoins violated the regulations in Korea so Okex Korea must delete the list of altcoins.

Are we 100% certain that Korea has implemented regulations? Would be interested to know which countries (if any) have put crypto regulations into place. I can see Korea or China being one of the first to do so

Why should we even care at this point? It's funny how everyone is panicking when centralized exchanges choose to do whatever they do. It's incredible how much power these exchanges have.

I can't for all the upcoming DEX solutions to be fully up and running, so I can move all my trading off of these centralized shit exchanges.

Personally looking forward to Stakenet's Lightning DEX, which will offer instant trading over lightning, with virtually no fees at all.
Not only that, but you wont even need to register, submit KYC data, or sync up with the network, since the DEX will be running on masternodes. One of the most promising DEX's out there, that's for sure.

For those who have invested in privacy coins, this is no surprise. Goverments and regulators do not like privacy coins, they will fight with them. But with the emergence of more quality decentralized exchanges such regulations will not have to bother us.  8)

I dont understand what is unclear? There is nothing in FATF policy that prevent them to have Monero listed. Nothing. FATF policy demand they know who they sell coins or get coins from. If they do KYC then they do know. Why they posted that is mystery to me. I have no ideas. They should tell the truth what is teh reason.  

My speculation is that since tehre was a lot of hacks in South Korea. A lot exchanges lost founds in last years and since they cant trace those taht was witdhrawn in Monero they did this. Instead to raise security to prevent hacks or internal stealings they pulled most simple thing that will not solve anything on the long term. It will only escalate problems since transparent ledger coins are easier targets then coins that have opaque ledger and hackers dont even know who holds them.

This is not the first issue, because no government will adopt crypto currencies as long as there are coins like Monero, that are completely anonymous. Crypto will get mass adopted, but there would no privacy coins at all.

I think the KYC rules apply on customeraccount level and the FATF travel rule applies on transaction level. With an open
blockchain like Bitcoin, the exchange can apply this travel rule because the senders and receivers can be viewed
publicly on-chain, which means sender and receiver information can be gathered and sent to this global international monitoring system
and Bitcoin is therefore in compliance with this travel rule.

Lets forget for a moment that even Bitcoin has CoinJoin activity on its network (several Bitcoin wallets support CoinJoin and there
is some mixing / privacy enhancement happening on a very low and very centralized level) and focus on Monero.
Monero has a closed blockchain, where senders and receivers are not public knowledge (they are purposely hidden on-chain),
which means information on sender and receiver can therefore not be gathered and sent to some global international monitoring system.
This means there is no compliance with the travel rule.

Most major exchanges and custodial wallet providers seem to choose TRISA these days (an open-source solution) over delisting
specific cryptocurrencies that can provide private transactions. Maybe OKEx Korea will also one day implement TRISA
(its a rather recent open-source solution, only published somewhere this month) and then re-introduce these delisted crypto assets.

Link : https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190910005635/en/CipherTrace-Unveils-Trustworthy-Open-Source-Solution-FATF

Note : people should not confuse OKEx Korea, with their more international focussed and larger exchange OKEx. Only OKEx Korea
is delisting these 5 cryptocurrencies.

Its also questionable why they include Dash to this delisting as Dash also has an open blockchain like Bitcoin, its senders and receivers
can be viewed on-chain and can just like Bitcoin be gathered and and sent to this global monitoring system for 99% of its transactions
(just like Bitcoin there is a very low level of optional privacy enhancement occurring on the Dash network). Dash is even a fork of Bitcoin and has a high level of compatability with Bitcoin code-wise. Its makes very little sense to include Dash, unless the South Korean government was more focussed on label-branded "privacy-centric" cryptocurrencies (only focussing on privacy) and thought that Dash belong to those (it does not).

War against Monero & privacy coins, & Dash's new Coinbase listing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3355&v=WxEUO05-aoQ

Interesting comparison between Dash and Monero and they also go into the war on privacy and the delisting of both coins.
It is a pretty fair youtube video review of both cryptoprojects and shows some opinions on where this war on privacy
is leading to, while providing some background info on both projects.

