Bitcoin Forum

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2019-212

Should we assume the project is dead?

I was about to reserve $500 worth of GRAM tokens on Crypterium or some exchange, but at this point i think it's not advisable.
What do you suggest ?

What else? Of course, stop investing in that project anymore. Remembered what happens with Kik a few months ago?
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/24/20881515/kik-messaging-app-shut-down-kin-cryptocurrency-fight-sec-ico

there is no reason for us to continue our investment after we got this notification from SEC, it is completely dead for me.
they do not have another different choice other than closing their project.

It's not a particularly surprising development given that Telegram is known to the authorities for providing an anonymous channel of communication to its users, as well as the fact that they are essentially selling tokens that represent securities more than anything else.

Very interesting though that SEC only took action this far into their launch, though. The project was already generating a lot of hype.

I'd definitely stay out of this one, until SEC clarifies their position at the very least.

I guess the above excerpt from the SEC website says it all.

The company is operating under US law... so it can't ignore the law it is operating under.
I honestly don't know much about the law governing the company but if a privately owned is creating its own token, the company should comply with the rules.

These passed days I always see those people that are posting "How to Buy Gram tokens" and now, this pop. I need to know more about the US Sec law but this means that TON can still file for compliance since this is a temporary order.

Nope, only for TON.

Keep your $500 or buy bitcoin.

Lets all chill and wait to see what will happen, telegram should be able to fix this shit on their own or just give up, its too early to guess now because i heard SEC loves some money, i was mad at myself for missing the TON sale but now somehow i feel at ease from within

Definitely, its the US long arm of the law, so It will be better if you would step aside that money to something else, I won't suggest which coin though, but I'm sure you know to DYOR here. Here is one example of a project being sued by US SEC and how it turns out for them.

(https://www.coindesk.com/kik-messaging-app-to-shut-down-following-sec-lawsuit-against-ico).

And there are reports that the token itself went literally to $0.00.

You can also read one of my post here regarding another company being sued by US SEC,
(https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180580.0).

And then there is case of EOS that got away lightly.

About SEC action I have mixed feelings, firstly I do believe that laws are there for a reason and grudge SEC has against TON is quite easy to understand:
So, in a nutshell missing information pieces. If(!) TON indeed did not come up with all those infos, then this is a shame and I am sorry to say but SEC is right to act. On another hand timing could not have been worser, they had years to react and now they pop up several weeks before public release.

But projects of such magnitude do not die from a simple SEC injunction, some lawyers will get active and things will be resolved, I am sure. Apparently entire 1.7 Billion went into TON Foundation war chest and investors could also come up with additional funds. So even a 100mil fine would be manageable. In some way this news generates publicity, which is also good.

By the way, do not buy GRM anywhere until official TON launch. You will buy thin air or overpriced token. Wait.

Well if ICO's offer or operate within the US soil they should make sure that they are fully compliant to avoid pressure like this. Unless the SEC agree and let them pay for settlement just like other coin who violated their guidelines. It should be a lesson for every start-ups to comply with government regulations or observe self regulation to avoid problems in the future.

You're better off not reserving any GRAM for the time being. You were about to reserve a token that was bound to get dumped (at least in my opinion) by the early buyers once the retail investors started pouring in.

Good? The words "SEC" and "restraining order" are now linked to Telegram's token, how is that good publicity? Do you think the retail investosr reading this news on The Verge, Bloomberg, or Forbes, are now saying "Hmm, this token actually looks like it could be a good investment"?

The old saying "there is no such thing as bad publicity" doesn't apply in this case, this is actually VERY bad news for Telegram's token.

I have always been skeptical about this project, with SEC halting it, I think my fears has been confirmed. If this was really backed by telegram, I hope to see how the resolve the issue and get back on track. But if it's not, then this is the end of the project. Holding off from investing till I'm certain of it.

I think GRAM tokens was overprice its too expensive for small investors to afford I want to buy and hold it, but because it was too expensive thats why im got turn off when i visit the one of its offerings, particulary in Liquid Exchange GRAM token price was $4 dollars.

This is bad, I guess they need to settle it immediately or else this project will be considered as dead. It was stated that they it was not registered and they were able to raise 1.7$ billion dollar for less than 2 years as they started the fund raising last January 2018.

I am wondering, why for almost 2 years the SEC didn't release it earlier and they only release it yesterday "October 11, 2019".
(The complaint alleges that defendants failed to register their offers and sales of Grams, which are securities, in violation of the registration provisions of the Securities Act of 1933.). If they can solve this issue , I am pretty sure they can continue the project smoothly.

