Bitcoin Forum

We wont be seeing 1000 agian until fall at least. We are OF THE DEFLECTION, people.
Expect 300-600 the nearest months.

Buffet once said - trading is process of redistributing wealth from least patient to most patient  ;)

I like that statement for many reasons.

To the OP: If you agree with the fundamental improvement of bitcoin over our fiat systems it would be easy to see why its value and price is/will be over $1000/coin/

Why do people still think we can make it past 1000 anytime soon?
The biggest moves happen when good traders are taken by surprise.
If BTC did somehow race above the all-time high, then a fast push to $3,500 is possible (estimate based on previous "insanity")
If BTC goes below $300 (for example), it will hopefully bounce fast back to $600+, but could go much lower.

No one knows for certain, but...
It is *possible* we will see $3,500 within 12 to 18 months.   ;D

History.

Anytime soon = 30 days or 14 months? (for example)
Once BTC gets moving, it tends to keep moving up, up, up, and that is just a start.  ;D

I tend to believe that Bitcoin will never visit USD 1000 again.

Because Bitcoin   ;D But no seriously, everyone is expecting it to. As soon as we start moving in a definate up direction a lot of people take their coins of the exchanges, stop trading and hodl as most know how easy it is to get burned on a BTC bull run. Then with much less coins for sale the price invariably goes upwards panic buying ensues and que 2014 bubble.

I tend to believe that there is one post per minute on this forum saying:


... starting July 2011.

Because people are under the impression that bitcoin is guaranteed a growth rate of 1000% per year every year, based on a 4 year old chart history.

He also said Bitcoin is a "mirage" and a "joke" and that we should all "Stay away" from it  :D

Place your bet? (http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/)

People who think that bitcoin can replace fiat are the ones who learn about finance from youtube videos.
To replace fiat, bitcoin supply should be fixed according to some practical everyday resource like oil, coal, corn etc. Only then it would have price stability. The pseudo-resource of fixed rate coin mining is a foolish way to control money. If bitcoin would become world currency, then unfair wealth distribution would increase tenfolds.

Unlike Government printing presses?  ;D

Blockchain.info not helping.

Well it can make past 1k, problem is when.

Seems to be driving LTC up

Indeed, think we are about 3 months away from sustainably clearing $1k

You have a point. And I like your name. He was a good philosopher.

Thank you. The irony with my name, is that I consider myself as an optimist. Visiting this forum makes me feel like an pessimist though, because I constantly want to balance this overly optimistic enthusiasm that is shown by most here about BTC.
They think that them forcing this optimism towards BTC is helping to spread BTC, when I think that it is actually slowing down this entire process of financial evolution that started with BTC.

He was saying shit that day  ;D

I believe btc gonna grow up in price in future, even more than 1k$, we only need some good information also people should to recognise more btc.

Wall street.

1.  Because the sentiment was EXACTLY the same after every past bitcoin bubble.  Case in point:

May-Oct 2013:  "Why people still think we can make it past 266 any time soon?"
Jul '11-Jan '13:  "Why people still think we can make it past 30 any time soon?"

2.  Because 'exponential growth of user base'.  Deal with it.

3.  Because the rise of newbie troll accounts that get created every time post-bubble, coming in and trolling with negative press links, spreading FUD, and trying to get people to sell.  Incidentally(if you are not into stocks) this type of activity happens on EVERY stock message forum as well, especially with pennie stocks.  It is all a psychology game.  The newbie bear trolls are the SHARK TRADERS, wanting cheaper coins.  Don't you guys get that?  Or are you just that gullible??  When you see this type of troll/bear activity heat up, you need to BUY not SELL.  Because the sharks know that the bear market won't last forever.

I think that ETF will be the final hope for bitcoin cultists. The final hope that there still is a reason for the price to rise. This hope will probably diminish painfully slowly. Bitcoin will probably not succeed in Wall Street and the reason is simple: most of the bitcoin owners are not known, and with all probability are criminals like drug dealers or computer crackers from the Tor Web days. Regulators will never let this go through, because when some "early adopter from silkroad" dumps 1mil BTC, and the price drops to 1 cent in minutes, then what will people do? Of course blame the regulators and the government for enabling criminals to infiltrate an honest exchange.

A few "newbie troll accounts" are real people who are scared and/or lost a lot buying high or they had money at Gox.
Many are fake, some are obviously fake.

I think this post is incorrect on many levels and in many ways. It's full of all kinds of wrong

I think that you probably felt physical pain when you imagined this scenario.
It's alright *in an comforting voice*. Bitcoin will succeed with ETF, and the entire world will start to invest in bitcoin. You'll be rich beyond dreams, and all while having no education or even having to do any work. Everyone will buy bitcoins because they are just so stupid, that they like to make your coins more expensive for the sheer fun of it. People just will be this dumb, that they can't figure out that they can actually start using alternatives, that doesn't include filling your pockets. It's alright, boy.. it's alright.. there's no pain anymore..

