Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin as a currency that is decentralized, they is no Headquarters for Bitcoin and it has no Central office where they distribute information concerning Bitcoin, Like illicit transactions that money was lost but recovered after some investigations through the distributed information.

like someone said on my previous thread that more people will be comfortable using bitcoin if these features comes into place.

Share your thoughts.

"if bitcoin later becomes a traceable Currency"

Well, bitcoin is already traceable. In fact, you can look at the transactions being made right now through block explorer sites like Blockchain.com[1]. Hence why you mostly see funds stolen by hackers being stationary, as they definitely wouldn't want to be sending the funds on exchanges as this would most definitely expose who they are.

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[1] https://www.blockchain.com/btc/unconfirmed-transactions

Excatly.  People have the wrong idea that bitcoin is anonymous, but only if used with that specfic objective and cautious.

Blockchain is an open book. More open and more traceable than fiat transactions. You just need to know how to look.

There are many services like walletexplorer which also allows any user to connect different public addresses.
So, if scammers are dumb they can be easily be traced.

With wallet explorers what happens to the recovered money.

There are many scammer sin this space unfortunately, but some of the bigger ones are slowly getting caught as more and more people track and trace through the Blockchain and they get reported. People thinking that just because they are using Bitcoin, that they can just carry on doing their dirty business, they are mistaken. More and more countries are regulating the Digital Currency and Bitcoin space, so there are going to be more and more people chasing the Bad guys so it were. Cash is less traceable than Bitcoin because bitcoin transactions can be traced on the blockchain, which is an immutable ledger after all. Things will improve as more and more scammers get caught and end up in the courthouse and tried. We need more effective regulations, that is fore sure and more people taking a stand against the scammers who want to malign this industry at large.

If you take a look at walletexplorer does, you'll see that it just connects the address to a specific wallet and shows the list of all transactions related to the address the person typed in. So basically, nothing happens to anyone, since the ID is still hidden. Perhaps by 'traceable', you meant that one would be able to see who moved money where. In that case, it would at least be evident who has whose money (though not where this person is or how to make this person give up the money). But this will never happen because the community will strongly oppose this move since it would devaluate what Bitcoin is in many ways.

I think stolen funds are usually the opposite of stationary - thieves move them between addresses and then send them to mixing service, usually multiple times and through different services, and then look for p2p trades or other exchange methods that are more private then centralized exchanges. Even with chainanalysis, it's hard and not worth it to trace amounts that aren't too big. So, many thieves end up unpunished, even though Bitcoin's privacy is seemingly weak.

Bitcoin is traceable currency, it's not anonymous. Obviously, it's not that easy to find who is who there. And scammers are smart enough to hide traces. One of ways for scammers to clean their Bitcoins is to use mixer.
You're right basically. But it's possible to trace things on blockchain after looking deeper into it, especially if scammer make mistakes. Scammer just have to send Bitcoins to crypto exchange and he can be busted. Even random guy easy can find which address belongs to which exchange. I'm not even talking about feds. Then just they have to request exchange to give information about user and that's it. This is how users of children porn website were found for example:
https://www.wired.com/story/dark-web-welcome-to-video-takedown-bitcoin/

As said, blockchain is an open book. Download whole blockchain and you'll have whole data of all of transactions but why is bitcoin still considered as anonymous? It also depends on you to make transaction anonymous by using mixers and etc, then things are getting harder. So for them small people aren't alarm but they won't turn their back if there is illicit transaction where big guys are involved, then they'll try their best to dig and find them.
Just see yourself, every day more and more news are published where they say, some people that were laundering bitcoin, were found, hackers whom stole money, were found. Governments are getting better in transaction tracking everyday.

bitcoin address is currently your id, for example in the philippines
your bitcoin address needs verification from an online wallet where you submit KYC, to be able to be approved and be able to withdraw
thats means its already tracesable , since you already have the identity, even in other countries and exchanges they are also require kyc so as of now its already tracesable, unless you put fake identity which I think you can't do

What is the faith of scammers....
I was really curious to hear about although my bet would have been on the majority being atheist.
Fate not faith!!!!!!

As for their fate, nothing will change whatever you do, scammers will still be around, just as the ones camming over Paypal or MoneyGram or whatever are still actively doing their job. Even here there are scammers who are fully doxxed and still continue to pop every now and then and still try to make some quick money from some newbie. There are known scammers that have been arrested and now are free and enjoying their hidden stash, too few have been convicted.


What most people think of traceable in their way of "improving" bitcoin is the never to be done with idea of whitelist addresses or stuff like that.
So that every address would be linked to a known person and when you make a transaction 12gm1SGr4WVdso2pukhT3fykcrVW3mYA8P you can check that the address is listed as being a verified address on binance or coinbase.

And God helps us if any of those "marvelous" ideas gain some traction.

What do you mean by saying "if bitcoin later becomes a traceable currency"  are you trying to say if the exact locations of people using Bitcoin can be traceable or mean the transaction details can be traceable ? While for transactions made of the bitcoin blockchain network, it can be easily traced but for the locations of people making transactions on the network, it is quite untraceable since a lot of people using Bitcoins use vpn to mask their  IP addresses. This means that scammers have nothing really to be worried.

The most advertised part of Bitcoin is the "anonymity". This word is currently thrown with Bitcoin as if it's really anonymous, well it's not. It's just like what others have said and the correct term for that is pseudo-anonymous which means that there are still connections towards a username or something to that sense.

There are tools already being used to check if there are illegal activity in the Bitcoin Blockchain like Crystal [1] (https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelwolfson/2018/11/26/tracing-illegal-activity-through-the-bitcoin-blockchain-to-combat-cryptocurrency-related-crimes/)

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[1] - https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelwolfson/2018/11/26/tracing-illegal-activity-through-the-bitcoin-blockchain-to-combat-cryptocurrency-related-crimes/

That is if the scammers is a fool. Do you really think they are? There is already a plan before everything will happen.
What they say about being traceable is you could see where the funds is going (wallet address) but that doesn't mean you know who the owner of the wallet is. Unless, as I said it the scammer is an idiot for connecting his idiot profile into his wallet leading for him to be imprisoned.

Next is the question about the recovery. The police will need a proof to whomever the owner of the scammed coins is or it will stay at their possession until someone proves he owns this.

Correct, unlike cash or bank transactions we can see the whole history of how coins have moved to different wallets, the only thing in which bitcoin helps is that if you have never revealed your identity to the ones that you're dealing with, then your identity is safe and no one knows that you are the one that was holding those coins at that particular time.

But we know that governments are making huge efforts to try to make exchanges comply and force them to ask for your personal information.

How many scammers who scam people with fiat have been caught? Not all of them because majority don't  use real identity, same applies to scammers of btc or crypto most of them don't use their real identity to scam online, peop6 use fake id on exchange, even if btc becomes traceable someday i doubt the authorities will going after each scammers online, it will be a huge workload,
Hackers are more clever than use their real identity to hack unfortunately, those are the big fish that needs the attention of the authorities.

You are being naive...

Try to find someones world residence by looking at his virtual addresses...

That's the thing why if bitcoin becomes a traceable currency it will be good against scammers.
Currently it's anonymous, you can not trace who the real world user is, what's that person name, address, phone and so on.

Hackers get your funds if you provide such access to those private key addresses.

What? We're talking about the traceability of the money here.

1. Bitcoin is ALREADY traceable, and it's definitely not anonymous. It's just pseudonymous, because like you said, you can not affiliate a wallet address to a certain person, well, unless that person sends the funds to an exchange or centralized service. But again, the blockchain is fully public and transparent.

2. Well, duh.

scammers don't rely on traceability or lack of it. instead they rely heavily on gullibility of people to fall for the obvious scams. if you ever looked at how scams take place and use your head, you can always see that majority of them are too obvious that you'd be surprised how people got scammed in first place. and in less obvious ones, still the greed and gullibility plays a big role.
so whether bitcoin is traceable or not, does not change anything for scammers. they will continue doing what they have always done, even before bitcoin...

They will always find ways to make scam even using crypto or fiat money . Even the bitcoin is tracesable they will also find many ways to make the money more clean before getting it as fiat currency .  They can only trace the address but they will never who own that address and that was the hard part.

No I think bitcoin is not protected from traceability. Even as of today one can traceback transaction to specific entity but it is time and resource consuming also by the time it get traced the individual would have probably tried to do something to mitigate risks involved. But point being untill unless person is not crossing too many lines and hopes, there is very less risk anything will happen at all.

You can check my thread topic again, thanks for the knowledge.

Viewing bitcoin transactions on the explorer will review that bitcoin transactions can be traced to a final destination as it's been moved from wallet to wallet without been tempered with another technology or encryption. Most times people don't really want to trace it because hackers most times will never deposit the bitcoin on an exchange that has their KYC, which could easily lead to accurate tracing and blocking their transactions with enough evidence of course.

