Bitcoin Forum

Situation has been resolved

I suggest make a formal scam accusation on this board -

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0

On this board, users can see potential scammers and serves as a warning for them.
If livemines wants to clarify their name, they will respond to your thread and give their side.
They are new in this gambling community, so they might want to air their side.

Thank you for posting the thread, We will surely make another to expose how you tried to steal from us and abused the bug.

I am the site Administrator writing this post and not the forum account manager.

As to how you abused the bug : We are still investigating and have closed the website for external users!

The user has deposited 0.0200 BTC at his deposit address : 1Jn13SpkWMCAyoEEQY54M4DpBu5rdqTtG1 with transaction hash : f077d5e90ea4ae00985a8674d33a5746906884f5bece312e4e642678efc28d66

You can see the Game history played by this user here after depositing : https://livemines.com/history.php?user=ringo362

It is in Descending order and you are able to see all the games played by the user with bet amount with recent games on TOP.

Luckily, We were testing our new Dev features when this caught my attention. User was able to bet more than he was supposed to as his balance did not allow him to do that.

He immediately put up a withdrawal request, Our withdrawals are instant but are subject to manual if user behavior is detected odd.

I personally looked at all his games, and found sever discrepancies in the game.

When the user Emailed me directly at admin@livemines.com

I replied him with ; https://gyazo.com/74b751bc49cd6f81ed6f0c4f02e45373

The user still acted dumb and tried to trick. : https://gyazo.com/c4b1a2bb398753d142857365b7902e5e

If the picture isn;'t clear, this is what I replied :

"I have found some serious discrepancies in your game.

Your account suspension will not be lifted in any case.

If your next reply is not about how you were able to pull this off, I am afraid you will loose your full initial deposit too.

We are not idiots running the Website here. Choose your next reply wisely.
 It maybe your last shot.


-- LiveMines ADMIN "


He didn't accept what he did and as in our terms : https://livemines.com/terms.php

We have the right to terminate your account if you are trying abusing the system or indulge in unfair play. "

I really do not care about the money, I care about the ethics.

We have a open bug bounty program running here : https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=6036941

I gave the user a chance to come clean on his doings which is more than fair I can be towards someone who is trying to cash out via unfair play. His suspension will not be lifted.

I am open for an investigation from Administrator, Moderators, Staff of this forum. I am willing to transfer his deposit to an Administrator, Moderator until they can verify. I am willing to share details and happy to assist them with on board investigation. This is only for Administrator, Moderators or Staff of this forum.

I didn't played with that site but the OP seem to have found some bug to know the results beforehand by opening multiple of tabs at once. The results might be somewhat linked. Though the OP abused the bug he/she should have reported, it's also unprofessional for a gambling site with simple bugs to let user deposit and withdraw.

We are currently investigating this bug. Your security is taken as utmost importance. We have an open bug bounty program as well for this matter. Your deposits are safe as long as you at least don't harm/abuse our website. We have provided enough evidence in our reply at first. We are taking this matter seriously.

and No, The bug isn't related to knowing the results before hand. We cannot comment anymore for now at this matter.

 

We don't allow liars and cheaters to come and play with unfair means. We do allow bots and are happy with any strategies. Users who have withdrawn from our site can confirm our statement.

As to your question that you tried to withdraw your initial deposit,

Here's the post by you on our thread where you can be seen withdrawing rest of the winnings and failed because we detected the unfair play.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5212374.20

https://gyazo.com/dfa70f2adc90ba4aceb416554e0e77c3

We will not be communicating any further on this thread. Please refer to our first reply on this thread.

If you close the site for every withdraw that's not how it's done.
I have checked his history and it seems that he played up to 300 bits per round which is 0.0003 if I understand correctly denomination on your site.

We have terminated your account and is not going to re-open as I have explained in the first reply. You had your chance to come through, You didn't. We have every proof needed be to show the moderators and admin as to how you did it.

We have opened up, We have processed every withdrawal till date. There isn't a single instance for which we have not processed withdrawals otherwise it wouldn't be the first scam report on us. We know building trust and reputation takes time but we simply can't allow players to take advantage of the bugs. That's a strict NO.

