Bitcoin Forum

You know the drill. When Bitcoin rallies hard, altcoins dump. When Bitcoin dumps, all the rest dumps too. But when Bitcoin is sideways, altcoins rally and some go their own price action.

Everyone in this subsection of Bitcointalk is waiting for altcoin season to come again. Some have already given up.

I will try to post my observations about the market relationship of Ethereum which is the current lead indicator of altcoin market health to Bitcoin's.

ETH has been struggling to maintain its price against all odds, that's a good sign.  Today I added 4 more ETH to my portfolio hoping it gives me some gains in future. Generally altcoins are not really doing well, we just have to keep holding coins we see some development progress in their project and hope for the best. If it was before, when BTC drops, ETH will drop drastically but right now it's amazing to see otherwise.

Ethereum and some other coins are really struggling hard enough to maintain their prices against the BTC if not break a little from it I think is actually going to take sometime before it happen but is like to be less dependent on BTC in the future for now let hope it keeps up the resistance

This just explains that most altcoins are following the trend of Bitcoin especially the top altcoins. Unlike before where whales would switch from Bitcoin to altcoin and altcoin to Bitcoin but that day was over. They find it hard to manipulate the market in the long run because everyone know the drill.

Gonna wait for your observation about the relationship of ethereum and bitcoin.

It's been known that alts were just following the move of bitcoin. But bitcoin, it doesn't follow any trend of these alts. Right that everybody is already aware of these things and if someone gets surprised by these action, he might be new to this.

I am curious for more about your observation about ethereum and bitcoin as I see bitcoin and ethereum are started to increase. Bitcoin trying to break more and now the price reaches $8250 so it could slowly reach $8300 in this day. Ethereum itself follows to increase while the other altcoin was observed following to increase. I wonder this could be a short bull run that happens in October or it's the real bull run that trying to show up and give hope to us.

I also see the markets and observe the trend mostly everyday, Bitcoin dumped this past several days but we are now in quarter 4 and many of us are expecting to climb it again and slowly recovers. Common observations are facts, most alt coin prices goes down when bitcoins is in red and negative but when BTC gains, most alt coins doesn't follow and stick on their current prices then after few days, you can see that it continues on dropping...

I think there were several instances in the past when a bull run is happening to most of them, Bitcoin and Ethereum, and others altcoins. Although most of the time, when Bitcoin is very bullish, it is normal for altcoin holders to dump their altcoins and shift to Bitcoin.

The charts at this very minute look pretty. After sideways, there is a little rising movement, with Ethereum gaining almost 6%. I hope it will reach a double digit increase before hitting a little correction.

Hope you keep this thread updated, but also know that the price action doesn't always follow the trends you mentioned. The more important factor to look at will be relevant news and rumors. These affect coin value, be it bitcoin or altcoin, before anything else.

If there are no rumors or news about a coin, thats when it makes more sense to rely on trends.

This market is clearly manipulated and investors are the ones who will be hardest hit if they do not have good knowledge in the crypto market. During the past few days, the market has continuously experienced large declines and that made investors psychology become more panic. I think that if there is no way to overcome this, the market will continue to go through difficult times and it will be very difficult for us to make good profits.

I see more fear in ETH then in a long time in and it has started to rise in btc, which is a great sign. I think that on the next bullrun there will be once again hindsight people that consider everyone who bought here "lucky" and that this would have been an obvious place to buy. But naturally those people are not buying now.

Well, this short-term growth lasts only less than a month. I would not be in a hurry to hope for the beginning of the growth of Ethereum. Although I agree, this is a great sign.

This is not entirely true. Just having more money in the Bitcoin market cap would make it possible to invest that money into altcoins. When Bitcoin is down, the alts do go up a bit. Just not as much as Bitcoin. The thing is, Bitcoin is worth more USD during that time, so it doesn't look like much of a plus percentage of Bitcoin gains, but they are there. Just go look at almost any chart, the last all time highs for just about everything was during the last big rally.

We all know that the market depends on BTC but as you said, altcoins did not move even when the BTC increased, sometimes we saw green colors in the last 3-4 months but they were very small increases. Honestly I do not know when altcoins are going to be positive again. However it is clear that this path passes through BTC and so it would make sense to wait for the increase of BTC.

It's definitely not always a given.

During the last bull run, when bitcoin rallied, altcoins rallied even harder. And when bitcoin dumped, altcoins dumped harder. Essentially altcoins were a magnifier of what bitcoin was doing.

But right now, ETH has generally been dumped regardless of whether or not BTC is moving upwards or downwards. That is historically not something that has occurred very often. I do think that the current rally in ETH/BTC will continue, potentially breaching 0.03 BTC. 0.022 BTC is still quite low in terms of historical averages.

For me I think Altcoins have chance to rally now especially after the disappointment performance of Bakkt launch which resulted in price dumped, now there is no strong fundamentals to make me bullish of BTC until the turn of the year when the hype of halving will start and people will start factoring it into the price. Altcoins have chance to rally now, Ethereum will lead the park IMO

That's hypes is missing yet and the market struggling hard by now.
But it has to believe that the market will still have hopes and could survive from this crisis. Not actually we could see an instant transformation but I like to see it recovering slowly. For we can't see the bull run this year but we're too positive to have it again next year when halving start.

