Bitcoin Forum

There is an adage that says "if we all knew the outcome of investment then we would all be very rich".
It amazes me when I see investors complaining that the price of a project token dropped after listing and they go on to label the project as scam.
The fact is that they have forgotten the risk part of investment, you can't just expect everything to just come out 100% safe without risk. The price drop is the risky part of it, and you have to be willing to cope with that, support the team and wait for them to turn things around. Remember that it is not a ponzi scheme where your money magically increases over night. Patience is key 

Thanks for sharing your wisdom, people of nowadays want to get rich without giving anything in return, tell me how will they end up been rich when they can't even endure and learn how to get better? there is no short cut to legit success unless you want to take the bad path to achieve your goals, stop expecting things to be easy, thats not real life

You are always going to get people complaining about their losses. These are usually the people that buy in during the FOMO periods and then get rekt shortly after.

Educated traders, analysts and successful investors don't have the time to come on Bitcointalk and start bawling over their losses.

Pro tip: if you come on here and start complaining about losing some cash, you were not qualified to invest in the first place.

Everytime we cannot expect things to go as we predict. There will be changes in between which is common with each and every form of investment. When it comes to cryptocurrency something gets termed to be a scam when the price that dropped low will never get recovered in the long term. This can be based on the lack of development, lack of funding and various other factors. I've come across very few projects that keep on working to retain the potential which is been lost due to some reason. Those will surely profit big in the long term.

Simple as that! You nailed it pal, right from the start every investors should know that crypto investment is risky and they shouldn't complain after things go sideways, they should be expecting that already, want i do know is where there is no risks there will never be enough gain or rewards

The adage that you quoted is true, but I think it's only natural that they say scam because there is a possibility that the project they chose is really a bad project and potentially scam, especially if they invest in projects in 2017/2018 some projects that have experienced all time high destroyed, and maybe the members here have been stuck buying them and holding them back if they say scam to the project that I mean I feel is very reasonable.

Yeah i totally agree and i think that your due diligence and research before investing is the key and once you are satisfied with the project, product and the team then you should invest confidently and then also be patient and let the team develop and deliver before you should take profit.

Agreed, but that's kind of human nature. So it doesn't surprise me in the least. Although to be fair, it's not uncommon for projects to be actual scams here, and although investors should understand the risks, it's not unreasonable to complain when a dev absconds with a pile of cash.

But when folks complain because a new token/coin dumps as soon as it hits the market, especially when there were early investors who bought at like 2-3x less than you, then it's not warranted. That info should have been out there, so they should have understood the risks.

The only part of folks complaining that I find odd and which annoys me somewhat is when certain coins are labeled shitcoins or scams simply because the entire market is down. That never made an ounce of sense to me when referring to decent coins... ETH is a shitcoin,  blah blah. If the entire market is down, I'm not sure what they expected really, it's not an individual coin issue, just a market issue.

No risk no reward, newbies you've been warned, if you can't endure all the pains how will you gain? know that there is possibilities of losing and there is possibilities of wining too, whatever the case might be you should be ready for the worst, good things always takes time

Yes you right, risk is part of the things to bear in mind in any Investment, even also, most teams will add risk assessment in their whitepaper to educate their investors but sadly enough most don't read the whitepaper and will also be quick to say all sorts of things. On the other hand, most times investors can be right too when the team aren't doing anything to assure them they are working; imagine after listing and the team goes mute, no development, I have seen cases like this and it's what leads investors into badmouthing the project they once supported. Some that did ICO last year are yet to list while they keep saying they are working and yet nothing to show for.

The belief of the newbies that if someone invests to a project it means that their money will multiple easily. They don't mitigate and analyze the risk that it has before they invest.

That belief is still there due to the hype that we have seen during 2017. And they don't even analyze the project that they are about to invest, as long as they have heard someone tells that it has the potential, they will invest without hesitation.

