Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Kakmakr on September 19, 2019, 06:59:56 AM



Title: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Kakmakr on September 19, 2019, 06:59:56 AM
This is really amazing, the Federal Reserve just printed some more toilet paper money and injected it into the financial market and the Bitcoin price takes a 5% nose dive.  ::)

How gullible are the investors that they would be willing to pull money out of their Bitcoin investments to fund investments in the over inflated stock markets.  ::)

I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Let's stay calm and ride this out, because I am definitely not going to sell my coins to greedy scumbags, who are just into Bitcoin for the quick profits.  >:(

Do you think this is a Bear trap? Let's discuss......  :P


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 19, 2019, 07:33:07 AM
I thought it was $75 billion? Do you have a source for $175 billion?

I've not had much time in the last few days to read about this properly, but I'm pretty sure this money is bought back the next morning. If there is a shortfall of cash, the Fed will spend money in cash to buy assets from banks, and then the next day the bank will buy back its assets form the Fed. This isn't really printing money in the sense we usually think about - this is money the Fed was already holding, and which will be removed from the monetary supply within 24 hours (actually, slightly more will be removed because the Fed charges the bank interest on this deal).

That's not to say that fiat isn't a sinking ship, and more money is printed over time as and when the banks or the Fed fancy, but this isn't that. This is, however, the first time the Fed has had to make one of these deals in over 10 years (from what I've read), so it is certainly another indication of the strain on the markets and potentially another impending recession.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Kakmakr on September 19, 2019, 07:54:49 AM
I thought it was $75 billion? Do you have a source for $175 billion?

I've not had much time in the last few days to read about this properly, but I'm pretty sure this money is bought back the next morning. If there is a shortfall of cash, the Fed will spend money in cash to buy assets from banks, and then the next day the bank will buy back its assets form the Fed. This isn't really printing money in the sense we usually think about - this is money the Fed was already holding, and which will be removed from the monetary supply within 24 hours (actually, slightly more will be removed because the Fed charges the bank interest on this deal).

That's not to say that fiat isn't a sinking ship, and more money is printed over time as and when the banks or the Fed fancy, but this isn't that. This is, however, the first time the Fed has had to make one of these deals in over 10 years (from what I've read), so it is certainly another indication of the strain on the markets and potentially another impending recession.

The press are playing with numbers --> https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/fed-repo-injects-billions-into-market-first-time-in-decade-2019-9-1028534289  " The central bank has injected a total of $128 billion into markets — $53 billion on Tuesday and another $75 billion on Wednesday. " ... but the amount is not the main issue now, rather the fact that they are doing this again after 10 years.  ::)

The warning signs are there that the government is trying to rescue Bond markets and the whole lending system in the USA and in times like this, smart investors should rather pull their investments and look for safe havens.... but they are doing the opposite. Why? 


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: tonyvo2017 on September 19, 2019, 09:17:17 AM
No, I don't think this is a trap. because I see that this is the rule of the financial market. In which markets are beneficial, the whales will usually go there and eat their prey, after the food runs out, it will return to the starting point.
This is also a good signal to buy more bitcoin and hold, it is about to grow again!


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: cosmofly on September 19, 2019, 01:07:04 PM
This is really amazing, the Federal Reserve just printed some more toilet paper money and injected it into the financial market and the Bitcoin price takes a 5% nose dive.  ::)

How gullible are the investors that they would be willing to pull money out of their Bitcoin investments to fund investments in the over inflated stock markets.  ::)

I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Let's stay calm and ride this out, because I am definitely not going to sell my coins to greedy scumbags, who are just into Bitcoin for the quick profits.  >:(

Do you think this is a Bear trap? Let's discuss......  :P
This is not a bear trap, because this decline has not yet been called a bear, it is only a slight decrease as the stock market has more potential in the short term.
Don't worry, when the stock market gets less busy, those investors will return to Bitcoin and pump its price up. Keep holding !


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 19, 2019, 01:26:07 PM
It doesn't work like that, you cannot add the amounts like that as they are Overnight Repos: so the FED prints money in the evening, and destroys it the morning after. It is due to balancing banks reserves in the system to counteract to temporary imbalances.
So now (19 september 2019)  they printed only 75 until tomorrow morning.

They did it several times in the past few days:

  • 53 BLN on Tuesday 9/17 to 9/18
  • 75 BLN on Wednesday 9/18 to 9/19
  • 75 BLN on today 9/19 to 9/20

Here you understand the amount of money created is the same and equal only to the currently live operation.
It's part of the job of any central bank. The point that it hasn't been necessary since 10 years has no implication whatsoever for financial stability.


Explainer: The Fed has a repo problem. What's that? (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fed-repo-tools-explainer/explainer-the-fed-has-a-repo-problem-whats-that-idUSKBN1W30EJ)
Quote
In a repo trade, Wall Street firms and banks offer U.S. Treasuries and other high-quality securities as collateral to raise cash, often overnight, to finance their trading and lending activities. The next day, borrowers repay their loans plus what is typically a nominal rate of interest and get their bonds back. In other words, they repurchase, or repo, the bonds.

The system might be rotten, but this one is not a proof of that.
For sure I can't see why bitcoin should rise on this particular news.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Lucius on September 19, 2019, 01:29:37 PM
The warning signs are there that the government is trying to rescue Bond markets and the whole lending system in the USA and in times like this, smart investors should rather pull their investments and look for safe havens.... but they are doing the opposite. Why? 

Maybe because they're not smart, or they don't even understand what Bitcoin is? Or they stick to traditional "safe havens" like gold which goes high close to $1500 per ounce., or maybe they like to invest in bonds with negative-yielding which has increased almost three times in just a year to $15 trillion. Smart investors like to play with trillion $ markets, and Bitcoin is just under $200 billion today.

I would say that this printing is not couse of recent very small dip of some $300, it's something that's been happening constantly in recent months.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 19, 2019, 01:41:37 PM
Investors are smart, and they do know what bitcoin is and how it could be used by them.
They perfectly know how a decorrelated, high volatility asset could fit in their portfolios (here a post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5183686.msg52423641#msg52423641) detailing in a simple way why the're looking so attentively to bitcoin in their portfolios..
The point is they cannot get exposure to bitcoin, even if they want to.
They cannot buy bitcoin: it is not on the investment mandate of 99% of the investors on the streets. They simply cannot touch it.
This is why a tradable form of bitcoin, say BAKKT or some sort of Exchange Traded Fund (or any other listed alternatives, OTC trading is not a viable options for many, as SolidX fiasco showed) is so important to get money inflows from institutional investors.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: carter34 on September 19, 2019, 02:37:11 PM
I think it is, I don't expect price to fall this time when it is beginning to get some positive move. I will rather keep hodling.

No, I don't think this is a trap. because I see that this is the rule of the financial market. In which markets are beneficial, the whales will usually go there and eat their prey, after the food runs out, it will return to the starting point.
This is also a good signal to buy more bitcoin and hold, it is about to grow again!

You said no to the question but what you have written deduced that it is a trap.



Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 19, 2019, 06:55:29 PM
The point that it hasn't been necessary since 10 years has no implication whatsoever for financial stability.
I'm not so sure about that. The Fed having to do this to such an extent suggests a lot of banks are not meeting their fractional reserve requirements. Banks are no long funding their own debts with their own deposits, and instead they are relying on the federal reserve to bail them out on a nightly basis. Something has changed recently (we don't know what) to force the federal reserve to come in with $75 billion on a nightly basis to support the banks.

Banks should be able to support themselves. If they are experiencing daily shortfalls, then it can impact on other lending, which can impact on the entire economy. The Fed having to bail them out like this is a bad sign.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Harlot on September 19, 2019, 07:14:48 PM
More like a correction to me rather than a bear trap but our views is headed in the same direction that Bitcoin is headed to go up. I do think that there is no connection of Bitcoin going down because the US has printed more money it's just 175 billion dollars spread out in every market and it covers everything to the point it won't have any effect in ours. Like I said this is just a a correction since we have been consolidating for so long and Bitcoin has just decided to take a first move in the market. The price did bounced well in the trend lines and we are now back up again at the 10,000$ level it may not have removed its loss today but  I think it's better than not recovering some of it at this moment. We are lucky that we had a correction as it also made the RSI oversold which is a good sign at the 10k level, we might see some early push in the coming days.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 19, 2019, 07:29:30 PM
<snip>

FED is not bailing out banks.
Capital markets are well functioning and banks were trying to cover a massive reserve drain of roughly 170 billions in a few days (equivalent to the while bitcoin capitalisation, btw) because of a large fiscal payment date is approaching for many corporate in the US.
Overnight rates were going up too fast, too quickly, so the FED downplayed the move with one of his tool.
I can go very technical on this if you want, but believe me not to read too much into that.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 19, 2019, 09:58:35 PM
Capital markets are well functioning and banks were trying to cover a massive reserve drain of roughly 170 billions in a few days (roughly the while bitcoin capitalisation, btw)  because a large fiscal payment date for many corporate in the US.
Overnight rates were going up too fast, too quickly, so the FED downplayed the move with one of his tool.
I appreciate that, but my point still stands. If this was due to a payment date (I'm not sure it was,  but let's assume for the sake of argument), then those payments were completely predictable, and yet the banks still couldn't pay them. The rates were only going up too fast because too many banks were running out of liquidity and having to borrow.

