Bitcoin Forum

Original Post: https://bitflate.org/post/2019/11/24/bitcoin-will-not-be-a-medium-of-exchange.html

Bitcoin is "good" money. It’s too good that "bad" money will crowd it out of circulation.

Bitcoin is digital gold. It’s the number one Store of Value in cryptocurrency. But it doesn’t do much for us besides Store of Value. Some Bitcoin supporters argue HODL is a use case. More use cases will come. There is a narrative: Store of Value first, then Medium of Exchange. In this narrative, it’ll take time for Bitcoin to gain widespread adoption. Once it reaches critical mass, possibly hundreds of trillions of dollars, people will then use it as a currency. This narrative is convenient and used to justify Bitcoin ever rising price.

Nobody knows exactly when Bitcoin will reach critical mass. I agree with Store of Value use case. But I don’t agree that Bitcoin will have other use cases. Bitcoin is currently worth more than 100 billion dollars. We see few indications that it is being used as a currency outside of crypto world. Bitcoin is a valuable commodity. It will not be used as a medium of exchange.

Gresham’s law: bad money drives out good money

This principle states that more valuable commodity (good money) will gradually disappear from circulation. It will be replaced by less valuable commodity (bad money). For example, if people are currently using silver coins as money, the government decides to switch to copper coins. Government decrees that both coins have same value. In this situation, people will hold on to silver coins and use copper coins. They will spend the bad money (copper coin) and keep the good money (silver coin).

Bitcoin supporters tout it as the good money, the "goodest" money. Hyperbitcoinization will eliminate all bad money. It is misleading to label money as good and bad. Any form of currency has some use if it is in circulation. Fiat money makes the good/bad distinction fuzzy. These bad currencies are in circulation because they are just easier to circulate. The good, sound, and hard money is simply harder to circulate.

We should classify money as the desirable (good) money and the less desirable (bad) money. There is a spectrum between desirable and not desirable. In this spectrum, Bitcoin is highly desirable, gold is desirable, USD is desirable, Euro is next, Venezuela bolivar is not desirable. Gresham’s law continues to apply to the spectrum. The less desirable money will drive out the highly desirable money.

Bitcoin world domination does not reduce price volatility

Bitcoin needs to reach critical mass for world domination. This is a future outcome that Bitcoin supporters often pitch. In this future, Bitcoin price will become less volatile. It will be suitable as a medium of exchange. This argument derives from micro view of Bitcoin economics. If Bitcoin market cap is hundreds of trillions of dollars, a few hundred billions exchange will not affect price. The flaw of the argument is it assumes Bitcoin is micro and local. Bitcoin is permissionless and global. It is accessible by everyone.

Bitcoin supply is fixed. But its demand is unpredictable. Humans are fallible. We may go into wars and induce recession. We may achieve productivity breakthrough and grow fast. The future is unpredictable. Another factor is high fee. When Bitcoin no longer gives out block reward, miners will need to raise fee. When a transaction has high fee, bitcoin owner will need to have substantial gain to justify high fee. Otherwise, he/she will do better by HODLing. Bitcoin price will continue to be volatile.

Bitcoin will not be a medium of exchange because of price volatility.

"Bad" money always exists to prevent "good" Bitcoin circulation

Bitcoin is decentralized money. It exists because many of us believe it has value. It is unlikely that everyone on planet Earth will unify into one single belief. There will always be other kinds of money. These money won’t be as desirable as Bitcoin. Therefore, people will put them in circulation and keep their bitcoins.

Bitcoin will be a Store of Value. We will use other "bad" money as currency.

Bitflate is a cryptocurrency with constant inflation of 7% per year.

To me, that is the biggest flaw with the idea of ever using btc as an everyday currency. And I see no real solution ever presenting itself.

As a store of value, digital gold, sure, btc could work. But as a replacement for fiat, not really, outside of 3rd world nations with hyperinflation. And even there, BTC probably isn't the ideal crypto to use in place of fiat.

