Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin and Other crypto bots controlling the btc price.

Bots are start buying at some spefic time.

WHO ever control those bots have control over bitcoin price!


So who is behind that bots?

Any proof you have to support your statement? Some big players may use bots to trade simultaneously in more than one market so that they can take benefit of price difference. But to control the market, it requires much more than a bot! Market manipulation is easier said than done!

Have you noticed any such pattern?

Who ever created Bitcoin knows how to manipulate.

Simple:)

Yes definitely go to Binance Exchange and go to BTC/USDT trading pair. You will notice there is a certain order worth some accurate satoshi count. For example and order worth 10.129927 BTC this order will never get traded it will always move around the books up and down. It might just get added sometimes when people add their order with it but generally it remains consistent these are done espcially at the times of high volatility for example moving average crosses etc. I don't know if it's exchange or some private institution. I would definitely try to come up with some pictures when I come across such a thing It's more of a routine affair.

Your perspective on the market is wrong. You shouldn't interpret market price/price action as manipulation or control over an asset price. The charts simply represent the equilibrium between buyers and sellers over a specific period of time. Bots are nothing else than programs that automate trading strategies. There are a lot of different bot types like market-makers, trend following bots, etc. But they don't do anything else then follow the trading rules written in a programming language. It all resumes to this: if there are more buyers in the market then you will see price go up and vice-versa. This is just my 2 cents..

I'm skeptical of your claim. Do you have any evidence to support it?

Are you one of those "look at the price -- it must be manipulation!" people, or are you one of those "everyone knows it's manipulated!" people?


Oh, I see. You're one of those people who don't realize how little they know.

Does this means that you believe that satoshi is manipulating the market and he's around there playing with everyone's emotion? I don't think that you have to be satoshi to control the market.

Whilst, it's known and claimed by few folks that there's a manipulation but how can you prove that? And suspecting that satoshi is the one that manipulates, well, no trace of him and no one knows his whereabouts.

There are tons of bots operating on crypto exchanges, but you are wrong if you believe bots manipulates the price
People set bots, they have to set orders to buy and sell, and this is the way they operate, nothing more, nothing less

There are some people with control over a lot of coins that can influence the market

This is so paranoic, yes, of course, there are bots, and of course, some people are making them and programing them, nothing new, and yes they will buy at specific times depending on the price they should be buying at a low price, so that actually helps the coin to raise the price, they influence the price a little bit like any other buyer, but total control? no, if that is the case any buyer as total control or any group of buyers, man we all control the market, and now it depends on the usage of the coin, to make more people to get involved into BTC in this case, there should be many people with bots out there no just one guy, I'm pretty sure of that.

Then do you really think trading bots made by them or someone can really manipulate the bitcoins price? I get it that there is an existing price manipulation but using bots as an example of the one who is manipulating bitcoins price is not considerable. Bots can't work like that, yes they were used to do simultaneous trades but for controlling the price no. It will cost them more than just a bot to do that.

That's just wrong. Like any market, Bitcoin can be controlled to lesser extent by the people with the most money, whales.

These people are able to dump or pump the price and since their movements are often at times market changing, we can see the market change with them and often set trends in the market and cause snowball effects.

Actually bots just follow the algorithms on which they are created. But generally these algorithms themselves are constructed in a shady manner and take in certain variables which can manipulate the market. Anyone who has a 4-5%of daily exchange volume can easily manipulate Bots generally do this by laddering buy sell order at difference of points thus pushing price up or down.

If there is control over the price of bitcoin, let's say price containment with the help of bots, is this not a manipulation?

I think this is also a manipulation, even if this manipulation allows the crypto market to live. After all, if you let it float freely, without the influx of new money, prices can fall so much that the market becomes much less attractive for a long time.

Any artificial interference is a manipulation.

I believe its right, Bots can possibly manipulate a small portion of the market. Whales plus the bots that they are using can control the market lightly and it can help them to win a trade war. Every time a trader does buy and sell into the market makes a very small change on its price especially if a snowball effect comes through that makes the market prices change and it can catch the trader's attention that will possibly join the snowball effect.