Does Ciphertrace tech work for privacy coins?

I am expecting this to be implement around the globe when every government take a grip about the market as they do not want to give their citizens any privacy and they need transparency and with regulations coming up i knew they will force the exchanges to delist all the privacy related coins and they will drive the market underground.
Privacy as a word we will teach the next generation if the government move at this rate.

I think the problem is that it is anonymous, so the government removes the privacy of the coins so that all transactions and information can be seen and accessed,
in my opinion this is legitimate if indeed the Korean government wants to implement it, and for privacy coins there is certainly no opportunity to enter the Korean market.

That's is indeed to most important question, I think Dash can insure compliance to the FATF travel rule through TRISA. But I'm not so sure about closed blockchains, where sender and receiver are shielded (either optional like zcash or active by default like monero).

They do state :


I just don't know if those existing blockchains also include closed blockchains / privacy blockchains.

Make sense, that's why Okex Korea delisting this privacy coins and not only OKEX korea are working on this. I've heard a news regarding the same thing, delisting privacy coins in upbit korea. Looks like korea are strict in their law that's why exchange have to comply with this or they will be in a huge trouble.

now i see , so its all about these kyc thing again . privacy coins are indemand tho because privacy concious people will definetly chose these kind of coins  more over on the common cryptos  which was only partial anonymous  .

 exchanges like okex and others that are doing it will surely experience in a drop of volume but other exchanges that doesnt do a kind of activity like this will possibly be boosted and will increase thier volume especially on to those privacy coins  .

Korean finds Privacy coins good coins to invest many of them believe in the profitability of this Privacy coins, it's Okex's lost, they will lose volume and customers who are big supporters of these  Privacy coins, just surprising that it's coming from a Korean exchange, I hope they will have a change of policy in the futures.

While the FATF travel rule is not mandatory or merely recommendations, OKEX and other Korean exchanges are pre-empting the crackdown by Government authorities. They are very strict with the implementation of KYC after all and it will not be a surprise if they will also require exchanges to abide by the FATF travel rules.

greatest altcoin delist from okex is not good information, have anything wrong with this altcoin have to delist from okex? We always check new update information keep away lost our assets.

Sad tendency for all privacy funs. Main problem of btc is blockchain explorer in my opinion.
Transparency is good for logistic and other sort of business but not for money transactions

If you would like to make such new currency legit, you need to satisfy governments that BTC is transparent and thanks to that they can collect taxes, watch the criminals and so on.

well, its a sad news.
no one more want privacy coins ?
and also another big exchange, such as CEX.io UK and coinbase UK also delist privacy coins.


of course something wrong happen , because privacy coin cannot be tracked and government hate that.

Let me state this once more :

OKEx Korea is delisting these 5 privacy coins
OKEx is not delisting these 5 privacy coins (if they are indeed all 5 on this exchange, i know Dash is .. margin trading included)

Two different exchanges, two different size of exchanges, two different exchange listings of crypto assets !!
HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.

So please no more talking about OKEx delisting, it is OKEx Korea delisting.

Read the post above mine. I'm afraid big exchange's might do the same, Since privacy coins can't be tracked government officials will make buying or trading these coins difficult. Atomic swaps might be of good use in case there's a wider ban on privacy coins.

I see upbit decided to join the party and delist some privacy coins as well.

I haven't studied privacy coins enough to know the answer to this, so will ask here, but for something like Dash, couldn't the exchange simply disallow deposits on coins that made use of the privacy features? Since privacy is optional and transactions can be looked up on the chain, that'd seem like a decent compromise solution.

I'll guess that won't work with all privacy coins though, especially ones where privacy is automatic or there is no way to look up transactions.

That's also overlooking coin mixing services that already exist for BTC and other coins -- seems like it's more a public relations thing than something that'll matter in the end.