Yes, this is a tool the Fed can use, but they only had to use it because banks were irresponsible and backed themselves in to a corner. The fact that banks can print so much money out of thin air that they run out of even the small fraction of reserves that they keep and the Fed has to step in is a symptom of just how messed up fiat money is.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Tylev on September 20, 2019, 05:06:58 AM
It is unlikely that there is a direct correlation between printing additional amounts of paper dollars and lowering the price of bitcoin. Such manipulations with cash occur regularly, but this did not affect, at least noticeably, the price of bitcoin. In the world there are various financial processes with cash and it is hardly worth paying serious attention to such a fact in a single state.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: xSkylarx on September 20, 2019, 05:19:18 AM
I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Will that really happen? I mean after the $20k ATH last 2017 many speculated that it would even go to $50k on 2018 but what happen devastated everyone in the crypto world. I'm not saying that it would crash but I just don't  want that to happen again. I'm even willing to sold my ltc holdings bought at 0.012 for bitcoin but still hesitant about what happened last year. Opinion guys?


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: zenstrive on September 20, 2019, 05:23:30 AM
and now the price is back to 10200+
Moon Soon?


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Kakmakr on September 20, 2019, 05:50:14 AM
<snip>

FED is not bailing out banks.
Capital markets are well functioning and banks were trying to cover a massive reserve drain of roughly 170 billions in a few days (equivalent to the while bitcoin capitalisation, btw) because of a large fiscal payment date is approaching for many corporate in the US.
Overnight rates were going up too fast, too quickly, so the FED downplayed the move with one of his tool.
I can go very technical on this if you want, but believe me not to read too much into that.

Well, without going into too much detail about this, we can see that governments are manipulating the value of your wealth. Bailouts and rescue practices are either hiding the real problems or they are postponing the economic collapse.  ::)

So tax payers money are used to serve as a safety net for greedy financial institutions and the general public are paying for it. The Banks and the Reserve Banks are part of the problem with the fiat system and the government are protecting them.  >:(


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: davis196 on September 20, 2019, 06:39:55 AM
175 billion dollars is peanuts. ;D
Such small amount won't change anything in the US economy or in the global economy.
By the way,the bitcoin price recovered from the 5% nose dive,so I think it's wrong to search for a correlation between the bitcoin price and how many billions were printed by FED.
There's no bear trap and Bakkt won't change anything.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: slocker on September 20, 2019, 07:05:56 AM
Probably true on everything. Seem like banks dont have answer for this and they try by printing to gain something maybe little control and destabilizing the crypto market.
Printing such large amount can be for many reasons and factor and probably they are only who knows the right one. The things we read from papers and everything else is just something that they want us to read and speculate. Considering price recovered thins is first sign that it was not crypto related.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: TheCoinGrabber on September 20, 2019, 09:46:46 AM
Haven't heard of this news but I guess this is more reason to hold bitcoins or even buy more as the price goes down. We all know that we're ripe for another crash. Even without this injection there are reasons to safeguard our money before it becomes worthless.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: audaciousbeing on September 20, 2019, 01:14:01 PM
This is really amazing, the Federal Reserve just printed some more toilet paper money and injected it into the financial market and the Bitcoin price takes a 5% nose dive.  ::)

How gullible are the investors that they would be willing to pull money out of their Bitcoin investments to fund investments in the over inflated stock markets.  ::)

I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Let's stay calm and ride this out, because I am definitely not going to sell my coins to greedy scumbags, who are just into Bitcoin for the quick profits.  >:(

Do you think this is a Bear trap? Let's discuss......  :P

You cannot conclude that they are gullible because to the extent of their own understanding they are doing the right thing. Also, government printing more money does not necessarily means creating money out of the tin air because a large portion of it would go to replacement of shredded notes that have been retrieved from the economy and also, huge money would have equally be expended in the printing of the money which means the effect in the area of creation of wealth is just going to be marginal if it will have any effect at all.

On the relationship to the price of bitcoin, I personally think its really because bitcoin and the crypto market has not grown to maturity that is why its responding to the printing of currencies of just a country and this wont be there till forever.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: 1Referee on September 20, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
Bitcoin and Gold both haven't done much lately. I think the main point is that we have to understand how investors think, and their gameplan is to front run everything they consider important enough to potentially influence the price. I'm strongly of believe that investors are quite disappointed because they expected much worse measures to be taken, also when it comes to the ECB.

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't doing much is because it's stuck in what appears to be a bearish formation, which we will see it break out of in 10ish days. It could very well be that investors are waiting for that breakout to become active again. Perhaps that moves comes sooner with Bakkt going live next monday. We'll have to wait and see.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: el kaka22 on September 20, 2019, 03:00:12 PM
The great deal about is that printing new money means that dollar will be less valuable in the end and that will create an inflation and people will certainly stay with bitcoin because there is no more new printed so when you calculate how much bitcoin is going for how many dollars in the world the % changes and it becomes lower and lower which means bitcoin will eventually worth more.

I know it sounds like something that should made bitcoin go up instead of 5% down but that is just the short term near sighted result for now, if you wait long enough I am sure eventually bitcoin will go up in price because of inflation. We just have to wait and see how bitcoin will react to it over time, now that halving is coming close the "printing" of our money will be cut down in half as well.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 20, 2019, 04:23:16 PM
My only point is that I wanted to point out it is not true the FED printed 125 Billions of USD. They didn’t .
Then we can discuss about the opportunity to conduct operation to provide the market with a liquidity they were seeking with an overnight rate of 10% (this rate should have been in the 2.10%-2.15% zone instead). In addition to that 125 BLN is a drop in the ocean on the money market size. A market that is way bigger than Bitcoin (175 Billions) or the 125 billions equity derivative book of a single troubled German bank is trying to sell as we speak.

Of course I understand l am writing on bitcointalk.org so not only not everyone has a specific knowledge of how this things develop and why happen, and have a (rightful) tendency to interpret everything on with and anarcho-liberist view.
What I can say is that bitcoin is a complex subject, at the crossroads of many different fields in the human knowledge (cryptography- distributed networks-game theory-monetary theory to name the most important).
Well, for my personal history I think I can give most of my positive contribution on the latter field. So while I might miserably fail giving programming tips or indicating what syntax a .blk file has (true story), I feel pretty confident in saying that this is not an issue, and this particular fact, that way even reported on a very incorrect and superficial way, by no mean can have direct or indirect influence on bitcoin valuation.
There are way more disturbing act by the CB’s influencing bitcoin valuation hundreds times more than this. Don’t get lost analysing a detail losing the big picture.

We might discuss how negative rates, QE and KYC/AML and institutional money influence the bitcoin valuations, these are facts way more important. Please point me in the right direction if you know some thread where you are discussing these.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: RealMalatesta on September 20, 2019, 05:36:20 PM
Unfortunately, that type of money will be never seen by the regular folks and that's the problem.

When a new money printed it usually covers the "debts" of a nation or series of companies and that causes the real trouble, money out of thin air is not something central banks do to actually cover the costs of lets say medical bills of its citizens, that would help a lot of people get back on their feet but they won't do it, it is not spent on education neither, it is not spent on science for sure.

It all goes to banks and wealthy so they won't go down because if they do than they take all the country with them. That is why I personally think that this will not end well but will make the countries economy go bigger, it will get better but for the wrong type of people.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 20, 2019, 07:00:44 PM
My only point is that I wanted to point out it is not true the FED printed 125 Billions of USD. They didn’t .
You are correct here.

In addition to that 125 BLN is a drop in the ocean on the money market size. A market that is way bigger than Bitcoin (175 Billions) or the 125 billions equity derivative book of a single troubled German bank is trying to sell as we speak.
This wasn't the money market though. This was the federal funds markets, which is several orders of magnitude smaller. The fed funds market has been sitting at around $50-80 billion all year, so this represents a significant amount of money. I agree that this is unlikely to have any immediate effect on bitcoin price, but I disagree with you saying it is not an issue. Banks are currently overly relying on the fed to keep up with their liquidity and reserve requirements. The last time we saw this was in the run up to the 2008 crash.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Oilacris on September 20, 2019, 07:28:53 PM
Unfortunately, that type of money will be never seen by the regular folks and that's the problem.

When a new money printed it usually covers the "debts" of a nation or series of companies and that causes the real trouble, money out of thin air is not something central banks do to actually cover the costs of lets say medical bills of its citizens, that would help a lot of people get back on their feet but they won't do it, it is not spent on education neither, it is not spent on science for sure.

It all goes to banks and wealthy so they won't go down because if they do than they take all the country with them. That is why I personally think that this will not end well but will make the countries economy go bigger, it will get better but for the wrong type of people.
As usual and this is how the reality works and we cant able to stop them on how they do gonna supposed to used of those printed money out of nowhere.

Using it up directly for the sole purpose on taking down something wont really be that possible.There would be lots of priorities to think off rather than on
focusing into a single issue and its way too more obvious if they did that.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 21, 2019, 03:51:54 PM
My only point is that I wanted to point out it is not true the FED printed 125 Billions of USD. They didn’t .
You are correct here.