I think the 2 terms are getting confused here.

Control would be if a single entity or government would have the power to do anything to the coin (eg, changing the maximum supply, stopping the coin, etc). Since Bitcoin is decentralised, no one is able to control it.

Regarding manipulation, we've all seen manipulations of the Bitcoin price and other markets previously, it's nothing new and happens to all markets.

Whales controlled the bots but it doesn’t mean they controlled bitcoin. This is a decentralized market, no one controls bitcoin but of course if you have more bitcoin you can affect the price, but you don’t own the whole market. There are so many bots, traders are using this for their own trading strategies its very convenient for them.

If that's true, then whales were the one behind the bots. Someway bitcoin is being manipulated and not controlled. If it is controlled, it could've never reached such a level as now. It also falls under the list of centralized form of investment or similar to the same. Just because it is decentralized it has gained importance and stands unique among the big list of available investments.

Well this is prevalent last year, 2017 we haven't heard about bots, there are just a few that I can think of. But in 2018, lots of bots coming up and many speculators/traders uses them to take advantage of ease and speed, but you still need to have experience though, because using bots is very hard as you have to set all parameters right.

As far as who is behind, we don't know, maybe some whales or traders who have had enough experience to play with it. Bots are just part of the equation now, Bots Are Manipulating Price of Bitcoin in ‘Wild West of Crypto’  (https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-bots-manipulating-bitcoins-price-1538481600).

the OP is just an alt and a spam starter(topics started by him (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;threads;u=2640926;sa=showPosts)) I would not bother asking him any question since you won't get
any reliable answer from him.

How sure are you that bot controls the market price of Bitcoin?  You should provide enough information regarding this claims to make people understand why you have an assumption on the price of Bitcoin been controlled. we all know that the price of bitcoin is mostly controlled by people with huge amount of bitcoin but not bot, so why are you saying the opposite??

We don't know how OP thinks about and claiming that Bots and the person who created bots are controlling the market price.
Such allegations and claims can't be justified. I can't see how manipulations work in a decentralized form of market and most especially for bitcoin.
Bots have their own market understanding and therefore, bots can decide their own but it doesn't mean that they know everything.

This is theoretically possible. You just need to be super rich and you can affect its price dramatically. So, any one from the top 100 richest can do such control easily.

May be Buffet of Amazon's jiff.

It may be possible, but there is still no proof that this kind of thing is really happening.
Finding a proof for this information may be a bit hard, and if there is really someone controlling or manipulating the market, it might affect the whole market if discovered.

Based on your title, control and manipulate is somehow similar with each other. When someone manipulated bitcoin's price, it means rhey can control it. So it's just the same. But how did you come up with that statement? Where's the proof to prove youe point?

this is a serious accusation mate that needs proofs ,yeah manipulation is not impossible because we have whales that holds big amount of bitcoin and so altcoins,but you must have pattern about those Bots and in which exchanges this happening,for sure crypto community would love to hear specifics regarding this.but if you don't have then not to make this an isue
each of us are looking for proofs because of this very serious talks,hope OP will put soon for better references

It could be true. But let me just state a few facts that would show that your theory is difficult to happen. There are hundreds of international cryptocurrency exchanges all over the world. And there are hundreds more local exchanges which are pretty much unknown internationally. Each of these exchanges have hundreds of trading pairs with BTC. If you want to control the BTC price with bots, you will have to infiltrate more than 50% of these pairs in these exchanges. Now, that picture makes your theory close enough to impossible.

If there are manipulators, it is the whales who are owning hundreds of thousands of BTC.  

neither because those aren't the only options.
maybe back in 2010 bitcoin price was manipulated since the market size was tiny and there weren't really more than 1 major exchange by that time. nowadays the market is still small but in comparison to early years it is gigantic and more importantly there are numerous major exchanges that don't have a volume share more than 8%. nobody can manipulate or control the price in the current situation.

that doesn't mean manipulation doesn't exist though. just like any other market, bitcoin market is also susceptible to manipulations. it is the degree that keeps changing.