Listen, investors won't complain much if they can see a project actually working. And trust me, ceo and team members taking photos at a crypto event is not a sign of a project that is working. Teams cannot be trusted. In fact they dump tokens at will and then go silent when they have lost their way. They will not announce to investors that the project is dead. They will keep silent. Investors will bear the brunt. So let them complain if they see something off or they notice that the team is lagging. Its their money for fucks sake!!!

Newbie investors might think this is a Ponzi scheme, but if it's been a long time in the crypto world, it will need patience to get satisfying results. Not all crypto projects are successful when listing to the stock. For example, when a coin is listed on the current exchange, the price does not go up and does not reach the ICO or IEO price, because the market is not possible. It takes time to develop according to the roadmap. So the key to investment is patience and must be vigilant with the SCAM project so that your money is not wasted.

that's true, but so many investors can't even deal with the risk that they have faced it when the price of token is going drop to the bottom. i don't need to mention shitcoin even a token like gram has been loosing more than 50% from its ico price just in a few days. The price of token will not depend on how big the platform or the name of company and even major company that has already known by so many people are giving very bad performance.
Just try to invest that you afford to lose it and this is what must be remember by crypto investors.

it is true, therefore developers have a plan that they make into a road map as a strategy that they will run, so that the project stays alive and continues to grow.

Those are the thoughts of new people or illusionists about this market. The crypto market with projects with profits tens of hundreds of times is making a lot of people have an unrealistic view of investment.

its easy. don't invest on crypto if you dont want to lose some money. crypto is very volatile. theres no guarantee that the price goes up or down.
just invest what you afford to lose.

It depends on the project and team. First of all, you need to understand about token metrics before invest. Because some projects will be offering a huge bouns in private sale and pre-sale. That means the price will be dumping after releasing that tokens. The team members also dumping their tokens. That's why token metrics are very important. The next thing is the price will be depending on the future update of the project after listing. Then you have to keep in touch with the project updates.

I will only say, do not ever spend money as long as you can not manage financial management properly. high risk investments and you need to be responsible for every decision you make. in crypto no one gets rich quickly, all have their own consequences.

Patient is the key but have we also considered the loses investors face due to the lack of work from the lack of activity or inactivity of project developers. If a project is good it should add value to investors money not to reduce their investment. This isn't ponzi we all know but projects should work to develop their proje t by adding utility.

But we could analyze what is the reason behind the price drop,if the project team doesn't do any development after they sold their token means its scam.But yeah any investment holds the risk of losing our money as well.

i disagree with most things you said here specially the last part. "patience" is not the key, a "good choice" is the key. you can buy dog shit (literary) and sit around patiently waiting for its price to go up! obviously it will never do that. but you can also buy gold (literary) and wait for its price to go up and that could work.

you see, people take their first step wrong and buy that dog shit (figuratively speaking as the tokens are like dog shit) and then they start telling themselves "be patient" as they watch their investment melt away slowly. you can NOT call this "risk", it is a completely expected outcome. when it starts raining you don't say there is a "chance" of ground getting wet! it WILL get wet. and when you buy a shitcoin without any usages, it WILL drop, there is just no other way.

You mean investing in ICO 1-2years ago right?
Mostly investors at the time were looking for quick profits and they forgot to choose a good one.
Indeed, we cannot say that the project is scam only from the price fell, but if the decline is 99% then many will agree to say it is a scam, because developer cannot hold the price of big decline or take anticipate things like this.
Being smart investors is important and don't always think when the trends is IEO then it must be followed, wisely to choose projects that are truly worth investing in.

but is there any "good" ICOs out there that i don't know of? how do you define being good anyways?

over the past couple of years if have witnessed at least a thousand different ICOs come and go and so far i have not even seen a single one that i could call "good".
of course i define good NOT by the profit they give you but by the PRODUCT they give you. and so far all tokens were used to raise funds, get pumped, and die. nothing else.

the question is, why people should  buy on ICO if the price drops so deep after listing? easier to buy during a fall in price. but in this case, people will not invest in ICOs and projects will never be successful. Paradox

This is true even in today's society. People are becoming more and more "impatient". What I mean by that is that people decides too fast instead of doing the proper procedure and they expect too much from it which mostly the reason why they loss so much.