Seems South Korea is clamping down on privacy coin because of money laundering. I hope this will not be spread to other exchanges because it will not mean well for Monero, dash and cryptocurrency as a whole because it glaringly tells that cryptocurrency has been hijacked by centralised bodies.

That's one of the things about centralized exchanges, and the reason Okex targeted this group of cryptocurrencies is that, they don't conform to their bidding. Privacy coins are meant to be used for anonymous activities, anything short than that will only go against the reason why it's created. However, I only see Okex sticking to regulations and this news will have little or no effect on the crypto space.

This is not encouraging and I fear other exchanges might start taking this path. Centralized exchanges are always bound by one regulations or the other, so I think they are trying to respect one law or the other. In my own opinion, I think it is time for DEX to improve so as to offer services which suited for these privacy coins should in case the worst happens. One thing is sure, privacy coins aren't going anywhere, they have come to stay.

I think it is but I believe even DEXes are bound by law,  it is just a matter of time before regulation hit these DEXes.  Regarding the delisting of privacy coins on centralized exchange, it had been an issue for sometime now, and it seems these privacy coins will be purge out of the normal cryptocurrency market and will be forced to be traded underground were regulation cannot reach.

It is a natural move of centralized exchanges as regulations increase around the world. Either way, decentralized exchanges are ideal for those seeking privacy. The only problem is that may impact the prices, at least in the short term, as the trading volume decreases.

It's bitter to see this happening in the crypto space, crypto users are gradually being deprived of their right to select privacy coins hence the market is being compromised by things in the traditional systems of the world.  Privacy coins should for no reason be delisted, I don't see anything wrong with it. The crypto space should not allow what is obtainable in the conventional world oppress our will for variety.

LOL

Transaction level?  The exchange totaly know where they sent coins. They have view key. FATF travel rule is about person informations not about transaction. Just read it.  Exchange customer that is KYCed clearly know where to whome he sent his coins and who send them to him and can normal tell that to anyone that is curious about it.

Are you telling me that exchanges have the ability to directly connect senders and receivers to Monero transactions?  Senders and receivers that are suppose to be shielded on-chain ? I thought only Monero users can view their own transactions?  (if they remember to which address they sent it). Are you telling me if someone hacks an exchange, they can obtain sender and receiver information about Monero transactions ? Thereby completely de-anomyzing Monero transactions ?

I don't think exchanges have that kind of information, they only have KYC information on their customers and are now required to pass additional sender and receiver information from transactions that go through their exchange, which will simply not be possible with certain cryptocurrencies (specially those that shield that information on-chain even from them).

Anyways, FATF is clearly setting up a global monitoring system, where suspicious looking transactions can be flagged and checked for sender and receiver information, without FATF having to go back to exchanges to request that sort of information. Sort of a global operating upstreaming data information system.

It’s a pity that exchanges are already starting to do everything to please regulators, binance made a separate exchange for Americans, it still didn’t go, but excluding anonymous cryptocurrencies from the list is already too much, because the main goal of cryptocurrencies is anonymity, and this destroys it

I don't think Satoshi had anonymity in mind when he/she/them created Bitcoin. I think the main goal was introducing a new trustless, peer to peer, decentralized payment system network to compete at some level with the traditional fiat system. A new system that happened to have (pseudo) anonymity.

A precedent has been set, many exchanges will eventually follow suit in delisting privacy-based coins, it's not a matter of if now, it's a matter of when. In addition, it's not unreasonable to speculate that delisting these coins will also save most of these exchanges from illegal practices or reluctance to take action against them.

This is ultimately what a CEX is, a body to be governed by governments.

If so, it seems kind of odd for coinbase to take on Dash when it did. And I think Binance US plans to list Dash as well. I'm not saying you are wrong about other exchanges following suit, just thinking aloud how it was weird timing.

I wonder if privacy coins will adapt (if they can)? It's not like the privacy feature of Dash for instance is an absolute requirement, quite the opposite.

