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Title: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: vlom on October 18, 2019, 06:07:15 PM That was a short marriage.
Does anybody have any background information? E-Mail: Quote Hello Poloniex Customer, Today we are very excited to announce that Poloniex will be spinning out from Circle into a new company called Polo Digital Assets, Ltd. This new company will have the full backing of a major Asian investment group, who plans to spend more than $100M to develop and introduce new features, assets, and services for their global customer base. We are incredibly excited to continue working with you and the rest of the global Poloniex community. We have a wide range of exciting new features and capabilities planned for the exchange starting with 0% spot trading fees until the end of the year, starting on October 21, 2019! As part of the spinout, Circle will cease all trading operations for US customers on November 1, 2019. As a non-US customer, there is no action you need to take at this time. The full announcement can be found here and our Customer Support team is available to answer any questions you may have. Simply reply to this message and we will get back to you quickly. Team Poloniex Blogpost: https://medium.com/circle-trader/poloniex-spins-out-from-circle-with-new-backing-global-focus-5a19357bdaee Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: squatter on October 18, 2019, 06:53:48 PM Great job, Circle! They bought Poloniex at the top of the 2017 bubble, ran it into the ground -- including this margin lending disaster (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5151636.0) -- and now they've sold it off.
Maybe this is a good sign. Circle obviously has a penchant for bad timing. Remember when they pulled out of the Bitcoin exchange business in December 2016 (https://techcrunch.com/2016/12/07/circle-removes-ability-to-buy-and-sell-bitcoin-as-it-doubles-down-on-mobile-payments/), right before the market exploded? Maybe this is one of those times... Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 18, 2019, 08:58:58 PM What is the definition of 'spinning out'?
Is this a de facto letting go of it to completely new operators or just recasting it with a new arrangement in a new jurisdiction? Circle are slowly becoming almost as good a contrarian indicator as CNBC so I guess this means alt season isn't far away. They got rid of their BTC retailing just before the opportunity to make hundreds of millions of dollars arrived. They bought this just as alts flew down the toilet in early 2018. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: Pearls Before Swine on October 18, 2019, 09:03:47 PM Does anybody have any background information? I don't have any of that but I did get the e-mail. Fortunately I have no funds on polo and haven't used them for a while. I had not realized they were bought by circle and I'd previously thought that had *just* happened. I guess the asian company that bought them doesn't want anything to do with the U.S., but oh well. Makes me wonder how many other exchanges are going to stop offering services to the states, and I do wonder why this is occuring. What is the definition of 'spinning out'? I think they made up that phrase, because I've certainly never heard it used in a context like this one. They actually sound like idiots for using it.Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 18, 2019, 09:08:57 PM Makes me wonder how many other exchanges are going to stop offering services to the states, and I do wonder why this is occuring. No way will the places that have gone to the trouble of legitimising themselves in the US let go now. Circle have been whining about US compliance for quite some time - https://cryptoslate.com/circle-poloniex-us-bermuda-regulatory-uncertainty/ - so I presume they hadn't put the time or money in unlike places such as Gemini and Coinbase. Since this was only 3 months ago I guess something went wrong. According to this - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/circle-insiders-justin-sun-leading-192808377.html The wholly credible Justin Sun is playing a part in its takeover. Um... awesome. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on October 18, 2019, 09:56:23 PM <snip> Appreciate the info and the link. This is quite interesting:Quote According to data provided by crypto researcher Larry Cermak, Poloniex had a 58 percent market share in April 2017. This is a far cry from the 1 percent share it has in the crypto market it has now. Interesting and laughable at the same time. How da fuq can an exchange fall so far so fast? One thing that irritates me about that article is that it alludes to some vague "regulatory pressure" without saying what exactly is going on. I realize FB's Libra is getting a hard time, but is there something else going on in the US as far as laws being passed regarding crypto? What's the pressure and where is it coming from? I want to know these things. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: squatter on October 18, 2019, 10:12:06 PM What is the definition of 'spinning out'? Is this a de facto letting go of it to completely new operators or just recasting it with a new arrangement in a new jurisdiction? This reads to me like they're selling it off entirely: Quote This new company will have the full backing of a major Asian investment group Circle are slowly becoming almost as good a contrarian indicator as CNBC so I guess this means alt season isn't far away. They got rid of their BTC retailing just before the opportunity to make hundreds of millions of dollars arrived. They bought this just as alts flew down the toilet in early 2018. They're 2 for 2! This move gives me hope that the market might pick up in the coming months. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: countryfree on October 18, 2019, 10:37:13 PM I've received the email, and as an old Poloniex customer, I have the suggestion to make to the new owners: they should pay what they've stolen to their customers!
