Bitcoin Forum

Now that it's possible to send instant transactions at a fraction of the cost using Bitcoin's Lightning Network, I'm starting to wonder whenever we'll be able to see vending machines accepting Bitcoin someday?

For years, we've been accustomed to vending machines which accept physical cash above all else. A Bitcoin vending machine that would use the Lightning Network would turn out to be quite revolutionary for many businesses in the mainstream world. It'll be even better than paying with physical cash. This would also benefit the Lightning Network in terms of adoption worldwide. I'm sure that someone is already working on this in order to make our lives easier than ever.

What are your thoughts? Is the Lightning Network ready to be used on vending machines, or is it too early to tell? ??

It would be great to see such machines but I doubt any company will start manufacturing them anytime soon because of the small number of customers using bitcoin. Besides, the lightning network is still under development (testing stages) and using it requires some technical knowledge.

You are correct, I saw some working prototype of such machine on Twitter last year, it was selling candies with LN payments. However, before we'll have widespread vending machines, we'll more likely to get LN Bitcoin ATM's. Currently Bitcoin vending machine wouldn't be profitable, since there's so little people who could pay with Bitcoin, and not everyone who owns Bitcoin wants to spend it. But buying/selling Bitcoin for cash is much more common, and Bitcoin ATM's are already popular, so adding LN to them would greatly help them by reducing fees, improving speed and allowing to operate with smaller amounts.

Of course it's possible because there's already a vending machine that readily accepts BTC.

https://i.ibb.co/12D6vKW/Screen-Shot-2019-12-28-at-7-26-31-AM.png (https://ibb.co/nkHCgfJ)

https://twitter.com/EthanZ/status/758485225588531200

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We already have a companies that solely focuses on bitcoin vending machine  Upstate Networks Incorporated (https://www.upstatenetworks.com/). Maybe with some few tweaks, we will see "Lightning Network" being implemented as well.

Aeguana (https://www.aeguana.com/vending) - a start up company has already make a bitcoin vending machine and so as regular fiat.

And then we also have Liberty Vending, LLC (https://www.linkedin.com/company/liberty-vending-llc). So this could be a trend in the next coming years.

Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fb6Xww2P7c - Coke vending machine that accepts Bitcoin payments through Lightning Network

I think it is yet ready to be used in vending machine.  Bitcoin atm had been around for sometime now, so I think a vending machine connected online for price adjustment is very possible.


I wonder only a few are into creating a vending machine that accepts Bitcoin.

Agreed, it requires good technical knowledge as well as the capital funding. Already there were more Bitcoin ATM around the globe for usage, but as it didn't yield expected revenue more ATMs were taken back by the company itself. Now with this new vending machine we'll get faster access, but the limited number of users will not benefit the company. Maybe as a Service one can start expecting good profit in the future as more and more people are getting aware of cryptocurrencies.

There are some vending machines operating wordwise over the years and still, more do come because of some vending machines manufacturing companies working under that you can get more information about regarding that in the below link.

Source: https://www.xceltrip.com/blog/vending-machines-that-accept-bitcoin

That can be happening soon IF (and this is the biggest IF) vendors can sense that there is really a good and viable demand from their prospective customers about it. In fact, we will not have any big problem on the side of the merchants when talking about adoption if there is really a big market for anything. The problem is that even if vendors are gonna provide the Bitcoin option if there will never be an adequate sales or revenues resulting from such a choice the whole thing will eventually be pulled down. In other words, this is the demand side and not on the supply side or the necessary infrastructure because it is the nature of any business to look for ways and means to provide something if they can be sure there is money to be made in there. It would be good if one day vendors everywhere can be providing this Bitcoin option because this is some sort of advertising for cryptocurrency.

Too early. The only thing I know so far is the ATM machine where you can get withdraw/deposit Bitcoin,the coin slot machine where you insert coin to convert it into Bitcoin, and some mini vending machines. With lightning network still under development, there's just a huge chance people the bigger company would make something like a vending machine for Bitcoin. What I want to happen to lightning network is to be use by stores, especially fast food restaurant and markets.

It is already there.

I heard people talking in a food court the other week about vending machines and they talked about digital currencies. They did not specifically talked about Bitcoin but the guy said that they are working on these "digital currencies", it might be mobile wallets though. I think it will be implemented more in the future side to side with other online wallets.

I think this might just be true, most likely the one who will first apply this is the country of Japan. Not only in Japan there are many
vending machines, but Japan is also a country that has legalized cryptocurrency. Especially Japan in developed countries that can
make vending machines accept payments using bitcoin. It's really good if it's true that this can be realized soon, indeed it is better
to use the lightning network so that transactions can be faster.

