Bitcoin Forum

I was thinking about different signature campaigns in the forum, and I decided to compare the two biggest and most expensive ones : Chipmixer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935179.0) and CryptoTalk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5188047.msg52571948#msg52571948)

About Chipmixer campaign, in my opinion it is a huge success. It is certainly very expensive: this week payments  (https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/b65d25c7a07bffaa95ba6e6bda3d1dc05a3c188c1f4e9d3ab4693b0e4f718ede)costed 1.3 BTC for 60 members.

The result over more than 100 weeks:
- The most reputable members of the forum are wearing their signature and advertising their service.
- Those users are also very knowledge about bitcoin.
- Those users display that signature in the most important boards of the forum: Technical Discussion, Beginners & Help, Meta,  Technical Support,  Wallets support, and so on. Those members interact with real users and provide support.

Certainly, Chipmixer has a great community support here in this forum. And any new or old user who comes to this forum will notice their brand.

As so many trusted users are wearing their signature, if I would ever use a mixer service, I would try Chipmixer. I know it is not a scam and it is a good service, based  on all those members opinions.

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Now, about Cryptotalk/Yobit
Unfortunately I do not have access to Cryptotalk /Yobit payments, but I tried to estimate it.
They are paying 0.00012 to 0.00020 per post, depending on their rank. The average is 0.00016 per post, so I worked with that number. There is also a limit of 10 posts per day.

This way, if a user from this campaign makes 50 post per week (which is not that hard, as you are free to spam or make low quality posts), this user will receive 0.008 btc per week.

I don't have the access to how many users are participating in the campaign, but I will use 200, based on this post:

I saw this post from Yahoo:

The total cost of Yobit/Cryptotalk campaign is, according to my estimations, 200*0.008 = 1.6 BTC per week.
But let's suppose it is the same as chipmixer, 1.3.

So, what are the results?
- Lots of complains in reputation board.
- Lots of useless posts in megathreads where nobody reads anything.
- Only Google reads their posts.
- Controvert community support. Most of the forum members don't like or respect Yobit, while those are getting paid provide some support.
- Members who participated before in their campaigns had their reputation damaged in the past.


I know Yahoo is trying to keep it spam clean, but unfortunately the users are just dumb and don't know how to post (do not read before writing, don't have proper english, don't have any knowledge about any related topic, etc). Of course there are some exceptions and a few reputable members are in Cryptotalk campaign, but they are mostly unnoticed. Personally, if I see this signature I just skip his post.


Isn't it much better for Yobit to make a signature campaign with reputable members only? Choose users based on their participation on the forum, not in their ranks. The cost is the same or maybe even lower.

personally, based on their signature campaign, I would hardly use their service. Imo, this campaign damaged their reputation.

They could have spent the same amount of money and made a very nice campaign, with reputable members wearing their brand while supporting newbies and advanced users, instead of spamming around.

Why did they prefer this crazy campaign format? What am I missing?
50 good members posting 30 posts per week is much better than 500 spammers spamming 70 posts per week, isnt it?

It's about visibility and traffic. In advertising even bad press is a net benefit for most. They are really trying to funnel users away from Bitcointalk to their forum, and have the money to spend to do so. So sure they could pay 20-60 users more and receive less visibility,but with a higher quality of posting - which doesn't matter to them; or they can receive 2000 (200 users 10 posts) posts per day that offer a "new exciting" forum. That really has no blatant ties to Yobit in the signature, unless you have been here for a while and know it's them.

Consider it like blanketing a parking lot at a mall with flyers. they are annoying useless and overall bad for the environment. It will still get a lot of eyes on whatever the advert is.

Yobit is like creating buzz about their service from that they are getting attention of forum member which is not happening with chipmixer they wanted to make the things realistic and more longer so that their reputation also increases over long term.

I don't know why yobit not interested in creating the campaigns in the traditional way of hiring campaign manager then creating service thread and start hiring participants.

They can do all the things they do like since its their money after all and the arrangement on how the camp would run.

They already experienced sig ban in the past thats why they do consider on getting a manager to somewhat able to avoid 2nd sig ban in the future.
Complaints do keep on coming and we have seen on how yahoo able to banned those spammers into that campaign but it isnt really that enough.

Chipmixer is way too far when it comes to quality.Even if they do had that 50 post per week requirement, you cant really see any complaints
from the community about shit posting.