First of all, we need to separate Telegram (company and messenger) from TON. Durov's knew very well that it will be under attack and they have "washed their hands". TON Foundation and Network is independent entity from Telegram and it is all about PoS stakeholders and Validators now. No one, not even Durov will be in control of TON once it is released.

As of SEC: I am sure settlement will be reached and this would be also in newspapers. More news - more people know about them. Real long term investors would not invest into GRM in next 18 month anyway because of expected high volatility and pressure from ICO investors selling their stakes. TON has enough money to proceed with development and proof it's functionality.

TON is so much more than blockchain or "simple" smart contract platform. If team can deliver (which I strongly believe they can) then TON is here to stay. And if those news will help to push GRM down quite a bit then I will be quite happy because I am seriously considering to purchase validator stake and operate few nodes myself.

SEC is really agressive in this year. Telegram have less than 20 days to fix it

Even if they do not settle this they can either go ahead and release GRM or return money to investors (apparently entire 1.7bil is stored in TON Foundation) and then make a proper ICO. I would bet that proper ICO would raise a high 8 digit number.

on one point: I hate it when big corporations infiltrate our crypto market, they never have good intentions even if some could make profit off their backs
on another point: This is outrageous from the Trump controlled SEC, if it was an American company collecting this money their reaction would be totally different, they'd try to control it but not shut it down like that.

Terrible thing to happen and so I guess GRAM will be off because they already did in once for being very assertive.


Isn't the GRAM developer from US? Was assuming they are. I have no idea so what jurisdiction do the US SEC have to projects outside US, I don't understand that part. Do they have the right to shut down projects from Estonia or so?

We should hold our investment in this project. SEC should be the one we need to follow and if SEC halted this, we can't do anything in here but to follow. Or else, we will also get trapped. Follow SEC guidelines since it is also a guideline for you to protect yourselves.

As far as I know GRAM is based on the US.
SEC does not have any jurisdiction outside the US because every country has a different jurisdiction and SEC does not have a capability to shut down a project outside the US unless the project itself crosses the borderline.

there are 2 reasons why SEC stop this project;
1. The project is unregulated
2. They are involving US citizen in the sale

I find it strange that projects on this level don't want to consult SEC before the sale, one would think that it would be better then getting halted/sued later.

The SEC likes to halt progress in anything too big on the Internet. They simply don't want U.S citizens or anyone else to participate in more unregulated types of online activities, but if they stop businesses in their tracks, they just confiscate the funds and the investors never see a penny back of their investment. All the SEC LAWYERS keep every penny for them selves. I think the SEC are the biggest crooks walking on the planet. I am sorry to say this, but I do not respect what they do at all as they act purely in self interest.

Perhaps at the time of fundraising this was not necessary. Even in the USA there is no full-fledged legal framework regarding relations with cryptocurrency.
GRAM tokens could well not fall under the concept of securities at the time of the sale.It is a pity that the launch of the project will have to be postponed, but I think it will take place nevertheless.

Because they know that they don't stand a single chance for the simple reason that they are launching a security. Or they thought to have found a grey area to exploit and for that reason not need the approval of the SEC.

The SEC for a long time wasn't really that active, but that has definitely changed---the freedom security issuers had is no longer there and a lot projects will be held responsible for that. No way the SEC will let you get away with it.

I'm sure there is bias towards the bigger projects, because on paper it doesn't make economical sense to chase after few million dollar projects when there are a lot projects in the +$50 million category.

The main thing in this situation is to be honest with yourself. If there is already such a problem, it means that something is wrong with this project. This is a signal that it is dangerous to invest in TON right now. Of course it is very strange that news of this kind appeared right now, and not earlier. Same thing now with Facebook and its Libra. Of course I have a number of assumptions about what exactly is happening. I believe that this is not an attack on a blockchain or cryptocurrency, but most likely they just want to have a share of this pie, that’s muddying the water. In any case, soon we will see how everything will be.

In my opinion, this is another possibility of PR of this project. Pavel Durov is not a fool and he perfectly understood all the risks he would not be able to delay his project for such a long amount of time knowing that he could stumble over the SEC stone. Most likely, this issue will be resolved in the near future. But I advise you not to forget this project and constantly watch the news. Since everything can change very soon.

  Looks like trouble is afoot, I knew it was only a matter of time before we would see bigger ICO projects being ousted by the regulators. Great article, I wonder if they really are securities or utility tokens? They say simply listing your token as a utility isn't enough to proceed and start to raise capital thru crowdfunding. I guess it would be safer for startups to actually reach out to the S.E.C first, just to be sure the company's token is compliant and doesn't get them into any legal trouble. Seems a bit of a stretch, but worth it in the long run!