If you can see the link of his history bets,  please check how he is able to Bet for 30,000 bits if he have deposited 0.0200 BTC which is 20,000 Bits when he didn't win more than 1000 Bits in total. If I wasn't online and paying attention, his withdrawal would have been processed and it would have been a loss on us. Would it be fair then for us to make a scam report on someone we don't know ? We don't ask for KYC or any personnel details. Neither will we in the future.

We have investigated the issue as to how he was able to do so, We cannot disclose this publicly yet but we will.

However, We will not allow unethical players who violate our terms and try to take advantage.

You are correct. That's definitely a big!
Why would he bet that much just to cash out without clicking any fields.
If he had been smarter he would take 500$+ bounty

He had only 20 bits profit (https://livemines.com/showGame.php?id=3481) when he placed 10,000 bits over his deposit amount https://livemines.com/showGame.php?id=3489  followed by another bet https://livemines.com/showGame.php?id=3490 with additional 6000 bits profit out of nowhere

I would have given a nice bounty reward for it. I gave him a chance in the Email also to come through. Also after investigating, We have found that this couldn't have been done without specific intentions or just accidentally.

It was a prepared attack against our system. I cannot comment more about as to what was the bug right now but it is quite difficult to track and mitigate. I will be adding a post regarding this bug so that people/developer can understand more about this. It was harder for us to replicate the bug in the first place. More to be announced soon regarding this case from our side.

Whatever is the issue with the website the admin should not have kept the initial deposit of OP. It is very unprofessional and rude. This has to be posted on Scam accusation as the OP is able to provide the evidence. The admin should be banned from BTT as fraudsters and scammers are not welcomed in this forum.

Any site would really have the rights as long those claims were valid and true but if this one cant able to show off a solid evidence then there would really that kind of doubt if they are just trying to pull off some scam or not.

For that amount it isnt really that worthy for them to do so thats why i do saw that they are somewhat telling the truth.This is just my own view though but im not still convinced until they show off a solid evidence.

Can you give us something that can believe us here if the Livemines site is a scam.
Or related to your lost assets stolen by them, show us.
If you can show evidence that you were deceived by the Livemines Admin, which is legitimate, I will give @Livemines a red warning.
Try and complete the evidence, if you are fooled by them. [Livemines].

We have not stolen a single bit from anybody nor do we have any interest of doing so.

Please refer to my previous posts on this thread.

As said earlier, I gave the user a chance to come clean on his doings which is more than fair I can be towards someone who is trying to cash out via unfair play. His suspension will not be lifted.

Do read our terms in case of any doubt.

We will be presenting our evidence as to how OP manipulated the vulnerability and achieved undesired results.

Whatever is the issue ? This wasn't just a "whatever". OP tried to scam us and you want us to help him ? WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY UNFAIR PLAY, PRACTICES.

AS TO ANYONE READING THIS THREAD MAKE SURE TO SEE OP GAME ROUNDS HERE :


https://livemines.com/history.php?user=ringo362


How can a person Bet for 30,000 and 36,000 Bits when he deposited 20,000 Bits into the account with no profit more than 1000 Bits.

We have investigated that he tried to performed an attack and was successful in doing so, However we caught him doing so.

WE WILL NOT BE LIFTING HIS ACCOUNT SUSPENSION.

Do read our terms here if anyone here is in any confusion as to if we can exercise this right or not :

www.LiveMines.com/terms.php

Hey, the allegation question and proof about LiveMines that I ask is not for you and your site.
I want to clarify the accusations of BTCneedhelp1, against the LiveMines gaming site, if accusing the gaming site of scam is based on strong evidence, it concerns the reputation of the gaming site of the person.

@BTCneedhelp1, I ask for proof of loss and fraud against you, if you don't provide evidence, it means your accusation is false.
I'm waiting, if you don't provide proof I will mark you about false accusations.

As we have made your games public which you had played : https://livemines.com/history.php?user=ringo362

You can see your Bets as to how you tried to abuse our system.

We were vulnerable to Race attack condition vulnerability and you were able to use this to your advantage as to cash out the value which you didn't bet. Everyone can clearly see the timings of the game.

