Bitcoin Forum

While everyone keeps have individual opinions and speculations on the next prices of cryptos, especially on the next altcoin season, I'll say we are moving nowhere because of price manipulation by exchanges. The actions of some exchanges is dropping the prices of tokens unnaturally and these affects market and industry confidence. How can we attract new money into the market when top wash trading exchanges like Bitforex and Bibox still exists and deceives people freely?

I don't need to add links to prove, but just google these exchanges and add the wash trading to your search term, you'll be marvelled at the results you'll find. 

Did it and I found these.

OVER $6 BILLION IN DAILY TRADING VOLUME FAKED ACROSS TOP 100 EXCHANGES (https://bitcoinist.com/6-billion-volume-faked-coinmarketcap/)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bibox/comments/7yuarq/bibox_wash_trading/

Crypto Exchanges Are Cleaning Up Wash Trading, BTI Says (https://cryptobriefing.com/crypto-exchanges-wash-trading-clean/)

Actually, we don't have to attract them, they will come in normally when they see the market shines again. This usually happens when they see the market starts to trigger a bull run. We're just now at the middle of bears and bulls but eventually, 'new money' from institutions will sudden come afterwards.

We never had problems attracting new money. It just comes down to how the price of Bitcoin behaves. In Q2 of this year there was a lot money flowing into the ecosystem, which contributed to the massive increase we have seen. Fact of the matter is that capital enters when the market moves up. Currently the price action is so boring and bearish, that money is leaving the market.

Exchanges such as Bitforex will continue to wash trade, even when no one is using them. It's impossible to prevent them from doing so. The only thing you could do is start a petition to have index sites such as CMC remove them from their site. It would significantly reduce the exposure of exchanges like Bitforex.

I never saw the altcoins' dump as centralized exchanges' fault although wash trading is very bad for the market as a whole. The dump of altcoin for bitcoin at the beginning of the year was just FOMO, we cant consider it the worst crypto decision in long run if some highly rated altcoins never got their rally until bitcoin's bull run. 

nobody cares about the volume numbers on no-name chinese exchanges. anyone who has been around this space longer than a few months knows the numbers are bogus.

and how is wash trading "dropping the prices of tokens unnaturally"?

Manipulation only really works when the trading volume of a coin is low - that way you only need a little money to move the price.

Once the trading volume for a given coin is huge, it's hard to manipulate because you need loads of money to do it.

So the answer is build your community, make sure your coin is popular which results in large trading volumes for it - and the manipulation diminishes.

Why the blame only to centralized exchange? I think many traders also known as whales are the most and suspects for doing wash trading and manipulations. I'm not saying big exchanges arent doing wash trading but, tokens are just meat market peer and we know how can these tokens be so volatile without even manipulations especially those low volume tokens or unknown projects.

   

As the word "CENTRALIZED exchange" itself, we already know the problem and solution, As a normal trader on that exchange then we can't do anything about it. The only solution to stop this wash trading is to regulate exchanges which are the SEC pursuing right now. You can notice that many famous exchanges dodging it which results in changing the location of there headquarters. Only regulators can stop this dck heads on manipulating price and volume of this retard exchange such as binance, huobi and many more.

New money would naturally attract itself to the market since that's how basically the market works. As for manipulation of exchanges, I'd doubt those core coins could easily be manipulated. If it ever was, the community could easily observe and determine what is happening and report those exchanges while giving them negative ratings. As for those coins with low participating community, exchanges would naturally nanipulate them for their own profit.

Will be very hard maybe. Because people will keep to use that kind of exchanges. I think maybe need power from big people so exchanges not have a lot of volume trading anymore, or maybe rules like restriction for US people happen in a lot of  countries. But i am not resist if i will stay to use that exchange because easier to use.

It's true. These exchanges only want to rise in rankings so thats why they fake volume. Because really, there are very few people who continue to trade altcoins today especially in this bear market. The only thing i see that we can do is continue to support and promote crypto towards the goal of seeing mass adoption grow. Only when mass adoption grows only then will these manipulators be hard pressed because the cost of manipulation will be too much.

in this cases, of course there are people who are harmed because of that. and then , they claimed altcoins just a piece of scam.
whales alliance create a quick pump, then after they see many people got baited, they sold all their coins then price back to normal.
for example , we can see binance have a dialy pump with low volume trading.
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in altcoins world, there a many many coins/tokens created,also for god sake,too many exchange rather than coins/tokens.
hard to avoid manipulation or something like that.
i dont think it can be stopped,well ,its a free market.

So what? If you involve yourself with a project whose tokens are listed on exchanges open to manipulation, or if you yourself are a project owner or community member who all fought to get your token listed, then what else would you expect?

You think speculators list their tokens and owners list their tokens, and don't want to themselves take advantage and sell at the top and exit before the dump?

They're only mad at price manipulation because THEY didn't get to exit in time.

We can't stop manipulation actually. Because we are not who are involved with manipulation. Centralized exchanges means it's free for manipulation. If you have big amount of btc then you might also manipulate a specific altcoin. So we have to forget about manipulation, it can't be stop. But we might get benefit from that if we are really a good crypto player. Don't go against of manipulators whoever that's. Never mind even manipulate by exchange, just don't go against it.