I think the market has returned to the normal cycle. Bitcoin will continue to guide the alts again and no more the opposite as you say.
I think that the altcoins season is also coming, the market has had sad red days, now it is time for the market to be pumped back, I predict it will be before Christmas days. :D

Altcoin season, sounds very promising and profitable if it comes again, but when will it be repeated again? Can it? indeed Bitcoin is still an indicator that is connected to the movement of Alts and many people still hope that halving will come to trigger Bitcoin rallies hard and bring the Altcoin season.

I'm excited to wait for your observations here.

We want to see again the value of the bitcoin will rised as my observations last night when bitcoin down or up ethereum follow it.
I guess it depends on the situation because they have a time that ethereum down while the bbitcoin will rise while fhe rest of the altcoins is also up or down. They many speculation the price of the altcoins that are base on the movements of the bitcoin which I beliebe it before but now I don't think so.

The relationship between BTC and alts have always been complicated and difficult. There are people who believe in technical analysis of BTC dominance; go check that chart in tradingview and see how much fluctuation happened in that chart.

Recently, it has been altcoin dump regardless of what BTC does. But I hope for a day in which alts rise regardless of what BTC does.

One big problem with ETH and other alts is maintaining value. Bitcoin movement doesn't very much correlate with them. We have seen alts losing a whole lot of value just because Bitcoin dipped a few percent, but unfortunately, this same scenario doesn't very much apply when Bitcoin goes the other way. Judging from ETH all time high, it has really went a lot down and doesn't seem to be getting back there anytime soon.

Altcoins will soon be on the rise and the pioneer of this rise will be coins like xrp, eth, xlm.
I've been telling this everywhere for 1 week. As we have seen today, altcoins are no longer affected by bitcoin movements. On the contrary, altcoins are moving along with bitcoin. Ethereum rises with bitcoin and this is a good sign. Dominance of bitcoin in the market will continue to fall, soon everything will be very nice. This is not an investment advice

unfortunately there aren't any different relationship between bitcoin price and ethereum. this altcoin like any other altcoins is first moving up and down based on its own pump and dumps and second is taking effect from bitcoin price rises and falls (on both cases it drops hard). so if you want to speculate about its price, like any other altcoin, you have to speculate about its pumps. and since currently we have no reason to see any pumps coming and the owners also are not showing any kind of willingness to pump it, i don't see any rises coming any time soon.

For me I agreed, I think if bitcoin show again the unlimited potential of this it can affect the whole cryptoworld but some how, on last previews month bitcoin pumps while the other altcoins are not.

Ethereum hasn't shown any individual brilliance from quite a long time. What was last time when ETH individually gained 20-30% while others hovered by just 4-5%? I think it was way back in early 2018. Since then, ETH mostly dumped. If we talk about this year, only Litecoin showed some individual brilliance lately. It went all way down to $30 from $250 last year but recovered and went as high as $150 in July. So even if other altcoins are almost out of individual rallies, I still have faith in Litecoin.

This is called buying blood on the streets, even your own blood strategy.


Because back way before, there were no stablecoins. Now stablecoins enable direct trading of altcoins by pairing with a more stable pair like USD. Pairing with Bitcoin is not a true measure of the altcoin's worth because BTC price fluctuates hard.

 
Because more people think the bear markets are not yet over and that the market just bounced back to cancel out the hard dumping, but the general trend still remains bearish.


Not according to the charts.


You are wrong there. Altcoins dump because people believe that crypto is over. Alts would never rise on its own, it needs the whole crypto industry to become bullish again - the malaise is industry wide.

Sometimes I take a trade on Bitcoin based off the Ethusd charts. If you look at the recent hourly charts you can see that ETH had better price action than did BTC.

In general these 2 usually travel the same especially against their fiat pairs. But there are many times when one is moving whether up or down and the other is trading sideways.

There are also times when BTC can be trading sideways and the alts like ETH can rally. This is not always bullish because it means that people are selling their BTC and getting into alt coins, this is what happened actually right before $9000 broke and we headed into $7700.

Its no different than BTC rallying and alt coins trading flat but their ratios are getting hammered, that meant that people were selling their alts and buying BTC.

I think these are all lagging indicators and don't always provide the full picture.

nice thread, by discuss a price action relations between ethereum to bitcoin
but, remember ethereum is not the leading indicator of altcoin market health to bitcoin my friend
because altcoin world is very complicated buddy,, sometimes eth price down harder than the other alts when bitcoin growing, and vice versa
and maybe altseason will not coming in this year, but next year
regards

The key thing for me I think is market confidence. Alts only surge when confidence is really high, such as the back end of 2017. If confidence is lower, then people hedge their bets and buy BTC as the safest and least volatile crypto. The long bear market may have ebnded, but it still casts a long shadow in terms of the effect on investor confidence. It may be some time before confidence returns to really high levels and creates an alt surge. But BTC price impacts this, too. As BTC price goes up, confidence grows, and the higher it goes the more the alts look undervalued and more of a bargain. So I think an alt surge is largely confidence-driven, but BTC price is the main thing that impacts this confidence level.

This has been the trend for long years now and I am still thinking why people here seems to be always new to this,or maybe most of them are newbie in investing?
Weak hands always do we can’t take it as investors,most of them are here for fast income
Looking forward mate ,as I am one who’s waiting for alts to grow so I can buy another sets in future.

