Bitcoin Forum

I sold my Bitcoins through Paypal Friends and Family payment thinking it would be "safe".
I was TOTALLY wrong.
The scammer issued a chargeback claiming it as "unauthorized purchase".
I sent all the chat logs and the screenshot of the Paypal payment from the buyer and the receipt from Paxful including PGP signature, but I doubt if I will ever win.
Feels so sad that this BS has happened in the end of the year.
I'm stuck between either paying the chargeback or closing my bank account and debit card, never using Paypal again.

I am sorry to hear that.

With the experience you had, you should start realize that you don't need to third party to transact anymore. It is never safe to use a centralized products anyway.

It is gonna be hard, but I think you should wait for the proof and explanation you gave to be processed and hopefully you can win and get your money back.

Sorry for your loss.we should avoid PayPal or same kind of payment gateway.I saw many people lost his money in this way. After finished the deal buyer request for refund.Hope you will win.
Let them verify.I think you sent them enough prove.           

" Trust no one " A single quote that saved many lives of people in here. I would never, ever sell my bitcoin in a way like what you did because it is a big BS trusting anyone in here especially when trading It is best if you use some services of escrow or middle men in trading. Another thing is Paypal is obviously backing off from any cryptocurrencies, remember when it pulls out its support on libra? Paypal could have adopted the bitcoin for many years but they didn't. Actually that says a lot.

You are not the first OP, and you won't be the last. Any service such as PayPal which allows chargebacks or otherwise reversible means of payment is favored by scammers because it is trivially easy for them to reverse their payment once you have sent the bitcoin. Furthermore, selling bitcoin is viewed as "exchanging currency" by PayPal, which is against their Acceptable Usage Policy. As such, they are unlikely to offer much support at all to anyone who is scammed while selling bitcoin on their platform. You should only use PayPal to trade with someone you personally trust or who has a high amount of verified positive trust.

There is a stickied thread on the Marketplace forum explaining this: Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=14632.0)

This kind of scam had been happening all over the internet, you shouldn't be doing it unless you can trust the user who uses the paypal. If you had made the transaction to someone in the forum, try issuing a scam accusation thread for this will warn users not to trade with paypal user with the email ID.  This is the reason some paypal users curse the day they were scammed by someone by disputing the transactions they made.

This is what happened when you use a centralize platform with a system like this, Paypal should remove that Chargeback system because it is being use by the scammers for so many times and yet Paypal didn’t pay attention on that. Its better to transact btc to btc next time and don’t use any third party system and of course trust no one and you always need to be safe.

I no longer use paypal, frankly i'm not too fond of paypal, in my opinion the system is too complicated though good for security, the money that has been sent can be retrieved again with the dispute feature, maybe it's to avoid money laundering, but I feel uncomfortable with the feature.

Until now, I also rarely use PayPal, especially when PayPal has a lot of regulations. other than that, PayPal transactions need clarity, however, I am sad to hear that. then try another way to exchange the bitcoin that you have on the exchanger, or Fiat, then buy PayPal elsewhere. I'm pretty sure some people use the system from PayPal to take back their money. because of this, I also only make transactions with people I trust if using PayPal.

I have seen some case like that when people harms with dispute system from Paypal. Usually buyer always win it and some bad people make it as advantage to scam people. Well, sorry for the loss, maybe with this you learn something and in future can warn people when they want to do transaction via Paypal. I really rare to use it except to subscribe my patreon.

Seen this many times and good thing I am not using paypal for any crypto transactions and just use it for my payroll as virtual assistant. TBH, I don't get it why some still uses third party transactions when we can freely trade on bunch of trading sites, not to mention Paxful had some recent issues about account locked up.

Anyway, lesson learned in an expensive way is the torturing part.

Bad choose for convert your bitcoin become paypal because paypal have way to dispute your transaction, I have experience how to know paypal working where almost transaction sending by using PayPal payment way can take back again just few minute after sending, your received from PayPal can get back by sender and you have looking trusted friend to convert your paypal with bitcoin.