Bad news for the Blockchain community ? Why ? Even if the project raise some big amount if money , its Telegram in the end , we're not investing into a big company man , just another chat app in the end. I have already imagined how this could have gone with GRAMS in 3-4 years if the project remained on the market because the numbers are not in their side anymore and also its full of scammers so people starting to avoid telegram already so I would call it dead in those years regarding numbers of users. Just my opinion...

I believe TON team will try their very best to fix things. They will not let their big investors think that this game is already over for them. Huge money is at stake so more than likely, they have high caliber individuals who are already working on this. Let us see how far they can go with this project.

Such bad news but the article is already an answer to your question. It's really disappointing that the projects which we thought are potential would only end up like this. I guess team behind this must be responsible but I have heard that they're not working hard to pursue ton. That's the reason why we must not invest or involve ourselves in new existing projects much unless you're a big risk-taker. You better invest with reputable and trusted coins.

I hope ton team will be able to fix this problem and fix it quickly, otherwise the project will be dead. If Telegram fails to release the first batch of its Gram token by the end of this month, it will have to refund the money raised. I can't say that I am a fan of this project, I wouldn't invest in it, but I don't want it to be shut down too.

This is quite an entertaining event. How come the SEC will now interfere with TON now that they secured a huge investment fund. Yes it's too big not to be noticed but I think that is harsh on the part of TON. I hate those people from SEC that interfering with legit project like telegram. If decentralization will get destroy will blame SEC for this matter.

They smells it .. sec loving money , I won't surprised if then after this nothing happened, TON just need to pay some fees there ;D .

However I even confused about these gram token sales ... they offered 4 usd at liquid few months ago and now digifinex listing it for only around @1.8 usdt , is this even legit sales? Idk ... digifinex always works in shady ways for me . Can anybody confirm about this sales made by digifinex? I've asked directly to digifinex support regarding this since yesterday... there's no response till now.

One thing that I know ... those people who bought the tokens from/through the early investors they won't get any tokens distributed later in the day due the private agreement between the investor and the company.

Is it possible digifinex doing this right now?

AFAIK, they don't have that power, but banning a project in the US is a  worldwide death sentence for a project.

Every time when some giant company wants to join in crypto, SEC protests them. Now, I definitely say, Facebook's Libra will face the same problem! Though I did not buy the GRAM coin but this news hurt me a lot! Because the crypto industry really needs some giant names to get real mass adoption! That's why I will still continue supporting the Telegram TON network!

Thank you for the information I wasn't aware of that but the american SEC can't rule the world. So platforms outside USA can still provide GRAM tokens on their exchanges.

Pavel Durov never gives up without a fight. I think he was ready for that. In my opinion, although TON has problems now, they will be resolved within a few months. Let's wait a bit before talking about the death of the project.

sad to see that the token is dead even before its main launch. I'm very excited about this token as i have a token holding that will support TON. now I now why minter got dump this past few days.

Telegram should have been aware as if they involve US citizen they will be halted by the SEC so no wonder why the ICO is heading towards a dead zone. There were signals of this happening for weeks , it was just a matter of time until SEC stepped up in the game. Is not questionable that social medias or chat platform are doing their own projects into the crypto world ? For me it is and I think Libra will face the same result in the end because they are already loosing a lot of their original investors.

in my opinion they are very serious that the SEC chose a legal route to solve this problem. This emergency measure is intended to prevent Telegram from flooding the US market with digital tokens that we suspect are illegally sold.

In the US it is not completely legalized cryptocurrency, but I'm a little confused, is the name of the coin from the telegram is TON or GRAM? because I found two different discussions about the name of the coin from this telegram, did you know?

TON Telegram Open Network

It's the blockchain network for telegram token which is called GRAM token.
They claimed that Telegram Open Network is the competitor of ethereum smart contract (of course everybody does these claims ;D)

GRAM Token

It's a digital currency/cryptocurrency that will be used on the Telegram Open Network (TON)

TON is the network that runs GRAM cryptocurrency.

Telegram raised 1.7 billion for TON. That's a huge amount.

The investors voted against the return of their fund, which is a sign that they, the investors, are confident that the project will reach an agreement with the SEC.

" including more than 1 billion Grams to 39 U.S. purchasers"

This is impressive amount.
The TON team should have known better than to sell to US citizens. This is a rookie mistake, they just could excluded the US and went along with their offering.