That is what happens in the crypto market. Bitcoin is controlling the market, so when bitcoin dumps, most of the altcoin dumps too. But we will have a chance to see bitcoin and altcoin rally side by side in the next bull run, and that will make the price will increase. Related to ethereum, I think ethereum still trying to reach the higher price but with the bitcoin price is up and down, I think it's hard for ethereum to make another higher price. Maybe after bitcoin can break more than $10k and sideways, the altcoin especially ethereum, will get the chance to rally.

If the price situation depends directly on the level of confidence, then we only need to wait until the level of confidence is very large. I think that in 2 years the situation will definitely change for the better.

When people looking for rise in bitcoin price to invest on any other crypto then how other coins have its own price movement?

IMO,the price increase of altcoins when the bitcoin is in sideways most often due to manipulation.

I guess they buy bitcoin more than any coin.

It is. Just compare it to altcoin market dominance and the total marketcap of all coins. Looking at my Twitter feed if Bitcoin is up and ETH is also up, I know when I check my altbags most are green too.


That's why some Twitter influencers believe that altcoins will only rise after Bitcoin breaks ATH.



New market participants always come and go. Lately the situation is most have left.

two years might be long for others but hell yeah this time is needed to recover such a long bear market that happen .

If you are referring ti the bear market turn around, I think we are almost into two years now. For me I believe what will change all these is when most if not all these scam ICOs got delisted from most exchange that is when life will return to Altcoins.

Things are somewhat looking good for Ethereum. The price is again above the support levels of the Ichimoku cloud (bullish) since June 6, 2019. And the daily chart shows an ascending triangle forming (also bullish). It might better to have ETH rather BTC now.

https://i.imgur.com/YZem72M.png

I believe Ethereum price action to be independent of Bitcoin's value. While it is true that most other altcoins follow the trend, Ethereum is a beast (sometimes) of it's own. We've seen this previously when ETH value soard to $1400 and we will probably see it again when the promised glories of ETH 2.0 and proof-of-stake becomes realized. The problem now really is a matter of time, when will ETH devs delivery on their promises?

And that things also happen before ,when the price hits 1000$ ATH it takes more year before they make a new ATH . I heard that when the BTC hits 1k$ before is manipulated by chinese investors thats why its hard to the price to be back.

Yes, the triangle is promising. And the result of your oeuvre :) on the chart also inspires hope.
But it should be understood that this may be just one of the corrections in the downtrend vs BTC.

indeed ethereum price movements depend on bitcoin price movements, when bitcoin prices rise then ethereum prices will also certainly rise, but sometimes not only from bitcoin but from developments and good news from ethereum can also have an effect on ethereum prices.

The recent Bakkt incident has left the market in the red sea.  But perhaps ETH remained strong, with little volatility as a top altcoin.  ETH 2.0 will be issued and that will create the premise to push the price of ETH up

I strongly don't think so. Bitcoin is the daddy and command 60% dominance, traders will always flock to the coin with the most liquidity. But in a bull market, traders spread out as the markets expand.


Could be. That's why the arrowed line stops around 0.03btc.

It looks quite difficult to get into that phase again, now we can see where BTC dominance is already very large in the market, I think ALT season will come when BTC dominance decreases maybe in the range of 50%, so you can estimate if BTC dominance decreases meaning ALT season will appear soon.

< 50% would be a good indication that alt is slowly getting back and investors are coming in the market again. But if you look at the dominance today, alt are still suffering and bitcoin is still as strong as ever. There were times that it crosses 70%, as and far as I can remember that's the biggest dominance we have ever since in recent years.

As far as the price of Ethereum goes, the charts look solid and it could be a good indication that at least reaching $200-$300 at the end of the year is possible. So let's see how it goes, I'm seeing green today and hope that it will continue to at least touch base $200 in the next coming weeks or before the end of the month.

50%? By that time, you have already seen several 10x altcoin mewns by then. The key here is determining when the journey from 67% to 50% Bitcoin dominance starts. That is always the goal of trading - predicting/anticipating when a trend reversal happens.

That is truly correct mate and that is part of reality we need to accept altcoins are always affected if bitcoin as goes dump in the market cap, sadly if bitcoin are goes up altcoins are too long time to waking up again their value to recovery.  For the ethereum I believe if the bitcoin are goes start to rising into the market I beleive ethereum follow to increase their price, vpbut of course is deoend to the market volumes.

It is because Bitcoin is the most popular cryptocurrency. In fact, many people still don't know other cryptocurrencies exist. They first only know there is Bitcoin which is magic internet money to them. Second, they know it is a cryptocurrency. And the awareness stops there. So traders will always flock to the safest coin in bad times.

I agree with this. It's a fact that when we say cryptocurrency to them, they only know that it's none other than bitcoin. And another thing, if we say blockchain, they'll only think about bitcoin as well.
Wise investors like to get into a safe haven and bitcoin is the proper coin for that.

This is much known reality with the cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is the base, as well as the one that has got proven record on growth. Following bitcoin we've got lot many cryptocurrencies, and very few have reached a level competing with bitcoin. Maybe the newcomers doesn't know it. Ethereum is the one to give competence, but now this is down and it can be the right time for buying as the price will pump high along with bitcoin.

They are newcomers so basically they don't understand the competition and rough market with altcoins. It's okay if they do know bitcoin as the very cryptocurrency that they are investing. It's a good start to them unlike some newbies that were introduced to the market through altcoins that were totally no value. Ethereum is down if you will treat it like as it was always on the top of altcoins or if you're still staying on its all time high price.

This is my favorite pair to follow, i think it's going to be psychologically important. I was predicting (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5185052.0) more of eth declining in the past before the rally. But i would love to see your take on this as well when ever you are ready.