Isn't this the case of Peer to peer transaction iirc? Yea, a lot of loopholes could be found when doing deals with PayPal since a simple issue or report to PayPal with regards to the transaction and the seller, would 100% lose his money. This is why most avoid Paypal. Should have done a bit of research with regards to transactions done by others through PayPal. Your situation isn't really that unique since a lot has been scammed in this way. Badluck OP. Good luck with the report to Paypal though, hope you get it back.

Sorry man, the worst time in the year to get scammed. This has been happening for years now with PayPal tho;/ It even used to work when they bought crypto related stuff like miners lol. It's so sad PP is just keeping this state for so long. I'm not using it since 2014 for these reasons and will never use it again, especially when it looks like they are not gonna change their policies unless forced to.

A lot of people also had a bad experienced in using paypal because it is not really safe and their service is really bad, that is why i prefer not to use paypal in most of my transactions. I only use my paypals upon receiving payments if my customer is using paypal, then i immediately withdraw it if i already received it for me not to have any problems.

Sucks to be you mate. There were already a lot of others who experienced the same as you, Idk how you didn't discover it before hand. Pay the cashback if they refuse to understand the situation though, cause if not, might result to official action done to you, which is not worth it imo. Paypal should just be used for sent and receive of fiat since it hasn't really accommodated yet for the current crypto scene. Well, at least you know not to use it next time. Sad new years to you but hope for the best with the report to Paypal. Hopefully they actually review it properly.

Thank you for sharing your story here at least we are all reminded and we do have idea of what happened, yeah, I think he can really do such thing if he wanted to scam. Actually, in telegram there are persons who were getting to know you, once you are already comfortable to him, they will ask you for this kind of transaction, good thing my friend didn't transact with him.

Family & Friends paypal option should be always used as described - for sending money to family and friends which you can trust.

When you send using the normal option will protect you as you can always make a dispute. If you want to make a BTC to PayPal transaction you might want to use an escrow.

This happened already before and that was the mistake of OP for allowing someone to do the transaction with paypal and bitcoin. Those reversible account of paypal is already a bad move if you combine it with any cryptocurrency. Not unless you know this someone as your closest friends or family that you trusted already.

Paybal banned crypto related purchases so you have be trapped here by that scammer.This is the biggest risk of using p2p trading platforms even the onw who has more positive feedbacks might be involved in these kind of scams if the money involved is huge.Paxful will block the scammers account for sure and if there is any bitcoin left the scammer will give you the bitcoin or money but I doubt there won't be any dust on the scammer's paxful wallet.

I did experienced the same kind of scam in LBC few months back but luckily the money involved is just about $80 but the scammer lost his 0.05BTC on his lbc wallet and still frozen by the staffs of LBC. ;D

Both true, unfortunately.

There are some members here that you can trust (as much as you can trust anyone on a discussion forum) with PayPal deals, but there aren't many of them.  I've had no other option to buy bitcoin for years, so I pretty much have to buy it with PayPal funds and I know it's not the best way to do it, and that people might think their funds are at risk from a chargeback.  It sucks all around, but ever since Circle stopped selling bitcoin there's been no good way to buy it.  Coinbase permabanned my ass even before Circle went to the dark side, and I can't even use Binance anymore because they don't support my state.

I wouldn't say never deal with PayPal, because I'd be a hypocrite but just be extremely careful who you're dealing with.  I would only accept it from someone who has a long history of PayPal deals with no chargebacks and even then I wouldn't deal with huge amounts.

I don't really know how charge back at PayPal works...Just tried to understand it by going through their website., not so clear to me.
You probably broke the site's terms and conditions and a dispute was launched against you by the buyer?
Well, I guess you should try your best to see if this resolved satisfactorily... You shouldn't give up yet.

 I have used paypal in 2015 to open my ecommerce website, it was so bad that I had to remove it from the website and used a direct bank wire instead. Do you know how horrible it is to doxx yourself to all of your customers? Because when you do direct bank wire, that means everybody will know your account name which is your name in my nation, so they got my first name and last name and account number in order to pay me, I literally preffered to doxx myself and get all my personal information out in the open in exchange of not using paypal and it was totally worth it. Not only does paypal get the money out of you for chargebacks they also charge you money for getting a chargeback.

