Bitcoin Forum

The whole world is saddled with gargantuan debt. Countries right now are using debt facility to cover up their inefficiencies and inability to meet their financial needs due to rising number of programs yet decreasing stream of revenues. Aside from the printing of money, borrowing money from anywhere has become the accepted norm. The more money they can hoard from many sources inside and outside their country, the better they feel secured and safe.

But is debt a very secured thing to enter into? Debt can be a big trap and many countries are now starting to feel the heat...soon this on and off heat can be transforming into a fire and an explosion that can engulf not their own country's economy but also can be spreading to neighboring countries as well, just like what we witnessed in the 2008-2009 USA recession.

In the USA alone, national debt is now over $23 trillion, according to website U.S Debt Clock (https://www.usdebtclock.org/). The milestone has been pointed out on Nov. 1 by Bitcoin advocate Twitter personality Rhythm, who also said that every dollar of U.S. national debt is, in fact, a reason to buy Bitcoin (BTC). Another user presented another interesting take adding: “That’s more than $1,000,000 debt per 1 Bitcoin.” (https://www.allurnews.com/en-us/2019/11/02/united-states-national-debt-hits-23-trillion-over-1m-per-bitcoin/)

Indeed, we will soon witness this whole thing explodes right before our eyes. And with this as the backdrop, we should be looking at cryptocurrency seriously as one of the many possible ways we can be protected.

The US government either can print more money to pay off their debt or default which in either case produce more problems in the long run. I agree that with cryptocurrency, most citizens would be able to avoid poverty. But I think what people really need is a stable coin for those who doesn't want to invest in a high volatility coin like Bitcoin. Like for example, euro, yen, or even gold.

Every country can print money like its a school project but every country is prohibited by doing it. The huge problem right away after the printing of money will come and will affect the country's economics in the long run. Printing money not equal to the amount of gold you have in a bank will result in inflation which will not be good for your home country currency.

Printing money to pay off debt, especially when your currency is floated (letting the market determine how much it is worth) is never a good idea. In an extreme case, it was what Germany did after WW1 and it was one of the main reasons why WW2 happened after they went through hyperinflation.

Bitcoin and a lot of other crypto-currencies are definitely good enough to help prevent inflation, but debt? That would be extremely hard to accomplish, and I'm not sure how bitcoin would fit in here.

Printing money to pay off debts is not an option. It will just create inflation and add more problems to the government. Bitcoin can be an option to pay debt but probably not the best option since it's still a risk depending on how the market will perform. And obviously, the government wouldn't take that as an option as well. For individuals, they can use bitcoin to pay their own debt but I doubt that the government will

I don't know how the government deal with national debt but is increasing the tax a way to pay debt?

That's BS if they do that, the fact that they're nothing but corrupt officials. I don't mind paying tax if I see economic growth.


Bitcoin might and could either save us from financial crisis but not in debt, however government will be the first to oppose of this idea and probably be the reason for banning it. We all know only few countries are open to this idea and it surely take years before they realize the potential of having bitcoin.

Gargantuan debt will just pass through the next generation to the other and I'm pretty sure that even our government don't bother to think how they'll pay it.

Nowadays it is hard for humans to avoid debt, because debt is now considered normal. This is wrong in my opinion. The proof is that a person
with a lot of debt has a difficult life and the economy is ruined. Same thing with a country that has a lot of debt, its people life is difficult and
poor. Actually debt is not a financial or economic solution, but debt is a disaster. So from that now banks are becoming more advanced, because
they are increasingly creative in offering various types of loans with high interest. In the same cryptocurrency world, lots of trading capital comes
from debt, that's an unhealthy life. My advice is to avoid it whose name is debt or loan. Bitcoin can be a solution to pay debt but not instant, but in
the long run. Because getting profit from bitcoin needs to be processed.

Bitcoin, as time passes by, becomes more and more relevant and important to the current market situation. In addition, some countries that experience falling economies and high inflation rate are starting to look and use Bitcoin that does not experience real inflation. If these situation would continue, it might be the start of another crisis and this time, Bitcoin and other altcoins might be the safe haven of people to store their funds.

Taxes are at a decently fair rate for my country, and it does work well for where I live, but I obviously wouldn't mind paying less.

The problem with the US and other countries, every country is in debt to another, with countries like Japan being in debt to another, and another country owing them money - the world economy is very weird like that.