I was going to provide a well-meant rebuttal, but the bolded part of your post has disqualified your post from serious consideration.

Can Zapffe tell us why he is even posting here?
So we can be reminded we are bitcoin cultists?
Why Zapffe, what motivates you to login and post?

Yes! Especially because you can easily account the ownership all the existing Bitcoins (12,530,375 and counting). That is the reason why you can be absolutely sure, that 1mil.+ bitcoins aren't owned by a single successful drug dealer from Silk Roads. Especially because you know how most of the drugs were sold by many different individuals, without a single entity using different users accounts. And also, knowing that Dread Pirate Roberts made at least 174,000 BTC with commission, then it couldn't be that someone made even more with sales. And anyway, it isn't possible that the 174k coins were only those that were found by FBI, because it's especially hard to hide your private keys.
How the hell could someone take this into serious consideration. Maybe if someone is not an bitcoin cultist and has the ability to think? Could be.. could be... who knows... who knows..

Because the religious jackasses are slowing down the evolution of both technology and finance.

I was going to provide a well-formed reply, but the bolded part of your post has disqualified your quote from any consideration.   :D

I probably missed something, that was both intelligent and original at the same time.

If we follow the current pattern, expect the next jump up to be in September, to about 3-5K.

Can you prove that?

blockchain adresses.. otherwise fud.

If anyone has one million BTC, why would they dump anyway?  That makes no sense at all, they make pennies in that case

Instead of hundreds of millions.

????  What is up with Blockchain.info?  I don't understand?

Boy, you come in here with a gun loaded with weak sauce. 

You can do better.  ETFs, Wall Street, 1 million bitcoins. Lol. Funny stuff.

And you didn't understand that the whole point was, that you can't prove who are the owners of the coins in existence. The owners could be vampires, they could be aliens or they could even be squirrels with high levels of intelligence, caused by mutation from nuclear waste.
The point here is, that most of the bitcoin owners are not known. And when considering bitcoins history, then there is a strong probability, that the biggest holders could actually be criminals, who earned BTC by their criminal activity.
Taking this probability into account, is a justified risk assessment that will be made by anyone who is any good with investments.

Not all people see that bitcoin as the god's cure for finance and how it will last for tens or hundreds of years. Some people see bitcoin as an temporal phenomenon, and could just be waiting for the right time, when they see that there is no more potential for growth, and then they strike to take it all.

When you're emotionally attached to bitcoin, then you don't see these risks. But when you care about wealth in general, and have basic knowledge about dealing with wealth, then you will surely care about these risks.

Are all gold owners known, documentation?

Yes, all extremely funny. I bet that you are banging your fist on the table out of pure laughter on how funny it all was. Now you can rest in peace with certainty, that all the people from Wall Street are indeed people with intellectual disability, and they will buy bitcoins just to make your coins more expensive.

Ha. You're so lost you don't even have a clue what I believe. But keep shooting in the dark, it's entertaining.

Check new registrations count, its above 35k till now. Last months total registration were 25k. So i guess fresh air is coming and it will take us to the moon soon.

You are comparing the best known precious metal, that has a history of thousands of years of ownership and that's biggest stockpiles are registered, to an cryptocurrency with a history of 5 years with most of it involving drug trade and without virtually any registered ownership.

When you seriously believe that it's a suitable comparison, then try to read the same thing over couple of more times. If that doesn't help, then give yourself a good pat on the shoulder and rest with certainty that gold is just as fragile as bitcoin.

I think, Because the worst news is behind us now.
We didnt really see a super big drop with all that bad gox news.
And now its just a steady race back up again.
Soon people get vacation money and it is time to invest again.
Im sure more and more people are seeing bitcoin newsarticles, and are getting interested to.
So thatshy I think we are gonna see 1000 soon again.

I think that mister Hercule Poirot could solve the dark mystery on what you believe in. Some could say that you believe in bitcoin, but it doesn't show at all!

You don't answer my question, are large particular gold holders documentated in a database?

Yes they are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve)

Are you ready to give yourself a good pat on the shoulder, that there probably are also a lot of secret gold storages that was digged by The Annunaki while enslaving the human race, and therefor... gold is just as fragile as bitcoin! What makes gold especially as fragile as bitcoin, is that it also has lot's of intrinsic value in electronics and jewelry.

I bet all the big shots in Wall Street see the things just as you.
So, nothing to see here, nothing to worry about. Bitcoin is as strong as gold or god, or an golden god!

particular gold holders

Not an ETF.