Well, Yobit does only care for maximum exposure thats why they dont limit out the number participants that would able to join on the camp
they dont matter on the spam it would generate.

Different business models really. YoBit has always been about the big returns and small investments that comes with terrible quality posters. ChipMixer is exactly the opposite. As a company, you'd want as much exposure on the forum and getting returns on every penny invested. YoBit does it precisely but doesn't care how it degrades the quality of the platform. They're literally banned from conducting campaigns here and yet they continue to do so. Their goals seem pretty straight forward, direct the traffic from here to their forum which I think is working well at the moment.

well do the math---yobit is getting tens of thousands more posts each week for the same price. that's a hell of a lot of backlinks for google.

they're obviously aiming at a very different demographic than chipmixer too. their ads are literally aimed at low level spammers, who they are trying to recruit on their site. chipmixer, on the other hand, is trying to establish a reputable brand.

Chipmixer signature campaign running around 2.5 years. I don't know if they advertise somewhere else, but obviously, if he pays 1.3BTC weekly, he earns much more than that. I remember Bitmixer as a default mixing service, they also run one of the best signature campaigns in his time. Now is Chipmixer on this place.
Yobit already creates some profit with or without sig. campaign. We can not know the results of his sig.campaign without information from there. Also, his campaign operates just one month and it is not possible to compare with any long-run campaign.

In my case, if I need mixer service, probably I will use Chipmixer (signature campaign it helps to my decision).
I still use Yobit to exchange some altcoins which are listed only there. Exchange and withdraw immediately, but it is all minor. The signature campaign has nothing to do with it and can't improve my attitude to Yobit exchange.

Let's analyze how Cryptotalk performance so far after more than a month of advertising here and are they getting their money's worth
so far they are doing great in terms of page rank and traffic rank

To be fair, some people who wear Cryptotalk's signature make high-quality posts and that signature has contributed to the return of some distinguished members.
The promotion of this forum is not limited to the number of clicks with links to signatures, but the installation of the name of the account or site in your head. We all now know crypto name and therefore it is considered a profit for those who are comfortable earning from the posts and therefore some will visit.
The real challenge is how long will the company pay for advertising the site? Will they make a return from that? What happens when payments stop? Will it be an empty version of the serious discussion board?

I don’t think that the Chipmixer signature campaign clogs the forum less. The number of posts less of course, and the quality of posts, if a set of extra characters and common phrases can be called quality is also good. But why there need to compare 2 campaigns if the priority of the one which pay rate higher is obvious, but the chipmixer has excessive requirements.

A brand who've established to become the most reputable mixing service in a cryptoworld that likely obvious because they have the most reputable and decent quality poster participants that gives them the benefits of having a great advertiser.

And a brand who've known at the past as one of the shady exchange that had a lot of bad activities of pump and dump scheme but now that having a great campaign manager who manages now their signature campaign and now have somehow good posters who's slowly gaining some reputation is such a great achievement.

i'm trying to figure out yobit's motivation for launching cryptotalk. i figure they must plan to use it as a venue to pump markets, hype up their IEOs, etc. otherwise i don't know why it would warrant such investment.

it's completely built on paid posts so if you take them away, not much will be left. at the same time, the campaigns can be paid for by a tiny % of yobit's overall revenues. it's a drop in the bucket for them so maybe they will keep paying.

No they are not having excessive requirements,they just maintain their standard far better than other campaigns and also they hired most of the trusted and recognized members in this forum so they are paying good rate per post but the real reason of paying good rate to the quality post is they are getting more exposure about their service so they are making more money than funds allocated for their signature campaign.

I'm finding the whole thing rather befuddling. I don't know if Yobit has a trollbox but that's the most natural place to plant their manipulations. They can also place permanent banners on the trading pages which would be vastly more potent than attempting to draw people to a separate site.

And since the site pays to post you're going to get what you get here x100. No one is going to read anyone else's posts so nothing you attempt to plant is going to sink in. I can't imagine anyone would peruse it for worthwhile info. The only users you'll get there will be shitposters shitposting at each other who don't even know or care what they're shitposting about.

Interested to see what the end game is here. If nothing else I've never seen an approach quite like it before.

It's to avoid spammers like you.

I knew a forum who did this in the past, and they died a few weeks later. I don't think this will end differently.