Crypto trading bots are not superior to the manual/human trading. Even if we use trading bots we still need to facilitate the bots since if we do not know how to use it we will end up losing our cryptocurrency. Not all the time that crypto bots brings out profitability sometimes it brings loss. So at the end it is the trader itself that needs to program the bot where to and what to buy, when to and what to sell. The only advantage of using bots is that it can run  hours without resting and without being influenced by emotions. The only downward part is that if you must have a large amount of crypto and vast knowledge in trading before engaging in using it.

There has long been speculation and conspiracy theories about Bitcoin Whales using trading bots to manipulate the price, but nobody is giving actual proof of this. In a open market, anyone with enough money can manipulate the price of shares or commodities in that market.

The average Bitcoin price is determined by using the price from different large Bitcoin exchanges, so you will have to have a lot of money to manipulate the price on all these exchanges to be able to push the price in a specific direction.  ;)

I think there are more than one Whale doing this, but I have no proof of that.  ::)

This sounds like a conspiracy theory more than anything else. If you said that whales are to blame — okay, sure. If you said that the government is secretly buying BTC, okay, I can understand that. But someone controlling the bots that act in accordance with parameters you set — I'm going to need some proof of that first.

Did I mentioned government?? 

No I did not! 

But Yes Everybody knows Now its a bots huge Network of botnets

Your perspective is totally wrong,  no one has a sole controls over bitcoin market,  users all around the world controls it,  not just some groups of individuals,  when ever a dump occurs,  let's assume it's been dumped by whales,  traders also panic sell making the dump to go further down,  likewise when pumping, traders FOMO buying.  That's how it works

Yes, there are bots and we know there are also market manipulators. but bots are not enough to manipulate price. outside market also have manipulators not just bots in markets. the one that manipulate us is the news spreading all over the site and socialmedia. huge well-known people who advertise BTC and their prediction. so bots are not totally enough to manipulate the price of the market.

Its not, bitcoin is not being controlled by the bots becayse bots are just there for a busy trader and of course those traders play the game according to their plan. The price moves by the demand and the supply, if you have more holdings then you can pump or dump the market but I’m sure it wont last since many whales are also in the market, not all thinks the same way to trade.

your theory about bots use might occur if all exchanges collaborate to commit fraud to cryptocurrency users,
I support what the OP says because there is no guarantee they won't do manipulation.
because so far there are no people or agencies that oversee the cryptocurrency exchange operations

bots are useful or can be devastating depending on the user  . your right , busy traders use bots and this kind of traders are sometimes big time traders which is mistaken as a whale that manipulates the market .


yes price is controled by people but people that trades can use bots because they cant watch the market on most times  . like op , other people also suspect that exchanges are invaded by bots and they both think that these bots are responsibe for the ups and downs but not just bots , regular traders that trade manually are also included on the manipulation  .

The truth about manipulation is that no matter how much of a whale you are or even how many synchronized trades bots can make, manipulation is a short term game and wille ventually fail.

The Bitcoin market despite being newer is large enough to roll over manipulation when the waves truly break on the shore. The bigest example would be the falving next year. The market HAS to go up. More than likely by next christmas anyone with some coin should be giggling.

Bots are controlled by the program its programmer programmed into that programmable Bot.

I hope I made someone's day, not expecting though.

Bots will be bots and they will be doing what they are programmed for. I don't think we should even dig deeper about this since we all know this is a bit of an over digging about these Bots controlling Bitcoin. I don't know if someone would agree to me but the OP sounded like someone from the government asking Mark Zuckerburg how the internet works.

Although there is no clear evidence of price control but the feeling for this is very genuine because if only some people feel and tell this story, we may not be too believing and think they are just saying bullshit, the actual situation has said the opposite, so many people feel the control and manipulation in bitcoin. But even if a lot of people find out, this game is going on in the most normal way, they understand that this control is always an opportunity to achieve good profits, it's important that we swim in the right direction

I think we users are the one who controls the Bitcoin market because it's movements will always depends on our emotions and desire wehter we buy or sell. That is I think near to accurate speculation regarding the topic take note that we created bot for us to be more convenient. Prices can be manipulated by big players therefore we are the one to be behind all this.