It depends on what's going to happen, but this debt isn't actually that bad, everyone owes each other money it all sorta balances out, in a weird way.

When it comes to debt in the US economy, it's horrible. Here are some statistics off a quick google search, it's surpising how tight things are there.


That's crazy, being in almost 40,000 worth of debt, without including other fees like mortgages is a lot of money, around a year of working for the average American after taxes.

Not sure if crypto is the answer to solving this complicated question though.

The funny thing is USA is infact in debt but many countries are in debt of the USA , this is so ridiculous.
It's like everyone is connected into this viscous circle and no one can actually get out of it because people are going to drag you down if they are already down .
There is no charity now a days as people actually are already scared of getting their countrie's economy being pushed into a recession.
This is actually very scary for us.

Yeah, I bet this is why gold and silver have been creeping up in price.  Investors are getting scared of inflated stocks, bonds, inflated *everything* and are looking for something nice and safe. 

This is one of the things I love about bitcoin, that there can't be any inflation of it.  21 million coins and that's it.  I'm also thinking that the exploding debt situations is another reason why bitcoin is rising, even tho it isn't exactly as safe as metals are.  Not even close, actually but still better to hold than some country's debt instruments that could be defaulted on.

Exactly, and I feel like next recession is not very far, people will go back to metals like gold and of course crypto as you mentioned.

You are correct that many humans can't avoid it and its normal to have to borrow money from time to time. However you need to be financially smart when doing so because I've seen too many people get trapped into debt over stuff they don't need.

Its normal for most people to have a mortgage. Most people can't save up and pay cash for a house that is half a million. And its certainly alot smarter than renting. Then there are those people who need a car to get to work. They buy some economy car and pay it off in 5 years.

However I've seen people who make $50K a year and buy a $100K Mercedes-Benz. They are also maxed out on all their credit cards and pay their bills late every month. Its not a money problem because they get paid well but they just took up too much debt and right now its starting to hurt them.

Buying more than they could afford is the way for people to make it appear like they are more successful but in reality, they are struggling to meet ends. These are the ones going to suffer when situations like crisis will happen. Even the businesses who has tons of money in the banks are going to be stolen by government if they really will print more money since the savings they have will have less value after it.

Bitcoin isn't the panacea for the global debt problem,because the global debt actually pumps the bitcoin price.
What you are suggesting is a bad advice.

Actually the debt situation is far worse than advertized. The unsecured US liabilities are 200++trillion. If BTC was to reflect this in true USD accountability we would be looking at 1 Satoshi to 1 USD parity.

Also note that both China and Russian are building up gold reserves. While the USA gold reserve is a meager 8000 tonnes (not even $400 billion at $1500 per ounce)

Looking at the numbers Debt to BTC does have a value and always good to see the comparison if various metrics, but does that mean those who hold debt will take BTC to consider what they are owe. How is a borrower pay debt holder back in BTC if all they get paid in is fiat and invest in fiat? The credit markets are massive across the globe and shouldn't be taken lightly and can/will wreak havoc on a system at various time of cycles which will benefit crypto-currencies and one day this may be considered a direct calculation metric, but seems investment must happen first for the system to achieve a state that can even begin to support a credit market. I think a better metric this early on would be to ask how much asset can actually flow into the crypto market as a % of total assets this stage in the game and who would be investing in such a asset class? I would imagine market cap could be ~$3-$4T (~3-4% assets one would be willing to loose on investment).
 
The $13.51T does include mortgages. Still slicing the numbers a little different shows a little more exaggeration of the health conditions, $13.51T / ~130M = $104k per household, but realize ~56M households would be considered as paying a mortgage.   

The problem is that the people are already in so much debt that they cannot buy bitcoins anymore. During 2017 a lot of people wanted to quickly

get into buying some coins, because the price increased a lot and people thought that they could quickly make some profits by buying low and

then dumping those coins for a quick profit. The only problem back then was that most of those people were buying those coins on credit, because

they were already in trouble and had no disposable money or saving to buy those coins. We are once again in the same situation now, people do not

have extra spare cash to buy before the price goes up.  ::) 

Today it’s quite normal to live and take loans from the state or from banks, but at the same time you need to take into account the interest that the party that gives you the money puts on you.  But in any case, the person who takes the loan, he is counting on something and has something to make sure that this loan will be repaid in the future.  If you work, get a salary and gradually pay a loan, it seems that this process looks stable, but I can’t say this with respect to the cryptocurrency market, because the possibility of repaying the loan that was taken to buy Bitcoin almost looks like a roulette game.