The small gold holder doesn't matter as long as an overview can be made over the biggest holders of the market. For instance, if already 9mil. of bitcoins would be accounted for, then you could let the other 3,5mil slide, and just hope for them to be hoarded up in some legit storage. It would still be a risk, but with a much lower factor. The current evidence, or you could rather say the lack of evidence, about ownership, is the thing that makes buying bitcoin risky to an man with financial experience. Investing smart, means learning as much as you can about the field and knowing all the important factors that could influence the market price. Bitcoin was an high-risk/high-gain investment, but now it has become too bloated for that. All thee the previous risks remain, making it now an high-risk/low-gain investment.

That's what I'm trying to tell here, that there is no point in getting your hopes up with ETF. Please don't start telling me things that particular gold holder anonymity, is comparable the anonymity that is the biggest part of the bitcoin market. It's senseless to ignore the long history, that gold has with human civilization, and the trust that this history brings into the equation.
When dealing with wealth, then it's all about trust. Wealth flows into people or places that can be trusted..

Please tell me more about the large gold price manipulation by gold cartels.

First there was:


Then the next post was:


Why has no one else pointed this out yet?

Of course they are manipulating the gold market, like most other markets are manipulated by large holders who are artificially restricting supply or simulating demand. What makes a difference with bitcoin, is that these sides are known and their interests are known and trusted. They know that they have to keep their methods refined, so it won't create too big of an outcry. People in finance know this and they trust these manipulators to be stable and subtle enough because they have a known history. With bitcoin, you don't know the players who could turn the game, and that is not knowing one of the most important things that you should know when investing.

I'm going to sleep for today. I hope that you really needed this explanation and you weren't just trolling me with pretending not to understand the difference.

I used to think any prediction of $1,000+ was crazy.
When we had the China Bubble from ~265 to ~1,200 I (re-)learned how amazing these Rallies can be.
The next one will take time, but it will happen.

LOL..

10 000 U$ before 2015.. Because Bitcoin is so awesome.. Peoples just dont realize yet !

You are saying $10,000 later this year (before 2015)
Isn't that a bit optimistic?

I'd say you seem to be more emotionally attached to Bitcoin than anyone else posting in this thread...alas a negative attachment.

As for your drug dealer bogeyman dumping 1mil btc on the market - it has been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the only entity controlling that much btc is satoshi (and his btc have never moved). DPR probably still has lots of coins even after the seizure but he probably won't be dumping any time soon :) Of course it is in the realm of possibility that one entity has indeed amassed 1mil btc somehow and they can, of course, dump them on stamp or wherever to crash the price. They'd have to be extremely stupid or nefarious to do that and all of these factors combined make for a pretty small possibility imo. Bitcoin has far greater threats to withstand than theoretical drug lord billionaires dumping btc until it goes to zero.

Oh well, I dislike "cultists" myself for they make onlookers focus on something else besides the core technology which is what it important here. But your way of presentation doesn't help any sort of rational case either  ::)

EDIT: oh and to stay on topic - given past history and Bitcoins current phase of development, as well as its market cap...it's not unreasonable at all to expect 1000$/btc, even this year. It makes for only a 10billion+ USD market cap, which is STILL a very small pool of liquidity (given that most of the coins are not for sale at any given time) for the purposes btc could be used.

People who think that bitcoin should be fixed to some practical everyday resource are the ones who learn about bitcoin, economics, and finance from people who know little about any of the three.

People who can't understand the value of currencies price stability and security, are the ones who learn finance from youtube videos, and who think that schools are evil, because they aren't fun and easy like the youtube videos they prefer. The best "educational" videos are made by guys whose username is something like Bitcoin$$Playa and who can confirm that bitcoin is especially secure because of it's speculative value without an anchor. So, everyone should buy now to become Ze New w0rld l33tz.

Lol. What was your username pre-3/14/14?  I have a few guesses.

You are like bear troll 101. Straight out of the fud-to-bring-price-low while pump-to-get-price-high handbook.

Right now you love LTC. No coincidence that you arrived right before the LTC houbi buy the rumor sell the news pump and dump.

You'll be gone from here in another week or so. And will be forgotten. He'll, they probably already miss you over at the btc-e troll box.  

Meanwhile, for the rest of us, life goes on as normal.

My previous username got banned for disagreements with an certain individual. If you have been an active reader of this forum, then you can probably guess the answer with ease.
With investments, I mostly support the side that has more strength. When bulls have more strength, then I'm bullish, when bears, then bearish. I would so try to say things, that would make bitcoin look good, if I had any reality based support to do this. I'm not the kind of guy who goes bullish with the support of denial and empty hopes. Give me new bitcoin exchanges with decent volume in new geographical locations, and I'm as bullish as can be. But for the previous months, there haven't been a single strong reason, that would give me assurance of bitcoins strenght. And I'm not happy about it, because I would earn a lot more if bitcoin would be rising.
I just don't see that denial and building false hopes are a very effective methods to guide your investments. Sorry.