Maybe if the price drops so much, there must be something fishy to it. To be fair, they have the right to call a project a scam if they truly provides evidences to it. 

Of course it is, investments are always a risk and participation in ICOs and IEOs are participation in investments, and not in a ponzi scheme. Of course, every investor would like to make a profit quickly and a lot, but no one should cancel the risk factor. However, we are talking about the likelihood of a risk of losing funds, and apparently we need to say that almost every project now shows negative dynamics, which means that most projects now have a risk of losing money. This is already a bad trend that discourages investors and casts doubt on the ICO and IEO market.

Investors do not expect that the price will be ten times higher of their purchase, they just want developers to update them on the development of the platform and the continuation of the roadmap, they've got the money it's time for these developers to show what they have been doing with the money, the price will eventually recover if others investors see that there are progress in the projects.

About the price drop is not all investor fault if they complain about it, the team and developer fail to keep and stabilize the price. Also for some case the team it self that droping their coin/token to make the price drop.

Not only the risk they should take into consideration but also realize that bitcoin (and any other crypto) wasn't created so they could get rich, that is not the purpose of this at all.

We are talking about a currency and that currency was suppose to be used not something that makes you rich, do you buy dollars to get rich? Unless you are some forex trader then you didn't, that is why I feel like people are misunderstanding what bitcoin is and try to just buy bitcoin and wait and sell it and suddenly they are rich, sure there is that option that you can do but that wasn't the initial purpose of it.

If people just realize that and started using bitcoin instead of holding it, then there would be much more bitcoin going around in the economy which would increase the price anyway.

I'm talking about the revenue not product and many investor gain profit with that WAVES, LISK, ICONOMI thisi only small list.

If the project indicator successful is to launch product, indeed many ICOs fail to implement their product, Investor need profits, not just product.
Every investor has a different opinion about the success of his investment but main thing is certain to provide profits, and how can we say that the product of the project is good if the price of the token is inversely proportional.

yeah the price drop after listing on market it something normal on cryptocurrency, when Doing invest you should know if price drop or even being scam can happend to anyone. As long the project that you invest not scam you just need to support them and there is still chance the price will stable or normal

I know that you are not in cryptocurrency for a long time otherwise you would have spoken differently.
We are fed up with new cryptocurrencies, that only promise a new best blockchain solution for everyday use to attract investors and that´s all.

People are thinking that crypto is the easy money. This is the biggest mistake of crypto investor

Of course, investors are patience they will only lose their patience if the developers are not doing anything, I will give you one example, Bitmillex, and Ironx both exchange just coming out of ICO,  after their crowd sale and distributed the coin, they remain quiet, investors never hear from them, they refuse to give update, if you're an investor what would you do.

as i knew, developer work to develop the project, not to control the price from the project,
because price created by the market mate,,
correct me if i'am wrong

I think something without risk is not an investment. Throughout the course of investment activities there is always a risk that will be present to follow. And I think, people who complain when prices go down are only discourses made.

Patience is very important, without any questions and you always need to take the risks into consideration. But if the chances of taking part in a scam ICO are no less than 50 percent, it may cause a lot of problems.

Exactly. No risky Investment can earn people regular income especially in its early stage.
Besides, people shouldn't invest in what they do not properly understand. Lots of new books have attractive and beautiful covers but usless contents just as bad crypto projects. People should  find time to read the contents of the projects, research what the developers claim their products can do, ask informed & honest Crypto users questions concerning the claim.  Then you can decide whether the product is worth investing in or not.
You also have to consider how the owner plans to increase adoption or attract adequate users. This matter alot in Blockchain-based products.

These are people who want to get rich overnight and are lazy and unrealistic. They share the same mentality many "bounty hunters" do. They probably don't even know what the project is about.
What do people expect when they just throw money at a project? They should not give up. Maybe if the price drops it is a good thing and you just buy more?