In addition to the information which you have been provided.
Wallet explorer is a ledger where you can get every information about the in and out transaction list of a bitcoin wallet address. Besides, you can also use it to find out if a certain wallet address is an exchange wallet with the inclusion of the name of the exchange site where the wallet belongs to and this is the reason why @bitmover said

What particular traceability are you specifically saying? Because for me, bitcoin is already traceable, and wallet address could be known because of the open transaction or public ledger. And if we are to make bitcoin resistant to scammers, it is quite impossible to track people that are using it. My idea is to send the GPS location of a particular person based on their wallet address where they make transaction. And I think that is impossible because it will disregard the rights of the person having that wallet address interms of privacy.

I don't it would actually be a good idea to make bitcoin a traceable currency. We are all aiming to be anonymous here so that we can make private transactions since the value of our holdings is very high. I think we should aid scammers through other means like making a system that tracks down scammers and accepts complain from investors. It may seem too hard to achieve but that would definitely be a great help for all of us since scammers are consuming much of our money and our time and they need to be caught and punished.

Is not every bitcoin transaction and another cryptocurrency can be tracked easily? what is not easy is to get the identity of the wallet owner, if the scammer is stupid and sends the stolen directly to the wallet exchange, it will be very easy to find his identity if it is officially reported as fraud.
Fraudsters are cunning, they will do everything and cover up their bad things well, so we must always be careful.

Bitcoin transactions were traceable, for the same we've got different websites. If the end users or if particular wallet belongs to a person is known then it is completely transparent. As end users or wallet holding data weren't known bitcoin transaction is termed anonymous, but bitcoin is pseudonymous.

Already its traceable, but without the knowledge of the wallet owner it is impossible to send or receive funds, only the wallet will be visible with clear description of wallet balance and transactions.

it was kinda traceable since every transaction was recorded in the blockchain or in the etheirscan.io,
but it is impossible to trace the sender of the transaction as a decentralized currency if bitcoin was by a hacker and send the funds to his account there is no way you could get information to his identify you are only going to know the address and trace the transaction of the hacker, also no way to get your money back if it was hack.

I often wonder about this.

As has been repeatedly stated it has always been traceable. What will change is the software that sifts through it. No way will we be told what The Man has already let alone what'll come in the future.

There may come a time where all the tax man has to do is press one button and out spews millions of retrospective tax bills.

It's difficult to track and to affiliate to a person, but it's definitely NOT impossible. A certain person's identity can be easily affiliated with a certain address if that certain person is not careful enough. That's why chain analysis exists. Because sending funds to a wallet address of a centralized platform can affiliate the sender address to your identity.

Is there a deterrent effect so that the scammers no longer do crypto space?
Like for example in prison or what compensation have they taken?
I have never seen such a thing in my country.

When i start bitcoin almost 3 years ago. This is traceable already. But there is no office that can give penalty to scammers and no office and recovery that can help you with scammer. You must fully aware by yourself like me before transacting.

But i think i would be a good thing if there is recovery. The bitcoin will become more centralize. And many more people in the country will enjoy using the bitcoin. I am looking forward to this in future. And seeing bitcoin as the currency in every country

Actually, bitcoin transactions can be traced. Unless used bitcoin mixers to mislead the btc address. Transactions can be seen and IP address are possible to check. Haven't you heard that some criminals were being caught even if they are transacting using btc? Like this one. (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/why-criminals-cant-hide-behind-bitcoin)

There are already tons of advance software now that can track down transactions like btc.

With the help of experts and the government everything is traceable now, there is no impossible if we will just give time. Anyway, so far now, we knew a lot of scammers but it's very hard to caught them, there are even founders who were known in the public and that they are not hiding in the public but still turned out to be scammer, so it would be really not easy to sue them for now.

Yes its possible to trace it but the problem how will you know if that persons is the real owner of the said address. Unless they can find the key of the address use to for illigal . If its only for wallet transfer they are chances that the man they caught is not the same person who make the illegal activity .

The network is not and cannot be anonymity. This is an axiom and principle of work. All maneuvers, with TOR or VPN - only complicate the task until the software is written.

Here is a fresh fact (another one this year):

[06.12.2019] University of New Mexico specialists released information on a vulnerability affecting Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, macOS, iOS, Android, and other Unix-based operating systems. The problem allows you to listen and intercept VPN connections, as well as inject arbitrary data into IPv4 and IPv6 TCP streams.

The vulnerability that received the identifier CVE-2019-14899 is associated with the network stacks of Unix-based operating systems, in particular, with the way the OS react to unexpected network packets.

https://seclists.org/oss-sec/2019/q4/122

I think technically its really traceable. It just need experts to do a thorough research and tracing for cases like that. Basically, bitcoin is created in a virtual way and those people creating are experts and they can really dig into it if needed. Maybe for some unsecure processes or sites might as well scammers will take advantage. Hopefully we can have a particular go to site whenever we experience that situation.

bitcoin is not really untraceable you can use explorer to see where the bitcoin will go
you can check in wallet explorer if there is other address connected in the user bitcoin address
its not really impossible but it is hard and takes a lot of time to trace user

I agree with you that it will be difficult for them to find it out but anything is possible when it comes to money so what can we expect? it's absolutely true that they are going to do anything just to get what they wanted, they will always figure out how they can deceive and take advantage of you. Scammers are getting wiser these days and it is the reason why we need to be more aware of our surroundings and be cautious in every decision we make.

Scammers will have more than 1000 ways to scam people either with fiat or crypto like what you all said. Maybe it is right, better to save ourself and make us understand how they are work so we can avoid it. I think it is better to do first and then we can try to make people know how scammer works so they are not trapped.

Figuratively it is traceable, by which the addresses can be expose happen to be connected to each other but things like that could be negative or positive action. Like me, I've created many account on coinbase already because of lost emails, cellphone number and passwords which is more likely to trace by wallet explorer. I think what the OP really meant is, is there really a way to name these hackers? or trace accounts to whom it belongs.

Yes Bitcoin transactions can be traced. In this digital world nothing is impossible, a few firms has built software that can be tracked to help law against  illegal  earnings  or transaction. Can be traced through bitcoin address you get all the history of transaction. 

tracking only includes complicated algorithms, and scammers are quite adept at biasing it.

even in fiat which has been very easy to handle every transaction tracking is still easily fooled. Bitcoin is more complicated if it has entered the laundry / mixing process. it's not like fiat which only manipulates user data. Simply put it will only reduce the number of frauds, but the next target will be bigger and more structured.

Bitcoin has grown without Headquarters and Central offices and I think people will no longer use bitcoin for investment if it comes with regulation that actually controls bitcoin.

And the scam accidents will be reduced but it will not go away, there are many things that need to change one with the government's acceptance of bitcoin. But this is unlikely to happen especially in countries like China.

Before answering this question, I want you to answer me that before 2009 (When there was no bitcoins), were there no scams ? There were scams and people used fiat currency to scam even though it was traceable. Bitcoin have only helped the evil minded people who existed even before the invention of bitcoins. Those scammer will continue to exists even if bitcoins becomes traceable.

Scammers in this crypto ecosystem will always find a way to scam people in as much that Bitcoin or the entire cryptocurrencies become traceable. scammers usually explore on people who either have no knowledge or ignorant on how the entire crypto space. Scammers do not target experts in the crypto ecosystem. They are always looking for the vulnerable ones in the ecosystem.  Bitcoin being traceable will not really solve the problem of scam. Scammers will always be around so far as there are ignorant people among us..

Fiat has had this since it was created and there still scammers even after the trace them.  ::) Your topic is pointless.
Even if you trace someone who you say is a scammer it's still your claim. You still have to prove it in the eyes of the law and it is a long and painful process. Better just hire someone to break the persons knee caps and take what they owe you. This is what scammers deserve. The damn cowards.

Just to be absolutely sure you understand. The police sometimes know someone is a murderer and the murderer knows they know but they can do nothing without proper proof and things. Sometimes you just have to wait around for them to commit another crime and catch them in the act.

You speak correctly. Sometimes own beliefs are not enough. If there is no fact of fraud or rather an evidence, you can't prove anything. This is a very difficult deal.

Bitcoin can always be tracked, but if you don't exchange BTC for Fiat money no one can track and know your identity. If we use a centralized exchange of identity the scammers can be found, but I think they wouldn't be foolish to use their true identities.

Personally, I think it will mean bad news for scammers, once Bitcoin becomes tradeable.
 It will be easy to track and persecute them for the evil acts they have done.
 But I have a question, isn't it's untraceable nature what makes btc better than the fiat?

It can actually be traced, there wouldn't be services like mixers if it cant be traced. There are many scammers who were caught because of the feature but the real big scammers like exchanges that turned scam and did an exit scam are usually the big fish that might not even face trail. Those are the bigger ones that in the real world can buy juries.

In any business where it smells of money, there are scammers. Large fraudsters are known to a narrow circle of specialists. Usually they don’t even try to catch them. There is such an opportunity, it’s all about whether you have the right software, because there is always a trace - this is the scam computer’s IP, this is the geography of accessing the Internet and then it's a matter of technology.