Its users are the one who controls it, the more you have been holding a bitcoin, the more control you have, whales actually can move the price of bitcoin if they want to, and that is where manipulation of the market will flow. Us, users are actually the one who moves it.

I hope that you all understand that price cannot be controlled. It can be manipulated but this manipulation has at least 2 limitations.
1. the number of coins on exchanges available to be traded
2. the funds the manipulators have.

There's only a small part of total supply that is traded on exchanges. The rest is held or traded otc. Even from that small amount can be bought. Your first trade can deplete some orders but others have to follow with their orders for you to be able to do anything.

Not many people have enough money to manipulate the price and nobody has enough to control it, even the government.

Proofs and facts, show it.
We need that to be sure of everything. We cannot just shout everything that we speculate and yet we have nothing to back it up.
You said it already, those are bots. How come they could control the market with just being set by someone else.
Also, that is difficult to do.

There are bots on both sides of the fence, so I dont believe its controlled. However, those with more money try to manipulate it.

Bots are setted up by stable coins pairs with btc.
Bots will make buy orders If they want to price to go up and sell when they want to price to go Down!! 

Users were just following the way on how the whales could dominate them in terms of market adoption. Whales could do more impossible things on crypto, they'll create hype, and other ways to poison the minds of every people. Wrong information feeding is their act of manipulating people, and if they're using money to make certain ideas that could convince people or even threatened them for something, which leads other to panic selling.

The price of bitcoin is controlled by the users and there is no objection from anyone but you cannot invest in a market with emotions and earn any profit, market analysis and market entry is more important and if you are careful on that aspect then there is nothing that can emotionally force you to sell. When the bear market started i went completely the opposite direction, sold my coins at a profit and then wait for the bear market to settle and then reinvested again and i do not watch the market regularly as i have my target and hence the volatility and the small crashes will not trouble me.

I was thinking that you are going for an alien theory here  :D :P. Humans controls the market but there are sectors and sections and then there is the unknown in every market, i am telling this because no one can exactly predict at what point the market moves .

Yea right.... 😀

I agree. Bots are merely programmable software that's been created and provided by a certain exchanger which helps their Traders to trade in a convenient way if they are tired and want a break from Trading, even my friend creates his own bot for Trading using Java script, this ain't Iron Man jarvis AI to control and manipulate the market, you could also do it if you are going to study some programming languages that could make bots.

Obviously they do this because of the snowball effect generally when there is some major happening for example a Moving Average crossover we generally just need an ignition for the coin to go up this ignition is created by these bots who ladder up their buys of high quantities making people believe that the market course has reversed and after this things settle these whales are the first ones to book profit because they had brought so low. This is why we generally see tiny corrections after such a giant move it's the whale selling off their buys.

Reading up this statement do somehow give me some laugh.On what aspect where these bots controlling the price?
Bots are for automation which had been set up by traders itself so it will always vary on buy and supply thing.
They can easily fill out orders according on whats being set so i dont see any manipulation on here.This is why its much
better to read up some about how Trading bots do works.

Exchanges publish apis precisely so bots can work on them. Even if they did not publish the apis, bots will eventually find their way to work on exchanges by simulating mouse clicks. The apis just make it so that bots are somewhat controlled, and its easier to program for them.

Exchanges like bots, because they are treated just like any other user or trader and take fees from the transactions.

Price is no more affected by these than any other trade. Supply and demand affect price. Economics affect price. People (and bots) buying or selling affect price.

Bots are rather making money for themselves not pumping just to dump later. This is very risky because you have to make others follow your trades. If a bot keeps buying into a wall it will never get anywhere.

People are manipulating the price that's for sure but I doubt the bots are responsible. Bots are buying and selling small amounts of crypto to keep making pennies on every trade. Those who manipulate the market do it with millions.