I'm not totally sure Poloniex has a new owner, though. Could be the same guy. He couldn't find any investor in the US, but he found one in Asia? I'm waiting for more information. One thing for sure: nobody will miss Circle. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 18, 2019, 11:56:59 PM One thing that irritates me about that article is that it alludes to some vague "regulatory pressure" without saying what exactly is going on. Presumably because they're so much more shitcoin heavy than somewhere like Gemini. There's the securities issue and there might be retrospective hassle from all the junk they've listed over the years. They may not have done anything wrong but they might be getting requests to cooperate with things. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 19, 2019, 09:21:18 AM Someone linked to this on Reddit - https://www.nmlsconsumeraccess.org/EntityDetails.aspx/COMPANY/1486722
If you hit the view all details in the State Licenses/Registrations section you'll see they only have one active money transmitter licence for the 9 states listed. The others are listed as 'voluntary surrender'. I wonder what that means. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: Artemis3 on October 20, 2019, 08:41:21 PM I wonder if this will be the end of the USDC tab, and if Polo will launch their own token, because that's the trend nowdays...
Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: squatter on October 20, 2019, 09:31:56 PM One thing that irritates me about that article is that it alludes to some vague "regulatory pressure" without saying what exactly is going on. Presumably because they're so much more shitcoin heavy than somewhere like Gemini. There's the securities issue and there might be retrospective hassle from all the junk they've listed over the years. They may not have done anything wrong but they might be getting requests to cooperate with things. When Circle bought Poloniex, the SEC was involved and they indicated they wouldn't pursue enforcement actions for past behavior (https://twitter.com/nathanielpopper/status/968202570719117313?lang=en). But now they seem to be pressuring them to de-list tokens left and right -- Bittrex and Poloniex have both been removing lots of US markets, and Binance booted US traders entirely. That's obviously part of what's going on. They were hoping to be a licensed ATS, fully registered as a broker dealer. The fact that they are now exiting the US market instead spells out that the SEC made it completely impossible. I wonder if this will be the end of the USDC tab Could be. That's Circle's (and Coinbase's) product, not Poloniex's. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: figmentofmyass on October 20, 2019, 11:16:05 PM According to this - https://finance.yahoo.com/news/circle-insiders-justin-sun-leading-192808377.html The wholly credible Justin Sun is playing a part in its takeover. Um... awesome. lol, thanks for sharing. this actually makes a lot more sense now. i was wondering why anyone would buy poloniex since there's no saving its brand at this point. i guess poloniex 2.0 will be heavily promoting tron and bittorrent token. TRX base pairs, most likely. if roger ver can do it, why not justin sun? :D Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: PrimeNumber7 on October 21, 2019, 06:27:20 AM What is the definition of 'spinning out'? The term "spinning off" is:Quote from: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/spinoff.asp A spinoff is the creation of an independent company through the sale or distribution of new shares of an existing business or division of a parent company. A spinoff is a type of divestiture. The spun-off companies are expected to be worth more as independent entities than as parts of a larger business. A spinoff is also known as a spin out or starbust. The company will presumably be independent of Circle, and will probably be owned by a separate group of investors. My suspicion is that poloniex is being sold so Circle can rid its possible liability from margin lenders' losses resulting from over leverage from clam margin positions. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 21, 2019, 09:24:57 AM My suspicion is that poloniex is being sold so Circle can rid its possible liability from margin lenders' losses resulting from over leverage from clam margin positions. From what I can glean about that incident it's pure tough titty for those lenders. No one else cares and no way would Circle get rid of their $400 million balls up just to duck those peons. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: magneto on October 21, 2019, 09:40:07 AM Didn't make sense the amount of hype that was put into circle's acquisition of poloniex in the first place. People somehow saw it as an opportunity for poloniex to really expand their horizons, when in reality they pretty much did nothing after the acquisition.