Minor scammers are almost unknown. Unlike their victims, they are inventive. They are not stupid, otherwise they are caught. Every petty swindler dreams of becoming big. Therefore he invents. And we are sitting and watching. We are not inventing anything. We are waiting for unwanted guests to come to us.

Hardware wallets are already breaking. Fraudsters - evolving, and ordinary people let fat. This is always the case, nothing new, whatever crypto-technology would come up with for us, we are not able to withstand the attack.

What if the question is just like this, "What is the fate of Bitcoiners if it becomes a traceable currency?"

They may not trace the source of origin when doing some transaction but they can identify what addresses are moving funds and it is easy to tag them once they entered the exchanges to pass the KYC.

Anyway, back to your topic. The idea that I wrote is just the same as what you think even though Bitcoin is a decentralized cryptocurrency but the fact that all of the information is showed to the public except with our private keys.

Unless they could possibly extract information such as personal information from exchanges associated with the accounts of a person violating any legal laws. But in this case, they couldn't possibly do that, because of the exchange itself any data privacy act that supports the release of any personal information of a person. What they could do in a case is to try to develop a system where an IP addresses could be detected based on the wallet address.

What OP does mean is not traceable by what address, but by person, which is by reality, is almost impossible to happen. By now, the bitcoin network and community has grown into size that is unmanageable and untracable, even if they try to implement KYC to every exchange, people would always find a way. If they had thought of if right from the start, then maybe it could happen. But conditions right now doesn't give hope for governments to make their surveillance to its users.

Bitcoin is not anonymous, in fact every transaction that you make can be traced on the blockchain, so it's already traceable. The only thing here is, while they can trace the transaction to the address, tracing the address to the individual might require some sort of authority. Exchanges now have KYC in place, so if government entities want to trace a suspicious address to the individual, they can actually do so.

After reading so many replies on how we can trace back the owner of addresses, I hope you have understood the concept on how Bitcoin works. There are still ways to be anonymous and transact but its too hard with present technology.

I think the problem is not that scam transactions can't be traced (because they can be) but the thing is that once a person is scammed there is little help available because the transaction can't be reversed unlike with PayPal or any traditional means of doing it. However, even if Bitcoin can be revered, still scammers are known to be innovative, creative and very intelligent they can easily devise ways and means for the benefit of their "craft and business" making scamming one of the most known ways of making money online.

It’s not a matter of tracking down a scammer or not. Even if they are tracked, even if they are found, this will be only a separate episode. This is not a solution to the problem.

The fraud system itself will not disappear with the capture of any number of these characters. The system itself, contributing to the spread of bitcoin theft, is based on the fact that you "have a safe key" in which the money is.

The key is your concern and your fraud problems.

For this reason, an alternative to key technologies is proposed - keyless technologies. But, so far, few people perceive it, everyone is waiting for the "thunder to strike." Who is creative, see here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5204368.0

You hide the key. This works well when you do not need to use bitcoin.

Then, when you use bitcoin, you send the key hash - to some server. The fraudster does not need your key in its original form. He needs this particular key hash. Because the server does not know your key, it knows the key hash.
Further, the scammer makes a phishing attack, receives a key hash, and all your money is almost certainly lost.

Yes, a modern phishing attack provides the same encryption between the client and the phishing server as the original server. Therefore, if they managed to attack you, it means that you will exchange encryption keys with a phishing site, so you have established a “secure” communication channel, but with a phishing site, and pass the hash of your key on it.
It's all.
Woo a la.
And what was the point of storing it in a hardware wallet if it was stolen at the time of its use?

Not convincing? Here are the facts from today.

[10:27, 12/08/2019]
According to the annual Security Intelligence Report prepared by Microsoft, the number of phishing attacks in recent years has grown three and a half times.

What happened?
Are there more nonchalant people or are scammers working better?
Try to answer this question.

Customers of banks, payment systems and telecom operators are increasingly becoming victims of phishers. Internet fraudsters gain access to confidential user data (logins, passwords and plastic cards), directing potential victims to fake sites and services.
Check here:
 https://www.microsoft.com/securityinsights/

Obviously, if you have a key "from the safe where the money is", they will always hunt for this key.

This is a phenomenon. And you need to fight with the phenomenon, not with the fraudster. 2 new ones will always come to the local 1 caught fraudster.
 
Hardware wallets are also subject to hacking, unfortunately.
Everyone knows this information:

Cyber-experts from Wallet.fail discovered a number of vulnerabilities in the Trezor and Ledger hardware cryptocurrency wallets. As a result, they managed to carry out a series of successful wallet attacks during the Chaos Communication Congress in Leipzig.

Experts said that vulnerabilities lie in software and hardware, firmware, software architecture and web interface.

During the demo attacks, the Wallet.fail team managed to extract the PIN and mnemonic core from RAM Trezor, remotely sign the transaction and crack the Ledger Nano S bootloader, and intercept the Ledger Blue PIN.

Really, you need to close your eyes to these facts, and continue to convince yourself of the absolute safety of "wallets" and key obsolete technologies?

I also believe that the anonymity in crypto is quite high, so people who cheat are certain they manipulate when making transactions. may be tracked but need accuracy and access to be able to track the transactions made, and certainly requires special handling with experts

Maybe not now and it will take time but fore sure that time will come they will be traceable, there is nothing impossible in this world, everything can be created and everything can be learned and can do one day, just like cryptocurrency, who would have thought this is possible, I din't even imagine this when I didn't know this yet, so I am looking forward that scammers can be traced.

Bitcoin has the same or less security as blockchain technology.

In parallel there are 2 processes:

1) Bitcoin covers more and more supporters and capital, is used as a means of payment.
Most Bitcoin owners use it only as a means of accumulating and storing capital.
This is a minus!

2) Technologies are developing that can crack any cryptography using public and private keys. These technologies are developing very fast. Worst of all, the pace of their development is not predictable. First of all, it is quantum computing, which is provided to users as a service through a network. Just pay the money and use it. This is problem. This is negative for us.

If we compare the rate of development of these two processes, look at the result in 5-10 years, we will see the faster pace of development of process No. 2).

And finally, encryption on elliptic curves is probably no longer reliable. But no one ever admits this to us. There are many benefits to those who are silent.

In fact, in military affairs and in intelligence, asymmetric cryptography is never used, only symmetric.

Is there an answer to this question?

Bitcoin will not reach this height or popularity, if they implement traceable transactions, it is the best feature of Bitcoin decentralized and untraceable, although, with the present tie-up with the exchange, it has become more traceable, we should keep it that way because people are adopting it because of this feature and to me, it's Bitcoin's best feature.

If it becomes traceable there will still be 2 major problems standing between the police and the scammers. The first one is personal information. Even if you trace coins back to the scam you will have to know who the scammer was. How are you going to do it? Scammer steals coins in 2018 and then sells them in a DEX exchange in 2020. It's now 2025. You don't know who that was and even if you find out what are you going to do? Chase him around the world for a 100k USD?
What about prescription of the offense? It can take 10 or 20 years before you're able to fully trace BTC.

Speaking frankly if traceable transactions were involved in bitcoin then it wouldn't have been such a huge success as every transaction would have been traced back to its owner. Bitcoin became popular when darknet websites became accepting it as a means to pay just because of its pseudo anonymous nature. I personally feel safe while using bitcoin because my identity is safe and no one can track my records.

If bitcoin not have popularity maybe not one want to label their project with bitcoin name and always safety investing with bitcoin and altcoin, after bitcoin raise above $16k many people want to make business using bitcoin name although have scheme project by giving fake earning for investor and take bitcoin as their source to make investor interested.

Bitcoin is already traceable. But the identity of the crooks is hard to reach. Stolen bitcoins can be removed from the system. Similar situations were experienced in the Ethereum. Now let's talk about the real problem. CZ made a statement. At Binance, they hacked into the system and the btc was stolen. They talked about getting the bitcoin chain back. That would be a terrible operation.

There are ways to use Bitcoin anonymously, it' s just that nowadays getting Bitcoins without having to go through a KYC process is pretty impossible so we're fucked. Even if we use a Bitcoins mixer to get anonymous bitcoins, and someone uses our Bitcoins for illegal activities we would have to prove that we weren't using those Bitcoins to avoid jail.

That is why regardless of how advanced is our technology the best way to protect yourself is to use your common sense, which is unfortunately something that many people do not use in this market because they are to used to the fiat system in which if you make a mistake the bank is behind you in order to protect you.

But in the market of cryptocurrencies you are your own bank and if you make a mistake there is no one that can do anything to get those coins back.

Are you even sure that the bitcoin is still not traceable? There is a misconception that is existing on the market and it is the anonymously of bitcoin. People think that bitcoin transaction is not traceable but in a reality it can be trace through blockchain. Scammers will not be traceable if they will use bitcoin mixers and tumblers service where the goal of its platform is to confuse the blockchain so that the transaction will never be traceable.