For a crypto to catch on as a medium of exchange, first off it needs to be stable. Then it needs to charge less fees than credit cards do, and be just as fast. And consumers will need to be able to use this crypto seamlessly, as easy as other forms of payment, and ideally it'd have to be cheaper to use from a consumer standpoint than a credit card which typically offers 1-5% back. So.... umm... currently no cryptos really qualify, and btc certainly doesn't.

I'm working on Bitflate, a crypto with constant inflation. I think inflation will make price stable and Bitflate token more suitable for transaction. We intentionally make a crypto less "good" so it'll circulate. Inflation discourages HODL behavior so people will put Bitflate token to use. It's an experiment. I'm not sure it'll be able to match fiat efficiency. But it has a chance to address the transaction use case.

BTC dominance is far too high and I hardly doubt that an altcoin will replace BTC one day. I prefer to use altcoins, but the majority of investors still believes in Bitcoin and sells all their altcoins to get some extra BTC.

Not even a single percent we have opportunity to pull down the Bitcoin.
FB investors and traders mostly looking to invest on Bitcoin and then ethereum after all this only you will find investment on the various altcoins.
Mobile me your going to convert kryptos to fiat cash that time only we will feel Bitcoin is far far enough.

Bitcoin would be a very bad replacement for fiat in its current state with long confirmation times especially.  You just can't have that situation when you're in line somewhere trying to pay for something, nor would people want to pay network fees, especially high ones when the network is congested.

There are other coins that would serve this purpose so much better.  Just take a look at how venezuelans are using dash as a currency, and apparently it's working for them down there.  I just watched a youtube video about it, and it was amazing.

Bitcoin works as 'digital gold' I guess, tho I wouldn't describe it as that myself. 

The problem with testing that sort of experiment is the coin would need to catch on with the public to even know if it worked or not. And no offense, but it's not like the general public will equate bitflate with btc.

For a coin to be stable, there is a simple (and not so great) solution -- centralization. It'd have to be a stablecoin, backed either by a company or assets.

This argument could be valid in future if Bitcoin failed to gain market share and people just decided to use it for store of value, another thing to look at is the lighting network, the success of lighting network is going to determine if BTC is going to be use for medium of exchange because the  transaction fees that people complained about that is high is going to be reduced significantly

eventually this LN will be used in more wallets that we may not even need to create channel anymore but simply send to any address since by default all are using LN. BTC is meant to be spent, to buy products on stores that is why we do have QR codes for it. right now we can send fees already, its not just going to be SOV, it all depend to how you will use it.

You should examine my last point: "Bad" money always exists to prevent "good" Bitcoin circulation.

If Bitcoin is a Store of Value, it's desirable, people won't put it in circulation.

I strongly believe that we did not understand were we are heading to in technology and it is those that are able to see into the future that might tell us if bitcoin is going to be a store of value or medium of exchange for Goods and services. I think what is in the mind of bitcoin's developers is taking out third-party from transactions and that bitcoin is doing extremely well, the remaining features are in the womb of time.

Even in the world domination scenario, Bitcoin won't be a medium of exchange. The key is here:

The Bitcoin supply is fixed. But its demand is unpredictable.

Bitcoin will always be desirable because of its fixed supply. Other "bad" money will take it out of circulation.

Lightning network just solves one problem though (or two, if we count fees + speed of transaction). It doesn't help much with volatility however. Who wants to buy a TV for 1K today, when a month from now that same amount of BTC could be worth 2-5K? Nobody will use BTC as a medium of exchange... they would hold it for speculation.

An exception could be in 3rd world countries where their own fiat fluctuates more than BTC does. I suppose it could catch on as a medium of exchange there with the LN. But other cryptos are probably better suited to that task than BTC is, at least currently.

People won't until they will face an urgent situation when their bad money if not enough to cover all and they will start to put bitcoin that what you have called good cash in circulation. In the urgent situation, people will not care what kind of the stuff as long as it can be converted as money and they will sell it.

Your last points seem not to be a valid point caused by people are seeing something worth based on what condition they have faced it.
When you have considered bitcoin as a store of value, and it's meant if you see bitcoin as a commodity and not a currency. All of your points are conditional.

