Bitcoin Forum

http://www.thebitcointrader.com/2011/11/proposed-financial-protocol-standards_15.html

agreed!

i posted a fair bit... should be filled within hours (Canadian market)

I'll keep coins i mined, another strategy to buy.

No chance that this is treated seriously.

Bitcoin is potentially illegal by design. It has no implementations of comodity holder identification. Soon or far - it will be declared as illegal, terroristic and breaking the "US democracy". I will not surprise if US Gov will blame Satoshi with implication in 9/11 terroristic acts ))

Fool.

Federated OpenTransaction nodes already obsolete proposed infrastructure, is that not true?

However, buy bitcoins anyway. Buy. Just do it. Now. As I said. Not less than over 9000 bitcoins.

:)

fuck off

A typical response from a fool.


And so what if it is 'declared' illegal? Who is going to declare this? By doing so, they are admitting their fear of bitcoin and it will only strengthen the cause. By making it illegal, they are reinforcing the ideals that drove the creation of the technology in the first place.

They tried to 'declare' alcohol illegal in the US at the start of the 20th century and look how that turned out. People who want to use it will continue to do so, legal or illegal. How can they be prevented from doing so? It is a decentralized system with no single point of failure. They cannot put you in jail or bring you to court for running a program on your PC or owning a virtual commodity that does not even exist in the tangible world of property. They might shut down an exchange or two, but new (more anonymous or else legally compliant) ones will arise.

Bitcoin is a deeply subversive technology, and the banks and governments know it. Nobody wants to broach the issue because they know they would appear powerless to do anything about it, while just giving bitcoin more attention. The elites fear bitcoin because it has the potential to take their power away and there is not a jot they can do but throw tantrums.

As for 'breaking the US democracy'... ummm, huh? What the hell are you talking about you moron? Assuming what I think you mean (and it's a BIG assumption, because its nonsense) - declaring a technology that is accepted as revolutionary by many people as illegal would be far more opposed to the ideas of democracy, don't you think? That was obviously a rhetorical, because I know you don't do much of that. Democracy in the USA is an illusion anyway - it is a plutocracy veiled behind a puppet show democracy.

I don't know why I am even bothering to respond to a post that is so far off the stupid scale that it could have been written by an amoebae.

Comparing the outlawing of Bitcoin to the ratification of the 18 Amendment to the Constitution is a bit of a stretch.

A more accurate historical comparison would be the Gold Reserve Act of 1934 which outlawed the personal possession of gold. In fact, it's still illegal in some states to perform financial transactions with gold.

So, historically speaking, Bitcoin is small potatoes compared to what the US government has regulated/outlawed in the past.

Bitcoin is anonymous money which have no smell. This is what US Gov fights against. In 2000 there was a lot of anonymous banks which ditributed anonymous cards (Parex bank in Latvia, lots of cyprus banks, etc). You could send and receive almost any amounts all over the world, cash it and nobody never asked where the money from.

After 9/11 US declared holy war against "terrorism" and started to destroy any banks with pseudo-anonymous customers, processing black and gray money.

Can you get anonymous (without documents) VISA/MC today? Show me the places.

So once bitcoin turnover will grow above some visible limit, it will be declared as illegal, facilitating drugs/weapons/terrorism activities.

And who uses bitcoin now except Silk Road, HYIPs & gamblings? Nobody. While black market has abilities to sold their stuff bypassing government control.

This will have effects in a future.

Don't judge others according to your own experience. I never spend a bitcent on those things.

Please stop trolling.

and

Who is that "payward inc"? Why they try to mess with our bitcoin?

Also, bitcoin is just a funny game about hashing and blockchain, do you see any currency? I don't.

Yes, people are sometimes such narcissists that they dont even read the forum they are posting in before saying their own way of doing stuff is the only one that exist. I, for example, sell one of my services for bitcoins only and one can read about it in this thread of the forum...
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49084.0
...and bid on them on this bitcoin auction site:
https://www.biddingpond.com/item.php?id=1035

Pent:
By trying to claim all bitcoins users are only using them for Silk Road, HYIPs & gambling you don't only insult us whom believe we are doing something a lot more serious but also make a fool out of yourself. Either by being a bitcoin user and thus implying you are using it only for the services you just mock it for or by hanging around fudging in a forum for things you neither believe in nor use.

If the USA and Europe declare bitcoin to be illegal, does it cease to exist?  No, because there is no centralised point of failure.

If I wanted to take down bitcoin and had the resources to do it, I would:

1) Attack (through the courts) the major exchanges.  Make their lives miserable and bury them in lawyers.  Deeply discourage any bank from cooperating with MtGox, etc.  If it's difficult to move between traditional currencies and bitcoin then the general public is much less likely to use it.