Anyone on this thread who is more interested in usd pairings of alts: Pay attention, eth vs btc pairing is far more important then eth vs usd.

I apologize, but for some reason it seemed to me that the best pairs to trade are Bitcoin - USDT and ETH - USDT, because if you take into account the moment that Bitcoin and Ethereum in the future will simultaneously fluctuate in price with the same indicators, then this is the choice for  me is better than BTC - ETH.

The bolded part is actually what I used to think while reading/hearing about Bitcoin & using it back then as newbie. When i dived in deeper I discovered I was using another cryptocurrency aside Bitcoin and cryptocurrency was much more than that.
So Bitcoin is basically the first cryptocurrency. It will be seen as the only cryptocurrency by non-crypto users who don't know much about cryptocurrency.

The shit coins in the market are already dead and there is no way that they will recover from the shit storm that hit the market, the top exchanges usually delist coins that are not having any volume and only shady exchanges keeps these shit coins. The bear market in the altcoin market is not showing any sign of moving up but the top coins in the market usually rises when the bitcoin market rallies.

Just because eth-usd is reacting to btc-usd price doesn't mean at all that their marketcap would both rise at the same speed. Being "up in usd" used to be a joke between traders who had sold their btc for alts for smaller gains then that they would have made for just hodling btc.

But just to be sure, can you point me to the indicators you were looking at?

Experts agree that the price of Bitcoin has a direct impact on the value of other altcoins and Ethereum is one of them. To verify this, just look at two graphs of the exchange rate - for Bitcoin and Ethereum. The most significant is 2017 when there was a sharp increase in the price of many virtual coins. So, a significant increase in Bitcoin has been observed since the middle of summer, and the price peak peaked in December 2017, when the price reached the mark of 20 thousand dollars.

It would be great if you could explain about the potential of ETH and if you think that the price of ETH will challenge the price of bitcoin, then you are dreaming. There was a time in the past when some people thought that ETH will over take the price of bitcoin when ETH started its rally and it was really close when all the token projects started appearing in the market, now there is no way ETH is catching up with bitcoin.

Ethereum has been outperforming bitcoin for at least two weeks, however it seems this is changing so I wonder if it is such a good idea to invest in ethereum at the moment, the market does not seem to be trending in any direction, it is just roaming aimlessly, so I will not really blame if investors began moving back to fiat or stable coins since the bull market seems to be over, I know some are still hoping for a bull movement at the end of the year but I do not see any desire for investors to do so.

Do you really think that Bitcoin is ready to let its dominance go for now, I really don't think so, and I don't see much reason why we should be relying on Bitcoin dominance for these coins to increase in value, I think that they all have their own different use case which many of them he even claimed in the past that they have a more useful platforms than that if Bitcoin.

Ethereum is still a good project and I don't think they really need Bitcoin dominance to reduce for them to really increase if they mean business like they meant it in 2017 when they made their platform conducive for both investors and developers to use, but the platform they currently have has become a living shadow really as investors are no longer finding it attractive.

Yes. That sound right. For now, bitcoin has too much dominance over market. Altcoins haven't given big returns from last 1 year or so that's why, investors are investing in altcoins less and moving towards bitcoin completely. Size of their portfolio is decreasing and becoming homogeneous with bitcoin. Only if bitcoin decreases too much or alts rise too much when people's interest will transfer towards alts again.

Bitcoin has decreased quite a bit, but it took altcoins down with it, and that while people were strongly of believe that the moment Bitcoin's momentum would weaken, altcoins would boom hard but thus far they haven't.

I haven't seen much of an indication that altcoins are going to explode any time soon---the dumb fomo retail money is what made it pop hard and they are still not willing to come back because they are licking their wounds.

I expect Bitcoin to fall deep under the $8k mark in the coming weeks, which I believe will hurt altcoins too. I would rather wait for an altcoin season as confirmation than to jump in right now and lose more value.

Majority believes altcoins are just for selling. Majority believes scam ICOs caused ETH decline. However in all markets, legacy or crypto, in all history, the majority usually gets it wrong. It is the contrarians who usually gets the market.

People are always the most bullish at all-time high price and most bearish at the all time low price.

That's emotional trading but for people who knows how to work with the market it's not that always to follow the trends, it's your knowledge that will
place you to the right directions, it's understandable to use your term "Most" since it's influential when Fuds start to shake the market and Fomo's begin
to rush things out to take their position afraid to lose opportunities.  Assess and manage accordingly the market needs to observe before taking your side.

Speaking of prize hunters in my opinion there are many reasons why they sell cheap. the main reason is that prices have gone down before the prize hunters get their prizes and in my opinion this cannot be a reason for people to blame that the bounty is the cause of the current price drop

if your mean is BTC pair, then it's right. but if your mean is USD pair then it's wrong
USD pair has straight correlation with bitcoin, when bitcoin up alts up, vice viersa
that's why many trader take advantage to trade USD pair when BTC pump

Yeah sure, but now things work differently. One of a sudden ETH falls in both cases and it does not matter if BTC is raising or falling. This is happening because of the lack of interest and lack of updates from team members.

Exactly, this is common sense, some people want the altcoin market to go up, but from an investor point of view what it is the point of investing in something when it is clear that altcoins have not been profitable for a long time, most investors are either moving to bitcoin or to fiat and it makes sense, if altcoins want to shine again then they need to offer something that bitcoin does not and since that has not been the case this explains why altcoins are not really getting any interest from investors.