Perhaps you need to do more analysis because, in today reality, we have witnessed many projects left by the developers. So what should we call them? Scammers or Ponzi schemes. The road map is not a guide; even patience is no longer an aid to turn things around.

And investors forget that investing in startups is a risky activity. Since 90% of real business closes the same year. So this applies to cryptocurrency. In fact, I understand why they complain. Because the team did not give the product that was announced. But please note that every cryptocurrency startup has secured itself. Most projects do not have an estimated price in the documents. Which means that they don’t promise anything and cannot legally attract them ...

no investor has ever made any profit from any of the ICOs! so by the definition they don't even satisfy the profit that people are seeking. the only profit that these ICOs have ever given those who participate in them is the profit for those who act fast and dump it at the peak of the pump before the projects starts the nose dive.

all have risks including in the field of crypto investment, but the fact that tokens when listing on the exchange, prices go down and die. You cannot conclude that patience is the key! how much patience did you see the situation of this crypto market? for me in the current market situation depends on how skilled you are in the industry. lack of knowledge that makes most people stuck in the wrong place.

No it is not a ponzi scheme. Many fail to understand this simple fact. Those who made millions and billions and crypto today, did so by holding coins like Bitcoin for several years. Some as many as a decade ago. New investors are expecting too much

agree with you, it is very often that projects are good, ideas even can be called great, but implementation is in the wrong way, and whole project goes down the pipe, and people call it scam
does not have to be scam, it could be just bad managed good idea/project

of course, but most of them fail, i mean maybe 90% it will fail, so yeah no wonder they say so.
its not about duration of the process required, but how to choose the right one,because if you choose wrong, you just not waste your money,also your time.
so choosing a project that is really good is its main goal.


yeah, smart investor came to here for information and if they get rekt,they will not complain about the loss they suffered.
winners always know losing is part of winning :D

I believe, too that "Patience is the key" but haven't it too tiring to wait when an investors are trying to wait like forever for that particular coin to pump? Holding is the only choice we have but a wise investor will also reconsider some situations wherein selling in a deficit price but rebuy some potential coins to get back what the losses.

The moment we have joined crypto world, we know for a fact the risk of the market's volatility.

I haven't seen any business that is risk free, if anyone told you that risk free businesses exist it a fat lie, we take risks to have a outcomes, either positive or negative result you won't know until you try, risk takers will always prevail and those who did nothing will always remain in same spot

that is valid, yet such huge numbers of investors can't manage the hazard that they have confronted it when the price of token is going drop to the base. I don't have to specify shitcoin even a token like gram has been loosing over half from its ico price just in a couple of days. The price of token won't rely upon how huge the stage or the name of company and even significant company that has definitely known by such a large number of individuals are giving terrible execution.

price reduction is even far from the price of their ICO I think that is a natural thing. especially if experienced by new projects with markets that are not yet truly large. of course this has a big risk, but if you believe in a good project or in the long run have a good development. it is not impossible that investment can be very profitable. but remember once again even this is very risky.

People are tired of patience already, many have given up on altcoins and they have moved to bitcoin to cut short their lose but i refuse to belief that its the end for altcoins, i know we have many fake and scam projects now but i am willing to take the risks

Impatience is mostly the problem, we just want everything quick and smooth, forgetting that nothing good comes easy, also in crypto before starting, you would be told that there are times when a coin will dip but there will always be recovery period as long as you don't sell out of fear. Every business has it's own risk all you need is how the space operates.

Proof of Stake and Masternode coins are all ponzi schemes.  ICOs are mainly securities.

Yeah patience is the key and sometimes, it is not the team's fault that the price falls. The same greedy investors hear about the project's bounty and airdrop distribution and start bidding low prices to buy from hungry mongers hunters. They bastardize the price to the point of no redemption and it the end put the blame on the teams and bounty hunters when their greed is the major problem.

Well, bounty hunters are to blame again! Understand that you can not affect the price with one percent of the asset. Bounty hunters have no market influence.
Patience - yes, I agree. Really needed here. Both asset holders and project teams.