Dash is quite different overall in terms of privacy. I just read a post this morning that will help sum up why this is the case and has been the reigning thought for most.

Reference link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5186577.msg52525069#msg52525069

It seems like Dash shouldn't have been lumped in with those other coins and delisted then. It's not so different than BTC really. It's also a situation where an exchange could do some blockchain lookup magic if they wanted to, and simply kick out traders who made use of the privacy function for past transactions, rather than completely delist the coin for everyone.

Not sure how Monero and similar coins would adapt, however, unless they kind of redo most of their code, or I guess move onto decentralized exchanges.

Recently, anonymous coins are no longer accepted in this market because these are the coins that can affect the economy, so the world government is very considerate about this issue. I think anonymous coins should only appear in Asian exchanges because this is the best place for these coins to work best. I personally don't like European exchanges because there are too many legal issues there

One of the reasons they do it is that the high-privacy cryptocurrencies are used by the criminal world more often than Bitcoin. Monero is the most popular crypto among those, who have evel intentions. Zcash is also used. However, delisting from the list of exchanges and lower prices do not slow down the development of privacy technologies in cryptocurrencies. Zcash Electric Coin released Halo, a technology that will further enhance the privacy of this crypto.

No I am telling you transactions have nothing to do with FATF travel rule. And I told you that exchange make the transactions themself. Exchanges are Monero users, so they totally know where they sent and where the coins come from.   FATF travel rule is about persons. You can get those information only by doing proper KYC on your exchange. No matter what cyptocurrency you then use.

curently, Nations are trying to regulate the crypto space as it has not been the expectation of the users, the experiences most of them have gone thorugh in the spirit of investors. Causing exchanges to delist coins that have privacy rule is like a first step towards the regulatory approach.

At the end, regulation knocked on the door of the crypto market with sufficient force. In view of such news, thoughts about the Libra coin come to mind, a fully centralized coin is the future in a fully regulated crypto market. It is interesting how events will develop in the future, because not all exchanges will agree to remove anonymous coins. But the fact that some of the largest removed these coins still means a lot. Regulation can greatly change the market, but for it to work, it must be legislatively higher than the level of individual countries.
The fact that the Okex exchange had to remove part of the coins without any additional penalties already says that everything is okay with the exchange, at least for now.

They want to pass laws but they are criminals themselves? The asked my KYC for so-called "suspicious activity" they just locked my account and demanded my KYC like a bunch of thugs.
KYC does not protect anyone I lost money because it was badly implemented. People who should not be asking for it are and it is ridiculous. The USA must keep their crappy laws to themselves. Not all of us live in the USA and have an insane government. I would be afraid to live in the USA, to be honest. I would be afraid the police break into my house and force themselves in and arrest me for using crypto or basically doing what they don't like.

When the criminals start using KYC then it has failed. It reminds me of drug laws.

You should not use exchange that follow US laws if you dont want to follow what are requiring  you to do.
There are exchange that dont required KYC  with a minimum widrawal limit.
I am also affraid of the KYC thing but its depends on what exchange it is.

I second that but I hope it's not going to happen and no more exchange will follow what they've done, all these exchanges are not yet existed and yet these privacy coins are already in existence, they did not consider all these coin's followers and communities, anyway I don't it's these coins lost, these coins contribute a lot of volume in every exchange where they are listed.

It's indicative of a larger trend within crypto, which is the trend of regulation and much tighter restrictions imposed by governments and intergovernment organisations.

That's a part of the reason why people's tastes have shifted towards altcoins which have real life implications as opposed to privacy alone, and also a huge reason why the price of Monero, ZEC, and Dash have continued to slip despite BTC's bull runs earlier in the year.

Don't be surprised if other exchanges, even Binance, start delisting these anonymous coins one by one as they become more "compliant" to international regulations and standards. Unfortunately, this is one of the prices to pay for more matured regulatory measures.