We can't. Wash trading is going to continue to happen regardless of what users do.

All that we can do is look out for obvious signs as traders, and simply stop using exchanges that demonstrate shady behaviour like wash trading, faking volumes, and manipulating or propping up token/coin values. There is nothing else within our power that can be done, really.

The signs are not always that obvious either which makes it much more difficult. It's just something that you have to live with really anytime you use a centralised exchange, that statistics may be fixed and so may the markets.

This bitforex is just faking a volume of a token, if a project dont want to have a fake trade then forget about listing with that exchange. I know how this exchange manipulating volume of every new listed token/coin  to thier exchange you can easily notice because of only few buy orders.

This will only affect shitcoins so it does not matter to me whether these shit exchanges will wash trade shitcoins. Let shits manipulate their fellow shits. Even if they manipulate and manipulate, they can never manipulate the prices of Bitcoin, ETH, XRP, LTC, and so many other top coins. And also sooner or later, nobody will trust them anymore. And with so many other options in the market, they cannot be a loss to the traders. They will eventually shape up or die.  

We are helpless regarding manipulation because we do not have a power to stop it, there is no way we can forbid everyone to make a trade in the exchange to prevent the exchange from getting manipulated.
and about Bitforex and Bibox, we can do something to them like reporting to the law about their dirty trick or spread the news about their activity.
we can not stop manipulation because as long as someone has attention to do that, manipulation will always happen.

use this form to report them:
https://www.cftc.gov/ConsumerProtection/FileaTiporComplaint/CDFfileTipComplaint.html

I don't think that we can formulate something to really attract new money in the market. I guess the market cycle will eventually caught on us specially when the bull run starts on alt market. You will be amaze on the poor judgement and irrational buyers in a bull run, believed me.

A good link to start with: https://www.bti.live/

That is a nice move, however, this is crypto. People won't care much about a fraudulent exchange.

Take this little assignment upon yourself;

1.) Open an account with Bitforex or Bibox, but most especially Bitforex.
2.) Fund it with a minor amount of BTC or ETH to trade.
3.) Pick any average token that has a BTc or ETH pair.
4.) Buy the sell 1 order, which will most likely increase the price of the token.
5.) Stay for about 5 mins on site and watch as their internal bot will trade down the price of that token.

This trading down occurs at intervals, if there are huge natural trades going on, you won't notice this and the exchange will be silently making money, but the price will be going up slowly or be about stagnant. This can be verified when you analyze exchanges with big real volumes like Binance and big wash trading volumes like Bitforex or bibox. Also, most times it is visible that wash trades are going on because you'll see orders which are short lived say few seconds on order book. Now when this goes on, your portfolio price doesn't naturally go down..it is manipulated down..If these exchanges trade the prices up, they would love money.

You think so? Read https://modernconsensus.com/cryptocurrencies/tether/bitforex-coinmarket-cap-bitcoin-tether/, search tweets, and also Google Bitforex Eth Price manipulation, and answer for yourself.

This actually happens alot, especially in the shady new exchanges that are trying to cause some kind of FOMO for their platform
i always just tell my crypto buddies to basically ignore CMC, and just DYOR on all projects and exchanges
and dont trust those IEOs,  cause they get manipulated just as bad :(

Everyone who spends 5-6 months in the crypto market knows well which exchange has fake volume, but still, people love trading in centralized exchanges. A third-grade centralized exchange has higher volume than a top tier decentralized exchange. Because most of the potential coins chose CEX over Dex, they offer fake asset security, promise a lot, and we fall into their trap easily. Therefore, exchange manipulated the coin price to show people that they have higher volume, so, they can offer high fees for new token listing or for the IEO launchpad by showing the high rank in Coinmarketcap. CMC is another tool where they are like supporting these fake volume exchanges. That's why I like Coingecko most, wherein the trust score section we can see which exchange has real volume. Personally I think, We have no way to stop these manipulations until everyone moves on DEX, which seems not possible in the near future.

Over time, it's been a fact that centralised exchanges perform way better than their decentralised counterparts. When it cones to having a wide array of trading pairs, listings and volumes. It's very painful to see that sometimes these centralised exchanges can pull up fake volumes just to attract more users. But I don't believe that has a far reaching impact on the general market prices.