Your statements reflect the despondency or depression phase of this overused yet still relevant chart of market emotions. Now is the best time to buy altcoins, buy your own blood as Rothschild said. The fundamentals from a neutral point of view hasn't changed.


https://wdongli.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/cycle_of_market_emotions_page_1.jpg

indeed all cryptocurrency and altcoin I see have a relationship related to the price they have because in exchange places usually bitcoin price movements can affect other coins, but it doesn't hurt if you have several ethereum that you can save to look for profit from ethereum .

He never said Ethereum will challenge the price of bitcoin,don’t put words into he’s mouth lol
What he said is the price of the said coins will connect with bitcoin and that’s too different from challenging .

And I think what he said is true because ethereum  at many points is staying in the top 2 position(though bitcoin cash (BCH) did took the position couple of times before) and this is the main reason why supporters keep on trusting ethereum even many also called this as shitcoin

If you think normal most of the peoples are want profit and some peoples are invest stable coins also so we always concentrate the profitable investment and Ethereum is one of the best altcoin in crypto market. May be you are not active in currently because Bitcoin and Ethereum both are moving same line.

Guys, we are getting off-topic a bit here. We are discussing Ethereum price movement in relation to Bitcoin price movement because ETH represents the whole altcoin space while Bitcoin is the leading crypto thus it becomes the default index of all.

What do you mean by this, the update that vitalikbuterin and co has been giving about their project over time, what do we call that, and the work they are currently doing to upgrade Ethereum which has led to them proposing to release Ethereum 2.0 by next year, what do we also call that, so why would you say that the team are not giving update or they lack interest in the project.

They are not really the cause of what is happening to the ICO market generally, even if they upgrade their platform next year to 2.0. I still do not see how that will affect their growth except the general bear market is over, and the main thing that is causing bear market generally is because of people's personal lack of interest in altcoins as they don’t use to bring profit as much as they do in the past and I must tell you that what most people here are really after is not the technology of these coins but their money.

The movements of all altcoins are affected by bitcoin movements ethereum is no exception. As long as the bitcoin price is still going up and down it will be difficult for ethereum, because ethereum has tried to increase its price a few times always fail. This makes it clear that the movement of ethereum still depends on bitcoin, many who are waiting for ethereum can head ATH later this year. But I am not sure that the end of the year will be reached, because the current ethereum price is still on the market very low. But we must not be pessimistic in this matter, it doesn't matter if this year's target sell has not been achieved. There are still 2020 where there are many events for cryptocurrency that could possibly drive ethereum prices.

There was a breakout but it didn't follow through. I suspect it is because of Bitcoin crashing again. So now the the daily candlestick is a doji after 6 days of gradual price decline. The price is still testing support levels at 0.0216btc. Any day now.

https://i.imgur.com/D2v9wZq.png

predictions for the development of crypto or altcoin currencies cannot be ascertained and currently bitcoin is the highest price guideline than any other coin. every investor's confidence and patience is the capital needed in investing with ETH for now that is experiencing a decline in value and my price remains patient in the future it will definitely develop even more rapidly

That is some post you have there.  ??? Predictions are just educated guesses, no one can see the future. But educated guesses are better than just blindly buying or selling. Crypto is still nascent and has a lot of growth left  because not a single coin is suited for the masses yet.

So ETHBTC crashed.

https://i.imgur.com/oYFbSfM.png


I guess it is not yet altcoin season. Although Ethereum in USD gained twenty dollars. I think it is still Bitcoin's game where we will be seeing more Bitcoin-focused trading for several weeks more.

Actually BTCitcoin is still able to predict its price because there are indicators in the market that we can analyze. all altcoin can be predicted but valid or certainty sometimes it is indeed not appropriate. factors such as news making sometimes have quite a big effect. like yesterday when the bitcoin price shock due to the news made the indicator unable to make such predictions

the development of crypto or altcoin currency no one can know with certainty indeed until now bitcoin is still a guideline of all crypto or even altcoin but technically the development of altcoin is not affected by bitcoin because in my opinion the development of crypto currencies depends on the investors themselves

Yes, yes...it has been said many times over in so many different ways. I applaud how the posts above can describe one idea with different word arrangements. Ethereum, along with the rest of the altcoin space will wait until Bitcoin makes a move.

Bitcoin dominance is too strong and has now reached more than 65% of all crypto transactions, of course this is a bad thing because more than 4000 coins and tokens including ethereum which is the second strongest coin is very dependent on bitcoin price movements.

Well, its a game of patience..
every few months you can make some BTC profit if you hold ETH
also you can wait for few years and make a huge one time profit
best idea is for example if you have 100 ETH
50 ETH you hold for years for a big pump
and 50 you are selling after x1.5 x2 x3  for smallet profits
then you can expand your ETH holdings/buy other alts/ or just hold BTC

Studying coinmarketcap every time that bitcoin rises and fall should have even given anyone that is asking this question the answer to their data analysis because we could see at most time that when bitcoin rises, most of those coins that are within 200 tops always increase along with bitcoin, which the level of their increase now depends on the quality of the project, and right now, Ethereum still has the best altcoin projects In the market which is why it is Ethereum that increases the most at all time that bitcoin rises in value.

The time that I am waiting for these coins to act on their own is when altcoin season really starts, that is when investors’ picks specially interest in investing in altcoin which is still going to be under the influence of bitcoin too though.