What an ingenious reasoning that is backed up b facts and details that were meticulously researched upon by hundreds of people. Please. Before making an argument, at least learn how to bloody answer one. Whales may use bots but they only schedule buys and sells at the time. I doubt that those types of movements would be enough to call the market "controlled". Bots are automated. They're only for the sake of trading so that users wouldn't need to buy or sell coins themselves 24/7. Bitcoin or crypto, in general, is called "decentralized" for a reason you know. Sure, we've seen countless manipulation in the markets by now but those would be done by the whales since they have the ability to own the majority of the market. But telling us that Satoshi uses bots to control the market? Please. At least come up with something more interesting than that.

U Sounds like u are one of the Controllers
Why You try to defend them?

Bots, whales, miners and exchanges definitely. Like you said, though, they are all on both sides of the fence (though I'd wager there are more sides on a very complicated fence!).

And sure, everyone wants their piece of the cake and will do their best to get the largest piece possible. Name of the game, really. You got to allow and even encourage market control for it to be self operating.

Ironically, most market regulators think they can't have enough control over the bitcoin market. Hence, the rejections of derivatives applications;)

Bitcoin price is manipulated controlled means when you keep a control on the daily changing and try to keep it minimum. In case of BTC bots just do the opposite they are instead giving BTC much more volatility and shocks. We see 15-20% movements every day which are really too much to handle some times.

As I see so. Nothing has to be blamed for this volatility, not the whales but we are the ones. I don't think bots can do better than us but some traders found it more useful today especially when we have a job that needs to fulfill. And thinking that we used to manipulate the market prices, I don't think so. Bitcoin remains decentralized and I believe that's the reason why people trusted this one.

Yeah it was manipulated but I guess the people who can be able to manipulated it just for those who have a regulation, not bot, not whales as you may thinking. As you may know the movement price of bitcoin is depend on the user itself and the user will decide to sell and buy based on speculation and speculation will come from the development of bitcoin itself and also the regulation from government or some companies who have a popularity. I won't think bad for the user of bitcoin, because bitcoin has the current price just because of them and there is no single person who can do that.

I would not want to believe this mate, I am not doubting you completely but just my personal opinion because I know that we have thousands of people that are holding bitcoin, and not many of them even knows how to use bot for price manipulation, only the whales do manipulate price and it is also few of them that uses bot, and moreover, I don’t think that they really need bot to manipulated the market if they really have the fund.

All they have been doing to create panic sell to buy the coin while the create FOMO price for them to sell and exit the market, so if you are looking for whoever is manipulating the market, you may not really get an answer to that which you are looking for mate. Just learn to flow along with the manipulation and you will make your own profit from it also.

Isn't manipulation the same thing as controlling?  I am sure traders are behind these bots.  But did you know that even bots compete with each other?  Those who have fund to buy bots try to buy the best bots on the market but these bots can easily get busted by a single huge dump or huge buy. So I do not think that Bots are actually controlling the Bitcoin prices, but for sure whales do.

If about bot in market, maybe people already know. But bot to control bitcoin price i don't think so. Is is more simple to make people get FOMO and then do panic buy to pump the coin, and then make people do panic sell to dump price of bitcoin.

Satoshi does not have some kind of secret code in bitcoin that allows him to manipulate the price at will, the code of bitcoin is out there for anyone to check and you can see if there is something hidden if you do not trust him, but it is possible exchanges are trying to manipulate the price of bitcoin in order to extract more money from their customers but even for them it will be impossible to control the market since they cannot control the demand or the supply of bitcoin.

If your a billionaire you can manipulate 2 or 3 markets at a time but its very expensive to execute how much more if you want to influence the whole market not impossible but sounds crazy when you use bots. Unless you have an organization of billionaires that is willing to sacrifice their money just to manipulate or control the market price simultaneously.

Of course, the price of Bitcoin is been controlled, but it's not controlled by man made bot or some specific people but by me and you; we the traders and investors.
Though whales contributes too but we investors and traders manipulates or controls the price of Bitcoin through FUDs, FOMO ad panic selling.