Old investors already know this scenario it is something has been going for the last 2 years, 90% of the coins are dropping their price when it hit the market, I myself invested on so many coins that dropped their price when it hit the market, this is will be going on until the altcoins season comes.

That's the sad part where people want to be rich overnight. Price ups and downs are a common part of crypto. You have to be used to with it. Without downs, a coin's price won't be stable. Volatile is the nature of crypto. If you can't bear the price down, crypto investment is not for you. Another thing is, after seeing lots of scam project, people are very careful right now, that's why sometimes they feel doubt even on a good project team!

Couldn't put it better. Indeed, it seems like people forgor they are doing it in real life, not in online game (with all respect to games)

i agree on your statement above mate.  Wherein not all project are scam when there's a sudden drop of price after listing, because sometimes there's are some factors that blocking the way to stop the progress of the project  , what i mean reason the team behind  struggling as well how to fix the issue .  So we must understand the situation.  In fact were not just the only one who suffer despite of situation. So let's  be patient and let them fix it before complaining.

The  true  is there many  investor  in the cryptocurrency  space some of them are  short-term investors  those investor are  the  trouble to  the  crypto space.  They  are  making crypto space  looks like a get  rich  quick  scheme or  ponzi scheme.  when ever they  are investing into  project  their  focus  is always on the token not the project,  but without  solid  project the   token  will be worthless. But long-term investor always focus  on the  project  because they  know  the success of the  project  will bring much  value into  the tokens ..

use of returns with previous terms of entrance on field of objective moderation helps as investors to work on decision as releasing use with possession on resource as expecting returns on target to complete within the range of terms with the plan on trading with business on bitcoin finance.

Can you please name at least 5 tokens/ICOs where people have made profit after 1 year of holding? If yes, I would love to know those name! We had thousands of ICOs since 2017 so please let me know at least 5 names!

We all understand the risks of investment. But when over 99% of the projects fail in a certain market, it's good to term it as a scam market! At least we will be able to save some innocent people from being duped!

I am not saying that every ICO project is a scam! Probably they have some really great developers, but certainly no one turned out to be a marketing expert! So even after having great products, a lot of projects fail to pick up! And we are no angel investors with billions of dollars waiting to be distributed!

I am sorry if I am sounding negative but I have millions of dead tokens in my accounts which has no/little value in the market.

Much more important than patience is the amount of effort exerted to get to the bottom of the project one is investing. Sometimes, patience is really not paying off well. Many investors are patient but in the end, instead of gaining a little, everything is lost including the starting investment amount. It is because the project they are investing is really not a fundamentally solid project. They are not offering anything new to the market that is why they did not even last long enough to see their products offered to the bigger public. Those investors who are constantly crying and accusing projects as scam are the ones who did not do their share of digging.

Strongly agree with this thread, every project that has just finished the ICO / IEO period then they need support from us so that the team is able to make the project a decent and feasible project, because the benefits are not obtained instantly, but need a process, if without the development process then that is the Ponzi project.

Not quite sure what you are saying over here. How are you comparing the investment and ponzi scheme (like calling it not a ponzi scheme which actually isn't). Even in ponzi scheme you don't get rich over night. There is a chance you will lose all your money to that scheme if you join in alte.
To be honest, people are expecting to become rich over night because this is what they have heard back in 2016/2017. They started to invest in ICO because they saw people making mad profit by investing in those tokens. What they don't realize is that the number of people investing back then was small compared to the number of people that are joining the project. More people are joining those bounty programs and receiving tokens without investment and dumping it as soon as it gets listed on an exchange thus causing the price to drop.

Most people came with the mindset of Ponzi, which is get rich quick as soon as possible, which is why whenever they participate in any project and it takes time to list, they will start complaining. Also, when they invest and the project gets listed and at a lower price they are always quick to judge; this is the reason I hardly tell people which projects to invest but I will be quick to educate the person on the risks involved, thereby having it in mind that patience is needed they will be wise with their Investment choices.