Can't resist if bitcoin is central of cryptocurrency. And any reason that people mention, bitcoin price will make affect on altcoin price either it is Ethereum or another altcoin.  If me, i will make action with altcoin depends on bitcoin price. Usually i take bitcoin pumped price to take a rest from trading.

the price of bitcoin is affecting the altcoin market. as a whole and that is also common in ethereum. so to make the ethereum pump possible with an update from the platform. but to strengthen the market that has gone up it would be better if the market was also supported by the upward movement of bitcoin. this will make a better increase than just the pump made by the platform from the update because usually, it will not last long then the correction will occur.

Bitcoin and Ethereum are actually not that correlated. both have a reputation in the market, and you might expect there to be some correlation between their prices, But there does not seem to be any direct relationship between them as their prices both move independently from each other on any given day.

You probably refer to situations when both coins tend to post positive or negative returns in dollar terms at the same time. It has more to do with the “market sentiment” than any intrinsic correlation. You can also notice this in the stock market. During a green day, most stocks will move higher despite having no direct link to each other. In crypto, the dollar value is mostly meaningful for Bitcoin. For altcoins, always check the Bitcoin value, because Bitcoin price leads the crypto currency market generally.

of course, there will be a relationship between ethereum prices and bitcoin prices. although the impact of ethereum on bitcoin is not so great but seeing the impact of bitcoin on ethereum is very influential. when bitcoin goes up, there is a possibility that ethereum and altcoin will also go up. and vice versa if there is a decrease. but we will see how ethereum prices will turn out after making the updates planned next year. as well as bitcoin which is also getting ready. if lucky and accepted by the market with a good response this will be a big pump in the next year.

I previewed 4 chart of ETH/USD and BTC/USD show both price correlation thus whenever bitcoin pumps so also ethereum thus majority of these altcoin upward movement is tied to bitcoin as you rightly said reference to the ATH of bitcoin 2017 resulted to ethereum and many altcoin bullish runs in that same year however immediately bitcoin dumped eth follow-suit invariably with other altcoins in fact some bcame worthless and dead.

we are still far from altcoins season, i dont think it would happen in the near future
some people hyped and say altseason is coming but the reality it woulndt come until now
then make people lose much money because of that.

in the last altseason, ethereum lead altseason, if we use that statement, so it is clear that altseason still far because of falling ethereum price

Looking at the weekly chart of Ethereum price against Bitcoin price, I think the real reversal will start on February of next year. Because by that time, the price might be above the ichimoku cloud since the price might pass through the thinnest part of the resistance cloud by February 17.

The current market situation is really bad for the alts and I really don't know what's going on with the altcoins. Although the alts are still operating normally and even bringing in big profits like Binance, ETH, TRX, ... they all suffered a sharp decline in Q3 and Q4. Any reason for this?

The reasons are a mixture of a bullish short-term outlook for Bitcoin due to a certain level of halving anticipation in the year 2020. This was made more bullish because of china's announcement. Another reason would be some factors such as Bakkt growing high in volume. All these are putting altcoins at a disadvantageous position because people were already shifting to Bitcoin. But those HODLers of altcoins should not worry because after Bitcoin's growth, altcoins will follow.

Yes this will not bother long term HODLers but rather those who has invested in altcoin with intention of short term profits. Most of the altcoin users have shifted their funds towards bitcoin  which has somewhat stabilized bitcoin price. But I don't think it's because of China's announcement as we cannot believe them anytime as they will remain against crypto even when they adopt block chain technology,  some of the altcoin markets were intentionally made bearish to reinvest around having time for a greater profit.

Like the above posts say. It is because the markets are thinly traded by a few remaining traders (2017 has the most number of crypto participants). And traders go to where the volume and liquidity is best, which is Bitcoin for now.

But when it is obvious to many that the whole space is recovering, those who left might come back and many new participants will also come.

New situation here for Ethereum against Bitcoin. It looks like the price action is forming a larger semi-ascending triangle. Below I mapped out the possible price resistance and support zones. You can long or short the breakouts or breakdowns of this trade setup.

https://i.imgur.com/b8JmLck.png

I think bitcoin dominance is tied to market confidence. The markets are uncertain at present, and confidence is low. I think it would need a surge in confidence for alts - including ETH - to rally against BTC. It would be good if ETH price was higher, but don't think it will happen right now, we will likely be waiting some time yet.

Not really. If the market is super confident they will also diversify and buy in to a lot of new projects and try out some new alts which they would not have risked in the period of low confidence. With more confidence comes a willingness to take risks,,, and this results in using up btc to buy more alts = less btc dominance.

risk must be taken now because bitcoin will be more profitable than altcoin if the market soon experiences an upward movement. but it's different from altcoin which can survive in a bitcoin down condition. because if there is altcoin that can make growth when bitcoin has decreased it will be very good for altcoin investment. we cannot predict trade domination for a long time. we only analyze the short term.

You are joking about that because that's not true. Altcoin has a lot of possibilities to get more than 10x gains easily while bitcoin needs more than a huge support to get 100% increase or 1x. The growth of altcoin will be determined by the altcoin itself whether the developer is so smart to put a huge update at the downtrend. The long term can be identified through use short term fundamental as oursevaluation.

Most of the existence of Altcoin does depend on the price movement of bitcoin. if bitcoin goes up, then other alcoins will also go up. but over time, altcoins have been able to overcome and maintain the value they have, even though the price of bitcoin is down.