The damage had already been done with the incompetence of their support as well as the constantly pending withdrawals, etc. beforehand and never have really been fixed. It's really a non-issue. Poloniex will most likely continue their current business model and not change anything drastic regardless of what happens to ownership. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 21, 2019, 09:54:33 AM Didn't make sense the amount of hype that was put into circle's acquisition of poloniex in the first place. People somehow saw it as an opportunity for poloniex to really expand their horizons, when in reality they pretty much did nothing after the acquisition. They well and truly soiled their rep with this one. Any one of us lot could've done a vastly better job with a few mates and 1/100th of the money. If I were a heavyweight investor no way would I put any money into them after this performance, however investmentland seems to operate in a parallel universe where miserable failure and no effort whatsoever appears to be zero hindrance to gaining funding for even more future squanderage. In the decades to come people will look back at the internet VC stuff and wonder what on Earth was going on. How was competence, graft, honesty and the actual delivery of results taken out of the equation for so long? Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: figmentofmyass on October 21, 2019, 10:04:10 AM It's really a non-issue. Poloniex will most likely continue their current business model and not change anything drastic regardless of what happens to ownership. except they're pulling outta the USA completely. that's a total 180 right there. now they can relax listing standards or maybe even KYC standards. and also.......justin sun. if he's heading the asian investment group, poloniex will undoubtedly be used to pump TRX and BTT. poloniex : tron bitcoin.com : bcash i could see them launching a BNB-style token too. so many options..... Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: countryfree on October 21, 2019, 04:41:26 PM and also.......justin sun. if he's heading the asian investment group, poloniex will undoubtedly be used to pump TRX and BTT. No, not him. He denied the whole thing. https://cointelegraph.com/news/im-not-buying-anything-says-tron-ceo-amid-reports-of-poloniex-acquisition So, who else? Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: figmentofmyass on October 21, 2019, 09:52:16 PM and also.......justin sun. if he's heading the asian investment group, poloniex will undoubtedly be used to pump TRX and BTT. No, not him. He denied the whole thing. https://cointelegraph.com/news/im-not-buying-anything-says-tron-ceo-amid-reports-of-poloniex-acquisition So, who else? back to square one eh? without the altcoin pump angle, the deal doesn't make sense to me. we know why circle wants out, but why would anyone pay $100m for a dying exchange in a saturated market? at 1800 BTC volume per day it's a skeleton of its former self. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: countryfree on October 23, 2019, 05:54:28 PM and also.......justin sun. if he's heading the asian investment group, poloniex will undoubtedly be used to pump TRX and BTT. No, not him. He denied the whole thing. https://cointelegraph.com/news/im-not-buying-anything-says-tron-ceo-amid-reports-of-poloniex-acquisition So, who else? back to square one eh? without the altcoin pump angle, the deal doesn't make sense to me. we know why circle wants out, but why would anyone pay $100m for a dying exchange in a saturated market? at 1800 BTC volume per day it's a skeleton of its former self. Well, I guess that if someone wants to start a new exchange, it might be a better idea to buy Poloniex than start from scratch... Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: gentlemand on October 23, 2019, 05:59:45 PM Well, I guess that if someone wants to start a new exchange, it might be a better idea to buy Poloniex than start from scratch... I wonder about that. Can you think of anywhere that's come back from the near dead? I'm struggling. Either places stay relevant with the occasional lull or they fade away and never return. Once your time in the sun is over it appears to remain over. If the figures being thrown around are correct I'd rather start with a clean slate and throw out some lures to all those alt fans out there. They're pure hookers anyway. Without the US, Circle's utter waste of the opportunity and the recent ill will about the margin thing it doesn't exactly feel like a hot property. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: figmentofmyass on October 24, 2019, 07:15:55 PM Well, I guess that if someone wants to start a new exchange, it might be a better idea to buy Poloniex than start from scratch... I wonder about that. Can you think of anywhere that's come back from the near dead? I'm struggling. Either places stay relevant with the occasional lull or they fade away and never return. Once your time in the sun is over it appears to remain over. their only shot is a complete rebrand IMO. there's definitely value in their database and that's what this investment group is paying for---they have moderate volume, market makers, loyal customers, and a working business. but they can't use the poloniex name and expect to blow up. if they time their rebranding right---launching on the cusp of an altcoin bubble---and pour enough money into marketing and trading promotions, there's a chance. but not as "poloniex". that's like when a shitty restaurant hangs up an "under new management" sign. that's not drawing anyone in. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: DooMAD on October 25, 2019, 01:20:53 PM Seems they've only just got around to sending me an email, probably under the (entirely correct) assumption that I won't be coming back. Whoever it is taking on the new ownership, they're incredibly brave (or possibly just incredibly reckless). Investment-wise, I certainly wouldn't want to go anywhere near Circle's waste products. It's a tainted brand as far as I'm concerned.