 So in total, you gave an item to someone which is a minus, you didn't get the money plus you are charged for it because of silly paypal rules, I had to pay! to give someone the product! I will NEVER use paypal again, for absolutely NO REASON at all, thankfully the new company I work for allows me to use bitcoin payments, the other people can pay however they want but I am receiving bitcoins for it, it takes a steep cut for it but it allows me to stay hidden and never share any info aside from my bitcoin wallet address.

If you are using the option goods and services, it's relatively easy to request a charge back and have PayPal side with you as buyer. Another option, which works with both friends and family and goods and services payments, is to charge back from your bank. PayPal will then make sure that it deducts that amount in full from your account.

Scammers tend to comfort people saying that they can't charge back on them because they use the friends and family option, but they don't tell them anything about how you can get transactions reversed on the side of your bank as well. I have seen it happen quite a lot that people have lost money thinking they are safe with friends and family payments. :-\

Bitcoin might be volatile, but at least you won't be losing out by accepting it. PayPal & Co are too flawed and only have eye for the buyers.

It was really stupid decision to do friends and family option as PayPal is too strict about the charge backs. If you have some reputation in your bank with transactions then never connect PayPal to it.

There are reputable exchanges where you can easily buy bitcoin with your credit card, and thanks to Binance, in some countries you can even purchase or sell Cryptocurrencies directly with your bank account and if this service hasn't reached your area yet, it's only a matter of time before it does because the main focus of Binance right now is to reach as many countries as possible.

Anyways this was a mistake and thanks to your post, many other people would learn from it and avoid falling victims to this kind of scam, the timing really sucks.

A lot of people conduct these sorts of chargebacks by disputing charges with their bank or credit card provider, and when that happens PayPal's usually not able to do much for the person that gets scammed and you end up losing money. That's a big reason why I avoid selling or receiving funds with PayPal and I always move the funds over to my bank account(s) whenever possible; buyer protection's amazing, but as a seller it's extremely easy to get screwed over by anyone that happens to want to get something for free.

I've had very similar problems selling things on eBay, especially sneakers recently with the 0% fees on eBay now for sneakers. It's much harder for you to even defend against a claim when the item in question being transacted is digital, and I believe PayPal even says they don't let people transact with funds for cryptocurrency somewhere on their site. I know some people have had their PayPal accounts limited and/or stopped for 180 days because PayPal figured out the accounts these people were using were transacting for cryptocurrency.

And a second effect for @OP, Paypal will soon close definitely his account for violating their terms of service. Currencies exchanges are not allowed and they consider it a strict violation of their platform. They don't forgive anything about it

A third effect is @OP will never be able to open a second account, unless he uses buggy name of course, but will never be able to link his bank account or debit card.

@OP did you sold your Bitcoin to one of the members here? If so then maybe you can put up a scam accusation thread against him although there is no guarantee it is better to put in a little hope to recover your Bitcoin. In Paypal transactions where you are the one sending crypto I wouldn't even recommend the use of escrow since chargebacks can be filed 120 days or more after that transaction so there is really no guarantee that you will still have that payment in your balance not unless you cash it out.

Sorry for you loss pal and this is indeed a lesson learn for you.Only deal up with people who do have good reputation specially you do agree with Paypal terms
which chargebacks is common thats why its been commonly used by scammers due for this reason.You arent the only one who do experience such situation
but lots of people specially if they arent aware on how Paypal do works.

That is why I don't even use paypal for buying bitcoins based also of the testaments of other users, too. I have read same scenario like
 this (https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Paypal-Fraud-Bitcoins-or-digital-products/td-p/1186878) last year.

Better to use local exchange in transacting bitcoin. Buying in local exchange is better.

I had a chargeback on something I sold on Ebay and it took me several months to get it settled. What they did was call up their credit card company and say they didn't issue that charge. Some people have gotten really smart about it and wait for the 120 days to pass and USPS takes the tracking information out of their system at that point. But, you can still chargeback on Paypal up to 180 days. So, there was no longer any proof of delivery since USPS deleted the information out of the system and I was no longer eligible for seller protection. Literally took me about 3 months to get that sorted out.