I think all altcoins are trying hard to survive when bitcoin prices are low. not only ethereum, but lots of altcoin. so I think right now only ethereum might be able to withstand the onslaught of a declining bitcoin price.,

It is not easy to make 10x with the altcoin which has a $500mln turnover, but it is easier to make a 10x with the $10mln turnover. The main difference is the total market cap of specific altcoin and the price is the second step for measuring each other. In the short term, it is hard to catch the mentioned ROI but in long term markets, HODL is the best option until the investor liquidates the trading position.

I think Bitcoin and Ethereum's price grows high at the same time. I find it evident during 2017's sudden increase on bitcoin's price where it almost reached $20000. There is no real evience that when bitcoin's price goes high altcoin's price goes opposite so we should observe more and see what's happening in the market during prosperous times of bitcoin. As the altcoin season comes, it would help if we are going to analyze the market during such so that we can be more strategic even after the altcoin season.

 That's true because usually the coins with the most liquidity are the coins that will survive. Actually as far as I remember, no coin truly dies if the dev team is still working hard and there are still a handful of holders. I've seen survivors of the 2015 bear markets.

Ethereum against Bitcoin is so close to the edge of the triangle now: The price will either bounce up or breakdown from the diagonal support. Get ready to sell or short once it breaks down, target price is 0.0189btc.

https://i.imgur.com/PBlYsw9.png

in the past ethereum could move and could not depend on bitcoin. it is very encouraging and the team can work well optimizing so that ethereum can rise and prosper. but that time seems to no longer happen and ethereum today is very dependent on bitcoin. I think with you that for now don't expect ethereum to go up high. need time for that and maybe next year can change.

not only is ethereum affected by the bitcoin price effect. now, if we see the price of bitcoin can not significantly influence ethereum prices. maybe this is why altcoin also won't easily move up when bitcoin is up

Now is your chance to short Ethereum against Bitcoin. The price action has led to a pullback which is typical of a dump that breaks support. We should expect 0.0189btc now.

https://i.imgur.com/ytzFymb.png

The pullback is creating some bull flag. Short the breakdown from 0.02021btc, if not long the breakout at 0.02037btc and close your position around 0.02059btc. But overall, I still think we will see 0.0189btc.

no, bitcoin has been affecting the movement of the entire altcoin and also that includes ETH.
BTC and ETH are not synchronize when they move but look closely and you will see that when Bitoin is up, ETH will follow, maybe what you observed was just the initial reaction, but after that, the ETH always followed the trend as long as there is no bad news for ETH.

I have to agree here. ETH will make a number of comebacks,,, but until and unless the actual 2.0 and full POS happens, we are going to see a lot of false dawns that will take it to below 0.019,,, I would expect even more pain once that has been breached. Support should break, just waiting to see now how bad the break is going to be.

But this is how the market goes since then,bitcoin is always dominating the whole market and control the movements .never that altcoin starts the growth instead it isn’t always the top ranked currency of all time.

Anyway I am looking for some other pump within this year so altcoin May grow further than what is the prices now,it isn’t very frustrating when investors keep seeing their investments falling when halving is soon to come.
Though I am not losing hope because I carry to hold for long so what is another year to Keep?

The ETH/BTC price just  dumped to 0.0195btc. It is now around 0.02btc. Re-short every pullback until 0.0189btc. Or you could just wait for 0.0189btc to open a long positiom until 0.0213btc. All in all, this still looks like ranging.

Many analysts are confident that ethereum will be able to get away from the price dominance of bitcoin. The current situation in the cryptocurrency market with tough price dominance of bitcoin is not logical for a decentralized cryptocurrency. What kind of decentralization, if the price of almost all cryptocurrencies depends on the price of bitcoin. I think that the market itself should change this situation after a certain time.

Yes, that's what I meant - sorry I wasn't being clear. If confidence is low then it is generally a bear market, if confidence is higher then BTC increases... but if confidence is very high, then people feel comfortable diversifying into alts, and alts rise. Alt rise happens when market confidence is very high. So BTC dominance is tied to market confidence - the lower the confidence the higher the BTC dominance.

It's just that high confidence seems some way away at the moment...

we dont have to do our own research to know the correlation
There are many research already done if you find in the internet

The good one you can find from Binance research, it has done research market correlation between Bitcoin and top altcoin
you can check here https://research.binance.com/analysis/correlations-q3-2019 (https://research.binance.com/analysis/correlations-q3-2019)

Yes, we know that Ethereum is highly correlated but we are here on this thread to analyse Ethereum price action against Bitcoin. Because a healthy Ethereum price increase means the whole altcoin market will become a good long-term investment.

Frankly I'm surprised that after five days, the Ethereum price is still around 0.02btc.  I was expecting it to crash to 0.0189btc by now. The large dump of ETH for BTC on November 22 is telling since the price did not fall so much.. It says the bottom could be very near.

Today's strong dump will be retesting 0.01966btc which is the lower part of the bullish pennant formed from September 24 with its flagpole starting from September 7 at 0.01612btc. If support holds, the price may re-test the upper resistance level at 0.02122btc.

It is true that the price movements of altcoins have something to do with bitcoin price movements. That means so does ethereum prices
will be affected by the price of bitcoin. So later if the price of bitcoin rises during halving in the middle of 2020, ethereum prices will
possibly going up too. So from that the current market condition of bitcoin has decreased in price, making ethereum prices so affected
come down too. Hopefully this price reduction does not last long.