their only shot is a complete rebrand IMO. Concurred. A completely new business identity to shed the Circle stench. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: malevolent on October 25, 2019, 02:51:49 PM I've received the email, and as an old Poloniex customer, I have the suggestion to make to the new owners: they should pay what they've stolen to their customers! I'm not totally sure Poloniex has a new owner, though. Could be the same guy. He couldn't find any investor in the US, but he found one in Asia? I'm waiting for more information. One thing for sure: nobody will miss Circle. Maybe he's just brokering the deal, or a minor investor within the investment group who helps with the acquisition. Also, it's unsurprising they couldn't find someone in the US, but found success in Asia (China, most likely). Chinese investors are always looking to invest abroad, but they're sometimes limited, either due to capital controls in China, or countries China has trade wars with making it difficult to accept money from Chinese investors. but not as "poloniex". that's like when a shitty restaurant hangs up an "under new management" sign. that's not drawing anyone in. It worked for btc-e/wex. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: countryfree on October 25, 2019, 04:42:28 PM but not as "poloniex". that's like when a shitty restaurant hangs up an "under new management" sign. that's not drawing anyone in. It worked for btc-e/wex. The software is still good. Poloniex's website remains one of the easiest to trade BTC and altcoins. I guess the new owners (if there are new owners) must be very open, publishing pictures and bios of everybody working for the company. A video of the staff replying to customers would also help. Of course, the beginning would be to pay back what the company has stolen under the old management... Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: carlfebz2 on October 25, 2019, 05:02:09 PM but not as "poloniex". that's like when a shitty restaurant hangs up an "under new management" sign. that's not drawing anyone in. It worked for btc-e/wex. The software is still good. Poloniex's website remains one of the easiest to trade BTC and altcoins. I guess the new owners (if there are new owners) must be very open, publishing pictures and bios of everybody working for the company. A video of the staff replying to customers would also help. Of course, the beginning would be to pay back what the company has stolen under the old management... still abide the same strict centralization in case of change hands.I cant deny that their platform is still reliable the only culprit here why they do drop their popularity is on when Circle handle it out.Spinning out might give some chance but all will vary on how it will handle out. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: enhu on October 25, 2019, 05:15:51 PM but not as "poloniex". that's like when a shitty restaurant hangs up an "under new management" sign. that's not drawing anyone in. It worked for btc-e/wex. The software is still good. Poloniex's website remains one of the easiest to trade BTC and altcoins. I guess the new owners (if there are new owners) must be very open, publishing pictures and bios of everybody working for the company. A video of the staff replying to customers would also help. Of course, the beginning would be to pay back what the company has stolen under the old management... still abide the same strict centralization in case of change hands.I cant deny that their platform is still reliable the only culprit here why they do drop their popularity is on when Circle handle it out.Spinning out might give some chance but all will vary on how it will handle out. With Justine Sun and promoting is in Asian market, he might just make Polo regain again its former glory. Reasonable to see why they taking out US market in the picture because they are going to be relaunching it on Asia. Chinese literally buying companies in US is not rare to do, the Chinese had been doing it for years including the companies in the manufacturing industries and then sending all its assembly lines to China. Anyway, Justine could help but just to confirm that the Asian market for crypto is going to be evident that even Xi Ping is announcing its blockchain adoption. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: sikke on October 26, 2019, 08:27:55 AM I received the same email today as well.
Very shocked because there was quite a buzz in the community when they were acquired by Circle. People assumed that progress was going to be made in terms of fiat integration, and improving their customer service etc. I still remember it being quite major news back then. However, it turned out to be much ado about nothing. This should really be an non-issue right now. Title: Re: Poloniex to Spin Out of Circle Post by: DooMAD on October 26, 2019, 11:23:52 AM People assumed that progress was going to be made in terms of fiat integration, and improving their customer service etc. Some people, maybe. My expectations were never that high (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3024886.msg31142399#msg31142399). If anything, every time circle's name crop up, my estimations of them sink that little bit lower. |