Paypal has different opinion about bitcoin and so far they reject all transaction that include bitcoin, same like my bad experience with PTC ( Paid to Click ). Other problem is about speed transactions, several times Paypal get long delay and users get frustrated about it. This is only about choose the method for transaction and have bad experience. Paypal really not recommended for PTC, bitcoin and gambling sites. Choose another option for your crypto activity, just let it go and good luck for next transactions.

I used to use paypal before, but I gave up after the first use. Because I was scammed after successfully selling my order and getting paid. The buyer tried to mark the transaction and said he had not received the goods, as a result of which I was debited to the account and he received the money back with my goods. Honestly, I don't like the way paypal works and I believe that many victims will be like me

I never convert bitcoin with PayPal without know clearly about seller and trusted person because PayPal have authorized way where many payment sending can get back before six month later after deal for transaction, how much you received payment from PayPal convert from your bitcoin can dispute by seller sent PayPal, you must looking for very trusted seller with your PayPal account.

I have also experienced something like that, where when I sell something using a certain merchant suddenly after a few days, my customer plays cheat, he makes a chargeback so I have to resolve this case for months.

Seen from many cases, I think the paypal system is too flawed to become a financial service. Even my friend feels cheated by cheating customers. The solution is to use Escrow or transfer directly without the merchant.

If paypal was perfect, we wouldn't need bitcoin to start with. Many many many business' have worked with paypal has complained about how shady their business practices are and how unfair they treat the sellers which is why most of them even stopped using paypal.

Right now, paypal doesn't even worth as much as it used to worth and if it was something huge and people loved it and they were perfect, you can be assured that a company that is bigger like google or apple or whatever (even facebook) would have purchased them long ago for billions to make sure they control the online payment world as well but paypal sucks so there is nothing that can include all the world in the payment systems, hell there are NATIONS banning paypal now, they are THAT bad and I am 99% sure they will be bankrupt and gone in couple years.

I’ve heard this scam before. The sad thing is that apparently PayPal doesn’t understand Bitcoin enough to know that they are scamming us so they are on the side of the scammer. Just don’t do it because it’s too risky and there’s nothing you can do if they scam you.

If you have biggest transaction in daily day never use PayPal as your payment currency, many time PayPal team support always make our account limited where we can't sent balance and withdraw to bank, I faced last year when active investing with several online investment project support deposit using PayPal I faced trouble always when to purchase payment because I failed for sending my PayPal balance.

In the case of BTC trading to Paypal you have to make transactions to those who have high trust, in this forum many people have high trust, so if you make a transaction to people who have high trust your funds will be safe. I often do this kind of transaction and everything runs smoothly. and I will not make transactions to those who do not have trust or with a newbie account.

I haven't done it yet with paypal. I think paypal and bitcoin should have agreement regarding payments in order to avoid this kind of mistakes. The friend that you've trusted must also know what happen. You must also confront your friend regarding it to help solve the issue.

Sorry for your loss mate, you should have transacted to someone who are trusted here in the forum.

In this board, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0.. you can see some people who are have trust from DT or even DT are trading their bitcoin to paypal and vice versa and there was a warning from Theymos regarding paypal reversal transaction.

That’s why it’s good to check people’s ratings before making a deal with them or you will end up falling for scammers. And PayPal, I don’t recommend that, people can do business with you and then report you as a scam to PayPal just like this guy did to you. Ever since I started making use of Bitcoin I usually do bank transfers.

Once I send the money I request that they make payment to my bank account, though I have been trading with someone who is a close friend. Most times these scammers can easily be identified, but some of us don’t even pay attention to those details.

Should've gone here first before you made the transaction.
There are a lot of users that uses the method but they are all trusted ones.
As long as you have the money, there are different ways to buy bitcoin.

This should be a lesson learned not just for him but for all of us in the crypto industry.

It will be a lesson to to be learn for all of us especially to him, yes you are right he should ask here for other persons to guide him or he should ask his crypto friends if they think that it is safe to transact with those kind of persons. So far, thanks for sharing here as many becomes aware with this kind of modus.

Thing here is that there are people who are really shy nor lazy enough to make out verifications or do ask question regarding into their planned transaction which do result into loss of money yet they do
able to commit mistake on dealing with the wrong person.