In my opinion (but also some other members), YoBit is without any doubt has a very bad reputation in this forum, but also in general. A way around that problem is to create forum, but with a direct link to their exchange (you need account there to get pay), and a lot of links to YoBit on that forum. It is a win-win situation for them, no matter from which side it is looked at.

However, I will never agree with the way they do it (unlimited spots, no quality/merit requirement), and despite manager effort to control them, we have hundreds users who would never be accepted into any other signature campaign then cryptotalk.

The only comparison between ChipMixer and cyptotalk is in the amount of BTC which are paid on a weekly/monthly basis if OP is calculated that correctly.

Im aware with that forum you've been talking but i totally forgot the name.We cant say it would end up the same yet if they do decide to
spend some btc for promotions then no doubt this forum will live for a while.

There were some talks that they might launch an another shitpost competition into that forum and no surprise that it would be infested again by those abusers.

Which service are you talking about ? They are not promoting Yobit directly, they are promoting their forum , Cryptotalk and till date they have managed to get the traffic and focus, although by the wrong spamming way.

The purpose of chipmixer and cryptotalk are different. Chipmixer needs investors as when you mix the coins, you pay the fee and spammers will never invest.  On the other hand, a forum Cryptotalk need traffic only and no investment from the end users, so even if they choose people to spam, they will still manage to get the traffic.

That forum name was icoforums.net but that was a very small project as compare to crytotalk funded by yobit.net.

Even if they do not start a new competition, the posting on that forum will never stop as they are still paying 1000 satoshi to each and every single post and comment.

Unless they stop. That's the point. ICOForums had traffic while people were getting paid for that. When that was over, the forum died.

Spammers will only stay in CryptoTalk until they end the 1000 sat/post campaign (if they do).

I think you are a bit confused.
Mixing coins is not an investment, but a service you pay for. Nobody invests in chipmixer. People pay for a service (mixing coins)


Both are connected, yobit and cryptotalk. Cryptotalk reputation is binded to yobit because they are part of the same company.
They are paying for the traffic, and this what we are talking about here. Will it survive without community support?


That's the idea. As both are very expensive and big (lots of members involved, even in chipmixer) , I was comparing community sentiment about them

I was not confused but wrongly used the word "Investment" instead of "fee for using the service" .  My Mistake.
Just thinking on which of the two have more funds to invest. Chipmixer source of income is the fee only which they get from their users while cryptotalk has the whole Yobit exchange with them for funding.

Interesting comparison, it's obvious that Chipmixer, Cryptotalk and their campaigns is completely opposite business models.
But I'm wondering what is the goal of this campaign and Cryptotalk forum. It's obvious that it costs a lot for Yobit. But what returns they are planning to get from campaign. I doubt that they are making money from Cryptotalk forum, I don't even know, do they have paid ads on it or not. Also, there is no direct promotion of Yobit on this forum. And it's obvious that it will turn into ghost forum immediately after they will stop paying for posts there. I really don't understand their goal with this campaign.
But maybe when Cryptotalk will be shown high in Google search results, Yobit will use it to promote their exchanges and things like pump and dump schemes, IEO's and othervshady stuff...

The most incredible is that they charge no fees. They live on donations.

If they were to become a competitor to Bitcointalk then they could probably sell advertisements on their site just like this one does and earn a substantial amount of money back but there are also other benefits from moderating their own forum and thats biased opinions about their exchange. They could change their moderation policies in a number of years and destroy freedom of speech. I don't think they will be using the forum just for a way to communicate amount cryptocurrencies and theres a motive in paying this much for a forum.

I have to disagree there. I mean why would a company like YoBit which makes huge profits through the exchange want to rely on advertising as their primary source of profit? They obviously are looking at the bigger picture and that doesn't sound very ethical. For instance, they can use the massive traffic to spread FUD, pump and dump coins which they do now anyway but they will have a much bigger audience to do so.

The only difference I see in Cryptotalk campaign if compare with other campaigns is that there is no participant selection process beforehand. Direct enrollments are the only reason for such massive spams imo and that's the reason Yahoo got in to cut it down, he probably kicked out 300+ so far (didn't count myself). When Yobit hired Yahoo I was a little bit shocked, they got the lesson from the ban and they want to follow the rule, that is a good thing. I was a bit more shocked when they cut the post limit to half, that's another good thing. The thing is they are changing, slowly but they are changing.