2) Smear bitcoin.  Declaring that drug dealers use it isn't enough (many people love drugs).  Setup a legit looking web site for pedophiles that takes payments in bitcoins, then bust it.  Advertise that bitcoin is the currency of pedophiles.  Nothing pushes people's button like this issue.

3) Launch a 51% attack and deny everyone else's transactions.  Expensive to set up, but not beyond the resources of a medium sized government.

4) Play with bitcoin's value.  Raise and dump the price in wild swings.  Make it so unattractive to merchants that no one would want to hold a bitcoin for more than a few hours.  Couple it with step 1.

5) Arrest and prosecute a few people for using bitcoins.  Governments know they can't chase everyone down, but they can make an example of a few to make everyone notice.

But this is just adding more value to Bitcoins. To acquire enough BTC to mess with the price means buying in at some point. that means jumping the price up. You have to pay first to play.

Wrong.

Global governments can make it illegal for payment processors to deal with these companies What if Dwolla were to stop processing USD for MTGOX?

So agreed that Bitcoin ITSELF doesn't have a central authority that can be controlled, but the entities that put liquid capital into the market can be controlled.

The real trolling is the initial post.

To get Bitcoin legitimized, developers should make general protocol redesign and cut off all anonymous features of Bitcoin. After that it will not be Bitcoin anymore.

Irrelevant.

Once bitcoin is accepted as a currency, in and of itself, then the exchange of bitcoin for fiat money will no longer be necessary anyway. People will earn bitcoin for providing goods or services, and spend bitcoin in exchange for the same. No fiat will be needed whatsoever once enough people have confidence in the purchasing power of a bitcoin. And fiat currencies probably won't be around for much longer anyway.

Tor was actually created by the US Navy.

To quote a certain alt-coin designer, "tough titties".

God damn pump & dump threads are so disgusting.  ::)

If bitcoins should become too expensive to buy them I don't wanna have them it's as simple.

Why do you all shoo before the mighty government? They're just politicians, they're pawns in this great game of chess. Intervening where people hate them for it and nobody likes the move is not something they like to do. Thus, Tor, Freenet, and others mostly get attacked by accident, not systematically.

A politician is not the government, and has little incentive to push government control where there's no money to be made either personally (yes, corruption) or by a lobby of his.

Everybody complains the government is behaving so chaotically, at least take that into account when assuming it will be an enemy. Chances are it'll never make up it's mind in Bitcoin in the first place, and we're just facing random laws that happen to get annoying like everyone else.

That said, given that Bitcoin does not intend to change in face of any lawmaker, the proposal might just work out. It would save everyone the hassle of the legality discussion in the future.

Gernment control gives the politician more opportunities to gain profit because there is more they can do for their constituents.  And by constituents I mean those that line their pockets who most of them really represent.

I think the title of this thread is funny because it will probably be a LONG time before I am unable to afford buying 0.00000001 BTC.  If the value skyrockets because it becomes a legally recognized currency, then I just buy the same amount (using $USD) I would have bought before, the decimal place will just change.

I wouldn't since I do not want a system where a few individuals control the major part of the wealth.
If bitcoin were to become just another hierarchical system I'd fight it.

But so far things are looking good, if early adopters cash out their coins will be distributed to more people over time, in that case I'll stick with it.

http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentPage____6861.aspx

"47. Market manipulation is regarded by some commentators as essentially a type of fraud. It involves the creation of a false impression of trading activity or price movement or of market information. The existence of such a false or misleading impression leads to a reduction in market efficiency as trading decisions are not made on financial fundamentals. Commentators have argued that market manipulation undermines public confidence in markets as investors are unable to rely on the integrity of the market. This then has detrimental impacts on the level of competition and liquidity of securities markets."

Agreed - on the whole, I think this sell-off is a good thing for bitcoin.

If you were an early adopter, and were looking to maximize your cash-out value, what would you do?  I'd do something like what's been happening over the past few days, with sell-offs in stages: a big sell-off to 2.50, a stabilization time, a sell-off to 2.20, a stabilization time, and now a sell-off to 2.00 and a stabilizing time.  Perhaps he will go another round to 1.80 or something - no way to know.  But he's selling many coins, and for cheap, redistributing them in the process, and at the price others are willing to pay (ie, fulfilling orders on an exchange).  A sell-off is better to do now than later, when there will be more vendors actually using btc.

After collecting most of the cash from the exchange, many more people are then holding btc, and are more likely to try to spend them other places.  And speaking of which, I just received my first product order using bitcoins in the mail today, some packaged food that was actually cheaper than any of the nearby markets even after including shipping.

^ ENLIGHTENED