I really like your points here, most people see crypto as a get rich quick scheme. Most times the market decides whether prices of coins soar or dump after listing, although some team members do dump hence causing massive dip for their coin.  We just need to be patient, especially when we believe in the project. Sometimes after dumping when price of a coin goes down, people who buy the dip will rejoice later when it pumps. Investment involves risk, hence we should know our limits of risk taking before delving in.   

Actually I don't blame those that have called bitcoin different names all in the name not make profit from their investment. Understanding the rudiments of the game matters a lot, many of these investors jumped into the world of cryptocurrency during the fomo and have not see their yielded profit as speculated. Remember that, 2017 was the best year till now, those who bought then and keep are likely to be those who will complain.

Investment management needs to be proficient in terms of controlling your emotions towards your actions. Many traders and investors forgot about how to deal with risks. Knowing all the grounds of your investment assets, you'll be able to act according to how you will take advantage.

Never be moved by falling market if you have good understanding of the project's future developments. Stay calm and patiently monitor the progress.

You said the truth the way it is, the fact is most people are yet to understand the nature of the crypto space thus likening it to Ponzi; this is quite true because in time past there were Ponzi schemes ran with cryptocurrencies so most still thinks thats how this space is meant to be. It's high time investors understands that in this crypto space there are various factors which affects price, now if a project is solid, it might dump after listing but will surly pick up as time goes on and this is where the patience of the investors is needed. Anyone who has issues with being patient should stay away from investing and maybe stick to trading.

fro the beginning i came here, i never think if this industry is a ponzi scheme my friend
but, maybe some crypto project use a marketing plan from a ponzi scheme, thats why few people will said if this industry just like a ponzi scheme
anyway,  you talk about people must support the team and wait, but you must remember people should knew if the team is a good person and want to develop their project seriously mate
so, if the team didn't want to build their project, then what for ? there is no reason to support them and wait with patience buddy

Gone are the days that you would invest in a coin and within few hours, that will be a tremendous level of growth. Which happened during the bullish trend. Although, it is also being experienced at some points, even in bear market, but that might not continue all through, because there might be a correction. Meanwhile, it is better to ensure you are investing in a project with viable products, before expecting anything meaningful.

Most find it difficult to cope with their emotions when large amounts of money are at stake. But I agree that anyone who takes this step and do investments in the project, should understand that he risks. And thanks to understanding and patience, he will be rewarded in the future.

usually people who are just starting an investment and are also just getting into crypto, so maybe they hear or see an investment in people succeed.
so he joined the investment without doing research first. Finally they entered and don't even know about the project yet, just buy it because other people buy it too, and joined ico scam. But at least it will teach you a lesson.

This is a fact, people want ROI immediately which is wrong ,for you to succeed you need to have patience and wait for what you have invested grow, it could take days - months but it's sure there will be ROI.

The basic truth is that, people don't really understand what is meant by investment.  A lot of them are just interested in the assumed profits calculated from the ICO or IEO price forgetting that the market price is most likely drop . These kinda investors don't have enough knowledge about investment and the principles of investment.

People who think that they just have to wait for a coin to be listed and if it increases in value then it is only not a scam. If it drops it is a scam. They want it to instantly yield results.
It has to grow and the project is just been born so be patient. Why is the drop in price a bad thing? Why not take advantage of it by buying in even more? Then the slightest rise will be a big profit since you be able to buy many more times the amount of coins.

You see people only think like a Bull but never a bear.

I support your opinion, people should know what they’re buying and they must change their mindset of becoming instant millionaires. I understand some projects that its not easy on their part to manage the business and every decision is important. It doesn’t mean that the prices fall the project fails, market prices don’t reflect the project status.

Don't you even watch the market right now? Almost all of the people are investing in crypto right now are short term speculators. that means what they are looking for to get a lot of ROI for their investment as fast as possible. Patience is not always the answer and have yous seen those long term holders who have been losing a lot of money? It can be a good thing to be learned.

It's almost useless to talk about this, people are people, let them do what they want and believe in what the want to believe. Better use this knowledge to get rich while everyone around is whining :)