Do we already value crypto with that money? If there is a crypto that has value in itself, lets do it, but it is very difficult to establish such a system for now. In my opinion, the current situation of crypto is not available for this, while we can not use it as a method of payment still. 1 BTC=1 BTC for the future (for now too) yes, but if you exchange all your money to BTC, what are you going to do now?

Having debt has a good advantage as well as disadvantage, if you will learn about the secret of those who become successful, they took the risk for them to have and build their own business, as their monthly income cannot cover their monthly expenses, so what they did is they lend some money from lending services, start a small business, then little by little they made it bigger and bigger, so having debt is good if this is our purpose, but if will have debt just to buy a brand new cellphone just to please everyone and just to make look good and impress other people then it is not good.

That's why most banks have halted or prohibited people from buying bitcoin using credit cards because they know that it'll only add to the problems that they have created themselves together with the governments. While I believe that it's high time that we deviate from using dollars and at the least stock up on some important assets, we do know that banks losing money in their vaults would mean lots and lots of troubles than we already have, so we're kinda in a stalemate situation wherein we're just waiting for the implosion and would just try to pick ourselves from the dirt after all is said and done. That debt isn't going to clear itself; there has to be a catalyst before it's wiped clean on the slate.

There are many ways that the government can use to pay off debt, such as taxes. Tax is one of the government is options to get income from every citizen that can be used to pay off debts. But they seem to have failed to do so because every country has many corrupt officials. This will certainly have an impact on unstable state finances, but I still dont think that the government can use bitcoin as an alternative to paying off debt.
What about their gold supply, can the gold supply be used to pay off debts ?
This is 2017 data, I just don't know the latest data for now. ;D

Your terminology here is pretty incorrect. I would agree that having the option for loans and debt is a good idea, otherwise there would be no people in the world that would be able to afford a house.

Although, I would never say being in debt is a good idea, your opportunities are all restricted and you are forced to make decisions just to be able to pay the debt off quicker.

It is a huge issue, especially for the US, and does need to be addressed by the government ASAP.

The thing is this system actually won't explode like this. The internal debt of the country is nothing but a myth the money is never going to flow back again it would only increase with time. The bubbles burst when either their is an excessive increase in debt or there is a failure in repayment of debt. Both of them aren't happening anytime soon which ensures that system remains intact. Only problem is the international debt which too is sort of based on understanding and countries are pretty happy to defer repayments of such debt based on goal of mutual development.

Yes, print more money to pay off debt will be an option, but in the end it will fail. when you own the printing press and largest military in the world you can always print more money. They'll print them-trillions of dollars and will repay the debt in full. Problem is the resulting inflation will kill the US and EU economy, and China,Russia and Japan will switch to bitcoin as reserve currency to save their economies. And that's exactly why you should be saving your wealth in bitcoin, not FIAT in the long-term. Even stocks can not save you. it might rise a bit initially, but once inflation hits high enough people won't be able to afford to consume anymore. Wages never rise as fast as the price of goods. you get lowering production and hence slashing profits. Bitcoin will be the only safe haven if we hit significant inflation.

They don't print money to pay debts, they print money for inflation to devalue their money making their debts lower in value as well. That's how government manipulates the the prices and the economy. This could be healthy if they balance the goods and importation of products in the country but if they over supply the paper money, the value will be lesser resulting for gas prices to spikes.  If governments sees BTC as reserves, this could be resolve.

Debt is not a problem then country have enough money to pay for it

Really very good theme!Just yesterday talked with a friend on this topic among themselves.The thing is that all countries have public debt without exception.And that's okay!It must be!But the problem is that this debt is constantly growing(as you said).Therefore, those countries whose national debt is growing need to either raise taxes or reduce spending.But apparently no one wants to do it.Therefore, only those countries that are weaker and less developed will suffer.(buy bitcoin)

lol . only if a country is not corrupt and only if a country is rich enough on resouces . they can pay any debts they have  . there are also personal debts which can only be repayed by your own self .  buying bitcoin is not the solution for debts but it will only make your debts more bigger if you loan money to buy btc if ever you dont have a. money .  the solution to debt is to not loan at all if you think you cant spend the money wisely or if there is no emergency occasion to used with

Yes, indeed, they are supposed to do that, but they refused too, they preferred making decisions at their own interest only, for their business and not to really help poor people, so people who are poor remains poor or becoming poorer while rich person are becoming more richer.