Bitcoin transactions can indeed be tracked but as far as I know transactions can be manipulated, so there are people using it by manipulating transactions. actually it can be tracked but the people doing the tracking must have a lot of access between markets and also have quite good knowledge in conducting data investigations

As of right now, many people aren't worried about transactions being logged and traced, but I'm sure theres a cyber crime unit somewhere in the world piecing together tech that will be able to trace transactions to physical addresses or something of that nature.
   I sincerely believe that the future of Blockchain and crypto will get a lot more transparent if governments are willing to work with developers, merchants and entrepreneurs in this sector. We need to reach a middle ground with the policy makers and regulators.

Dude they cant even do this now. They never will be able to trace like that. You cant just track someone. If it was that easy the police would track dangerous criminals with the greatest of ease. If you cannot track something like fines how will they track millions of transactions?

Everything can be create but how to make it worth and popular around the world, if some one try to make new coin how to build and have higher price like bitcoin is not easy, they get many problem by how to promote become interested like bitcoin and want to get investor, bitcoin need process how wake up with higher price and keep get much profit for making transaction later.

I know that one day scammers will have their own fate that they will lose something much bigger than they got from the people, so once somebody took advantage over me and scam me, I just move on immediately as I know that someday someone will scam them too, life is a circle, I can still earn what I lost, so I don't worry much about it and focus on earning more.

 well , scammers may lose jobs somehow , but the aim of bitcoin as a Decentralized digital currency and  means of payment will be defeated.

Upon the invention of technology such as cryptocurrency, there is also a wider security features being invented. It is not just decentralization and anonymity is the feature we could get from blockchain and crypto, if there are scammers, these technology will not just protect them but could also track their other business through the blockchain info. In that regards, scamming is really a risky way of earning money. If they tend to be busted, other innocent people might be entangled with their cases and could be blamed as well. So, we as a regular cryptocurrency users, we should also be aware and be serious about the transactions that we have each and every time.

There are already plenty of ways to make to trace Bitcoin transactions. As for me, if Bitcoin would be more traceable in the future, scammers will still their own strategies and techniques to look for new victims. They will always find ways to fool people because Bitcoin is convertible to money which is also known to be the root of all evil. Scammers will still exist no matter what the changes are.

at least efforts to reduce the total number of frauds can occur actively with strict tracking, large fraud schemes will continue to camouflage, but are able to make a big impact for fraud on a small scale. If we talk about reputation, it must be built with cleansing from regular activities that come from downstream.

Correct, it is traceable but we can't yet track the whole thing and give an accurate result of who is the hacker, something like that, where he live, how old is he, so on and so forth, maybe that was OP wanted to say, to have a more advance tracing process.

All that we could track also as of now is the IP address (hoping the hacker or scammer is not using a VPN), that uses different IPs whenever they want to.

In fact bitcoin is no longer safe to be anonymous, especially since our transactions such as exchanging fiat currency have fallen into the 3rd party or legal way, as in my country the local wallet here is licensed by BSP (Bank of the Phillipines) so when you cash out your money it is straight into bank accounts and if it is suspicious then your money can be held by the bank and you must provide documents that prove it is the safe legal way you earn.

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Sorry for the clarification, but VPN had not been traced before, like the TOR.

It was yesterday.

Now both technologies are traceable, you just need to have a tool. Moreover, it turned out that these technologies supporting anonymity on the network - have huge vulnerabilities that allow smart people to exploit your entire device. And even determine which keys you press on the keyboard or on the screen.

This is today.

And that is exactly why we should go for having such implementation.
Regarding scammers being one of the reasons why bitcoin is so hard to legalize. There should be a system implementing such thing.

Whereas even decentralized government could get our addresses from for example an exchanger linked to your personal real life Identification.
That way you would not need to wait for their confirmation for you to use your addresses and it will be immediatly updated on their database.

You think it's not safe because you're using it the wrong way. Smart bitcoiners buy and sell bitcoin for cash or sell for merchandise. If they really want to convert they do it on exchanges that allow you to withdraw through ATMs or gift cards. Smart bitcoiners don't use exchanges with KYC and those who really have to, buy pictures of IDs on the dark web and sent those, instead of their real ones.

no they arent . there were also people loves btc to become partially anonymous and this was the main idea of its creator so why revise it  ?

btc will only loose some avid costumers and they could be switching on other cryptos that are still anonymous  . scammers can still be avoided if people will only become wiser and smarter but let say if btc and cryptos  are fully traceable , scammers will think twice before doing such act and the scammer will also be reduce dramatically  .

Many say here that Bitcoin can indeed be tracked for transactions, but it's better if there is a more sophisticated system to find people who commit fraud or take our Bitcoin secretly, for example, their data can be seen or their faces recorded with sensors that are has been prepared with a tool that has been designed. That's just my imagination. ;D

whoever says it has no idea about what blockchain is
bitcoin is more traceable than fiat transfers, it is pseudoanonymous , not anonymous
the main problem that it can be traced allright, but it cannot be traced to  you , so to say
the transactions are public , the addresses are public , where did the money go is well known , but they can't link it to a certain person ( if he doesn't want to and is clever enough not to leave traces behind )

if you think there will be no scammers if it becomes totally centralized , god forbid , look no further - fiat money scamming and illicit usage dwarfes  any of cryptocurrencies or other assets combined

Actually it's possible if you're a pro computer specialist, it's easy for you to trace in the chain network (if it's not designed as decentralized) and breach the computer used for scamming and get the actual photo of that scammer.

Soon, it will be more advanced since cybercrime now is very often and the internet is getting more dangerous than the usual days of browsing.

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There will be a time that scammers will be easily tracked once a user reported a case of scam and can be traced quickly to locate the scammer.  Technology is getting more development and one of its features in the future will be its tracking system.  ;D

They can be trace actually, because as far as I know if you reported that particular scammer and proved it to the moderator they can actually ban the account of that particular scammer and they can also give negative trust if the crime is not that big deal but still you scam other people. I can say that they can innovate that kind of technology and can trace any malicious threat in which your money is at stake and can be scam by other people, the only lesson in here is that you should be active or informed in every decision you make before taking any step for you to secure your money.

It can be but for now it's not worth it. Teams that do it like for the FBI are spending a lot of time and human resources to track people and they're interested in big fish like that guy owner of BTC-e that was laundering money. So if you're a big scammer who took millions you have reasons to worry but then you can probably run to a country with no extradition :D

It's called KYC and there's no way we could get that kind of information or data if they didn't submit it themselves but most of the scammers know well that doing so will only expose their identites so they choose not to do that. However, if the whole crypto enable a further tracing then we will lost our freedom aswell and it's not really decentralized. The transparent transaction is enough.

I firmly believe KYC is not something that is deterring scammers
this is a known tool of some shady casinos to not pay winnings , for example and it is nothing good for a legitimate user
the anti-scam and AML and such is just a pretext to collect your personal data
I'm equally cautious about revealing it , especially in the age of the big data we live in
Facebook and Instagram etc. know about you more than your wife/husband does and its the sad truth
bitcoin is designed to be partially anonymous and let it stay this way , if I want to be fully transparent , I can use VISA or any other money

Who said that scammers are not traceable?  The governement are continuing to strengthen their systems in order to trace the scammers. There are now many scammers that are been arrested because of our technology and also because of the blockchain. People thought that we cannot trace scammers if they using bitcoin but it is a misleading information and the truth is they can trace using blockchain.

For your information, bitcoin transactions are already traceable thru blockchain.info website. The only problem is they can't trace who really is the owner of the addresses.

If you will see in the past years, there are some scammers who are getting arrested but there are more scammers who aren't arrested because they are intelligent enough to both hide themselves and to market. So in short, Bitcoin is a traceable currency already but it isn't that easy to trace because of the pseudo-anonymous feature of Bitcoin itself.

In fact, to implement this you need to fully control the network.To realize the refund you still need to prove that money are really Yours.It's a complicated mechanism.

Some said that the Bitcoins is traceable now that is new knowledge for me. In my perspective even the source of income is traceable, scammers may have an alternative move to avoid detection because scammers is scammers. But I don't know if that happens or more implemented it can become a feature to avoid future problems.

May they have luck when bitcoin is traceable? totally traceable that they are identified if they withdraw it in to fiat and being captured. but in this days scammers are not afraid, some of projects now that have active ceo are still scamming investors and run and not being captured even they are traceable. why? because scammers are have their own improvements too, they are now transparent with flowery words. so now, just don't be victimize if you don't want your money will scam by those trickster.

we really can't trust fully about security by third parties in crypto, so it's better we just secure our own funds rather than having to rely on people out there so therefore in crypto knowledge becomes important

KYC was never about catching scammers, scammers are criminals so they're going to do everything they can to hide their identity so those policies do not really bothers them, those policies were put in place to try to tell who was holding huge amounts of bitcoin and then to try to tax them.