It doesnt really require too much time on asking out someone or the community yet this will save up your a** on losing your precious bitcoins and yes there were lots of
methods on buying though and always put up on mind on should dealing with legit people and highly trusted.

Since paypal treats Bitcoin as virtual good you won't get the chargeback he requested cancelled. Meaning you won't get your money back.
This scam is going on since paypal was launched and you should understand that this service is basically useless.
I don't even understand why people keep trusting it. I don't even trust my bank and I would trust paypal instead?
Anyway the response you will probably get is that they don't accept disputes over chargeback for the sale of virtual goods.
Unless something changed since the last time I used them, five years ago.

How long can they charge back for?  I recall it was a set amount.  Also do you know the person's real name who bought btc from you for paypal?  So that paypal is 100% theirs?  Or could it be their paypal was hacked?

It is sorry to hear that. I can't sleep that buddy for a few days.
I'd used PayPal to convert my Bitcoins and it runs smoothly. Maybe at your part, you'll be having a deal to someone you'd never know and totally a scammer. But that is the only and the last time I'd used PayPal, and I'd never used it again. But hearing this one, I found it more careful for the next deal with.

Make sure you are using a midman or an escrow if you want to trade bitcoin or other cryptocurrency without using exchanges, the fee of an escrow is not much, fewer than exchanges fee and withdrawal fee. So, it's dangerous if you trade bitcoin or any other currency without an exchange.

This is the reason why before making any transactions and I mean "anything" as long as it is online, verify the background of who you are dealing with. What happened to you is not only for Paypal, it goes with everything with online. You trusted that person because you think Paypal is safe, you should have searched if its reversible. Anything is possible nowadays with social engineering. Who knows if that person who screwed you is also here in this thread giving you an advise.

This has been an issue since bitcoin/ cryptocurrency started.

But do not rule out the possibility even though we verify who is dealing with us, it will be safe because scammers will always find a gap to scam, sometimes they are smarter. The right solution is to always use a service that is able to make our transactions safe and smooth, essentially a win-win solution. For example escrow, if it's paypal then don't use Paypal Friends and Familiy, or use another system that doesn't harm both of them in the future.

Chargebacks are not possible in crypto currencies so what is the issue here is using centralized services which restricted the crypto transaction and trusting the person with no real experience in this field.

Never deal with persons who never know in cryptos or even in fiat,chances of scam and getting traced that scammer is highly not possible.

A good reminder for anyone who is dealing the same thing. Yes, with Paypal.
They won't be liable with those losses and they wont care even if you put a ticket a million times over.

Now, this had been already a thing before and that is why they don't prefer this kind of method anymore.
I mean, what are exchange for nowadays? Ain't it the same and you are dealing with the exchange and not directly with a human being.

One of the excellent payment transaction today is the PayPal this application is a wallet that converted those transferred money depends on the country you are. Many people use this because it's connect connected to bank accounts; that's why many use this to buy things online. To make a transaction with the use of this medium, it depends on both party who is the one who sends the payment first, after sending the verification of the other party for having proof of payment then the other party will do their part too. By this kind of way of the transaction and the use of technology, it is easy now to manipulate the things we see through online, and there are a lot of scammers now doing this kind of activity. To make sure the transaction, it is better to have a meet up with a witness to avoid scam or get a middle man that handles the trade to make it sure.

I got my Paypal account limited after selling Bitcoin because the buyer requested a dispute. I tried to send all proofs but the buyer won and i lost my money.

This really a scam to me and Paypal does have this kind of rule if they make a dispute and provide the details if they like have unauthorize transaction that doesn't make any sense if the receiver will lost their money since you've transact a crypto.

And you've your lesson and avoid this transaction in the future because sending a crypto information and providing details is not enough to be valid.

I never use paypal to buy or sell cryptocurrencies, the dispute feature is a loophole that crooks can take advantage of. Using OTC on exchanges is much more convenient and secure.

Paypal is a unethical organization that looks like a legit business. It is simple as that, no company in the whole world could get away with you not getting paid while actually using their payment processor. Think about bitcoin that way and how horrible that sounds, you give someone fiat on paypal, they give you bitcoins, then they make a chargeback and both end up with your fiat and their bitcoins back and on top of that you are charged with a fee for it. You would hate bitcoin if that was the case right?