So, cryptocurrency is here to balance everything, but it is not that too easy to make it as the global currency as it is controlled by those powerful people.

The debt will continue to grow if a certain country is still corrupted with officials who's serving the country. I don't know why some country don't like to stop those people whose not contributing for the betterment of their country. I agree that loaning money to invest in bitcoin is not a good idea because it will going to get worse with those corrupt officials.

It is impossible for a country to print more money just to pay off their debt this will have a huge impact on the economic status of one country. As printing press sped up, prices will grow faster that would cause hyperinflation or worse their currency might ended up worthless. This is already happened in Zimbabwe and Venezuela. Hence, for me it is much better if they will use cryptocurrency to reduce their debt.

This is why we are trying to get more and more involved in Bitcoin for the simple reason of getting out of debt slavery. Now what do we mean by this? Well every time the central banks and the federal reserve print more Fiat, it takes away our purchasing power and makes people much poorer over the generations, if they are not compounding their wealth or thinking about generating generational wealth. Bitcoin is finite in supply and the bigger the demand for it over time, the rarer it will be as a store of value asset and people will begin to get their power back by purchasing and storing Bitcoin long term.

Or.. more fiat = more debt. Over 23 trillion dollars is an amount most people cannot even imagine. I agree with the OP and I think an imminent crisis is upon us. First the college and the mortgage debt are going to crack down then the stock market will follow.

IMO the next crisis is going to.be the biggest one we had so far and it could have major repercussions on the world power shift. Pay attention to the signs and try to diversify your holdings.

Not impossible at all.... it has been happening for decades globally, and yes, it has an impact on the economy because it decreases the purchasing power of the ordinary people.

Money printing is only a good thing relatively short term speaking, because it gives the economy an artificial boost, but when the effect of the printed money runs out, you'll need to print even more to reach the same effect.

It's like a drug addict that has an amazing high the first time, but needs more of it just to feel good while the first euphoric high will never be replicated again.... all you can do is use more in the hope that you can replicate it.

Well I think OP is trying to say that cryptocurrency will protect our money from devaluation or inflation since cryptocurrecny especially Bitcoin have finite supply, we are rest assured that 1 Bitcoin will always be 1/21million of the supply, though I am more concern about the high volatility of BTC than the continuous deflation of fiat currency.

That applies to the US, they use it to close gaps and play very neatly. But in the long run this will end in mistrust, especially during a recession. Venezuela has not been able to reduce anything from petro because their government is corrupt with high public distrust, and most other countries anticipate an open-close system and limit their import activities. Bitcoin does look like it will have price protection in the future, because it is not involved with various macro interests.

I dont see debt as the main problem in potential economical crisis. IN the recession you mentioned US gov paid off the private sector and possibly it added to their own debt. The whole system is sick. The debt is one of the problems and is connected to economical system, but it alone is not the whole problem.

Do you know that the United states does not even know how to play their game very well because if I was in the position of government, in other to pay my debt easily, I would just act the way whales do operate, what I would do is to buy bitcoin when it was cheap, imagine that they had bought bitcoin when it was $4000, and then buy the worth of 1 billion dollars first, then they create a new that would make bitcoin go round the word and push the price of bitcoin to $20k.

That would be a profit of like x5 already which means that their investment would have turned to $5 billion dollars, so they have extra 4 billion dollars to pay part of the debt, while they keep repeating the same action until they are able to fully pay their debt to zero.

This will not be possible considering the fact that printing more money will cause a drastic effect to the economy of the country. What will happen in particular is there will be an inflation to the prices of goods and services that will be the main problem of the people. You can read here: https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/634/economics/the-problem-with-printing-money/

In terms of having Debt, bitcoin might be the possible solution but there is a 50/50 chance that it can solve the problem. The volatility of the market will not guarantee the profit if we were about to engage in trading activities.