Shock discovery in markets as people wanting to make profits discovered.    Is this news that people will try all sorts of tricks to try flush people out of their position before then rebuying their BTC or anything which gets them a profit.   The idea that self interested parties are going to undermine a market is not a new one, it just doesnt especially cause the negative that people imagine.   The biggest trends in market price are decided when everyone agrees and that can be quite ironic, when everyone takes profit at a common price it suddenly becomes the top.    If many people have varied ideas then we have no clear trend, it may take time for people to get tired of waiting and gradually the sale of BTC causes weakness in the price or whatever.
   We dont have giant whales with puppet strings controlling everything, one exchange I could believe it of but not all of them coordinated to achieve an effect like a secret global conspiracy.   Bitcoin has the widest distribution of the blockchains, if you want to see a false market look at Ripple which has giant stores of their token just being held back.    FIAT itself is not a true market as each central bank undermines any free market holder of their currency, because they have the ability to create giant amounts as and when they feel like it and they have no requirement to ever undo the QE programs performed as the people will pay with their public pension money now greatly undermined in value.

Does it help them to gain more profit? I'd never think that would be their intention. Maybe they'll do that earlier but I don't believe that they still committing at this time for some point that it seems to be helpless anymore and not even productive. The market still unpredictable and its volatility turning into bad which I don't think there is market manipulation happening around but this is purely market fluctuations.

Lol. Sad how little you know about bitcoin/cryptocurrencies and the market. Creating bitcoin is one thing, and its existence in the market that is the price is another thing. You saying shit as if someone who created the coin can easily set the price by changing some protocols/code. The market is decentralized and there no hidden "mystery". So according to you, if someone (who created) knows how to manipulate the market, then each and everyone out there will also know how to manipulate the market.

Controlled = manipulated
It just a different word but have the same meaning in the crypto market.
Whoever has tons of money in their account can buy bitcoin to a certain price and whoever has tons of bitcoin in their wallet can dump the price instantly. And other traders which only have average capital play under those whales who rule the market.

https://i.imgsafe.org/b2/b2b5e6c3f5.jpeg

According to data on this website https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html only less than 3% of the highest Bitcoin holders which we usually call whales. Do you think they really can control the other 97%? I want to know your opinion on this matter.

The price is driven by the demand and the free market and it is true that bots exist in exchange to keep the trades and offers going in the market, but the big factor of the market price is done by the traders themselves. It can be manipulated if you have a big amount of bitcoin/fiat but the result of the price still depends on how will traders or investors react once a massive buy or sell off occurs.

I've been trying to find some pattern that these bots use and either trade with them or against them but its very difficult to catch. One thing I noticed was that during a start of a new daily candle there can be some pump or dump which happens almost in the first 10 minutes or so however this doesn't help because you don't know which way its going to go.

I tried to do research and find some pattern like it pumps when the previous daily candle close is bull or vice versa and still haven't really found a pattern.

There are also some bots which try and catch the funding rate on future exchanges like Bitmex if its very high. Say if the funding rate is > 0.10% per 8 hours then usually right after the funding there is a pump/dump however impossible to catch since the server is overloaded, need to use a different exchange. It works maybe 70% of the time.

I understand that there are markets that manipulate prices but I think bots cannot function like that, yes they are accustomed to trading but not to control prices. But it helps humans when buying and selling at a certain price.
Sometimes market can be manipulated by exchange itself. in this case, the exchange manipulates its trading volume to attract many traders into it, but there are also whales who control the market price

According to the data "top 100 richest bitcoin addresses", there are 106 addresses that have 10,000-10,0000 bitcoin, it should be more than enough to control the market although it less than 0.1%.
Most of those 100 richest addresses belong to major exchanges like binance cold-wallet, huobi cold-wallet and bittrex cold-wallet and others probably belong to miners addresses.
The fact is even BTC163,664 binance cold-wallet only 0.9% of total coins, with only 0.9% the price in the exchange market (binance) can drop in a significant number, let aside 10,000 bitcoin, if it can be dumped to various major exchanges, the global price will be crash for sure.