If they continue their Cryptotalk campaign then they may change a lot of things in the future and maybe Yahoo is suggesting to them the right things. They are spending a good amount per week and if they utilize it the right way then the campaign will be another good one. It is not necessary to pay the same as Chipmixer, it could be half. And most importantly I prefer a selection process.

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If Yobit's intention is to beat Bitcointalk down by building an alternative (Cryptotalk) then they are 100% wrong, even a million BTC budget can't help out. It's because Bitcointalk is a place where there is Freedom of Speech, we can say anything about BTCT, we can say anything about any project, we can even say anything to Thermos. But if anyone writes against Yobit in Cryptotalk it will definitely get deleted, so there is no Freedom of Speech. The only way Cryptotalk can survive is by paying 1k sats per post to all its members forever, the day they stop paying the forum will be dead.

Most probably Yobit created that forum for their own promotional thingy so that they can promote anything freely. The reason is they don't have any fans here and they can't promote anything here.

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Now wondering if Yobit kicks me out or not from the campaign for this fu**ing freedom of speech thingy. Did I write anything wrong?

If I was to kick you out it wouldn't be for this post at all. You would have to break the rules of the campaign, the rules of the forum, or just be a pain in the ass to deal with.

I think the word "spam" should be well defined. That will really help.

A member of this forum sent me message to join the cryptotalk campaign while I was in another campaign. I was surprised to be  banned too my friend.
Well, I blamed myself for not ignoring the message.

there has been lots of different forums over the years that were created in a similar fashion to "compete" with bitcointalk and gain some popularity. most of them run default "get paid to post" campaigns by the forum itself and pay little amounts to spammers.
none of them succeed in the long run though specially since they start by encouraging spam because the only attracts spammers while pushing away anybody else.

i was even a part of one of them back in 2015 called bitbiz (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=751691.0). it no longer is a forum today!!!
there are others like cryptocointalk, altcointalk (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=770948.0),... and a lot more.

I think it's an insult comparing the two campaign but I get what you're trying to achieve. Chipmixer is 2yrs+ older than cryptotalk, chipmixer (to some extent) is more than just your average signature campaign, it's like a criteria used to judge individual contribution to the forum, the level of your post quality, reputation etc. Just been considered as a candidate for a slot on the campaign is already an achievement, since it shows you're doing something right. For those who love challenge and competition, they'll prefer chipmixer just because of the criteria requirements.

Now to cryptotalk, without @Yahoo's intervention the campaign won't had lasted as it has done, A major reason the campaign has some decent quality participants is due to the fact of @Yahoo's involvement in the campaign. An indication that points toward a project is benefiting from the forum, is the periods at which they're willing to continue advertising on the forum. Chipmixer has done that for 2yrs plus so lets see how far cryptotalk goes before we can start comparing the two campaign and their different mode of advertisment.

PS: The community is guilty of giving cryptotalk more publicity since it can't stop discussing about them, we should focus this energy on promoting other signature campaigns.

There's no doubt that experienced forum users despise YoBit and Cryptotalk, but is this also the case for more casual users? It might be the case that people who themselves make low quality posts are not viewing other low-quality posts as bad, and thus don't see problems with Cryptotalk and its signature campaign. If a good percentage of views gets converted into clicks, then YoBit has achieved their goal, even if the hardcore bitcointalk community now hates them even more.

IMO,ICOforum spend few thousands of ethereum for four weeks or something so its really not a small budget though,but they managed in campaigns and competitions in wrong way so people steal and abused the contest made the owner to go bankrupt I guess.

Yobit is not like that,they were aware of it and they are not spending money they are just investing to bring more money to their forum via bounties and ads but as far as now the 1k sats per posts keep their forum alive.

The comparison between ChipMixer and CryptoTalk , as the two highest rate sig campaigns , is no longer evident.
Cryptotalk reduced the daily quota for everyday post from 20 to 10 then to 5 .  And in just one week, Hhampuz has started 3 campaigns with higher rate than CryptoTalk.
In my opinion, all of the current/past cmpaigns can be compared to ChipMixer campaign , at all levels.

From the information provided on the Alexa rank website, Cryptotalk.org from September 29 to the present day from position 703676 climbed to position number 91929. It looks like thanks to this campaign CryptoTalk jumped over almost 600,000 other websites! It is said that when it comes to marketing - "it is no matter what they say, it is important that they say" and here the way Yobit / CryptoTalk.org chose for advert works for now.