It would be a great idea to have vending machines accept bitcoin....if this was 1996.  But in 2019?  I couldn't even tell you where the nearest vending machine is.  Probably at my local hospital or something, but you don't see them all over the place like you used to.  So I think even if this were ever to become an option it wouldn't have a major impact on anyone's lives--certainly not mine.

I do realize that vending machines are still very popular in other countries, and I think Japan is one of those if I'm not mistaken.  But where I live they're pretty much a dying breed and have been for years.  I don't see too many of them around anymore.  Plus I think people would still much rather use their debit card or some physical coins to pay for a snack or a drink out of a machine because that's what they're used to.  I sure as hell don't want to pay a network fee when I could use cash and not have to worry about the opportunity cost of spending bitcoin, the confirmation time, and whatever else.

it would be great if even buying tissue papers and condoms can be bought using Bitcoin thru Vending machines ,also Sodas and bottled water because those are very in demand and will bring new era for crypto currency progression ..but just like what pictures send above there are already companies having this and that Soya machine is really cool.hoping that this will scattered the whole world and also seeing this many more around my place.

It might be possible that next year, i will be visiting the land of vending machines, which also happens to be the first country to adopt Bitcoin. Then i will pay attention and check if some actually take bitcoin. However, i see an easier option. You can, say, use the card for mass transit with the vending machines, so it would make sense to have a machine that takes bitcoin and use that to add money to this card, which expresses amounts in fiat, so that particular machine would also be exchanging (pay processing), not unlike an ATM. They do have those for fiat, of course. It would take only a slight modification to add Bitcoin.

Used in this fashion you probably don't even need LN. You can simply send funds to it, and check again tomorrow, since you don't have to deplete your transit card to add more money to it, just do it in advance.

There are other countries that use similar transit cards for subway/bus and the cards can be used at convenience stores etc, and they even give you some credit (can go negative up to a limit) which is even more reason they don't need the transaction to be instant.

So you never even needed instant payments to begin using Bitcoin in vending machines in the first place, if the machine takes any other form of electronic money already.

If you want to design vending machines around LN, to use Bitcoin directly with them, that's fine. As the company handling the machine, is in their interest to keep their LN node(s) operating and well "fed". But i think they will wait until LN gets "finished", or at least in a very stable state, with the popular wallets supporting it.

true.

the use case of this bitcoin vending machine itself is not something that people needed, the machine created just for a sensation. a new way to pay snacks in an automated machine with bitcoin , that is cool but not really should be a priority in term of building bitcoin ecosystem, it could work to spread bitcoin awareness but not really good for the business itself.

despite i am living in a cahsless society , i also prefer to use coins for such payment -situational factors-.

if you interesting, have more free times and "love programing" you can try your own bitcoin vending machine with ardruino, with "Koyn Arduino Library"
this the link

https://medium.com/elkrem/build-machines-that-accept-bitcoins-with-arduino-3e3099696186

I’ve never thought of this before, but it’s not a bad idea. Of course the fees for small transactions would need to be much lower. I assume that is why you reference the lightning network. I don’t know much about it but are you implying that the fees would be small?

It could be, but far more time would take to reach that level of adoption on such low-scale. To reach that, adoption should first take place on SMEs (Small-Medium Enterprises) before even thinking of vendos accepting Bitcoin. Also, if fiat could be replaced by Bitcoin or some other, much taxable cryptocurrency for governments to use, then having vending machines accept cryptocurrencies wouldn't be that hard to implement. Unlike current cryptocurrencies that anyone could create a wallet anonymously, a reason that the Government isn't looking on current crypto as plausible.

This.

In my country, digital cash is pretty much everywhere, so LN is not that revolutionary and the competition is way too difficult. I don't think it solves a huge problem either.

I'd rather see lots of companies use Bitcoin to pay for their workers instead of trying to revive a dying business.

I am always a fan of lightning network, this will solve the problem of high fees in bitcoin and it's nice that there are people already working on it, this will eliminate the hindrance on why people does not adopt bitcoin for daily transactions.

The purpose of bitcoin then will be serve, it will be fast and cheap with LN.

yes, its pretty good idea. but you are right, unfortinatelly, that companies will start manufacturing them. :(

Vending machines that use Bitcoin is a great idea, it helps storing money safer and brings a convenient way for buyers to purchase. However, many countries like VietNam don't accept cryptocurrency  as a payment method so people here have to wait until Bitcoin is a legal payment method.

How does pricing work? If prices in BTC, does it change everyday? Every hour?