In addition to that 125 BLN is a drop in the ocean on the money market size. A market that is way bigger than Bitcoin (175 Billions) or the 125 billions equity derivative book of a single troubled German bank is trying to sell as we speak.
This wasn't the money market though. This was the federal funds markets, which is several orders of magnitude smaller. The fed funds market has been sitting at around $50-80 billion all year, so this represents a significant amount of money.
Here my source:

https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/fed%20funds

Fed funds overnight trades have been on that size for daily volumes. Fed funds market involves also longer term operations , or even different kind of trades, that aren’t accounted in that statistic.
Anyway: banks are screwed because of many other reasons! We do agree on this.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 21, 2019, 06:54:21 PM
Fed funds overnight trades have been on that size for daily volumes. Fed funds market involves also longer term operations , or even different kind of trades, that aren’t accounted in that statistic.
I appreciate those are daily volumes. What I meant was that for pretty much the entire year, the daily volume has been sitting at around $50-80 billion. Apologies for not being clearer.

As you correctly point out, the federal funds market and the numbers given above and in your link also includes a number of other trades. This makes it even more concerning when there is sudden and unexpected loans of $75 billion being given out overnight. The banks are struggling, and we all know what happened last time that was the case.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fiulpro on September 21, 2019, 09:32:25 PM
I think it is highly unlikely that it's that much connected but since the banks are in debt maybe it is the government that is more or so affected and as far as I remember there is no government that is so involved with the bitcoins.

If this 5% down coincidentally coincides with this I don't think there might be any reason ... Their economy is going down not our Bitcoins ...it's global.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: hatshepsut93 on September 21, 2019, 10:09:06 PM
It seems counter intuitive because we've made ourselves think that Bitcoin is a hedge against fiat, but in order for that to be true a large portion market participants need to hold the same belief, which is not the case at this moment. Also Bitcoin's own volatility is far bigger than any correlations with fiat markets or politics or any other events - this volatility easily overshadows them. And this volatility is actually the reason why Bitcoin can't be a good hedge at this state - people are trying to avoid a loss on a magnitude of a few percents, with Bitcoin you can lose that value in one minute.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Prettyme on September 21, 2019, 11:00:32 PM
This is really amazing, the Federal Reserve just printed some more toilet paper money and injected it into the financial market and the Bitcoin price takes a 5% nose dive.  ::)

How gullible are the investors that they would be willing to pull money out of their Bitcoin investments to fund investments in the over inflated stock markets.  ::)

I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Let's stay calm and ride this out, because I am definitely not going to sell my coins to greedy scumbags, who are just into Bitcoin for the quick profits.  >:(

Do you think this is a Bear trap? Let's discuss......  :P
It is possibly a bear trap since many of you has a lot of bitcoin investments and they want to take an advantage by means of printing more toilet paper money because with that many of investors got panic until they will now sell all their bitcoins. So i do hope that investors should smart enough on how are they going to play with this game.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Decksperiment on September 21, 2019, 11:39:52 PM
The point that it hasn't been necessary since 10 years has no implication whatsoever for financial stability.
I'm not so sure about that. The Fed having to do this to such an extent suggests a lot of banks are not meeting their fractional reserve requirements. Banks are no long funding their own debts with their own deposits, and instead they are relying on the federal reserve to bail them out on a nightly basis. Something has changed recently (we don't know what) to force the federal reserve to come in with $75 billion on a nightly basis to support the banks.

Banks should be able to support themselves. If they are experiencing daily shortfalls, then it can impact on other lending, which can impact on the entire economy. The Fed having to bail them out like this is a bad sign.

I bet this money printing issue with U.S. has a something to do with  countering China's indiscriminate printing of money and has long been accused of currency manipulation by the  U.S. Government. I think it has a noble cause.

Link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6146957/China-alarmed-by-US-money-printing.html


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 22, 2019, 11:52:23 AM
Ok,
I found this BBG article.
I cannot link here the source because I think it is paywalled.
Code:

Repo Market's Liquidity Crisis Has Been a Decade in the Making

 
By Liz Capo McCormick, Matthew Boesler and Craig Torres

(Bloomberg) --
It sounds crazy: even National Public Radio is talking about repo rates.

In normal times, not even Wall Street thinks too much about the arcana of short-term money markets.
But over the past week, the Federal Reserve has had to work unusually hard to rein in a key policy rate after overnight repo lending dried up. Suddenly, everyone is asking the same question: what does it mean?
The answer is sobering. Despite assurances by the Fed and others to the contrary, the stress in the market for repurchase agreements, or repos, has exposed some fundamental weaknesses in the nation’s financial system which have been a decade in the making. While they don’t pose a significant problem during good times, the risk is clear: without a permanent fix, sudden cash shortages could lead to broader financial market turmoil in a downturn.

“The machine of liquidity management is just not oiled anymore,” GLMX Chief Executive Officer Glenn Havlicek, who runs a trading platform for repo securities and has four decades of experience in funding markets.

The repo market is important because it serves as the grease that keeps the global capital markets spinning. In a repo, firms borrow cash from each other by putting up securities like Treasuries as collateral. When the agreement expires, the borrower “repurchases” the collateral and returns the cash, though in practice repos are often rolled over day after day.

Hedge funds often use repos to finance purchases of higher-yielding assets, while dealers that are obligated to bid for Treasuries at U.S. debt auctions use them as a way to avoid putting up their own capital.

Participants point the finger at two structural changes that have drained too much cash from the system and made the repo market more prone to seizing up: crisis-era monetary policies and financial regulations designed to curb risk-taking. They contend that those two forces, rather than a mere confluence of technical factors, are what’s really behind this past week’s disruptions.

The first has to do with the unwinding of the Fed’s quantitative easing program, or QE. Simply put, after buying trillions of dollars of bonds to pump cheap money into the banking system, the Fed reversed course and started reducing its holdings (and thus draining cash) in October 2017 as the economy strengthened. It stopped altogether last month.

The problem is that, in reducing the asset side of its ledger, the Fed has also had to shrink its liabilities to balance its balance sheet. Those liabilities consist of currency in circulation, which has naturally increased with the economy, and bank reserves, which have fallen.

Of course, that in itself wouldn’t be enough to cause a scarcity of cash in the banking system since firms in aggregate still have over a trillion dollars in reserves. But because of post-crisis rules such as Dodd-Frank and Basel III, banks have been forced to set aside much of those same reserves to meet the more stringent requirements, putting a strain on the available cash they can use. What’s more, capital constraints have made taking large positions in short-term money markets far less lucrative.

“The Fed wanted the market to restructure to a new equilibrium and institutions to figure out how to fund themselves,” said Julia Coronado, president of Macropolicy Perspectives. But “if you have an excess reserve system, you are by definition a primary source of liquidity. And when you squeeze funding markets, you are usually squeezing hedge funds and other investors that may have to cut positions which can spark broader volatility.”

JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon summed up the conundrum last week, saying that “banks have a tremendous amount of liquidity, but also have a tremendous amount of restraints on how they use that liquidity.”

The swelling U.S. deficit caused by President Donald Trump’s tax cuts hasn’t helped matters. For one, the money that investors and dealers lend to the government in the form of bond purchases takes money out of the banking system. For another, dealers at Treasury auctions have increasingly turned from lenders to borrowers in the repo market to absorb the additional supply. This year, net issuance will reach roughly $1.2 trillion, after $1.3 trillion last year, according to JPMorgan. In 2017, it was less than half that.

Those liquidity constraints came into full view over the past few days when corporate tax payments, big Treasury auctions and maneuvers by financial firms to manage their capital requirements prior to quarter-end drained cash available for repo transactions. The overnight lending rate quickly shot up to 10% and the Fed temporarily lost control of its benchmark rate.

In the past, the Fed has disputed the idea that its balance-sheet unwind left bank reserves in short supply. And at his post-policy news conference on Sept. 18, Fed Chairman Jerome Powell sidestepped questions about whether he felt bank regulations were a catalyst for the market turmoil.

Instead, the Fed has opted for a temporary fix. On Friday, the New York Fed announced a series of overnight and term operations over the next three weeks to boost short-term liquidity. That follows four straight days of repo transactions, something it hasn’t done in a decade.

A number of investors, strategists and at least one former Fed official have come out to warn that more may need to be done.

“Maybe we have gotten some hints that reserves are no longer ample,” said Michael Feroli, JPMorgan’s chief economist. “The longer the Fed goes without making changes, the more often you might have these type of incidences.”

Earlier this year, TD Securities’ Priya Misra predicted the Fed would have to resume its bond purchases as a permanent solution. She says this past week’s events have convinced many of her skeptical clients have come around to the idea. They are now asking her “how much” the Fed will need to buy.

While no decisions have been made, Boston Fed President Eric Rosengren acknowledged last week that permanently expanding the Fed’s balance sheet is one option on the table and the one he personally prefers. (The other two being continued ad-hoc interventions or a so-called standing repo facility, which would make cash loans available on a daily basis.)

Growing the balance sheet might also be the easier one, particularly after the New York Fed stumbled out of the gate as it tried to come to the rescue on Tuesday, says GMLX’s Havlicek.

“The repo market isn’t used to being prime time,” in terms of liquidity management, he said. And, the Fed is “out of practice.”





Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Leonardo7 on September 22, 2019, 07:12:49 PM
Printing more money to defend or try to absorb shock in the economy will always do more harm than good because economic Mafias will end up pocketing the money, and the impending crises may not have even be solved. Anyone shorting bitcoin to long shares in the stock exchange may regret their actions.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 22, 2019, 07:39:00 PM
-snip-
The Fed's balance sheet was always less than $1 trillion prior to the 2008 crash. Since then it ballooned up to over $4 trillion due to the quantitative easing package, and only in the last couple of years has it started to be reduced. The most recent data (here: https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/) puts it at $3.8 trillion.

Rosengren has previously said he sees no problems with the Fed's balance sheet being so large:
He described the Fed’s post-crisis approach to monetary policy implementation as requiring a larger balance sheet.

Saying that was one thing, but now he is proposing to "permanently expand" the balance sheet even further. He makes no indication as to how much further it should be expanded. Another however many trillion created out of nothing to shore up the government and the banks? Great.



Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 22, 2019, 09:54:51 PM
The nonsense of a permanent of prolonged QE would be the most bullish BTCUSD signal ever.
Bullish bitcoin denominated in dollar, because it would be actually bearish for dollar, rather bullish for bitcoin.



Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: bryant.coleman on September 23, 2019, 03:35:18 AM
As long as the US Dollar remains as the reserve currency of the world, the federal reserve can ask the United States treasury to print as much banknotes as they like. Despite the hype surrounding the new influx, the exchange rate for US Dollar went up against other currencies (such as the Euro and the Chinese Yuan) during the past few weeks. The Euro vs USD exchange rate went from 1.12 to 1.10. What this indicates is that while the USD is a bad currency, the other fiat currencies are even worse.

None of the fiat currencies in the world are backed up with any real assets (gold, silver.etc) and all of them are unprotected against inflation. Only Bitcoin is protected against inflation, thanks to the principle of controlled supply. But there are indications that the world is shifting away from fiat currencies. The gold prices are up by 20% so far this year. And Bitcoin is up by more than 200%. And in case the trade war between the US and China worsens, then we'll be witnessing even larger spikes for these assets.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 24, 2019, 07:44:16 AM
Apparently the FED is as puzzled as Bitcointalk.org forum about this move in STIRs.... this is definitely not a good sign.

Sorry again, I cannot link the original article source, as the come behind Bloomberg paywall.

Quote
Fed's Daly: Repo Strains Showed a Liquidity Distribution Problem
By Matthew Boesler

(Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco President Mary Dalysays strains last week in money markets didn’t arise because of a lack of liquidity but because liquidity wasn’t moving between banks as expected.
“Institutions behaved a bit differently than we had forecast that they would. So, what does that mean? We didn’t have a liquidity problem in the system. We had a distribution of that liquidity. And one of the things that was surprising is that institutions didn’t trade that liquidity with each other”
Daly answers audience questions after remarks at an event in Salem, Oregon, on Monday
“Liquidity wasn’t being moved around from one institution to another to balance it out, and then rates would surge, and so that necessitated our intervention”
“That was something that we’ll look back on and ask the question: have banks just simply lost the muscle, that they weren’t used to this? Or, is it something more material than that, that will affect how we think about going forward?”

Quote
Fed’s Williams Says Repo Turmoil Raises Question on Reserves (1)
Fed assessing implications for balance sheet, Williams says
Predecessor Dudley also sees new facility under consideration

By Matthew Boesler

(Bloomberg) -- Last week’s turmoil in money markets raises questions about the appropriate level of bank reserves in the financial system, Federal Reserve Bank of New York President John Williams said.
It is “important that we examine these recent market dynamics and their implications for the liquidity needs in relation to the overall amount of reserves held at the Federal Reserve,” Williams said Monday in a speech in New York.
John Williams
The New York Fed chief’s comments follow a week of volatility in money markets that was unprecedented in the years since the financial crisis. Short-term interest rates jumped amid the strain, pulling the U.S. central bank’s benchmark rate above the target range and forcing the New York Fed to intervene with overnight cash loans for the first time in a decade to quell the surge.
Read more: Repo Turmoil in Check as Fed Mounts Second Week of Operations
“We will continue to monitor and analyze developments closely,” Williams said, adding that officials “will assess the implications for the appropriate level of reserves and time to resume organic growth of the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet.”
That remark echoed a comment Fed Chairman Jerome Powell made to reporters at a press conference on Wednesday after the central bank cut rates for the second time in two months.
In the years after the crisis, the Fed expanded its balance sheet to $4.5 trillion through bond purchases designed to drive down long-term interest rates. From October 2017 through July 2019, it partially unwound its bond portfolio, draining cash out of the banking system in the process.
Last week’s turmoil -- which centered on the market for repurchase agreements, or repos -- put attention on whether the Fed went too far in shrinking its securities holdings, and when the central bank would begin resuming balance-sheet expansion to keep pace with the needs of a growing economy.
Williams’s predecessor, William Dudley, said during an interview Monday on Bloomberg Television that Fed officials will probably also seriously consider a new tool to contain short-term interest rates.
“They’ll increase the size of their balance sheet. So, they’ll start to buy Treasury securities again,” Dudley said. “And the second thing that they are going to strongly consider, I think, is introducing a standing repo facility, so whenever there is upward pressure on short-term rates, there is a facility that people can come to and do repo with, and that would sort of take away any risk of a big upswing.”(Updates with comments from former N.Y. Fed chief in eighth paragraph.)

Financial markets are a complicated issue, I wouldn't be so drastic as o_e_l_e_o theories, but this is somewhat disappointing for me. They are literally  groping in the dark: this is not what would you expect from a central bank that has been manipulating markets since 10 years!


<snip>
What this indicates is that while the USD is a bad currency, the other fiat currencies are even worse.

Very entertaining video related your very true statement.
HSBC's Bloom Says Dollar Is Best of Bad Bunch (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-04-17/hsbc-s-bloom-says-dollar-is-best-of-bad-bunch-video)


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: beerlover on September 24, 2019, 08:26:12 AM
That won't go for too long if they keep printing too much money tho. Like yeah sure dollar is a global reserve thing right now but at the end of the day there is no way dollar could continue to lose value by printing more dollars and then still hope that nations would hold a currency that is constantly losing money on their reserves.

If a country realizes that the dollars they worked hard to save on the reserves worth nothing now, they will start focusing more on Euro and even Yuan if they can just to have a better future on their reserves, if they ever need dollars for something they would change exchange their euro for dollars for that job and then be done with it but not hold it. Hence, dollar needs to hold its value as long as possible .


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on September 24, 2019, 09:50:21 AM
I wouldn't be so drastic as o_e_l_e_o theories, but this is somewhat disappointing for me. They are literally  groping in the dark: this is not what would you expect from a central bank that has been manipulating markets since 10 years!
Haha, fair enough. I'll admit I'm pretty much a perma-bear when it comes to fiat that can be created out of thin air at the whim of a government or a bank. This is especially the case when looking at USD, with spiralling and out of control national debt to pay for ever increasing levels of government spending and Trump jeopardizing the US's biggest trade deals.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the Fed's final analysis of this "lack of movement of liquidity" is. I still think its concerning that banks can behave so unpredictably that it necessitates the Fed stepping in with billions of dollars of funding to stabilize things, and even more concerning that the Fed don't know why it happened.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: mersal on September 24, 2019, 03:06:18 PM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: coolcoinz on September 24, 2019, 04:04:01 PM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!

Articles are one of the biggest manipulators in the crypto market and you quoting them and asking us how we feel about it is a great proof of how big of an impact they have.
They cannot know what the price will do, nobody can, but them saying that they feel this or that way is actually adding their reputation to the mix. So, now it's "nobody knows, but we as a news site predict that... (and hope that you will follow our advice and make this prediction more likely to come to life)."

This printing will have a delay impact on the market. I believe we will see people come to understand it in a few months. This selloff has nothing to do with fiat printing. It has to do with almost no trading volume in the last weeks. 


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Yatsan on September 24, 2019, 04:08:11 PM
That won't go for too long if they keep printing too much money tho. Like yeah sure dollar is a global reserve thing right now but at the end of the day there is no way dollar could continue to lose value by printing more dollars and then still hope that nations would hold a currency that is constantly losing money on their reserves.

If a country realizes that the dollars they worked hard to save on the reserves worth nothing now, they will start focusing more on Euro and even Yuan if they can just to have a better future on their reserves, if they ever need dollars for something they would change exchange their euro for dollars for that job and then be done with it but not hold it. Hence, dollar needs to hold its value as long as possible .
I believe they are not printing too much money as they already did this 10 years ago, this is from fed's fund to save their country bank's liquidity. If they do some excess printing without telling the international organization they might face a huge problem with international laws. This might be a trap for small investors to make look the market gradually increasing due to the fact that they divided the amount into some smaller amount and inserted to the market. I think they were doing this on great purpose, not just on bank requirements. Something what?


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: matchi2011 on September 24, 2019, 04:10:14 PM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!
The chance of manipulative actions coming from big whales who understand the most from this industry is higher, as they wanted to have more accumulate coins inside their wallets before another huge waves to come forward inside the market. Whales are very good controlling emotions and it's not impossible that most of the current movements are just artificial to create panics and shake the whole industry.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Vishnu.Reang on September 24, 2019, 04:10:50 PM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!