But obviously those that are holding huge amounts of bitcoin are not going to reveal their identities just so they have to pay huge amounts of money to the government that did nothing to deserve or earn that money.

Bitcoin can already be traced, there is nothing anonymous about it. Do you ever follow up with recent scam stories? Most of them these days makes use of coin mixers to confuse your search; when they steal Bitcoin they quickly send it to coin mixers and that way you wouldn't be able to trace it anymore (one of the reasons why a lot of people are against Coin Mixers these days, because scammers are using them.).

So Bitcoin is not anonymous, if someone scam you they can easily be traced on the Blockchain. You can trace the addresses and the exchanges that the coin is being sent to, and there is nothing hidden about it. If the scammer is a novice, you will easily get them.

Well if the scammers are professionals and even new, I think they would not do such things in the first place. Only dumb people who are ready to get jailed or messed up will certain engage on those illicit activities. As of now lets just avoid being scammed an the likes, that way we can minimize criminal activities in the crypto space.

Scammers certainly have many ways, but we must also have ways to avoid their projects. and if crypto can be tracked easily and cannot be manipulated again, transaction scammers can be reduced, I really hope scammers can disappear from the crypto space

Why do you need a central office when you have the capability to transact without a centralized structure and who said it is not traceable when every transaction is in a public ledger and there are companies who are investigating dubious movement of coins and in the future we might see all the scammers been dragged to court in the coming years.

These Centralized exchange contributed to Bitcoin's being traceable of course apart from the blockchain explorer where all transactions are recorded, so far many hackers are being caught but these exchanges must keep up to battle these hackers, there are so many exchange hacking happens this year.

I think it was just the same thing since bitcoin was traceable in the blockchain but still have an anonymous transaction, all of the transaction in the network was recorded in the blockchain so it was kinda traceable in away. Almost all the people will be comfortable when those features will be implemented because anyone can locate and retrieve their lost money because of the scammers. It will not also be not just for the scammers but also for the wrong transactions or transferring money from one to another. If you think about it could easily help scammers to trace the bitcoin but also it could help us trace them also.

I also hope that in the future scammer will disappear from the world of cryptocurrency. But it is a very difficult one because there is nothing against scammer in this market, cryptocurrency cannot be monitored, and if in the future if crypto cryptocurrency is to be monitored and controlled, I think this market will quickly collapse. Currently we can only protect ourselves against scammer

A scammer will just fond other ways of scamming. Scammers even open a bank account and don't care id you know them. They will use stolen info and other peoples names. In court, you need much more than this to convict someone or else everyone would be convicted for such small things. You need a good lawyer and all your ducks in tow to convict someone. It will help but it will never make for an open shit case. But at least they can watch for activity on the suspected addresses.

Bitcoin is already traceable. We don't know who sent it for Bitcoin. We don't know who's the buyer. But we can follow the journey of bitcoin. IDs will appear if shooting in a Kyc Exchange. There's not that much privacy in real life.

For one, the theft would need to be large enough that international authorities would want to get involved, and that is extremely unlikely.

Two, Bitcoin would need to be considered property of value by any jurisdiction handling the case, without this, it's no different than stealing some in-game currency from another player.

That said, Bitcoin is already traceable, there are dozens of analytics platforms that are already looking to piece together ID, IP and transaction information to put a face to as many wallet addresses as they can.

Every time you provide your KYC info, you're helping to build this mesh.

Their fate does not change traceable or not for sure they will be caught or if not by doing bad things they lower their morals as a person. Although some exchanges are communicating with each other if there is a proven stolen fund. Centralized exchanges can do that easily, But sometimes it's scary to use a service like that what if you are just framed. But I doubt these hackers uses centralized exchanges. If there is specific info attach to each bitcoin address it is not bitcoin anymore.

When Bitcoin becomes a trackable currency, it is difficult for scammers to perform their actions. When monitored, employers will better manage their money. We should find ways to destroy the crooks that harm us. Do not lose money to protect your account.

i think thats enough to keep safe our money here in crypto,but that is "For the Mean time" because we already knew what is the capacity of these people and they always find ways to victimized.
sooner they will have another option on where they can hide their personality and continue their stupid style of profiteering .

What the content creator wants to say is what if the bitcoin transaction becomes more transparent or what we called becomes lighten the transactions that we are doing, what would be happen to those people who are doing bad activities like scamming other people and etc. Maybe what will happen is it will be pretty simple to arrest and get those scammers and hackers in order to revenge or get the money or the properties that are being scam on us buy them, but before that happens it would be more great if we will be assured that they are the one who really scam or hack our accounts and money in order to not waste the newly improve transparent transactions. I hope that after a few years, the transaction according to the cryptocurrency becomes more variant and transparent.

I don't know what the argument is about?
People, read the special literature, there's knowledge on the subject.

Here's the simplest example, which is easily tested by everyone in practice. And there's nothing to argue about here, it's for a decentralized P2P logical network - you're anonymous, relatively centralized, and for ordinary network routers - you're an ordinary client with an ordinary set of identifiers.

I don't understand those who here talk about anonymity in the network in principle.

It's a self-deception.

The CryptoLux group, back in 2014, published their paper investigating bitcoin and transaction anonymity on the network. It follows from their work that it is possible to bind bitcoin addresses to users' ip addresses, even if they are behind a NAT or firewall, or using a Tor network. Only a couple of ordinary computers and a budget of $2000 are needed to bind them.

Previously, network research has been done to correlate different transactions and bind them to one user by analyzing a chain of blocks.

The approach from this work is based on real time network traffic analysis.
When you intend to make a transaction on the network, your client connects to a set of eight servers.
These are input nodes and the set is unique for each user.
When you make a transaction through your wallet, the input nodes send information about the transaction to the bitcoin network.
The essence of the method is to identify the set of input nodes, through them - the purse, and through it - the user.
In this case, the client's ip-address can be linked to its transactions.

Even if several users are behind NAT and are simultaneously working with the network, each of them will have its own set of eight nodes, which will distinguish it from the others.

In addition, a few simple technical steps will make it possible to forbid Tor output nodes to perform transactions.

So what's to argue about?

Scammers will use all sorts of currency to do their dirty work, Bitcoin is actually more traceable than hard Cash because every transaction is recorded on the Blockchain because that is what the blockchain, is a ledger where transactions are recorded lol, which makes it more transparent to use than FIAT ever was. We have had criminals and scammers using FIAT for centuries, so Bitcoin is much safer to use, but you need to be more aware of how to look after your wallets and also to not go to dodgy sites to so-called invest when they promise you shining lights, Lambos and fast money. If you look after your Bitcoin well, you won't get scammed so easily. Many now Bitcoin using criminals get caught because their transactions on the blockchain can be traced back to their nasty little wallets. We can nab then now easier than those who hoard and launder cash around.

so if thats the case then we should answer the main question mate and that is the Fate of Scammers since they are one of the important reason why tracing is must be in place.

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for me?even traceable or not?scammers will continue their journey and nothing can stop them,but we can prevent from happening if we will close our doors to become a victims.

never be greedy and always follow the rules in engaging transactions here in crypto,remember that they're sweet words can attract people at any time specially when we are a greedy person.

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Absolutely agree.
It's better than that.

It only works if the cryptography on elliptical curves is reliable. If the elliptical curves used in the blockchain have no weak points.

But there is a danger that nobody understands, but the consequences of which are observed by very attentive people.

If you are interested in details, take a look at the subject:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5209297.0.

This is one of the problems and people really need to stop being greedy. They fall for the most ridiculous things. Never listen to promises people will make you. They will be doing I themselves if they really had such a proposition. Always ask why they do not use their own money? Much better to invest in something you can see, like someone else's business or even your own. Then you can see the profits the costs and the loses with your own eyes and make a proper educated decision. People invest in things they don't even know what they investing in and some people cannot get buyers for legit things they sell. It disgusts me.

Unless you use a mixer....
That way nobody will be able to reproduce such mentioned steps thus making it impossible for tracing them.

There should be a rule for such cases where mixers would be forbidden which will deny every sorce of hiding traceable data from such scammers.

but I think fraudsters must have looked for other ways to manipulate transactions. but if it can happen I am sure that fraud can be reduced, because the way to stop them might close some of their access to where they commit fraud. Although I'm sure that not all fraud will disappear, I think it can be reduced

Definitely, but what you are pertaining to the ways to stop them is quite hard. We need a system that is regulated to be implemented in a space where everything is decentralized and that is too hard because of the features that cryptocurrency has compared to fiats that is already regulated. With this, other ways of restricting fraudsters to access the market is needed rather the traditional way. I hope soon there will be systems that will implement this but right now, what we can just do is to become personally responsible to our actions for us to avoid getting our funds compromised.

when bitcoin becomes traceable that simply means that its already regulated   . scammers will be reduced drastically but like you guys said there are other scammers that will try to cope up with the new system so that is why that we must not be confident even if btc is traceable already but we shall double our safety measure's because scammers becames stronger on that moment      .  however i dont think that some will like the idea of a traceable crypto

or even better , introduce the mixers that are working in conjuction with the agencies and the law enforcement
advertise them , make them popular and just sit and wait for the "dirty" coins to appear
this way you will have all the history and can trace the coins
I'm sure this is what being done , since it is a very easy solution and none can guarantee that our favorite mixers are not doing it right now
do not overestimate your anonymity on internet , it is not what you think it is

I think Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies transactions are already traceable but not entirely because if you look on the transaction made upon Blockchain you could the address of the reciever which only imply that you coule really trace it. In addition, even if it is traceable we cannot remove these scammers because like in fiat where it is fully regulated there are still some cases of scam. Therefore, scammers are inevitable they could adapt to the system and find other way to do their scheme.