Yes i think they will update the price every hour because the price of bitcoin is always fluctuating and that update will be very difficult for vending machines. It is better for them to use a stablecoin so that things are always stable like with cash. I don't really like the fact that bitcoin will be used to make payments at vending machines

People are smart to create vending machines that are paid for with bitcoin. This is a brilliant success of the 4.0 technology era. A Brazilian computer programmer builds a Coca-cola vending machine that is paid for in Bitcoin (BTC) through the Lightning Network.
Vending machines can also identify users' needs, Reis used the Lightning Network to make Bitcoin transactions faster and cheaper.

What using for from vending machines where we know bitcoin and altcoin price is fluctuating where some time with higher and lower price, maybe although higher technology machine can't prediction about how bitcoin price later will higher or not because bitcoin keep stable without can't be prediction by any one else.

Perhaps it will be based on the current price on your transaction? Similar to how we purchase on exchanges, so don't make things complicated on your end.

Definitely, there is a possibility that those vending machines are going to accept bitcoin thru lightning network, after all this is why we have LN on the first place, side-chain so that transactions can be processed quickly. LN has been tested in EU already so I will not be surprised that vending machine companies will be one done targeted crypto niche.

Seriously and franklyspeaking having a vending machine that accepts bitcoin as payment will be very cool and even go the miles of letting more people know about bitcoin. But i guess the lightning network system is not ready for such development. I would prefer if they get into online payment platform first since that is commonly used in this era for so many puurchases

Yes, the Lightning network is ready to do this with Bitcoin but the important thing is that the demand is not too much. I've seen quite a few vending machines use one of their e-wallet apps and it works pretty quickly, which has taken the convenience to a whole new level. So what does it mean to pay with bitcoin while it makes no difference? Besides, Bitcoin is a highly volatile asset class. Imagine, you want to buy 10 coffe glasses and it is worth about $ 23, and suddenly the price of bitcoin drops by a few percentage points, you will not have enough money to pay for 10 cups of coffe. so I think this idea will be hard to come up with.

well its really good idea to have something like that
but to have a bitcoin as only payment method for vending machine is still not possible
maybe it will be possible in the future if Bitcoin goes mainstream or get more adoption

I am thinking more about faster shipping than now, if bitcoin delivery can be faster then I think the application of the machine you said could be realized. the problem is if a bitcoin transaction still takes a long time, then the expected use of the machine will be difficult to carry out and maybe this time it can't be achieved but someday maybe it can be achieved because this is one interesting idea

That's why we have segwit wallet address now for bitcoin, it is much efficient and cheap, so for those who think why we want to transact using segwit wallet then this is the reason. Going back to the topic we have, vending machines in bitcoin could possibly be one of the leading factor why we could achieve market adoption of bitcoin in some areas where they totally don't have any knowledge about it. Imagine if we are putting these machines and don't really have idea what it is even the symbol of bitcoin on it. So, when people comes with the knowledge of bitcoin and used it, they might be curious and be fascinated about how our system works.

As cryptocurrency and bitcoin become more popular in each country, manufacturers will become also interest in making atm machines that provide crypto specially with bitcoin. That will happen if the development under lightning networs will be done successfully. Let us see how vast that crypto will arrive soon.

It might work actually. But I think the companies who creates such those technologies will need some in depth research on how bitcoin really works and how many of their possible customers will use a bitcoin as a part of their transaction. It is possible to implement but it may take a hard time for those manufacturer.

This is somehow like an atm or something that you can pay with bitcoin and you can get some drinks or something. Well, scanning of QR codes are quite rampant now for some stores. So definitely it can happen more for some other uses. Of course it cannot be immediately adopted by many. Transitioning period will really take that long.

If in the future Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are widely accepted and widely used, I believe this idea will be implemented. But it will certainly take a long time for everyone to see it, I think it will take at least 10 years before we can see vending machines that accept payments in bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. And I think that the price of Bitcoin or altcoin must be truly stable before they can accept it in payment

Vending machines is already accepting bitcoin some part of the country's but still there are so issues with making payments though bitcoin if they are adopting the lighting network it maybe helps the quick payment process without any payments issues.

Lightning network are still in it's early stage and it needs consensus among the bitcoin community  to use it for transactions rather than using bitcoin blockchain.
And using a Lightning network could also make bitcoin centralized to some extent. Using multiple Lightning network would create different type of network.

That's definitely possible. We are innovating so it can happen. But we'll probably see that with developed countries first before other country adopts it. But it's too early for that kind of technological adoption since we're still lacking in mass adoption. And it's only possible if there's a lot of people that will want and ask for it.