Dominance is not an asset that protects the price volatility. They are the governments that maintain the volatility of today's paper money. Actually, the lack of access to the BTC may cause trouble, but with some regulations it will be possible to counter it. I recently read about the arrest of several people who wanted to move the price of the AUD. And they were the governments that opposed it. So there is nothing special about the other moneys, they seem more appropriate because there are governments protecting them.

Another reason for the acceptance of BTC is that it is limited. Unlimited paper money causes inflation and uncertain movements of governments. Therefore, a limited and traceable system causes to more positive results. Imagine you can see how much money governments have, how much money they send to whom. Would not that be better for all of us?

Besides, we do not have to use BTC as a 1BTC. It may be limited to 21 million, but lets calculate it as 0.0000000001.

Bitcoin is one pioneer of cryptocurrency that can know and know many people. The games in the online offer make it more fun and we have. Bitcoin prices dropped it was reasonable. Because every year must have slots and there will be down posted there.

In my opinion, it takes a long time for Bitcoin to become a medium of exchange because of many factors that are obstacles. Until now, not everyone understands what bitcoin is and how it functions or they know about cryptocurrency. Maybe Bitcoin will become more practical if used as a digital asset, as an alternative investment or safe haven other than gold

Yeah, it can't be for now because of its volatility but I think it will never cause we still prioritize the fiat money as number one. Bitcoin has a separate use-case and different space so it is only exchangeable in an online market. Past HODLers already changed, they realize that it is not only its use case, but it should also be circulating and spendable.

While I like the concept of LN and its current technological implementation is decent, the majority of merchants accepting Bitcoin payments still do not accept LN payments from my experience (though there are a number that I use), and most transactions still take place on the mainnet for both purchases and regular transactions between wallets. Also seems like adoption of LN's mostly stagnated or is starting shrink by a bit too, from this chart that I've taken from txstats.com (click for link (https://txstats.com/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=1514710526683&to=1574731850269)) that looks at both the sum of the value of all open channels and the sum of their values. The good news is that we're still way above where these values were a year ago, but it seems like things have slowed down somewhat.

It almost every december or end of the year bitcoin price will be bleeding because of many people cash out their bitcoin to spend for holiday or something like that. It's usual thing happened in crypto. And the price will recover at Q1 of next year. So, for new investors investing on december is always the best decission to make

right now its can be used to buy stuff online. its a medium of exchange. right now one way to buy altcoins like ETH is to have BTC first. cryptocurrencies are medium of exchange it functions like fiat. its even in the forex market now just like a real fiat. you may not spend it but some people do. we keep trading it like currencies buying USDT with BTC. there is no good and bad money here what we have are bloodmoney.  ;D

I understand you prefer altcoin but what coins you are using and what coin you trust more than bitcoin who is the legit coin in the market and the reason i am asking is because there are only a few coins in the market that can be trusted and the rest of the markets are filled with copy coins rather than any innovation.

I think the major challenge presently retarding people using BTC in everyday real life is firstly laws forbidding it, and secondly volatility. The volatility aspect is the reason why many organizations or businesses might decide not to choose BTC if crypto ever gets adopted mainstream, instead they might consider using stable coins. Bitcoin has always remained store of value and will make much sense if it's use in everyday life increases in future.

To me Bitcoin being a store of value is enough. As we know that that the oldest store of value is gold and it is very hard to digitalized it, so a digital asset like Bitcoin will be a worthy store of value in the 21st century.

Volatility is because adoption is happening. Current Yearly supply is 3.5%. What is sort of high but price of Bitcoin still increases. Why? Because of adoption. More and more people uses Bitcoin.

Bitcoin will not be medium of exchange because it is not fungible.

Bitcoin is blood money. I'm sure people losing sleep over it. People go to prison because of it. I personally like sweat money. I think Bitcoin is sweat money too. Why bleed for money? I want to enjoy life. Forcing narrative too hard makes me look like a scam. I don't preach Bitcoin as everything money.