Yes it is traceable and blockchain cannot lie, but we can't really trace who is the owner unless the exchange will disclose it but I don't think if it is a legal thing, but maybe in legal matters and if the government will request to a exchange then for sure the exchange is oblige to disclose who is the owner of this address, so scammers has a less number of days.

Well the thing is bitcoins itself is not a currency which is too hard to trace , it can be done easily if everything is reversed by someone who knows all about it , it is actually very very open and people can easily fall into the hands of governmental bodies , the scammers might easily be tracked if the government employees people who are very efficient in this .
It is trackable.
You need KYC almost everywhere now .

Bitcoin is already traceable. Now fraudsters can opt for more confidential subcoins. In addition, the system is open to fraud in all circumstances. I don't think it's a bitcoin or a dollar or euro. People need to be conscious. Don't confuse hackers with scammers.

I don't know what will I do if that happens. I mean I am with you if you want to expose scammers and maybe also hackers and criminals but bitcoin being traceable as a whole will be the worst for me since I will be having second thoughts on using it. Since to be honest you can follow transactions of your friends just by knowing its address but if you know who can recieve it and things like that, that is a different thing.

The thing is even if it becomes totally traceable to the exact location of the persons involved in the transaction, I don't think it would yield any positive result because the crypto transactions are totally irreversible and knowing about the transactions won't help to recover.

Fiat currency is traceable. Still, scammers and other bad guys are doing their business quite easily using fiat currency without getting traced. Scammers along with other legitimate crypto users will find another way of doing business in this domain. There is no way we can block them.

its a common misconception that bitcoin and other pseudo-anonymous crypto is untraceable
you are right , you have much better chances to go unnoticed stealing cash , bitcoin has been long ago traced by the likes of Chainalysis , Elliptic or Cipher trace
they are working with the authorities and ISP and VPN must give them info they request , do not be fooled by the "totally anonymous " and no logs claims by the way
scammer will always be present , it is the humans nature - where there is money there will be people who want to take them from you
sometimes I am amazed by the amount of attention this aspect of the cryptocurrencies is getting , as if there is nothing else to be discussing about it
fiat related crimes happen million times more often , yet every single incident with bitcoin is somehow news worthy

The truth is that Bitcoin is a trackable cryptocurrency and its blockchain can be analyzed, however, what some scammers do in which little by little they are finding ways to filter accounts and disperse the illicit and thus even somehow lose traces, but Computer experts are able to detect all these movements, I think you will always be exposed to hackers, it is best to take good care of private passwords and not manage large funds in the Exchanges, because they are the most vulnerable.

The further technology develops, the less privacy becomes for both a decent user and a cheater. 
Not so long ago, the VPN was anonymous.
Not anymore today.
Not so long ago, the TOR network was anonymous.
Not anymore.
There are strong players on the Internet, they can do anything.
The usual users are left - they can keep their anonymity less and less. We need to be more and more careful when we use the network.

And this process is developing.

We lose our anonymity and security.
Others are gaining unlimited power.

Why is this happening?
What's wrong with the basics of modern security systems?

Its already traceable yet every transaction made is visible on public.The difference here is that no one ever knows on whose the owner on such address
and those things will only be identified if those scammers tend to cash out those hacked coins into a certain exchange.So most probably the scenario here
is that those smart thieves will surely scramble or mixed up those coins for it hard to be traced and this is where mixers and other service do comes in.

That is true, there are many people thought that the cryptocurrency is not traceable but they are all wrong because it is really traceable. There are now many scammers that been arrested because they are traced by the government. Recently there is a group of scammers who steal more than a million dollars and they been arrested in my country. It is really good that the government are doing a great job to arrest the scammers all over the world. But there are scammers that are really smart that the government are having trouble to trace them.

Actually almost all of your transaction is traceable in bitcoin. The only thing that they cannot do is to retrieve their lost coin if someone scam them using beautiful words. That is the only problem if the currency that you have is decentralized. No government is involved and you cannot complain if something happens to your money whether it is stolen or sent to the wrong address.

Sad truth, but, there are countries who are focusing on cyber crime too but there are countries who has very less succeed win case with cyber crime such as Japan, so, be careful if the founder came from Japan and he's not Japanese, as I know someone who has been a founder of crypto exchange but he run away and he's from Japan, and although there are lots of police report already, he knows they can't sue him, he's really very clever.

if it is already traceable I think it is not bitcoin at all, the main feature of bitcoin is you can transact anonymously, so if it will happen , many scammers will be afraid and they can be lessen, but the traders and users of bitcoin will be lessen too, this is my few cent, I dont have any problem if it will be traceable  but it could be bad for some other people.

Although, bitcoin transactions can not be reversed or refunded back. But, bitcoin transactions can be tracked or traced. You can even traced the address you sent bitcoin. Still, scam scheme never ceased, Scam schemes ranging from clicking of fake links sent to you through emails to ghost or fake exchanges. The best to do is to know the ways they are scamming so that we would not be their victims. One of the things that could reduce scam is KYC but all these can only reduce it but can not end it.

Actually bitcoin is already traceable and the simplest thing you need to know is who the holder of the address and if revealed you can see where they are sending their bitcoin into, even most of popular exchange address nowadays have a label name which make it even simpler. There are also tools to trace what address connected to each other so yeah it's traceable and transparent even surpass banking transaction. The fact that it needs to know the ID of address holder even before we can trace I think is enough to not harm people's privacy.

That's right. If someone steals bitcoin, it will be sent to at least some mixer.And from there it will easily go to the exchange.

Yes that is quite correct but still, we could not trace the actual identity of the scammers because what we could just trace is the transactions that they made. Basically they will not submit a true KYC knowing that they aim to scam people out. So, it will be a big problem for us so we need bitcoin to become a traceable currency and at the same time, deep inside of us don't want it either. Because one thing we are here now is because of the characteristics bitcoin has, and being anonymous fascinated us.

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Anonymity of any user on the Internet is a myth, and the further the Internet becomes more transparent, but only for specially trained people.
Anonymity in cryptov currencies is, but also has its own price, has its own technology of access to information.

If you own 500 bitcoins, nobody will be interested in you, too small, if you have 10 000 - you are on the hook, no matter what you want.
And what's between those limits - I don't know, anything can be found if they really want it.

The TOR network - has lost its anonymity, this year tracking technologies appeared (to be more exact, this year they wrote about it, and when this technology appeared - I do not know).

VPN - became transparent for owners of certain technologies, this was recently reported in the press, moreover, with the loss of anonymity there was a loss of traffic privacy.

Anonymity is a myth that has its price.

mixers have the purpose of preserving the privacy of individual. the reason why they are being closely monitored by authorities. so once those scammers made their transactions safe via this mixer, they can easily transfer it to addresses where they can convert it to fiat currency. of course, they will not withdraw large amounts of money.
btc txs are already traceable but we still dont know the name attached to it, only the addresses involved.

Fiat is traceable, are all scams in fiat traced or there are zero scam/fraud with fiat? My friend scammers do proper work before committing a scam. Right now nobody can trace who owns a specific  address but if that become possible then scammers will move to some new strategy.

I am agree with you pal. So all we have to di is to be careful and smart thinker. We halve to think land check twice or even trice if we sent our money into the right account. Because here in crypto world you cannot retrieve your money from the wrong transaction so be careful and reread the details before sending your btc.

tracking will still end in a deadlock because the government will not be able to do anything if the mixing flow remains unconnected with fiat transactions, scammers can also hold it for a long time to ensure a very clean washing, the government has no regulations to accuse someone with using dozens of intricately connected addresses as criminal evidence.

There is always a ways, like in fiat almost all the transactions are traceable but the hackers still find a ways on how they can outdo the traceable transactions.

Therefore there is no 100% guarantee that there will be no hackers in crypto once the transactions will become traceable. What I can say is that, it can lower the hacking rate but it will not eliminate the hackers.