Well, paypal is doing exactly that and they are not getting any punishment for it. Paypal WAS a good payment processor back in the day, not anymore. People realized how damaged their system is and moving away from it, it is the system of 2000-2013ish years, and have been going down every single year since those days.

I have heard so much complaints that were unresolved, so I never trust paypal too, besides that their fee is too high which was not really right compare to the big exchanges, so I never used it as I checked their reviews first before having it, but I doubted it, also asked my friends feedback and they were all unsatisfied with paypal.

Worse thing to experience while year end. This is why I turn down an employer who will try to hire me outside of the upwork so he can pay me thru paypal.  I wouldn't take the risk and will just accept upwork taking the 10% than being scammed by someone with bought upwork account. There are trusted users who buy paypal $ with BTC, its them that you should trade.

Nowadays there are more people who want to take advantage from weakeness system from a site, and maybe a lot of people already know maybe Paypal sometime really on buyer's side, maybe right it is buyer protection but that system really can be used by bad people to do something like what OP tell to us.

You should know the fact that using fiat as payment in any bank accounts or even in the payment fiat processor like Paypal is very risky. Because fiat is reversible transaction and chargeback may occur after several days. Because a buyer can file a chargeback within 120 days after the transactions have been placed. But OP has a few days to answer the chargebacks and defend his self, I think 10 days or short term 1 week. Because chargebacks were eventually resolved after 75 days by PayPal staff. Nevertheless, you can use this forum for the exchange trade PayPal to bitcoin. I saw in currency exchange section.

I once made a transaction with my friend from bitcoin to paypal, luckily there was no problem, my friend did not make a chargeback claim.
You might get a wrong friend. next time, if you want to do a transaction try asking for help from people in this forum who already have a high level of trust. or look for an exchanger site that supports bitcoin to paypal, even though it's hard to find. keep careful especially those who deal with paypal, very risky and troublesome.

Shit like this happens bro. I am sorry to hear this but you will have to move on learning from your mistakes.
It's good that you are trying to get your money back and I wish you really do but the chances are too slim.
Paypal should never be used to make crypto payments because we can reverse the transaction in Paypal which is why it is suggested not to use Paypal.
You should have done your research well before making such a transaction.

I have done tons of Paypal trades on here for cryptocurrencies and I have never once had a problem. The best thing to do is look at someones feedback when you're trading with them. If they have done a lot of trades and there's no warning about their e-mail recently changing or anything under their profile, it's probably safe to trade with them. Mainly, stay away from newbie accounts who have never done a trade before. Those are the people who are more likely to scam you. They have no reputation on this forum to lose.

Always exchange with trusted members and if you are desperate need of exchange , there are few genuine exchange from where you can exchange btc to PayPal. There is a simple rule in crypto space that do not trust anybody unless you have connections with them and do not use e-wallets which can reverse transaction.

you are unlucky.  I also used to trade with Paypal and everything was pretty awesome.  but sometimes the system will have problems and you need to wait a long time to fix it.  these are quite unfortunate and next time you should trade in Huobi OTC.  It's very legit and I trade a lot there, fee is quite low.

So what is best way to sell btc to strangers then that is safe?  Is cash deposit at bank and waiting for next business day good enough?  What about a bank transfer like zelle?  Or bank wire?

You can actually use any other payment method that does not charge-back. Wire transfer, Skrill, Perfect money, etc would be suitable for you in this case if you want to buy bitcoins directly with your fiat money in your bank. Paypal is no longer safer to trade bitcoins as the problem which OP faced, might have to be faced by any of us if we trade with paypal again.

Paypal is good for centralized transactions as such similar problems would be easily solved if the transactions are in the centralized field but I doubt, they would never be resolved if they are in the decentralized field so it is always better for us to strictly avoid dealing with paypal.

I agree. I wouldn't recommend dealing with paypal if you can avoid using it. In some cases you don't have a choice though, since a lot of westerners use it.

It applies not only to dealing with cryptocurrencies but any other virtual goods, including such thing like World of Warcraft account. You may face chargeback in each case where you have no paper proof of shipping.