On a positive note, during the past two days the Bitcoin dominance went up from 67.1% to 68.6%, which represents a 1.5% increase in the market share. So I would not say that everything was negative for Bitcoin. Cryptocurrency market as a whole went down due to some reason other than Bakkt, but as far as I can see, Bitcoin held its ground for the most part.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: mersal on September 24, 2019, 04:23:01 PM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!

On a positive note, during the past two days the Bitcoin dominance went up from 67.1% to 68.6%, which represents a 1.5% increase in the market share. So I would not say that everything was negative for Bitcoin. Cryptocurrency market as a whole went down due to some reason other than Bakkt, but as far as I can see, Bitcoin held its ground for the most part.
I don't really consider dominance increase is good for the bitcoin,it can make impact only if the value is considerable but its less now to bring any positive impact on the prices.Like the TA I read earlier the prices keep falling hope it will stuck at some point soon.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: mazdafunsun on September 24, 2019, 06:47:12 PM
You are trying to connect dots which do not connect, FED is printing money all the time.
And as you mentioned the money goes to other investment forms - stocks and bonds , maybe gold. Those big guys dont have easy legal access to BTC.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Reid on September 24, 2019, 10:55:21 PM

Well, without going into too much detail about this, we can see that governments are manipulating the value of your wealth. Bailouts and rescue practices are either hiding the real problems or they are postponing the economic collapse.  ::)

So tax payers money are used to serve as a safety net for greedy financial institutions and the general public are paying for it. The Banks and the Reserve Banks are part of the problem with the fiat system and the government are protecting them.  >:(

So does this mean they did it without noticing people could question what they have done specially those who work in the financial industry?
I mean, it is in plain view and we are discussing it by now or are we just speculating what is happening and doesnt really know the reason behind all this money just getting out?
Or is there really money?

They could hide it if they want to, right?
Who's government want their people looking at how they are manipulating the market specially in United States where almost every adult needs to be invested.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Google+ on September 24, 2019, 11:58:08 PM
when there is that much money I think the price of bitcoin will not be able to fall because with that money many will buy bitcoin and will make bitcoin prices go up, even though the price increase is not long at least the price of bitcoin can go up and can wipe out the sell orders and many can benefit.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: thisappointed on September 25, 2019, 05:25:16 AM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!
Most probably to get more bitcoin at a cheaper price. We all know the halving next year and maybe they are doing this in preparation for the mass adoption. We should not panic at the moment and ride the trend with them, those manipulators are making money and we should do that too so buy more bitcoin when its dip.

I am shocked when I took a look of my portfolio last night, it is all red, and it's kinda depressing cause we are in this bearish market for almost 2 years and it seems like we have to wait a little bit more for the bullish market. Sadly, I sold already some of my coins because I needed the funds, no regrets though. Right now, if you guys have fiat then it is the right time for you to buy bitcoin.

We're hoping to be in $20,000 by the end of the year and I'm really hoping that it would actually happen because that would be a life saver.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Stedsm on September 25, 2019, 05:30:25 AM
@OP, Thanks to the Bakkt launch we're now almost 20% down from where we were a few days before. As to what I saw, more than $45 billion had been wiped out of the markets since its launch and still counting, but it was all a predicted game of big players who were counting on the astonishing dominance of BTC which, when started to pull back, they came to knew that alts are going to take it over for some time and Bitcoin might lose it hard and Bam, it did! This was actually all planned to kill the longs who bought leveraged positions in lieu of Bakkt's launch and what happened, killed their longs so badly liquidating many of those who were over confident over Bakkt. BTC is going to recover, but not so easy this time.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: mersal on September 25, 2019, 05:34:45 AM
Read some prediction article that we are about to break $8500 resistance level soon,anyone feels that the prices will fall this much down even after Bakkt launched?

Or they were manipulating the prices to get bitcoins more cheaper!
Most probably to get more bitcoin at a cheaper price. We all know the halving next year and maybe they are doing this in preparation for the mass adoption. We should not panic at the moment and ride the trend with them, those manipulators are making money and we should do that too so buy more bitcoin when its dip.
But the question is how far it can dip with the current movement,going back $6000 again? Or will stay at $8500 and recover from that.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: 1Referee on September 25, 2019, 08:28:00 AM
@OP, Thanks to the Bakkt launch we're now almost 20% down from where we were a few days before. As to what I saw, more than $45 billion had been wiped out of the markets since its launch and still counting, but it was all a predicted game of big players who were counting on the astonishing dominance of BTC which, when started to pull back, they came to knew that alts are going to take it over for some time and Bitcoin might lose it hard and Bam, it did! This was actually all planned to kill the longs who bought leveraged positions in lieu of Bakkt's launch and what happened, killed their longs so badly liquidating many of those who were over confident over Bakkt. BTC is going to recover, but not so easy this time.

I don't think it's as bad as you think it is. It's somehow hard for people to fathom that the price of Bitcoin isn't based on anything but what we see happen in the charts. There was no 'real' reason for the price to go up from $3000 to $14,000, but there was (still is) way more reason for the price to go down from where it has been hovering around lately. Profits have to be taken.

If you look at Bitcoin's historical performance, we have always pulled back by at least 50% after a major bull run, which we haven't done yet, so this might very well be that 50% pull back that shakes out a lot of people. It's impossible to say where we will bottom out, but it's quite easy to say that we'll be back stronger than ever before. Patience is key here. Slow accumulation is what I will be focusing on.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 25, 2019, 03:23:45 PM
Back on topic guys:

Quote
(Bloomberg) -- New York Fed to boost overnight repo operation limit to $100 billion.


This is the usual ON operations.

Whilst they are going to beef up also the standard 14 days operations:

Quote
*NEW YORK FED TO BOOST THURSDAY TERM REPO OP. LIMIT TO $60B

This time the excuse is the quarter end for corporates. This is usual during quarter end (and above all Year End).

Fillippone is doubtful , and ready to change his mind in front of more evidences of troubles in financial markets.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on September 26, 2019, 09:46:29 AM
Very interesting read, albeit slightly biased for obvious reasons, written by Caitlin Long:

The Real Story Of The Repo Market Meltdown, And What It Means For Bitcoin (https://www.forbes.com/sites/caitlinlong/2019/09/25/the-real-story-of-the-repo-market-meltdown-and-what-it-means-for-bitcoin/#62e649587caa)


Quote
Last week the financial system ran out of cash. It was a modern version of a bank run, and it’s not over yet. Stepping back, it reveals two big things about financial markets: first, US Treasuries are not truly “risk-free” assets, as most consider them to be, and second, big banks are significantly undercapitalized.


Quote
This is the real reason why the repo market periodically seizes up. It’s akin to musical chairs—no one knows how many players will be without a chair until the music stops. Every player knows there aren’t enough chairs. Everyone knows someone will eventually lose.

I do recommend reading the article, but also all the attached links.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on October 03, 2019, 12:49:37 PM
Just an update of the moneyprinting/shadow QE by the FED so far:

Got this data from Bloomberg, that sourced from NY FED:

Quote
U.S. Fed Adds $33.55 Billion in Temporary Reserves (Table)

(Bloomberg) --  Following is a summary of the last 25 operations to the Federal Reserve System’s portfolio as reported by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York. Repurchase agreements and reverse repurchase agreements help influence daily trading in the federal funds market. The central bank’s target rate is 1.75%-2%.

                           Collateral       Type                            
                                 Accepted                  Accepted         
   Date      Total Submitted      Type      Term of Oper.      Treasury      Agency      Mortgage      Treasury      Agency      Mortgage   
   10/03/2019      $33.55       RP      1      $28.00       $0.00       $5.55       $28.00       $0.00       $5.55    
   10/02/2019      $3.05       RRP      1      $3.05       n/a      n/a      $3.05       n/a      n/a   
   10/02/2019      $42.05       RP      1      $35.00       $0.00       $7.05       $35.00       $0.00       $7.05    
   10/01/2019      $2.71       RRP      1      $2.71       n/a      n/a      $2.71       n/a      n/a   
   10/01/2019      $54.85       RP      1      $50.00       $0.10       $4.75       $50.00       $0.10       $4.75    
   09/30/2019      $7.06       RRP      1      $7.06       n/a      n/a      $7.06       n/a      n/a   
   09/30/2019      $63.50       RP      1      $49.75       $0.00       $13.75       $49.75       $0.00       $13.75    
   09/27/2019      $5.33       RRP      1      $5.33       n/a      n/a      $5.33       n/a      n/a   
   09/27/2019      $22.70       RP      1      $14.45       $0.00       $8.25       $14.45       $0.00       $8.25    
   09/27/2019      $49.00       RP      10      $34.55       $0.00       $14.45       $34.55       $0.00       $14.45    
   09/26/2019      $5.18       RRP      1      $5.18       n/a      n/a      $5.18       n/a      n/a   
   09/26/2019      $50.10       RP      1      $34.55       $0.00       $15.55       $34.55       $0.00       $15.55    
   09/26/2019      $60.00       RP      10      $43.00       $0.50       $29.25       $35.75       $0.00       $24.25    
   09/25/2019      $0.13       RRP      1      $0.13       n/a      n/a      $0.13       n/a      n/a   
   09/25/2019      $75.00       RP      1      $56.30       $1.00       $34.65       $44.35       $1.00       $29.65    
   09/24/2019      $0.10       RRP      1      $0.10       n/a      n/a      $0.10       n/a      n/a   
   09/24/2019      $75.00       RP      1      $58.75       $0.60       $20.85       $58.75       $0.36       $15.89    
   09/24/2019      $30.00       RP      10      $36.40       $0.20       $25.40       $22.73       $0.00       $7.27    
   09/23/2019      $7.49       RRP      1      n/a      n/a      n/a      $7.49       n/a      n/a   
   09/23/2019      $65.75       RP      1      $49.70       $0.60       $15.45       $49.70       $0.60       $15.45    
   09/20/2019      $7.55       RRP      1      $7.55       n/a      n/a      $7.55       n/a      n/a   
   09/20/2019      $75.00       RP      1      $59.60       $0.60       $15.35       $59.15       $0.50       $15.35    
   09/19/2019      $5.00       RRP      1      $5.00       n/a      n/a      $5.00       n/a      n/a   
   09/19/2019      $75.00       RP      1      $56.33       $1.40       $26.15       $55.84       $0.00       $19.16    
   09/18/2019      $18.91       RRP      1      $18.91       n/a      n/a      $18.91       n/a      n/a   
                                                            