That's enough for me too. It'll make a good return for Bitcoin holders. I think the Bitcoin community is trying too hard to sell the medium of exchange idea. It makes them look like a scam. The crypto story is incomplete. In order to cover the holes, people stretch their claims.

Bitcoin is like gold in crypto sphere. It won't be like dollar, and that's quite obvious. There are already some stable coins which play this role - Tether USD for example.

To become a medium of exchange like fiat money, government approval is needed and a central bank is needed and I don't think this will ever happen. As long as peer to peer transactions can still be done, Bitcoin might become a medium of exchange but it is very limited in its use and I think it will be better if Bitcoin is made a digital asset so everyone can access it

You may be right about this and Bitcoin is becoming viewed more as a store of value and has received the classification of being "digital gold" and you may find stablecoins will be more suitable for payments and the lightening network will be set up for faster and more efficient transactions on the larger chain

Yep, the OP is talking shit. I just bought some games on steam with a gift card I bought with crypto. I just ordered some seeds for my garden using eth. I bought some spray paint for my crafting with bitcoin. Whats this OP on about? Does the OP even come to reply back? Nope....



Another person talking shit. I spend bitcoin all the time. Stop lying and spreading misinformation. Which third world countries are you talking about that have money that fluctuates like that?
You say you won't spend bitcoin because it will be worth more in the future? Then convert all your fiat into bitcoin because using fiat to buy something is the same as buying bitcoin with the fiat beforehand the only exception is that you are using a superior payment method instead of crappy fiat.

The fact that BTC can be used as a currency doesn't mean it'll ever be used as a widespread medium of exchange. That is what I took the OP's message as, that it won't catch on and be widespread. Of course BTC could buy 'something'. LTC can buy stuff too, and I expect Doge as well. I recall Beancash could be used to buy stuff if willing to jump through some payment hoops -- but I wouldn't exactly say it's going to be an everyday currency used by most people.

If you feel otherwise, that's fine. I simply don't think the volatility issue will really ever be fixed. BTC as 'digital gold' is still good enough, that's at least a real world use.

As for countries with currency issues, Venuzuela comes to mind.

This is a clear explanation. I don't use Bitcoin for everyday transactions. I think the current transaction data is not showing signs of Bitcoin becoming a widespread medium of exchange. Conflating the medium of exchange story with store of value is either hype or spreading misinformation.

It is not going to happen. I can't see any altcoin outpricing Bitcoin in terms of value right now unless it has to be a new and more secure cryptographic currency that has none of the disadvantages bitcoin currently faces

I can buy almost anything I want in my country with bitcoin aside from pay bills and buy food. I use bitcoin more then I use cash or the bank. It is already widespread. You can pay for many things online from many differnt countries. Everything digital I have paid with crypto. That means it is wide spread. The fact it is in africa being used means it is widespread. I have bought so many things with crypto from seeds and garndeing supplies to entire pc setups tables laptops. Shoes, stuff for the kitchen, curtains, eating utensils and everything in between. So there you go there are thousands of real world uses. So stop talking shit. Look at this web site bidorbuy.co.za eeverything there can be paid with bitcoin. Thats an entire market place like Amazon and you tell me it is not widespread.  :P ::)

Every single argument against Bitcoin in this Bitflate advertisement is flawed and i wouldn't invest a penny in this money printing constantly rising inflation scheme.

Bitflate is in an early stage of development. I think it has a chance. It departs from the SoV narrative. But I have not been able to convince many people about Bitflate. I do not recommend treating Bitflate as an investment. It'd be very risky. Early adopters get more coin rewards. Do your own research.

There's a chance that Bitcoin will become a medium of exchange. But there's no indication. My argument could be flawed. You can keep pitching Bitcoin as MoE. That's either delusional or scamming others.

bitcoin is not like gold, bitcoin and gold have very different physical and supply, i think bitcoin can be used for faster and safer transactions while gold can only be used for exchanges in the same location, cannot conduct transactions between countries with fast processing.

I literally just ordered pizza with bitcoin, i buy food almost every day with it. I have bought my laptop, desktop, 2 monitors and tv with bitcoin and i have lived in hotels with bitcoin so i can't see where the problem is. Maybe you just want there to be a problem to make Bitflate to seem more useful which i can guarantee that it's not.