Wow. You have to be a real fucktard to get banned on btctalk. Congrats on that one.

At least you admit you champion the current market conditions. Whatever you think lines your pockets the most I suppose. Maybe just maybe there are enough idiots out here for you to influence to scrape a few dollars more of the top of the ask and bid price to make it worth your while.

I've been following news on Latin America and Middle East ... I think bitcoin will expand on these areas, while been lite stagned on EU/US ...

PS-> Sounds like in Latin America elections is preaty much reassembling "cold war" times where you should choose to be either libertarian or Statism; btw its' reminds me ...

A story that might not be a story, and a recent reminder from Satoshi.
https://bitcoinfoundation.org/forum/index.php?/topic/745-a-story-that-might-not-be-a-story-and-a-recent-reminder-from-satoshi/page__hl__venezuela

I have no beef with btctalk and I think that their ban was justified. It was just an unfortunate outcome of me not responding well to threats.
I'm hardly championing the current market conditions. My tactic is simple, but has proven itself effective - sit in fiat and only jump in, if there is a strong reason to jump in and be ready to jump out when the time is right. This is the nature of this current market - rises are fast but weak and temporal. There needs to be some market development to raise new trust before this bear market is over. You can't just draw a line and expect that everything will be good because last years pattern showed that it was good. Last years patterns are caused by real reasons, not the other way around.
Bitcoin biggest holders (in all probability the exchanges), should unite to create an more trustworthy market system, with constant internal audits and transparency to the public. Only then would smart investors feel safer investing back into crypto. You can't just draw a line and expect that the investors will believe it without reason, only sheep follow these meaningless lines.

I think that if someone could effectively market bitcoin in south- and central-America, then we could really get 1BTC 10,000$+. I think that this region would be the biggest and most suitable market yet. What troubles me, is that I see no progress of this development. I think that with proper contacts and funding you could make bitcoin very popular there. I was certain during December that bitcoin will enter south-America in spring, but will of development I have began to loose faith for future potential. Without conquering new ground, bitcoin will just slowly die without any new booms.

I haven't thought about Middle East because I think that using Bitcoin will create confusion on it's suitability with Sharia.
But give me Mexico, Brazil, Venezuela, Argentina and Colombia and I'll start posting train pics.

@ Z

A few things...

 - Your opinion about the "anonymous criminals" dumping Bitcoin and hurting a respected exchange is foolish. Banks love criminals, always have... Somebody would make millions in mere moments on the arbitrage opportunity. Pennies on the dollar...

 - Gold was used as untraceable money since the earliest periods of human history, modern day paper money is also untraceable, this nanny state mentality about knowing the financials of everybody else is toxic. Only in the last few decades has humanity had the tools to efficiently track money. The ability to deprive somebody the use of their money is the assertion of power over another; it's a claim of ownership, basically slavery. I don't care if the money belonged to a drug dealer, it's none of my business to ask and it defeats the purpose of money. If I traded a service and couldn't collect payment just because the money was "tainted" I would choose a different currency and never look back. Money is broken when it's not fungible.

 - Manipulation in any market is negative, gold or Bitcoin. Sadly, many crimes are committed by "trusted" people. Using fake money to manipulate a market is cheating. Cheating is never right, not even when you are the one printing the fake money. For every winner there is a loser, when you create losers by manipulating a market you are not "trustworthy" in my opinion and the reason isn't "good enough". At least with Bitcoin the people who manipulate the price have a limited amount of Bitcoins; at least we all play by the same uniform set of rules...

 - I just spent $230 last week on groceries that would cost $90 back in 2005. Look at the world for what you see, not what they tell you... Stability is a joke, they are laughing behind your back because you believe in "stability". I agree that stability is important in a currency, if only I could find one...  At least Bitcoin *Might* have a future; I don't believe our legacy financial system will outlast it. Honestly I don't...

 - Bitcoin is trending downward, it will trend upwards, then downwards, so on and so forth. Bitcoin has lost no security, the perception of insecurity is weak. You might feel insecure walking across a bridge, or being high up in a building. Your emotions don't affect the integrity of the structure one little bit... Bitcoin is just as secure now as ever, if you don't own your private keys you don't own Bitcoin. Lessons in security...

 - Bitcoin might not be the most popular crypto in the future, but if it's ever replaced you can be sure it will be replaced by something better and not by something we're simply told to use... Bitcoin opened the door, now we can pass through it and see what happens in time.

 - Never go full fiat...

We are dropping folks. 500 and soon below it. 2014 year of the bitcoin destruction

no, because noone has the exclusive right to print money, unlike now.

The unfair wealth distribution will even off, instead of getting worse. At first the early adopters (including us) will be pretty rich, but once we spent our money, it's spent, and we have to earn new money again. Main while whoever offered us goods or services will get a fair payment.

There will be no free rides, or at least a lot less than with fiat.