NOTE: Reserves added in US$ billions. RP = Repurchase Agreement. RRP = Reverse Repurchase Agreement. Term of operation in business days
SOURCE: Federal Reserve Bank of New York

Link to NY FED Website (https://apps.newyorkfed.org/markets/autorates/tomo-results-display?SHOWMORE=TRUE&startDate=01/01/2000&enddate=01/01/2000).

Well,
this is starting to look gross.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: ivakar on October 03, 2019, 01:20:41 PM
Very interesting read, albeit slightly biased for obvious reasons, written by Caitlin Long:

The Real Story Of The Repo Market Meltdown, And What It Means For Bitcoin (https://www.forbes.com/sites/caitlinlong/2019/09/25/the-real-story-of-the-repo-market-meltdown-and-what-it-means-for-bitcoin/#62e649587caa)


Quote
Last week the financial system ran out of cash. It was a modern version of a bank run, and it’s not over yet. Stepping back, it reveals two big things about financial markets: first, US Treasuries are not truly “risk-free” assets, as most consider them to be, and second, big banks are significantly undercapitalized.


this article is rising very interesting question, where all money went? who spent billions!!??
and actually I was thinking that once banks got cheap money from fed they can easily spent it for some assets.. for example for buying some bitcoins... and then the price could go up..
but instead the price went down.. pity


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Btcvilla on October 07, 2019, 08:12:52 AM
Where did you get source with $175 billion to make bitcoin down? Never give your opinion without have correct information and without use link proof, I think bitcoin down because the moment where many people do not take part become investor and still waiting how bitcoin price become higher or become lower.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on October 07, 2019, 08:20:54 AM
Where did you get source with $175 billion to make bitcoin down? Never give your opinion without have correct information and without use link proof, I think bitcoin down because the moment where many people do not take part become investor and still waiting how bitcoin price become higher or become lower.

Links to original statements have been widely reported along all this thread.
I understand you have to make as many posts as possible for your camping, but at least don't  make false statements about users of this thread.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on October 15, 2019, 12:39:11 PM
Just a couple of updates:

Quote
Nothing to see here.

$180 billion added to the Fed's balance sheet in just one month since the repo liquidity crisis started.

Powell says, "In no sense is this QE!"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EG3yRpRVUAAp6XB?format=png&name=900x900
https://twitter.com/crescatkevin/status/1183868665789202432


And a post from your fellow Fillippone (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg52732133#msg52732133) detailing how the various CB's are pumping money into the systems:


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on October 24, 2019, 01:12:02 PM
This repo Crisis is again on the news (as it had ever left the newswires btw):

Fed’s Repo Crisis Bullish for Bitcoin, Hints VanEck Executive (https://www.newsbtc.com/2019/10/24/feds-repo-crisis-bullish-for-bitcoin-hints-vaneck-executive/)


Quote
Exemplifying with a ZeroHedge report, Gurbacks noted how increased liquidity was already pushing the benchmark S&P 500 index higher. The US equities surged dramatically during the Wednesday session, shortly after the Fed – suddenly – announced that it would raise the lending amount to the market from $75nbn to “at least” $120bn daily. The announcement caught market participants off-guard, with a repo trader saying that he did not “see a reason to upsize the overnight operation so substantially.”


it all started with this Tweet:
Quote
> The #Fed to add *$120 billion* liquidity *per day* to repo markets.
> That is a massive 60% increase in the overnight repo liquidity availability (from $75 billion to $120 billion).
> #Bitcoin’s market cap is $135 billion. Think about it for a moment.

Twitter Link (https://twitter.com/gaborgurbacs/status/1187176437729681408?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1187176437729681408&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsbtc.com%2F2019%2F10%2F24%2Ffeds-repo-crisis-bullish-for-bitcoin-hints-vaneck-executive%2F)

again, I think it is littel bit unfair to sum all the O/N operations, but I also reckon this situation has already goone way longer and farther than I initially thought.
So yes, I am now worried, as revealed, imho, a worrisome lack of control and empirism on the short term markets from the FED.
Maybe o_e_l_e_o was right, after all.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: agentx44 on October 24, 2019, 02:02:27 PM
This is really amazing, the Federal Reserve just printed some more toilet paper money and injected it into the financial market and the Bitcoin price takes a 5% nose dive.  ::)

How gullible are the investors that they would be willing to pull money out of their Bitcoin investments to fund investments in the over inflated stock markets.  ::)

I think this is just another Bear trap in the making, because we all know what is going to happen on the 23rd of September, when Bakkt is going live!

Let's stay calm and ride this out, because I am definitely not going to sell my coins to greedy scumbags, who are just into Bitcoin for the quick profits.  >:(

Do you think this is a Bear trap? Let's discuss......  :P
We cannot be decieved by such things. We should take precautions whenevet this instances occurs so that we can protect our investment. It can actually be a bear trap so we should be always mindful with our decisions and always avoid selling your bitcoin just because its value went down. We just need to be patient, things will get better as time passes by, the price will recover soon so we should not be too excited about our profits.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Sithara007 on October 24, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
Bitcoin prices went down this week as well, but it didn't had anything to do with the repo rates or the printing of the banknotes. The spike that we had a few months back (when the prices jumped from $3,000 to $12,000 per coin) was caused by the announcement of Libra. And the crash that happened this week (prices dropped by 10% in one day to $7,400), was also caused by rumors that Libra project would be placed on cold storage. Sadly, as of now Bitcoin is not a mature asset that will be more influenced by the news from central banks, rather than rumors from FaceBook and Visa.



Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: redsun114 on October 27, 2019, 01:18:48 PM
We cannot be decieved by such things. We should take precautions whenevet this instances occurs so that we can protect our investment. It can actually be a bear trap so we should be always mindful with our decisions and always avoid selling your bitcoin just because its value went down. We just need to be patient, things will get better as time passes by, the price will recover soon so we should not be too excited about our profits.
When I see bitcoin price dump, I usually don’t panic myself at all because I will check the market to see that there is no fud news that has made such dump to occur, and in a situation where you don’t see much fud news, we should have already known that this is a whale trap which the thing we should try to do more than is more of purchasing.

I see that people actually have known this, and they will not panic sell anymore and because they have caught the strategy of whales already, this is why they decided to hide under bakkt to crash the price, thinking that majority of us would feel the crash was as a result of bakkt release and start panic selling again rather than buying, but even with that, I still ended up buying more of bitcoin to the best of my financial status.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: kapalmabur on October 27, 2019, 02:31:19 PM
We cannot be decieved by such things. We should take precautions whenevet this instances occurs so that we can protect our investment. It can actually be a bear trap so we should be always mindful with our decisions and always avoid selling your bitcoin just because its value went down. We just need to be patient, things will get better as time passes by, the price will recover soon so we should not be too excited about our profits.
When I see bitcoin price dump, I usually don’t panic myself at all because I will check the market to see that there is no fud news that has made such dump to occur, and in a situation where you don’t see much fud news, we should have already known that this is a whale trap which the thing we should try to do more than is more of purchasing.

I see that people actually have known this, and they will not panic sell anymore and because they have caught the strategy of whales already, this is why they decided to hide under bakkt to crash the price, thinking that majority of us would feel the crash was as a result of bakkt release and start panic selling again rather than buying, but even with that, I still ended up buying more of bitcoin to the best of my financial status.
right now BAAKT shows their volume is increasing, this is good for bitcoin, but not good for altcoin,
I only have a little bitcoin, and a lot of altcoin, if bitcoin still shows signs of bullish then altcoin will go down again and again


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on October 27, 2019, 09:24:02 PM
but I also reckon this situation has already goone way longer and farther than I initially thought.
Agreed. This is very concerning.

As you correctly pointed out back here, the initial excuse from the Fed was to cover quarterly tax payments:
because of a large fiscal payment date is approaching for many corporate in the US.

This date has long since come and gone. And yet, instead of seeing the repo liquidity decrease, it is now massively increasing instead. Why is the shortage getting worse? Has there been any statement from the Fed about why this "definitely-not-quantitative-easing" is necessary, since their original excuse is now invalid?