This is common practice for many exchanges, including stock exchanges. There are market makers whose responsibilities include creating liquidity and reducing volatility when possible. You may perceive this as unfair trading. Of course, MMs take every opportunity to make money. We know that most crypto assets are so illiquid that even $100 can shift the market. And creating liquidity can be beneficial to customers.

while this issue is very true and has been tackled so many times yet proof wasn't enough to justify the reality here
thats why there is a need for us to inform the community not to fall from this deceiving and misleading with our help the victims will be lessen
but you must add links for faster references so in just one click we already have proofs

I read a lot of accusations of manipulations and wash trading done by some cryptocurrency exchanges even including the most famous ones. This topic is a hot one in some crypto-focused forums I am also a member of and yes even in this forum. On my part, manipulations in any form is really not so acceptable especially so when we are basing on data for our trading decisions. However, the reality is that exchanges are brazen in tinkering with data all because they feel that they can easily get away with it and there seems to be no backlash suffered by manipulative exchanges. And I think that there is where we can start. There should be an effective way we can send this message to them and them fear the possibility of regulators coming their way.

yes you're right, we don't need to do anything for this. sooner or later "new money" will come to the market. but manipulation makes negative sentiment on crypto never disappear. I hope there will be firm action on this matter. maybe the SEC can help, but unfortunately the average crypto exchange doesn't come from the US. so it's difficult to solve the problem of manipulation.

manipulation is mostly done by exchanges to attract trade. on average, for new coins registered in large exchanges, there is a system like this. the trading volume looks high and of course, it makes other traders curious about what is happening to the asset.
this will not give such negative sentiment. traders and investors are now smarter and will not buy or trade coins in such exchanges.

Deal with it because even on most top tier exchangers do really have these issues.Getting rid of it? Never!
As long this market goes there would always a tendency of price manipulation and its an inevitable thing thats why
as an investor you should really be wise on how you would deal wit it.Talking about industry confidence it wont really come
to a point where it would be adopted 100% but at least we are heading to that way but expect there would be lots of factors
that can affect communities views.

I have dealt with trading bots since Mintpal, Poloniex and Bittrex heydays. You cannot stop them and you actually don't know if the exchange is the one trading against you. It could always be one tricky whale trader.

But the thing is: Trends always show especially in the macro view.

I agree with you, as long as we can read the trend goes where. We won't get tricky by the big volume by the bots.
We should analyze not only from one exchange, we should look at many exchange before we take a trade

I think it is not the exchanges but the big whales can manipulate the market. There are so many market exchanges that it is impossible for them to be united just to pump and dump a certain coin except if the exchanges itself is the big whales then manipulation will be possible in which there is no way of how can they be stop.

Exchange site is having full control over the trading bots that already manipulated the market and even the traders are also using bots make it even worse.
As a manual trader and i never try to take short term trade as my choice to trade.
But one thing that we must remember if exchange site will always use both these days, you don't need to prove it because so many times people have already discovered.

We cannot get away with bots. That is part and parcel of trading nowadays. Can you give a specific exchange site that does not have bots? There is none. And the bots are, as you have said, coming from both trading platform itself and traders. But bots are not as brilliant as manual traders. You can actually play with them. They do not have enough reason as they are set in a limited manner. Sometimes, it is very itchy on my part to fight against bots. But sometimes I just choose to set my order and leave it like that. But you can always race against them if you have the time.

That's what I think that there are other parties involved in this matter, what happened was not only done by CEX but also whale, and this becamse a partnership that benefits both parties, nothing can be done especially traders with small funds.

Majority of the exchanges in the market are using fake volumes and it is documented and the price manipulation in tokens are evident and the manipulation will continue unless there is strict regulation for exchanges and if that happens then they will not dare to manipulate the price as it will attract heavy fines and suspension of license and so on, until then we have to accept these realities since this is a new market.
Even if some countries comes up with proper regulation most of these exchanges will move out to free heavens.

Well. exchange manipulation of token price is rampant.  It is quite hard to stop them but if they are bound by government laws, then you can file a complaint on the institution that regulate exchanges.  If the government took notice and the exchange failed to provide evidence that they are clean,then, the exchange will be foreclosed.

We can have decentralized exchanges and let the community handle the issues with markets. I have seen that some centralized exchanges not only manipulate the prices but also sell tokens-coins that they don't even have in their wallets. When you try to withdraw, they can't send it. We need to inform each other about these false things and manipulations, this is how we deal with these exchanges.

You will not be able to influence the manipulation of the prices of crypto-currencies on some exchanges. The only thing you can do is stop trading on them and find sites with fairer trading. If exchanges manipulating cryptocurrency prices will have an outflow of traders for this reason, perhaps they will correct this situation for the better. In the meantime, we have what we have.

Right. Communities can't even handle simple issues like getting deposit addresses correct, or using the right wallet and keeping their own fees, or even calculating the right fees to pay.

And we expect them to handle the issues with markets? I love DEX too but until people can't even learn to hold their own crypto, they're probably all going to want to use CEX.

This is why DEX doesnt really have that volume or liquidity because people do keep or do prefer on using CEX.They dont bother out about such manipulation
and other related things as long it can meet their users needs.To know that only Cex do deal out with FIAT/Crypto pairs and even on deposits or withdrawals which DEX wont able to do
thats why these platforms do things as much as they like even its already been too obvious but people do still continue to deal with it.

I don't think anyone can stop that except the place of exchange itself that is able to stop the price manipulation that occurs at the exchange place, but usually the market uses that strategy to be able to attract users and other investors to trade on their platforms.

hmm i dont think we CAN stop it man
all we can do is be smart, and dont allow ourselves to get sucked into things like FOMO and IEO hype.
Back in the day places like Bittrex used to show top balances in coin amounts, so it helped users see if a coin had some whales manipulating people
but all exchanges have removed that distribution info now :(