This is not the first case. A lot of people have already been experienced such problems where paypal asks for the charge-back. The worst case once was about the charge-back which took place after more than 6 months so you would never know if you have made a correct deal with the appropriate person in terms of paypal. PayPal transactions should immediately be stopped for buying bitcoins as bitcoins are not even legal so we cannot even file a case in order to reject the charge-back.

We have to forcefully pay the charge-back or the bank might take some legal action against us. How much was the amount? This would never allow you to trade bitcoins with paypal again so treat it as a lesson.

The perceived safety of Paypal FF is honestly blowing my mind.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that Paypal payments, whether or not it is sent as a friends and family payment, are reversible by every means. And with paypal's track record, it is very likely that they will always side with the buyer side.

Which leaves you, the seller, significantly out of pocket if people do chargeback. And given the history of Paypal, it is a favourite of those who choose to be unscrupulous.

Transaction using bitcoin and PayPal have different method where using PayPal you can take back your money although have sent to the other, I have many experience with several years ago using PayPal as payment transaction joining many invest online site, after receive payment some project dispute my transaction and I have lost my receive payment.

indeed I hear paypal does not work with any bitcoin and cryptocurrency platforms so I suggest when you make any investment you don't use paypal but maybe you can use the cryptocurrency platform to cryptocurrency so you should exchange your money for cryptocurrency first, whereas in the country I already have an exchange place that has been recognized by the government to exchange from local money to cryptocurrency money so it will be easier if the investment uses cryptocurrency.

Paypal is one thing but I am really scared for people who want to deal with even cash at this point, I mean we are talking about thousands of dollars here and you may be in public when you meet someone for cash trading however if you are dealing with anything around 1 btc and you do not live in a huge nation (or even if you do) its 9 thousand dollars, people would seriously consider going to jail over that kind of money almost anywhere in the world.

What if one day I meet up with someone for bitcoin trading in cash, he shows me the money, I send him the btc, he just takes off? Not like I would be able to keep him grounded until cops show up, I would probably just following him like a dog barks at cars, not knowing what to do when I catch him, vice versa for giving cash and waiting for btc.

Use your local wallet or any online wallet that supports your local currency and the crypto you want to trade. There are a lot of ways to sell btc to a complete stranger and banking / credit card isn't that preferable nowadays, due to the fact that one of you must pay first and both would be hard to have or gain trust on sending first. Better send Bitcoins through online wallet, like here in the Philippines whereas you can buy and sell Bitcoins through a single app. If you also use coinbase which supports USD and BTC, you wouldn't worry with those kind of tragedies happened to the OP.

Remember, transacting online alone is risky.

i dont get your other points so i just snip out your other coments  . what i only understand is this  .  i agree that paypal is scary because unlike crypto , paypal is reversible  . you can hold the funds  , which can easily be used for scamming  . not just that , but your infos can also be seen when you use paypal  . this is the warning that i see actually before . they say never trade a crypto using paypal not unless if there is an escrow or the person is really trusted  .

While paypal's refund feature is really the amazing one, it has also huge disadvantage and that's what you say. Not only personal transactions but a lot of ebay buyers say lies including: I haven't received item, it's damaged, it's doesn't have original smell (fragrance) and etc. What can we do? Nothing but to return money in most cases. Paypal is the most acceptable payment for buyers and for that reason sellers have to agree with that but why do you hang on your customer sellers?
OP pp/btc deal isn't easy, you have to trust user or if he/she isn't trustworthy, then keep in mind that your money isn't your for a while.

This is the issue with all Paypal transactions. The buyer is virtually always favored when it comes to disputes and if there are reversals through credit card companies, the buyer is unequivocally favored and money is taken directly from Paypal which means Paypal takes away the balance from your account. This is the reason why you should never deal virtual goods, let alone Bitcoin, through Paypal because in the event of a dispute, Paypal asks for a tracking number to insure a product was delivered to a buyer. If you cannot supply any sort of tracking number as is with digital purchases, you're shit out of luck.

If you look at Venmo, Skrill, CashApp, all reversible garbage that operate on the same mechanics of Paypal.