How about eth and xrp? Somehow thesee two are primary contender for the btc. Well the marketcap seems to be not marching towards btc but when it comes to different aspect I think technically these two are way better than btc. I'm not saying they can overwhelm btc price that much but the tech itself are proven useful. Especially eth network.

This is seriously really strange thread, xrp better then btc? In what way? They can close xrp if they want, it has nothing on bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need permissions and it can't be shut down.

Gresham’s law does not apply to cryptocurrencies. We don't have face value here, market value is the only value we'll ever have. This law describes fiat currencies only, and even then it's less relevant now when currencies are made out of paper and don't hold much value on their own.

So, your whole argument is wrong, and there's no reason to think that shitcoins will be more adopted than BTC. No one is going to hold dozens of cryptocurrencies and then spend the worst coins first while saving good coins - people will stick to one good coin, Bitcoin, and will use it for both saving and spending.

It's clear that Bitcoin is better than XRP if we know the fact that XRP's founder holds more supply. Bitcoin has been trusted and recognized by many as digital assets and this is clearly different from what happened in XRP

I think we have a different definition of 'widespread'. I am not referring to the number or types of items you can buy with BTC. There are plenty. And if we compare BTC to most alts, BTC will be the crypto in widest use as a medium of exchange (at least currently).

But when I state widespread use, I mean it in regard to a large percentage of the general population using BTC as as a medium of exchange.  And that certainly isn't happening. BTC would need to be used in a similar fashion as paypal, for instance, to say it's a common medium of exchange.

I don't see that ever happening due to the volatility issue. Again, if you feel otherwise, that's fine. I'm not here to argue the point or try to put BTC down (as besides owning BTC, I consider store of value a real-world use and good enough).

Yes, I agree with you that making bitcoin as a real currency and a medium of exchange is indeed quite difficult. first because bitcoin is very volatile. secondly also because bitcoin transfer fees are quite expensive and making payments with bitcoin is quite complicated. easier to use cash or debit cards. and now there are many stores that don't accept bitcoin as a means of payment.
so in my opinion bitcoin is suitable for investment and trading tools but not for exchange.

To increase my asset quantity and knowledge about trading/ investment bitcoin still become the main option, for another purposes I'll say " NO ". As long many counties still not accept bitcoin this instrument can't change world economy. Bitcoin is not gold/ stock/ mortgage, it has different behavior and network. Just follow the news, up date the information and use it at the right place and moment. 

I really don't understand why wouldn't it be happening, i heard same things about the internet in 90s, that the majority will not use it. It's too hard to use and people are losing money and almost every fud you can link it to like terrorism.

I see the volatility as a passing trend because bitcoin is still looking for its value, i see the problem being that the real value of bitcoin is too high for us to get in there without insane bounces.
Comparing it to success of any other payment system is not even relevant, because bitcoin is extremely different model to any of them. It's not a company, this has never been tried in all the history so we have no reference point to anything. Especially not to some companies.

There's no ceo that can stabilize the price and that's why it's going to be more valuable then any asset we have seen before imho.

I think Gresham's law does apply to cryptocurrencies. Fiat currencies are the bad coins that people circulate. People will always use some kind of "bad" coins for transactions. In countries like Venezuela, they rather have USD than Bitcoin. When you don't have life necessities, you can't really worry about a Store of Value.

Bitcoin is both an asset and a medium of exchange with goods.  Consider bitcoin as gold, there are a number of countries where people use gold to exchange goods.  Bitcoin is valid for exchange at the time its rate is set.  Bitcoin is a form of investment asset when someone holds Bitcoin long enough for Bitcoin to increase or decrease in value.  To say that Bitcoin is not a means of exchange is not true.

Yes bitcoin is asset and can be used as a mode of exchange if both the party set a common term in case of any fluctuations within certain time because what if bitcoin is priced at $8000 while transferring and it pumps or dumps while getting transferred as it will be a loss or gain to one of the part. Instead of mean of exchange I feel bitcoin is more suitable as mode of payment and investment since there are lot of other crypto which can be used for exchange with a more stability.