I do not know if someone truly controlled or manipulated the price of bitcoin. But, I'm pretty sure if you are a whale or simply a person who has a lot of bitcoin in a wallet you can truly have a chance to control the price. I also do not have any idea about the bot who control the price in the market and no one knows who are the people who control the market. But for me, it's totally hard to control the price and if ever someone who can manipulate the price I'm pretty sure that in just seconds can dump the price.

Group of whales or those early adopter or miner might be behind these manipulation, I don't think also bot is able to be controlled in such away it will determine the price. Bot are limited in operations it can't determine a lot unless operated by an individual that will input commands in a certain event. I will still just believe that it's due to a group that causes the manipulation that we certainly feel in a long run not just seconds.

i don't think you can call those "bots", these things are more like predefined scripts that run on the internet trying to repeat the same thing in an infinite loop. a true trading bot is not something that keeps placing bets opening new orders in the order book that could easily be fooled into executing the big red stop loss button and lead to a loss.
as for "control", people say that because they are looking for someone or something to blame so what better than bots?!

Blame the whales is better ;D
it's not the "bots" but the man whales behind the "gun bots"
They are trying to manipulate the market by controlling anxieties of the people, who know where the price heading next, they do.

I don't think you understand how bots work or what is the logic behind their buy sell movements. Selling and buying through bots do not give them infinite free money, they are still limited by the amount the bot controller has. If the bots do not have money, they cannot be selling or buying anything.

The market is being manipulate and it is very clear as for the bots that you are talking it could be everyone who is into trading,
We could see that there are so many bots that are being used for trading so those bots that you think that controls the market could be controlled by plenty of people,
While we are sure that the market could be manipulated by the whales because they could easily create a waves of order and the price could move instantly .

Well, since so many users claim that the price and market are being controlled and manipulated I wonder where all decentralization and independency of Bitcoin have gone? Is there then any difference of crypto compared to traditional currencies and financial system? It seems that we are having two systems that are actually the same if all this is true.

I think only certain markets that use bots. Because their markets are deserted and bots are just to lure traders to trade on their marketplaces.
But there are also bots to manipulate the price so that they are tempted and suffer losses. So behind the bot yes because their market is quiet.

Exactly!! In my opinion it doesn't depend on what percentage of people hold the most Bitcoin, but we can judge it from how much Bitcoin is held by 1 person.
If one person holds Bitcoin thousands of times compared to other holders, it is clear he can freely manipulate the market with the amount of funds he has.

Yes that's logical as those users how has huge amount to bitcoin can manipulate the market it's not only the case of bitcoin or cryptocurrency market but it applies to other risk investment as well.  Basically it can be classified as one man greed or his tactics to earn more profit,  we cannot do much about this and the best we could do is we can avoid reacting to these situation.

It is not possible for Bots to actually do a perfect job of manipulating the market this way, it will still take human input for the market to be manipulated as much as it is being manipulated right now, and I think majority of the manipulation comes from whales and some financial institutions because they have the money that is needed to make the manipulation happen which is always to their own favor, and this we really cannot do much about it than to follow the advice of a mate that says we should try to actually flow along with the whales movement which actually requires the studying of the market carefully and also to be able to work with the technical analysis like the way traders does because it is through technical analyses that we can actually get the operation of the whales out.

I think bots are really not as little as people think they are. I mean I know just one bot that has 10k users and they have over 2k active traders all around the exchanges every single day. Yes, that is just one bot but we don't know how much they are using , maybe they are each using 1k satoshi, maybe they each use 1k dollars, maybe they use 1 btc.

So, if that is just one of them that means there are tens of them out there and some are bigger, some are smaller etc which equals to a lot of money going through just the bots. Considering there are whales and manipulators etc all of them combined make for a very very fake market, the people who buy and sell bitcoin manually because they want to invest or divest are probably closer to 10% of the real volume.

It is true that bitcoin is built upon the idea of decentralization but no matter what you do it will be impossible to avoid manipulation, humans are always going to try to get an advantage and they will always find a way to get it, whales have hundreds of thousands of coins and that is more than enough capital to manipulate the price of bitcoin, now they cannot manipulate the price completely as they want but they can exert enough control over the market to get benefits out of it.