Because of the generation or era now which is technology is getting bigger and getting more advanced also the hackers have more power over the cyber world and yes even a decentralized and secured bitcoin cant be safe to hackers but also hackers cant fully grasp the bitcoin or fully penetrate it and in fact internet world or cyber world is not a safe place at first place. So if bitcoin will become tracesble the hackers will have more power and victims will become higher and also governments will overtake the bitcoin which is why we trust bitcoin because it is not traceable and don't have tax, but if this case happens then maybe, lots will lose trust and interest in bitcoin.

well tracing bitcoin transaction to a real identity is possible as you know there are centralized exchange platforms, but the real problem is that most people that use bitcoin for dirty things most time do that on decentralized platforms. In order to make bitcoin to be totally traceable then platforms holding bitcoin transactions will be completely centralized. However, this does mean scammers may reduce and also the general acceptance will increase but there are still many challenges facing crypto aside traceability that make people not accept it. One of it is the issue of volatility.

You can actually complain to the authorities if your bitcoin is stolen from you, but in many countries many do not even know what is bitcoin and how valuable it is, second most police departments do not have the tools to deal with crimes over the Internet that can be difficult to track, third the people that steal cryptocurrencies probably have experience trying to hide their tracks so it will be difficult to identify them, fourth and even if you can follow how those coins move most likely they will use a bitcoin mixer and you will lose their track.

And finally those hackers can be everywhere around the world, so if you only lost a small amount the authorities may not even investigate the case as it is not worth the effort for them.

Of course there will always be hackers around ,hope bitcoin transactions is traceable anyway,would be good to nail those guys

If Bitcoin, and in general crypto, is tracked, there will be much fewer frauds, and fraudsters will be searched and punished. At this point, that's very much lacking. 

Bitcoin is traceable, just that many times you really don't know how to defend a stolen bitcoin that it's yours. Sometimes, a stolen bitcoin is made to untraceable by using some level of encryption like a mixer. If a scammer deposits a stolen bitcoin in a centralized exchange, and this has been resorted and been monitored, the exchange management can freeze such account.

Have you forget that; fiats can be traceable? If yes, why are many scammers still found their self scamming with the sane fiats which can be traceable to them. Also, remember the; Bitcoin is traceable because its was built on the Blockchain which is the most transparent process these days. Scammers are not worried or worry over their identities if found. What happened most to these scammers is that; they used mixers....

Just because bitcoin is hard to be traced more people prefer to use bitcoin. Even when bitcoin is used for right things government consider it a crime. This is the major reason why the traceable feature is much welcomed by cryptocurrency users. Same time this feature is taken as an advantage by the scammers and hackers to trap common people in a much simple way. Fraudulent activities with cryptocurrencies have decreased compared to the past as people have known its importance as a currency and investment.

Lol, i guess you really need ti go back and consider the whole technology behind bitcoin and its features as well. Bitcoin was created for the sake of financial privacy and so this assumption can't never happen hence not necessary to discuss it further or even consider the odds.

Most of the time the scammers that you see which are prosecuted are those that have stolen millions of dollars, if a scammer steals an amount of money that is significant to you but that is really small then most likely nothing is going to happen.

Prosecuting someone has a cost and most authorities do not have the resources to dedicate to a case like that and the few that do will most likely do nothing if the loss you suffered was small, after all if you were a member of a security agency and you had limited time which case would you try to solve, a high profile case in which millions are involved or a case with a only a few hundreds of dollars?

I think this is a great idea so we can lessen the numerous counts of illegal doing herr in Bitcoin of course give some fear for those people who will come up to the idea of hacking. I think this is one of the reason why Bitcoin is still unacceptable by most of the people since the fear of losing all of your assets are present without any assurance to have it back and think this idea will showcase how well Bitcoin could be if accepted.

I hope that some will have the ability to trace especially our government as Bitcoin is widely using by terrorist for illegal activities and not only them but a lot of founders using crypto to scam people. Hope that the government will really have the chance to sue and punished those scammers too apart from those terrorist so that many investors will attract and gain trust again to crypto.

I don't think that will ever happen, as Bitcoin is a decentralized network, so you can't trace the scammers. If it becomes possible, I think Satoshi Nakamoto needs to come back! Everyone saying Blockchain can track the transaction records but I don't know how you get that man's address, identity through the transaction! No way at all. If every exchange asks KYC for withdrawal money then maybe scammers will not fool us anymore.

It could probably possible, but one of the things we could forget is the essence and the sole purpose why Satoshi develop the kind of system we have right now which I highly adore the most. This is the essence of being personally responsible, in blockchain and bitcoin, no other third parties could tell us what to do, or handle our money, but we have all the capabilities to do everything we want, which is in fact a good practice to become independent. Tracking transaction and determining who's responsible for an act even if it is aimed to track scammers will just wipe this freedom we have in cryptocurrency space.

Of course you can! The more transactions on a single wallet, the easier it is to track scammer. Already many of silk road users participating in illegal activities are facing charges or already had been imprisoned. And yes, KYC/AMLP/FATF norms require verification for withdrawals, and already there had been cases where scammers wallets on some big exchanges had been suspended, as the stolen crypto was traced there.

As well, this is one of the reasons why officials in many countries are gradually starting to fight privacy coins.

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Any owner of the bitcoin can be tracked. His IP address is calculated just because he is using the network.  It's network laws, they don't care if you use a bitcoin or just navigate through sites.
Yeah, not everyone can do that.
It's just a matter of price, as far as the person who wants to calculate you needs it.
When you ask for information using the KYC/AMLP/FATF rules, you only do it because it's the easiest way to get information.
But it's not the only way to find a user.

By trace, OP meant, finding the details of owner of any account. From 1 account money was sent into another. Suppose mr x sent money to mr y. Who is mr x? Who is mr y? No one knows. Unless y send funds into centralized exchanges. What if they sent money into btc mixer? What if they trade for p2p?
And no one really care if btc amount is small. We only caught few hackers.

You are lacking a little bit of imagination, it is true that is impossible to just look at the blockchain and put a name and a face behind an address so it is impossible in theory to discover the identity of the person behind that address with just the blockchain.

But investigators are going to try to find every single account that used that address at some point, they can also use very advanced tracking techniques that can help them to monitor your activities and if at any point you made a mistake and you revealed your identity then they can match who you are and the addresses that you use.

I think scammers don't sell the results of their fraud through exchanges that use KYC. Maybe for security reasons, they will move to a different address and then sell it on P2P exchanges like local bitcoin.

Fraudsters are always more advanced and more inventive than their victims.
When discussing the issue of tracking, I would not worry about scammers, they will get out in 10 cases of 11, but I would really worry about tracking large or interesting Bitcoin owners, decent people.
 Yesterday, VPN and TOR were in the arsenal of our anonymity tools. But at the end of last year, it became known (this does not mean “appeared” as a phenomenon) that there are technologies not only for tracking users of these technologies, it’s half the trouble, but there is the possibility of “listening” and phishing attacks on these users.
The truth is that a fraudster almost always provides for such an option, and we do not always. We always hope for technology, and what happens inside these technologies - we don’t know or we don’t know everything.

As well they can use mixers + crypto-to-crypto exchanges (which do not require KYC).

But anyway, BTC is traceable. The more transactions on the wallet, the easier it is to track its owner. People using BTC for criminal activities on the Silkroad website learnt that in a harsh way.

Scammers will definitely find their place behind the jail if ever bitcoin becomes a traceable currency. On the other hand, we cannot simply allow that to happen because most of the investors here wants to be anonymous with their transaction considering the fact that they are holding large amount of money which can trigger some people to hunt them down and rob them. Being a non-traceable currency offers them safety too but at the same time, scammers can freely roam around and steal other people's money.

Of course, if someone sends Bitcoin from one wallet to another and these funds remain motionless, then in the absence of other transactions, no one will establish the owners of these wallets. Also, if someone steals the cryptocurrency and transfers it to a new wallet and it remains without movement, the thief can not be installed. However, cryptocurrency is not stolen so that it is without movement. Most often, thieves and scammers lack patience and they make mistakes. Now states are joining together to fight crimes related to cryptocurrency. This is quite natural.

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I don't know who's joining forces with whom, but I do know that the overall statistics on cybercrime are growing from year to year. There's also an increase in the theft of cryptology in dollar terms.
Success in the fight against cybercriminals, the current security system shows mainly when a robbery has already happened and you need to release updates to close the holes.
And how much data has flowed through these holes, they don't want to talk.

I know that crooks improve their skills day and night.
Also, I know there's a lot of holes that aren't told to us, that are never told.
I also know the facts that the software and the devices that we use are increasingly stealing our data, these capabilities are being built right into the factory.
So it was recently discovered (and we were told!) that all Samsung smartphones and tablets are sending our information somewhere in China.
And now the question to people who tremble with their wallets, and to hardware wallets:
- do you have complete confidence in the devices you plug your hardware wallets into?
- do you use Samsung products?

Does one Samsung work for the Chinese government?
Is the Chinese government the only one who does it?
Who knows, is silent.

And I know that we are all in great danger, year after year - more and more can not trust any manufacturer.

I'll assume that what you mean by "traceable" in fact means that bitcoin becomes somehow de-anonymized. Because as others have said, bitcoin is already traceable, it's just that linking addresses to actual people is the hard part.