The addition of bitcoin as a method of payment on a vending machine  will not actually any problems so far the people using it have not with bitcoin bèing an alternative method of payment. And with the use of lightning network, transactions made will be a bit faster. Also, considering the rate at which the crypto ecosystem is growing,  using bitcoin to pay in vending machines will not be a problem...

Well I tried to search for numbers, but as of right now, we don't have accurate data to begin with. I was more into looking like Bitcoin ATM numbers like https://coinatmradar.com/. But it's possible that Japan right now have bitcoin accepting machines through LN as we all know that have adopted bitcoin since 2017. Maybe we. can see a revival of vending machines around the globe if they realised that it is also profitable.

Bitcoin vending machines have been around for 4-5 years.
and now there is an easier version, we can withdraw cash money at an ATM machine without having to have bitcoin but altcoin can also (in real time price conversion)

If the speed of the transaction would allow you to get the vending machine item at a time of a 1 second, where the network would somehow not become laggy.
Yeah it would be awesome for it to exist.

But as everything, network has problems when the network gets messy, laggy, routes damaged.
Therefore when the traffic get's throttled away it will be hard for the vending machine to keep up the item release.

Or it will have to tell the user to wait for a confirmation ::)

This would be awesome, imagine If major corporation merchants and vendors decided to allow the implementation of  cryptocurrencies as an viable payment option. Bitcoin would most likely be the first, then maybe Ethereum being a future second choice. You walk up to a beverage or snack machine, perhaps scan your phone or use some kind of near field communication option on your phone, and bam, instant snacks!
  In fact, you could probably add a scanner to read paper wallet public keys, and create some interface on screen to make it simpler. Your a genius bro, this sounds like an awesome idea. Bitcoin ATM's are becoming more popular but a freaking vending machine would be stellar. Get a permit and contract for your local college campus, and bam!
 Just wishful thinking though! Just my two cents  ;)

It’s really possible for the area that have high speed internet connection or provide free internet connection for both the vending machine and the app will be use to scan the account. Everything is possible to do in btc as payment as long as there is applicable apps and internet connection. It will be nice to try it once we have it in our country, but we need first a stable internet connection, which is a problem in my country till now.

Japan has realized and it was expected from them being the tech savvy country it is and the leading in technology, it is a must that Bitcoin world has their capital in Japan lol. Japan might give clash to US in terms of economy for their these many contributions to the crypto world.

Why would people not spend theirs now? I thought deflation was given as the reason why. Bitcoin is more "stable" thesedays, yet the problem still persist...
I think lack of decentralized infrastructures is one of the main reasons why this is so. Many are probably scared to use these payment tools in their lands without government backing. If the decentralized infrastructures are available & easy to use, I don't think most people would not use them.

But it really depends in what kind of items or food is inside of the vending machines to attract the attention of people right? What if they put some prizes first that is promising to boost up the adoption of bitcoin? It is a great marketing idea in the bitcoin space when we are doing things like these. And in addition, they could add up some bitcoin ATM soon, so the people could have bitcoins to use in the vending machines and at the same time, bitcoin adoption could be possible.

Do you buy things from a vending machine often? In my country they aren't popular, the only ones which are quite used are those with cheap coffee. And the machines are very limited in terms of money here. They accept only cash, and only coins or banknotes of small nominal. If they don't even fully accept fiat, why would they accept Bitcoin LN? And if vending machines aren't very popular, I think it does not matter for Bitcoin adoption.

The technology is there. Lightning network has been working well, but we need a start-up or something to start developing those vending machines mecanics. I mean it is not that hard - it is just hardware and software aka metal, componenets and a smart contract. RSK offers smart contracts on Bitcoin if I am not mistaken.

Plot twist:

Bitcoin Vending Machines exist since 2012:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDOcLros-w0

We have not been in lightning network though,  But i agree the transaction fees are more than what I am paying back then. But you guys would would consider if buying in vending machines is more benificial unlike buying in actual cashier the you are wrong, I have noticed in fastfood chains here im my country, people do still prefer buying on counter than on kiosk. So I would say having actual cashier is better than having electronic ones of kiosk.

Because investing is the biggest use case for Bitcoin right now, and people normally don't cash out their investments just to make purchases, they have fiat for that. So many people here say that fiat will soon die and Bitcoin will take over, so isn't it logical that people would try to get rid of their fiat first and should prefer using it as a currency for their daily transactions?