Concerning your idea, earlier I strove to prove that the nominal value of the US national debt is an important for estimating but not crucial. At least, last 10-15 years an army of riotous analysts predicted the crash of dollar and the US financial system but nothing wrong happened. Moreover S&P500 and DJA have been going up since 2008 achieving the new historical highs. It is an unbelievable strong uptrend which has not been disrupted on all crucial levels.

This is because almost all the countries with their central banks (and whole banking system) print out the money out of thin air and roll their debt in the same way US does. This is like a poker game, when everyone is too afraid to say "check", as it would turn out everyone is a literal bankrupt.

I think this is very scary if more and more people are doing debt in bitcoin with a very large amount it will make the debt offenders will find it difficult to pay off their debts because the higher the price of bitcoin will increase due to the influence of demand so it will burden them if they want to pay the debt.

A good webpage that paints the picture:


https://www.usdebtclock.org/


This is only the recorded debt. Noone gives an actual fuck if this is real or not. I've read reports that the actual US debt might be around 100trillion.

America is a strange country. Their president Donald Trump has stated that he does not like bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. But what happens is they owe to buy bitcoin. Isn't that a hypocrisy?

I believe that it is important to buy cryptocurrency (especially Bitcoin) now and store it for the future. Because I can't see a way out for countries getting into an economic crisis situation in the future.

Many people are now seeing bitcoin as a way of out of the debt. But that is not entirely true because sometimes the bitcoin price falls down so instead of making enough money from bitcoin investment to pay off the debt, they'll end up losing money in bitcoin. At the country level that doesn't make sense at all. My advice here, always invest what you can afford to lose.

You just can't go and start printing money. Well, you can, but you don't. You see, there will be an adverse affect if the government starts to print money randomly to pay off debt. The reason why it will affect the economy is not because it has anything to do with the "amount of gold you have in bank" like you mentioned, but the amount of circulation of paper notes and money inside the country. As the amount of money increases inside the country, the value of the currency starts to fall thus causing the prices of goods to increase aka inflation takes place. Look at countries like Zimbabwe and Venezuela.

yes I agree with you printing more money is not a good solution to overcome the problem of state debt. instead it will add to the problem. because when the state prints too much money, the money circulating in the community will be a lot and make them consumptive and eventually make most of the prices go up and there will be hyperinflation. hyperinflation will make the currency fall and not worth. and for this debt problem, the government should have policies that can help pay off debt. and I'm also not sure bitcoin can be used as a solution to pay off debt because its value is very volatile. maybe an effective way to reduce the country's debt is to reduce imports and increase exports.

right. printing money mean new debt.
this thing use long ago, when country want to upgrade their part, when they no have money, they ask to other country to solve the problem (there are many way, but when they corner by some reason like their economy really bad, the path they take is ask to other).
never make debt when you want to buy something, do if you have money, and hardwork if you dont

Talking about the economy is really interesting to discuss with, yes, more debt will come when we wanted to print more money, this cannot really happen although on our part as a human, we are questioning our government, why not just printing more money and give those money to the poor people right, but, that is not possible, as the government are also abiding laws, they can't do whatever we think they should do.

Before taking any opportunity from this cryptocurrency platform we need to improve this platform with various type of regulation for maintaining the stability of the price, the cryptocurrency platform does not only depend on the price but also the credibility, so removing debts, cryptocurrency is not a good solution, also you can't print money for this purpose, the credibility is the main reason. so the generating value of the currency is the only way to make solving this problem for me, but cryptocurrency is not a good solution for me this purpose because it's still struggling for itself.

Cryptocurrency as of the moment cannot pay the debt of each country, up to date, it will be just a good way to make it as a good source of income such as gold that you can do for buying and selling, or holding for a long term, but for the crypto to use to pay debt, it won't help for now. Printing of money is not the solution too, as each country has regulations and restriction before they make and print money.

The US is printing dollars all the time, and gold collateral for a long is not covering the money that is traded around the world. They have the strongest army in the world and can do what they want with money and nobody will do anything with that. Gold for a long is not a collateral for the dollar, now the security for (printing) dollar is the army.

The conclusion is simple - the bubble will burst one day so it's best to buy Bitcoin (and gold).

Cryptocurrency nowadays is a type of investment and the day that it was being used for several transactions of any kind of services has been slowly perished. Don't think that Bitcoin would help to pay the country's debt everything will start to become a different story the government starts buying Bitcoin. But for some other country they already done this because of the unhealthy economy they were in.