This is happening commonly with the people. With the chargeback policy scammers are the one who benefit. Not only with cryptocurrency exchange, but this has happened with other services too. Same issue I encountered with the banking system while selling bitcoin. Later I was issued a notice to send back the amount from the banking sector stating a police complaint has been raised against me. Somehow I released the fund and got out of the issue.

PayPal can be trusted to make transactions with trusted people. Op could've made the deal with the trusted traders from our forum.

you should not blame Paypal mate because first it is your mistake not researching r asking here the community if this transaction is safe.
because for many threads here specially in service it is more often discussed to stay away from Paypal/bitcoin or cryptp i mean because this is irreversible so all transaction made can be scammed by the other involve.make this as learning mate.

Its necessarily not a problem of all paypal transaction if the payment recipients take the require protection steps by trading with trusted users.


It clearly his mistakes and i don't need him to ask the community about the PayPal transaction reverse policy cause it is well stated in the PayPal rules of restrictions on transfers or withdrawals from PayPal accounts. I think the problem is people being lazy to read and understand what to do which was also the precise reason why some newbies are slaughtered through their crypto investment.

If this is the case with paypal than how could we even deal with trusted people? Because as far as I know, paypal implies chargeback even after few months passed so it would never actually get to know us about which dealer has asked for a chargeback. Paypal should sooner find out some remedy for this bug as it is really eating a lot of profits from the traders.

Paypal is a better medium to directly purchase bitcoins with our fiat currency and we could even directly transfer from our bank accounts but this case with paypal might make paypal loose a number of good traders. Paypal is a centralized platform so there would be questions to be asked ahead if they charge a police FIR.

There actually are a number of scammers here in cryptocurrency markets. Scammers always tend to find newer ways to scam users. PayPal transactions were a boost for all those scammers. Even I went through such people who were selling and buying bitcoins with PayPal but none of them were trustworthy even though they were dealing with a larger amount.

These kind of trades usually seems riskier because the people/scammers who use PayPal to transact such deals might not even use their own personal PayPal accounts but those accounts which are hacked or sold in the black markets so it would never allow PayPal to reverse your funds again from such persons. This is the major reason behind why I stay away from PayPal trades.

If paypal is this bad, then why is paypal the number 1 option or only option for ppl who sell on ebay?  If that is case, couldn't lot of ppl just chargeback on products bought on ebay or that is not possible if seller make sure there is something is receipt that prevents this?  Imagine selling a computer or expensive electronic?  What about clothes?  Or what about cable wires or cheaper products?



Also ppl can chargeback more than 6 months later?  I heard 6 month was the max.



Also if you accept paypal from someone, wouldn't you need to trust this person close to 100%  I mean if you accept it from stranger, how would you know its even this person's actual paypal account and not a hacked account.  Is there anything that helps you with this?  Only thing i can think of is ask them for their passport and have them take a picture of themselves holding their passport?  The same with bank transfers.  Wouldn't you need someone to confirm its their bank account before you transact? 



But if you have them deposit cash in bank, that is safe as long as the banking day is closed right?  I heard a long time ago ppl would deposit cash in someones bank account, show them receipt, then go back to the bank and tell them they deposited into wrong bank account.  Is there anything to prevent this?



Because it seems its only wire transfer and cash deposit in bank and bank closes that day where you don't have to worry right?  I heard skrill, venmo and cashapp all are reversible.  But perfectmoney is as well?  Can you use that in the US?

You need to provide extensive proof, sellers have a track record and usually their personal info + adresses linked to their accounts, - and paypal stems from Ebay and vice versa. (All these factors probably contribute to paypal being used as n#1.)
I imagine that there are numerous fraud systems in place from preventing that- asking documents/bank statements for large transactions, logging IP's, asking for signatures when receiving packages, etcetera.


I believe only if the payment is made through a credit card company. - he could tell the credit card company the payment was fraudulent, even after 6 months, and I believe that there's a chance some providers will reverse the transaction. Not sure though.

For high value and high risk transactions- that would be a good idea.
But one can also photoshop bank statements and other documents, so that still isn't waterproof.


You could probably open a dispute if it was for certain goods.


I'd also like to mention that it is against Paypal's TOS to trade Bitcoin -> Paypal, hence why there is barely any sellers' protection and vice versa.