You need to understand all the consequences in order for you learn how to maximize the use of this crypto currency. Bitcoin can be both assets and mode of payments, it's the end users own speculative assertions to what extent he will use this industry. What you know best will bring the most of of the venue of your chosen field. Keep enhancing your knowledge and follow what you think is best for you.

The market situation is indeed not possible to buy ALtcoin, so investors sell altcoin assets to become BTC. BTC dominance is currently still too high. But there will be a time when BTC dominance goes down and will be replaced by Altcoin. There are still many opportunities for altcoin.

If we see the increasing bitcoin perherakan bitcoin can be a media of future exchanges, in cryptocurrency nothing is impossible everything can happen, but starting from the beginning bitcoin has failed to be able to dominate the media market in a legitimate exchange, we hope there is The resurrection continues to be a trusted medium of exchange

They are called medium of exchange its because not all countries here in earth will be use btc like money, I believed on bitcoin future. We will use bitcoin for our future payments and for expenses but bare in mind that not all are happy if happens.

At this time of accumulation who will be stupid to use as medium of exchange, even the whales are guiding jealously maybe after bullrun profit will go into the market but doubt the use of crypto over fiat till then. We all know it with its level of return over the years, it gives the highest return in the last 10 years compare with any asset. Lets' prioritize and maximize the asset factor for now

It actually can.

You can buy goods with it by now. Japan is using it also as a medium of exchange.
The real problem for now is the volatility and that is what blinds us to see the real future.

There is still a lot of years before the mining ends and we might be dead at that time. I am hoping to see it but I guess I will just pass the torch to my kids and grandkids. They should really see a new kind of exchange which is safer and private.

Please, explain why would it apply? Gresham's Law applies to physical coins made from different materials, how can it apply to digital currencies? Are you saying that because today people use fiat instead of Bitcoin, it's a proof that the law is working? Because that's really not the case, they use fiat over Bitcoin because it's much more convenient and less risky.

The problem with this discussion is that the law uses terms like "good" and "bad", and people assign their own values to these words, while originally it was only used in relation to value of the material the money are made of.

> Are you saying that because today people use fiat instead of Bitcoin, it's a proof that the law is working?

Yes. People use fiat because they know that its supply inflates while Bitcoin supply eventually stops.

In Gresham's law, bad money drives out good money. If authority decreed silver coins and copper coins have the same value, people would keep silver coins and use copper coins. They keep to good money and dispose the bad money. So the medium of exchange currency would be the copper coins. It's easy to interpret Gresham's law for metal coins because we can compare them like apple-apple. For other types of currencies, we need a different interpretation.

I think of Gresham's law as less desirable money drives out more desirable money. The law does not imply good money is useless, it's the other way. Good money doesn't circulate because they are more desirable. Bitcoin's design of limited supply makes it desirable money. Its use case is Store of Value. People are hodling bitcoins. They're exchanging their fiat currencies for bitcoins. Fiat is less desirable.

At present, not a lot of companies or places offer payments in bitcoin or even any other crypto coin. There are only few of them that accept bitcoin. Gambling sites also have this feature but that day is still a bit away when digital coins will go mainstream. At present, these are best to be used as investments.  Fiat holds its own value. It is serving as the medium of exchange but things will evolve with time.

I hold the same opinion as you in this regard. Ripple is not better than bitcoin in anyway. Indeed it is the altcoin that has the highest buying rate among altcoins but that does not make it the number one digital currencies. Let us look at the market capital of both coins as this factor counts the most in showing progress and worth of something. Bitcoin is far above than that of ripple. It is a centralized coin too.

Actually this Bitcoin became multi Tallent. Because I know, besides Bitcoin investment as well as trading, because with Bitcoin it outperform other coins, making it flexible enough for Bitcoin all the direction he wants to go. For my exchange less so agree, since it is rare for Bitcoin to be redeemed in other forms of coins, more precisely many coins are more used to replace it as Bitcoin.