I stand by the point I made back here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5185879.msg52502611#msg52502611), which seems more accurate the longer this goes on. This is looking more and more like the banks are in serious trouble.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: toast on October 28, 2019, 10:59:57 AM
when there is that much money I think the price of bitcoin will not be able to fall because with that money many will buy bitcoin and will make bitcoin prices go up, even though the price increase is not long at least the price of bitcoin can go up and can wipe out the sell orders and many can benefit.
maybe with the purchase of bitcoin will certainly make the crypto currency will increase it has become the rule but all the possibilities can happen because we know with bad news only the crypto currency can decrease drastically and positive news will also increase the development of crypto currencies in my opinion the development depending on the crypto currency investor


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Vishnu.Reang on October 28, 2019, 11:34:22 AM
right now BAAKT shows their volume is increasing, this is good for bitcoin, but not good for altcoin,
I only have a little bitcoin, and a lot of altcoin, if bitcoin still shows signs of bullish then altcoin will go down again and again

I checked the Bakkt volumes and even now they are far lower than what was expected. There was a lot of hype surrounding Bakkt before its launch and the cold reception it got in the market definitely had a lot of impact on the Bitcoin prices. That said, I am not bothering much about it now. So far this week, we have seen the prices increasing from $7,400 to $9,600, which showed that there are plenty of other triggers which can have a positive impact on the exchange rates.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Serco on October 28, 2019, 11:42:18 AM
right now BAAKT shows their volume is increasing, this is good for bitcoin, but not good for altcoin,
I only have a little bitcoin, and a lot of altcoin, if bitcoin still shows signs of bullish then altcoin will go down again and again

I checked the Bakkt volumes and even now they are far lower than what was expected. There was a lot of hype surrounding Bakkt before its launch and the cold reception it got in the market definitely had a lot of impact on the Bitcoin prices. That said, I am not bothering much about it now. So far this week, we have seen the prices increasing from $7,400 to $9,600, which showed that there are plenty of other triggers which can have a positive impact on the exchange rates.
when BAKKT trade start its not suitable with hope many traders.before it launched , cryptocurrency community so optimism with bitcoin price in future.but unfortunately imagination and fact very different.trading volume growth slowly meanwhile they were institutional investor.maybe it need more time to attract more investors start their investment here.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on November 20, 2019, 08:55:15 PM
Just a little update.
Straight from ZH.


Fed Reveals When The Next Repo Crisis May Strike (https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/fed-reveals-when-next-repo-crisis-may-strike)

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/16/blobdd9ab6a76ee75da4.jpeg


Quote
In discussing the pace of Treasury bill purchases, many participants supported a relatively rapid pace to boost reserve levels quickly, while others supported a more moderate pace of purchases. Participants generally judged that Treasury bill purchases and the associated increase in reserves would, over time, result in a gradual reduction in the need for repo operations.

And here, a passage that could be exactely in o_e_l_e_o interptetation:

Quote
Most participants preferred not to wait until the October 29–30 FOMC meeting to issue a public statement regarding the planned Treasury bill purchases and repo operations. They noted that releasing a statement before the October 29–30 FOMC meeting would help reinforce the point that these actions were technical and not intended to affect the stance of policy. In addition, a few participants remarked that an earlier release would allow the Desk to begin boosting the level of reserves sooner.

A couple of participants, however, wanted to wait until the October 29–30 FOMC meeting to announce the plan so as not to surprise market participants or lead them to infer that the Committee regarded the situation as dire and thus requiring immediate action.




Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: barota on November 23, 2019, 09:31:09 AM
at first I even thought prices would go up directly when usdt was printed at the past from bitfinex ; but now i am sure that effect appear after some weeks at latest or little of months ; if everyone dump his bitcoin the prices will have some obstacle . but i think prices can stable in the future and rise constanly


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: huige007 on November 24, 2019, 05:06:55 PM
at first I even thought prices would go up directly when usdt was printed at the past from bitfinex ; but now i am sure that effect appear after some weeks at latest or little of months ; if everyone dump his bitcoin the prices will have some obstacle . but i think prices can stable in the future and rise constanly
It is normal of digital currencies to face fluctuations and this is what they are famous for. Bitcoin is the most volatile crypto coin that gets affected by every big movement but this does not imply that the coin is losing its value. The halving is not very far from us and we can expect more decrease in values before it. But thins will change drastically afterwards. Bitcoin is going to skyrocket in 2020.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: meliodas on November 25, 2019, 12:20:22 PM
at first I even thought prices would go up directly when usdt was printed at the past from bitfinex ; but now i am sure that effect appear after some weeks at latest or little of months ; if everyone dump his bitcoin the prices will have some obstacle . but i think prices can stable in the future and rise constanly
It is normal of digital currencies to face fluctuations and this is what they are famous for. Bitcoin is the most volatile crypto coin that gets affected by every big movement but this does not imply that the coin is losing its value. The halving is not very far from us and we can expect more decrease in values before it. But thins will change drastically afterwards. Bitcoin is going to skyrocket in 2020.
That is what the most people believed in. They all believed that the price of bitcoin will be awesome in the next year because of halving but you should also remember that you should not risk it all just because of other people's prediction. You should have your own analysis and it should not be influenced by other people. Learn to analyze the market and set take profits and stop losses in order to secure profit and also avoid too much losses.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on November 25, 2019, 01:16:20 PM
-snip-
These overnight repos can't really be called that anymore, since they seem to have turned in to week or even month long repos. As you show, the balance sheet is continuing to increase rapidly, shows no signs of stopping, and the suggestions coming from the Fed are that even more action may be required.

Banks are borrowing more and more money and aren't paying it back like they are supposed to. There's something going on that they aren't telling us, and it's not good.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on November 25, 2019, 01:21:07 PM
-snip-
These overnight repos can't really be called that anymore, since they seem to have turned in to week or even month long repos. As you show, the balance sheet is continuing to increase rapidly, shows no signs of stopping, and the suggestions coming from the Fed are that even more action may be required.

Banks are borrowing more and more money and aren't paying it back like they are supposed to. There's something going on that they aren't telling us, and it's not good.

Stock market need to go higher for a variety of reasons.
Draw the SPX vs the Fed Balance Sheet and you see a very suspicious correlation.
Yes, Correlation is not causation, but here there is a logical link between the thwos.
Hence, QE cannot be stopped.
This is why it is called QE4: 4 stands for "4ever"


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on November 25, 2019, 02:32:34 PM
This is whi it is called QE4:  4 stands for "4ever"
Lol. The Fed's balance sheet has never returned to pre-2008 levels, and we are now seeing the most rapid increases since 2008 as well. Are we sure QE ever stopped? ;)

Still, S&P 500 company earnings and profits are down, and are projected to decrease further this quarter. Production is down, manufacturing is down, growth is down, and yet stocks prices are up, almost exactly matching this "not QE". At this point it doesn't really matter if we are calling it QE or not. It is pushing down bond yields, and so money is flowing elsewhere. One way or another this "not QE" will stop, and when it does, stocks will crash.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Gyfts on November 26, 2019, 05:32:32 AM
The U.S stock market is hitting record highs with the economy booming yet Bitcoin is still not rising. We recovered from the dip yesterday slightly but still down which is surprising given Bitcoin's current state. This uncovers an unfortunate reality that people still are turned off from the idea of investing in Bitcoin and are not using it as an alternative to precious metal investments or stock investments. There are indicators of a recession, albeit not a large one by any stretch of the imagination, yet the economy is still on pace producing record unemployment numbers and stock prices. Even with ALL of this considered, Bitcoin is still down.

I get most of us are playing the long waiting game here, but to the ordinary investor who is dabbling in Bitcoin for the first time, a healthy economy with stocks rising and Bitcoin not rising is a sign to jump ship. 


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: dragon695 on November 26, 2019, 09:47:59 AM
175 billion dollars is peanuts. ;D
Such small amount won't change anything in the US economy or in the global economy.
By the way,the bitcoin price recovered from the 5% nose dive,so I think it's wrong to search for a correlation between the bitcoin price and how many billions were printed by FED.
There's no bear trap and Bakkt won't change anything.
$ 175m is a large number but people often mistakenly think that it was printed to pump the price of bitcoin. This is one of the big mistakes of many people. they can use that USDT to trade with alts or buy or sell exchange rates for more profit. Generally we should not rely on such signals to predict the value of bitcoin, which is completely unreasonable.
3 hours ago, for example, more than 6000 bitcoins were transferred to Okex and Bitfinex but its price remained at a strong support level of $ 7k150 and remained unaffected.
so the conclusion is that the price of bitcoin will be influenced by world news or only influenced by the strong buying or selling force of the crowd.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on November 26, 2019, 09:57:35 AM
There are indicators of a recession, albeit not a large one by any stretch of the imagination
Indications are the next recession will be much worse than 2008. Banks are currently in a much worse position than they were in 2008, there is barely any room to cut interest rates without going negative, and the national debt has skyrocketed meaning any QE package will be limited.

yet the economy is still on pace producing record unemployment numbers and stock prices.
This is a poor way to measure the economy. Sure, unemployment is down, but wages are stagnant and record numbers of people are working two jobs just to make ends meet. As discussed above, stock prices are up because they are being pumped up by the Fed.

healthy economy with stocks rising and Bitcoin not rising is a sign to jump ship. 
The economy is not healthy and bitcoin prices don't follow the economy anyway.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on November 26, 2019, 03:48:13 PM
yet the economy is still on pace producing record unemployment numbers and stock prices.
This is a poor way to measure the economy. Sure, unemployment is down, but wages are stagnant and record numbers of people are working two jobs just to make ends meet. As discussed above, stock prices are up because they are being pumped up by the Fed.
[/quote]

Realising the economy is not the stock market and the unemployment numbers is a feat of thinking into why is daily conveyed via mass media.
Stock market is pumped by QE, and effects are tangible only for those who. An afford to invest into it and are not trickling down toward the real economy.