This won't ever be the case given the fact that the entire network is essentially based off the premise of a pseudoanonymous system under which everyone can create and use as many addresses as they want without having to be subject to verification. For this to happen, then there needs to be a centralized entity that is doing the verification process - which we know cannot happen.

But let's suppose it does. Even then, scammers will remain scammers. Just look at the sheer amount of paypal scammers, and this kind of debunks the myth that somehow a verified payment system gives you 100% security.

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Anonymity on a network means information about your IP, MAC address, IMEI of the device.
That's all or part of it needs to know in order to track you.
You go online, you do bitcoin transactions, it's actually all your device does. And that's what they're tracking.

Next, if your identity needs to be tied to the device, it's very easy to do - watching remotely the activity of the device itself, what you do on it, where you go online, what phone numbers, messengers are yours, what you write on social networks and what they write about you and so on.
All this is done not by hand, but programmatically, providing the attacker your full social profile, photos, your voice, biometric data, which you willingly give to your device, all correspondence, contacts, SMS, passwords and logins, encryption keys.
And if you need to make sure that you are behind the device, then there is hidden activity of the camera and microphone of the device.
The information is checked in the database of your registration documents, driver's license, passport.

Step by step, through your device (IP, MAC, IMEI) automatic surveillance, those who need it, will know you more than you know about yourself.

Where's the anonymity?

And crooks aren't fools. They never use the same device for all their needs.

Are you ready to change your devices, say, every week?

Indeed. Illegal activities like scams and fraud in the world of cryptocurrencies will be reduced if it will be traceable because scammers will be starting to be afraid to trick other people if there is now a chance for them to go to jail. Most of us will not be afraid in investing with our money if scammers will get arrested that easily.

Fraudsters will always be where there's a herd of relaxed sheep. Fraudsters as a global phenomenon do not care if you catch someone or not. They're not afraid of prison because we think about it.
The criminal world has long understood that cyber-fraud is the fastest and safest way to make money. If they catch one cheater, the other learns from his mistakes.
They can't be frightened by the lack of anonymity.
They already, in fact, do not believe anyone, and above all, those who offer security.
They were born with the knowledge that any door with a lock on it can be opened.

Keep your keys and passwords safe.
And in today's trend - never use keys or passwords, because all devices - work not only for you, but also for someone else.

Now it is not clear who are crooks, those who are criminals by profession, or those who should be on our side?

I think the power and the criminals are on the same side now, against us.

1. Confirming news:
US authorities have been distributing a subsidized smartphone with a built-in virus

Millions of poor Americans under the US FCC Lifeline Assistance Program have received a subsidized smartphone. But the device was a surprise - its firmware has a built-in virus. This software cannot be removed because it does not have root access.

The Unimax UMX U686CL smartphone was provided as part of the Mobile Accessibility Program.


2. And the crimes are also from those we trust:
- Microsoft has been listening to and processing Skype and Cortana users' voices for years without any security measures. The Guardian was told about this by a former contractor who spent two years processing user voices using a personal laptop at his home in Beijing. He received his login and password from Microsoft via email in unencrypted form, with a very simple login and one password for everyone.

Earlier, I wrote that spyware was found on all Samsung smartphones and tablets.

One of the users of the social news site Reddit pointed to the problem. These are the Device Care features that are indeed present on the Korean manufacturer's mobile devices.

Samsung itself does not deny that the Device Care module dedicated to the device storage is used on Qihoo 360. However, the manufacturer does not explain why the software regularly communicates with Chinese servers. Qihoo 360 has previously been involved in several privacy and privacy scandals, including hidden data collection.

The source warned that giving such a questionable company access to all the data on the device is at least risky. He explained:

“The smartphone storage scanner has full access to all your personal data as it is part of the system. In doing so, under Chinese law, it must send this information to the government upon request. ”

It is impossible to happen as of now, since bitcoins is made for us users to make transactions anonymously, if it will be happen many people will leave bitcoin  ,but this is just my cent right? But many will stay even though it could be traceable now since it is shown to be a good investment for everyone and it is good for long term investment too.

You guys both make a good point but you're missing something because there's actually different between decentralized and anonymous and the last time i checked bitcoin is not privacy coin so we cant totally say it transaction are Anonymous which is the reason why some people make use of wallet which integrated CoinJoin and bitcoin tumbler site.
But, if all crypto to fiat exchange site integrated KYC crypto scammers can be possibly nab.

Dont be deceived by the decentralized in nature of bitcoin because Bitcoin transaction are still traceable since all transaction are ever saved on blockchain ledger and if bitcoin tx are not traceable those online previous crypto scammer who're once captured wont be and there will be no need for the use of bitcoin tumbling site.

Bitcoin transaction is traceable either it confirmed or not and the main problem people avoid to make transaction with bitcoin is if they mistakenly send to anther wallet or hacked then how to recover it or who will be responsible for it.
Its solution is also in pipe line but if government legalize the crypto and contract with different countries platforms that in case of hacking of losing money will co operate with officials.More innovations on its way and the scared investors will find the solution soon.

It's also a misconception that Bitcoin is completely and easily traceable - when you know what you are doing it's actually quite hard and expensive to trace transactions with existing tools, which is why scammers, hackers and other criminals walk free - its just not worth the effort, unless the crime is truly large. It's also easier to hide smaller amounts of coins than larger amounts, so that's another reason why scammers are getting away with stealing bitcoins.

If this is gonna happen, I think that is the best way to know who the scammers are by knowing their every transaction. I think also if we upgrade some of the things here in the forum or in every exchange like we should have better KYC in which you need some personal ID that only admin can see so they can see if you are scamming other people. If you lose your money because of them that is their fault and can report them. I am just thinking and giving my own idea maybe there are also disadvantages to that but if we continue thinking we can come up to a better way to trace every scammer.

The owners of Bitcoin are the most advanced, progressive and brave people.
Not knowing anything for sure, only "maybe" we buy something we do not fully understand.
You have illusions that we create for ourselves. If you do it for fun, it's exciting, it can be like a game for adults.
If you invest a lot of money in Bitcoin, your money, use this technology to store your capital - that's not clear.
Money loves a solid foundation.
Bitcoin has, so far, a very raw, unambiguously undefined foundation for anyone. Although it is a modern tool for financial freedom, it is not complete...

Cryptocurrency fraud has always been, is and will be. The global Internet is very convenient for all sorts of scammers. We cannot see them and do not know where they are, and cryptocurrency is very susceptible to various abuses with trust. In addition, the efforts of many state law enforcement agencies are necessary here, and this is a complex bureaucratic system that works very slowly and while fraudsters feel very comfortable. It will take a lot of time to clearly establish an international struggle against this evil.

If and only if the cryptocurrencies transactions will be traceable in the future, I think the number of the population if the scammer will be leasen because they will be afraid on what punishment awaits for them if they will still imvolve in scams in the future. And I think those scammer who will be left are those who are too smart and intelligent to think always an idea for a great escape.

there was news a few months ago that a massive dark web child porn users were tracked using bitcoin transactions and the Authorities made arrests in different parts of the world after they tracked
the people who used bitcoin to transact to the website. bitcoin has been traceable all these years as long as you know where to look or how to do it but I'd like them(criminals) to keep thinking that
bitcoin is untraceable and hope to make a mistake just like the paedophiles did.

From the very begininig Bitcoin was misused because of anonimity, that is not the secret, and not only for scams but also for much more serious crimes like child pornography, drugs, illegal weapons, money laundering and similar.
Comparing to years ago Bitcoin has lost a great deal of anonimity and transactions and Bitcoin wallets are much more traceable. That is maybe bad news for honest Bitcoin users but it's good for law enforcement agencies that will much easier trace the criminals. To my opinion loss of anonimity has also a good component.

Even right now Bitcoin can be traced and it has been done a lot of times. I have even seen someone that traced his scammer Bitcoin to Binance, though I don’t know if he later got his money back or whatever happened because I didn’t follow up with his story. You can trace a coin but the thing is that you won’t know the identity of the person, I guess only if it lands on an exchange.

Crypto scammers has been caught a lot of times. That’s why a lot of them are now making use of crypto mixers so that they can’t be traced, just like the Binance hackers. Scammers are stubborn, even if Bitcoin becomes traceable they will still trying their luck lol.

you can track the transactions already on blockchain. You can see from which wallet to which wallet. The amount of the transaction. Date... The only thing is the wallet addreses. It is very hard to find whose wallet it is. If the owner didn't identify or announce his address in somewhere or some platform...

Exactly. If you want to stay anonymous. It is not very hard. You have to avoid using your own wallet when you transfer to exchange platforms or other people. And you should avoid from making KYC very often.

Bitcoin can be traced but the questions is "What is the purpose of tracing them if theres no case charged " like for example if one scammer is from country 1 and the victim is in country 2, and they finally traced the location and name of that person, will you really push to file a case? the expenses of filing a case might be bigger than the amount scammed thats why tracing them is not useful, just be very careful not to trust anybody online especially if involves money.