I think it is too early to tell. That maybe a small step for bitcoin's revolution but still it would require getting bitcoin legalized all over the world. Not everyone knows about it yet, some may know the name but not the real use of it so we cannot expect any company or business to collaborate with bitcoin this soon. Maybe in the future, we will not only see vending machines that accepts bitcoin but also every transactions we are making can be paid through bitcoin to promote convenience and less taxes for the people.

i think BTC for big money transfers. it valuable. BTC  is precious. not for use buy a chocolate. vending machines may use DOGE or LTC. but BTC could use for bank transfers or sports team's player's wage/transfer fees. something like big things than little chocolates.

Using bitcoin in both small and big transfers is really good no matter how much fee you pay because of the anonimity, bitcoin provides you anonimity in each transactions. Vending machines must use all popular coins it will just depend on the customer on what they want to use.

The idea is great, would be very convenient especially to the customers who are used to buy a drinks at some vending machine. In addition, it would be more... let's say secured in a sense you'll have to pay the exact amount, and you have nothing to worry about your change (because some vendos have some kind of functioning issues like when you pay for a whole amount, and it won't give change). However, the thing here it ain't going much useful in a community who have a small amount of people which into bitcoin.

but not everyone will agree to the transaction costs are quite large. but there are actually many other positive things when using bitcoin, especially with the anonymity they have. so I think bitcoin transactions have their own advantages and disadvantages

It could be possible especially if we are to adopt changes to bitcoin, we need to lower down the transaction fees of bitcoin network. But in order for this to happen, the bitcoin scientist such as gavin should comback to business and for me, making this possible could compromise the entire system. That is the reason why I think they made it clear that no future changes could happen to bitcoin to remain the trust people have provided to it. One question, are we going to invest to bitcoin if we know its market volume vould be change becauae of internal code update? no. So that's why we entrust the updates to future forks and creation of new cryptocurrency.

I think this is a very good idea and much better than an ATM. You do not have to worry about being robbed since there is no cash in the machine, instead the bitcoins are kept with you on your pc. Less work having to retrieve coins and deposited them into a bank account physically at the bank. This will work well in Japan where they have so many vending machines. You could even start your own currency that is used to pay at these machines and have a project with a purpose. There is untapped potential there. It will also get people interested in adopting crypto themselves. At least them can pay at vending machines so they will not feel they wasting their money on crypto and they will see it works and think its awesome and hopefully never go back to fiat.

I understand. Bitcoin is not widely adopted within the mainstream world yet, so there would be no reason to build a vending machine for it after all. Not to mention, the Lightning Network is still in its early days. One thing that greatly minimizes a business' profits is the price volatility across the market. If Bitcoin was stable in price just like Fiat currencies are, it would've been used more as a currency than a store of value. It's no wonder why most people are hoarding it instead of spending it. Of course, the Lightning Network makes Bitcoin great again with its instant transactions and low fees. If sometime in the future, Bitcoin's Layer-Two solution becomes widely adopted in the mainstream world, then things like "Bitcoin Vending Machines" would be common.

Until then, we'll see more Bitcoin ATMs using the Lightning Network emerge within the mainstream world. It'll be so easy to sell BTCLN to cash because of its low fees and instant speeds. In all ends, regulations will greatly determine the level of success for Bitcoin's Lightning Network on business ventures. I'm sure that many crypto enthusiasts would love to use a "Bitcoin Vending Machine" someday. In my opinion, this will be much better than paying with cash or credit/debit cards because people will be able to achieve a greater level of anonymity. But not everyone uses Bitcoin after all.



Interesting. I wonder how successful this business venture will be within the mainstream world? Since not many people own or use Bitcoin, a "Bitcoin Vending Machine" might not bring a sustainable income for mainstream businesses and companies. Still, it could become a big hit if people begin to use Bitcoin's Lightning Network more thoroughly. We're still too early to tell about Bitcoin's LN success as the Layer-Two solution is in its infancy. I hope that these vending machines will grow by a large scale, competing with traditional vending machines we've been fond of for a very long time. All in all, I'll be keeping a close eye on the development of this exciting business venture. :)

For anything or any technology that involves bitcoin was all good things since we all know that bitcoin was not yet implemented in a lot of countries and surely we all need to keep influencing a lot of people about bitcoin.

With this thing surely it could help to influence people about bitcoin in a lot of countries their are only a small percentage of people that is actually using or having a transactions on bitcoin. And I think it was not yet a big community because as a global currency we need to influence all of the country all over the world, Surely this little things could help a lot , a simple advertisement or ads about bitcoin in a street could make people to wonder about bitcoin and I think through confusing they could easily get influence by it easily just like what happened to me. I just heard this bitcoin and research about it and now I already use it too.