Unemployment numbers are good, but they fail to intercept the slack labour force (underemployed) or those who drop out the actual labour force the self.

US economy is buying less than 3% GPD growth with massive budget deficits: coupled with QE this is a recipe for disaster when the fiscal stimulus become ineffective.

Why it is working? Because, as a blocks from HSBC told us, “dollar is the best of the bad bunch”: money is continuing to flow into the US economy because the others, in laymen’s terms, are worse.

Brace yourself, this cannot go on forever.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: AniviaBtc on November 26, 2019, 04:16:55 PM
No, I don't think this is a trap. because I see that this is the rule of the financial market. In which markets are beneficial, the whales will usually go there and eat their prey, after the food runs out, it will return to the starting point.
This is also a good signal to buy more bitcoin and hold, it is about to grow again!

But it is very sad that the bitcoin price goes down, it is better if we see bitcoin with a constant and having a higher price. Isn't that beautiful to become more confident about bitcoin without uncertainty? Printing billions of money really affects its price because the demand is getting higher. They seize the moment when the bitcoin is enough for them to made it in fiat. Fiat currency is much able easy to use if they print a lot if it.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: sana54210 on November 27, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
I am not from USA so I am not really as knowledgeable as the rest of you on this subject but considering USA says they are having "the best financial time" since Trump started his term, could we just assume they were basically postponing the bad parts of economy for later and screwing it now?

Obviously, it went down as we can see from the chart, what we are judging right now is the big uptick in the balance sheet but if you look at it since December of last year it has been going down steadily very well and now its going up once again. I don't know which one is better but we can say that whatever has happened has reversed back in the past two months for sure. I hope american economy goes better but not too much better because a strong dollar is good but strongest ever means our currencies devalues.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on November 27, 2019, 10:24:52 AM
I am not from USA so I am not really as knowledgeable as the rest of you on this subject but considering USA says they are having "the best financial time" since Trump started his term, could we just assume they were basically postponing the bad parts of economy for later and screwing it now?

Obviously, it went down as we can see from the chart, what we are judging right now is the big uptick in the balance sheet but if you look at it since December of last year it has been going down steadily very well and now its going up once again. I don't know which one is better but we can say that whatever has happened has reversed back in the past two months for sure. I hope american economy goes better but not too much better because a strong dollar is good but strongest ever means our currencies devalues.

I am not from the USA either, but I think this is exactly what they are doing.
They are screwing up the economy, using printer money to run larger and larger deficit, buying less and less growth and using the wrong metrics (SPX, NAPM jobs reports) to describe the economy, while the "real" underlying economy is in way worst condition.
Dollar is holding because other major currencies (EUR and GBP primarily) have they own problems and they are printing money too.

This is not going to end well. I don't know excactly how and when. But I know bitcoin will be an hedge against it.



Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on November 27, 2019, 01:18:41 PM
but if you look at it since December of last year it has been going down steadily very well and now its going up once again. I don't know which one is better but we can say that whatever has happened has reversed back in the past two months for sure.
If you zoom out it becomes much more stark. Here is the Fed's balance sheet since 2003:
https://www.sott.net/image/s27/542294/full/1_Fed_Balance_sheet_Macro_View.jpg (https://www.sott.net/image/s27/542294/full/1_Fed_Balance_sheet_Macro_View.jpg)

It was only towards the end of 2017 the Fed started to wind down and undo all the extra money they pumped in to the system during the global financial crisis. They had planned to continue on that trajectory for some time, but something they are not telling us about has happened which has forced them to start pumping new money back in. As you can see from the graph below, over the last month we have now seen the largest increase in their balance sheet in over 10 years, since the 2008 crisis.

https://thesoundingline.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Monhtly-Increase-In-Fed-Balance-Sheet.png (https://thesoundingline.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Monhtly-Increase-In-Fed-Balance-Sheet.png)

The last time banks had this much of a liquidity problem, several folded altogether and we spent years picking up the pieces. As fillippone says, this can only end badly, but no one knows when.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: LUCKMCFLY on November 27, 2019, 01:22:06 PM
According to the Fed, they have had proposals to combat the problem of negative interests, but there is no way they can put on makeup, I think it is now clear that they are reaching a point of despair where they will opt for Blockchain and Cryptocurrency technology, Because the debt is extreme, in the USA the debt is maintained, but it is not taken into account because the dollar is handled, and it must be recognized that there is still the hegemony of the dollar, but the numbers do not lie and are increasing the debt much more , it is clear that they must already look for solutions that are not for the normal ones of traditional economy.

In an article I read that in 1980 with 100USD a market with many products was made and that it was enough, nowadays if the market of the same magnitude is made it must be with 2500USD, inflation has somehow made up it by means of many strategies, it is obvious that when cash bills are printed inflation wreaks havoc, with Blockchain and cryptocurrencies this changes, the clearest example is Bitcoin, it has a deflationary economy and a finite supply limit, which obeys the Offer Law -Demand, and its value given to technology has been increasing, is considered digital gold.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: o_e_l_e_o on November 27, 2019, 02:13:55 PM
where they will opt for Blockchain and Cryptocurrency technology
Don't be silly. The Fed is never going to abandon the dollar, something which they can control and print at will, for a decentralized cryptocurrency they have no say over. Doing so would be completely antithetical to their very purpose. The whole point of the Fed is to manage the money supply, stabilize prices, control interest rates and inflation, and so forth. They can't do any of that with a currency they don't control. They might as well close themselves down.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: Yatsan on November 27, 2019, 03:19:06 PM
I am not from USA so I am not really as knowledgeable as the rest of you on this subject but considering USA says they are having "the best financial time" since Trump started his term, could we just assume they were basically postponing the bad parts of economy for later and screwing it now?

Obviously, it went down as we can see from the chart, what we are judging right now is the big uptick in the balance sheet but if you look at it since December of last year it has been going down steadily very well and now its going up once again. I don't know which one is better but we can say that whatever has happened has reversed back in the past two months for sure. I hope american economy goes better but not too much better because a strong dollar is good but strongest ever means our currencies devalues.

I am not from the USA either, but I think this is exactly what they are doing.
They are screwing up the economy, using printer money to run larger and larger deficit, buying less and less growth and using the wrong metrics (SPX, NAPM jobs reports) to describe the economy, while the "real" underlying economy is in way worst condition.
Dollar is holding because other major currencies (EUR and GBP primarily) have they own problems and they are printing money too.

This is not going to end well. I don't know excactly how and when. But I know bitcoin will be an hedge against it.


Would it be a negative towards USD? printing money out of thin air will just weaken the dollar especially on that amount. If feds did really printed those money, injected from the market by buying valuable assets like Bitcoin why did the price go down? putting billion could've significantly affect the price but what happened is opposite. I am very skeptical on what feds are doing now, It coincides with the growing market for BAKKT. I've heard that they supply banks money in a thing that we should know but they refused to, Wall street is borrowing money that seems they are not required to pay. Is this a sign of recession behind?


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: fillippone on February 11, 2020, 05:39:49 PM
Jay Powell testimony in front of the HOUSE comitee today.
A few excerpts about FED REPO's:

Quote
In case you missed the point, Powell calls the Treasury bill purchases “technical” three times in his brief discussion. The point: This is not quantitative easing. It’s a technical move.

Please appreciate the sarcasm rom the reporter.

McHenry asking about balance sheet issues.
Quote
Powell: The expectation is we will continue bill purchases at least into the second quarter and repo activity into April...to build up reserves to a point where we don’t have to do this regularly.

Powell:
Quote
“As the underlying level of reserves rises due to our bill purchases, the need for repo will decline.”

Business as usual, please disperse, nothing to see here.
The reality is , as o_e_l_e_o cynically suggested, is that whatever the FED does, the banks are leaning a little bit too much on the FED liquidity.


Title: Re: $175 billion just printed and the Bitcoin price goes down!
Post by: jostorres on February 13, 2020, 03:31:04 PM
Lol it’s quite funny how y’all hyped this Bakkt so much and at the end it was nothing. The hype was too much in 2019 and a lot of people were even speculating an increase when Bakkt is launched, but at the end it made no single impact. Though I wasn’t surprised, because I knew that there is going to be Halving this year 2020, and I wasn’t expecting any bull run to take place sooner than the halving.

If it’s going to happen, it’s going to be after the Halving and not before it. On the day that Bakkt was launched I heard that it traded only seven Bitcoins. I can already see the price is moving up and after the Halving we should be expecting the next bull run I guess.