The price crashed to 0.0183btc is which actually lower than what I expected. Now we will have to wait if whales begin catching dumps along this price level coming into January. Hopefully it could be the bottom since ETH is now $127 worth.

It all depends on Bitcoin's price action - the recent pump that reached the diagonal resistance established long ago was reached ($7200). So did Ethereum also recovered but now we will have to see what the hard fork effect will be.

Even though the market has been red for a long time and altcoin prices are getting ruined, but I appreciate them for being able to last long enough with these conditions, altcoin only relies on the stability of bitcoin to survive so I will continue to believe in waiting for the alt season to rise

This just proves the correlation of the existing cryptocurrencies within the market in relation to the rise and dump of Bitcoin's price value. This just shows that there is somehow a direct and indirect relationship between the price of Bitcoin and Altcoins and how they behave on different situation. It just that the market is still alive despite of the dump that Bitcoin is currently into. Altcoins somehow show positive movements despite of the fact that Bitcoin continuously getting down little by little but Altcoins are keep on getting up even with small improvements. Ethereum price value like Bitcoin is also unpredictable in a sense that sometimes when Bitcoin is down, Ethereum is also down or the other way around and sometimes even Bitcoin is down, Ethereum is still keep on going up. It just shows that even most of the Altcoins depends on Bitcoin, still there are Altcoins who can still improve their prices despite of the ups and downs happening with Bitcoin.

That's why when people have a lot of money and they are called whales because they can play around with all the small traders, the market is making many people bored waiting for altcoin to shine like it used to, I say maybe some altcoins will shine again like before but not at this year, let's see next year the same as for the price of bitcoin, at the end of this year the pope chooses to play around and makes all the traders get bored throwing everything away to bitcoin, so all back again to the price of bitcoin if there is an increase in their prices then all altcoin rises including ethereum, but yesterday when bitcoin only went down a little ETH dropped 2x deeper like never before, hope it's also not below $ 100, return to trading January 2020 later

Well, it looks like altcoin season is coming soon and really soon this year. The question now is when: whether before the Bitcoin halving or after the Bitcoin halving, I believe it will last at least three years this time as it will be the greatest rallies the world has ever seen.

The direct relationship of the Bitcoin price and other altcoins has to do with the market cap as a whole. When more money comes into the market in Bitcoin, it brings in more money to trade that Bitcoin for other altcoins at the same time. The more money there is to invest in the market, the higher the prices will be. When the money leaves the market, the prices of everything goes down.

Almost every altcoin price is dependent on bitcoin price and ethereum is not an exception. The majority of investors are shifting towards bitcoin since altcoins have become a subsidiary of bitcoin. Since 2017 altcoins only move up whenever bitcoin goes up. We have to wait a few more years before making final conclusion about altcoins that whether they have the tendency to run on there own.

You have said it will soon but you also asked when. this is confusing.
what kind of altcoin season do you expect? whereas in very long-term market conditions it is still not conducive to pump pumps. bitcoin and ethereum have also not increased. it would be very difficult to imagine the altcoin season coming.

When the market is bearish, it's easy to predict the movement of ETH as it always follow the movement of bitcoin.

Things has changed completely, the trend prior to 2018 was different, ETH is quite independent as it can make its own action, now it's different, it's dominated by bitcoin and therefore it has to follow the movement of bitcoin but it can't surpass BTC success or failure in terms of price movement.

Most of the time, bitcoin usually dictates when will be the next dump of altcoins. We can really say that bitcoin's price has a relation with altcoins that's why it is very important that we monitor the price change with bitcoin if ever we are investing on altcoins. Through this, we can determine if altcoin season is already near and make some action that would make our investments be beneficial and improve. Be observant always with the price change to know when is the right time to buy or sell.

It is not really that challenging to understand why at that time the tendency of the movements between those two coins was different, at that time ethereum was being used to buy into all kind of projects and many of them did not even accepted bitcoin as a form of payment, you needed to buy ethereum if you wanted to invest in icos, this created a huge demand for ethereum as it had no competitors and there was a time in which it got very close to bitcoin in terms of market cap, but those days are over because no one is interested in icos anymore and as such ethereum is completely dominated by bitcoin.

altcoin prices are currently mostly influenced by bitcoin prices, so when bitcoin prices are dumped, altcoin will also follow it and when bitcoin pumps, but not all altcoins will experience pump prices even there are some altcoins which tend to actually decrease in price, and this is usually caused by many traders who sell their altcoins with BTC pairs, thus, pushing BTC price up in the market.

And I do not really see any reason why this is not going to continue, the altcoin prices have been influenced by bitcoin for a very long time, when bitcoin goes up many altcoins go up as well and when it goes down altcoins go down as well something really important is going to have to happen for that tendency to change, but I'm honest I do not really know what that could be because everyone seems to be incredibly interested in the price of bitcoin and disregard the rest of the coins in the market.

Well this was certainly a turn-around for ETHBTC chart, noticeably a sellers wick on BTCUSD at the same time ETHBTC breaks out... looks like BTC got sold into alts.

https://www.tradingview.com/x/PNZnNDLc/

It's early days, but looking at other metrics such as CMF on Weekly, it closed last week in the positive, so definitely has room to run:

https://www.tradingview.com/x/67hE0wYS/

Not to mention Bitcoin dominance crashing today, close to breaking through long-term support. It's all starting to look very bottom-like again. DYOR.