Ref : Please see Game ID 3485 -- 3490 in the game history.

Users can see the time when the games were created, There isn't a difference of 1 second in the game you abused. We had thoroughly investigated the issue and then only came to our decision.

You cannot call us a "Scammer" if you have violated our terms in which it is clearly written that all unfair means and practices will result in suspension. Without even coming forward you tried to withdraw all your funds which came through abuse of the bug.

I still gave you a chance to correct and come clean in the email itself. You denied everything.

Your suspension will not be lifted.

We had a hard time replicating this bug ourselves.
Actions of the user were planned and targetted, as he tried to withdraw his False CashOut immediately. Fortunately we don't allow withdrawals before 3 Network confirmation and I was online myself and able to detect this user.
We strictly Condemn cheating.

I will not entertain any further replies.. As for your claim that you had tried to request "only" your initial deposit.

Here's your own post : https://gyazo.com/dfa70f2adc90ba4aceb416554e0e77c3

You tried to withdraw false earnings. Site is and was fixed but was susceptible to race attack vulnerability which you took advantage of. It can be clearly seen by looking at your game timings.

Please take a look at our terms and how you violated them. We gave you a fair chance to come through but you didn't. Please refer to our above posts.

Please take a look at our terms and how you violated them. We gave you a fair chance to come through but you didn't. Please refer to our above posts for more clarification.

Please take a look at our terms and how you violated them. We gave you a fair chance to come through but you didn't. Please refer to our above posts for more clarification.

As a completely random third party who stumbled upon this thread and went through it, LiveMines seem to be the correct party here.

According to the game history of BTCneedhelp1, there is a game which they bet 30k bits (which is 0.03 BTC according to LiveMines) and then bet 36k bits again. However, they shouldn't be able to as they only deposited 20k bits (0.02 BTC).

If a player is betting an amount higher than their balance, I'd see that as a legit bug. And if the player is abusing and then trying to withdraw immediately rather than reporting to the site's staff... That's straight out abuse.

As I said, the evidence is in LiveMines' favour.

We don't allow players to abuse our system and then don't even have the ethics to come clean. Your suspension will not be lifted. For all the users who think we are in wrong, please take a look at our earlier posts from this thread.

We have processed close to 80 Deposits and withdrawals and never had a problem. The Bugs we ever encountered were of UI and some feature requests. We also have an open bug bounty program and pay generously to the bounty hunters. We thoroughly investigated your issue and bug then only came to this decision. We have made your game rounds public for everyone to see. Please refer to our earlier posts. We also gave the user chance to come forward in the email but the user denied and lost his more than fair share of chance to lift his suspension.

The website is bugged yes, which LiveMines do accept that their website was bugged. (Bugged in terms of there is a code which could be exploited, not faulty)


However, that is not the main issue here. Both on your "proof" and theirs they offered you a chance to rectify yourself and report how you managed to wager a bet larger than your available balance and they'd offered to lift your ban and refund your initial deposit. But you continued to say that you haven't done anything wrong. I haven't registered or used LiveMines at all but from my past knowledge when it comes to gambling is that you "start a bet with a certain amount of coins". What I try to state here is that if you are able to bet 30k bits while having 20k balance, that's a clear exploit. Doesn't matter if you had multiple tabs open or not, the issue is even after you found this bug you continued to abuse it until you got to 0.033 BTC, this can be seen on your game history. You could've immediately sent LiveMines a mail or PM here on the forums and report that there is a bug and retrace your steps for them. Which I believe LiveMines might've paid you even more money for reporting a bug.

But you did not. You tried to immediately withdraw your initial deposit. LiveMines obviously detected something wrong with your account and locked it. When you account their terms of service, it all checks out.

The fact that you continued playing even after realising there is something wrong with the system is a good enough reason to suspend your account.

I honestly don't see a reason to comment any further. If LiveMines decides to refund your deposit, good for you. Other than that, there is no scam involved here.

This post is written by the Admin (Me) and not our forum account manager as to which this account belongs to ---

I have personally checked the server error logs/access logs and syslogs after I noticed your unfair game play and cash out pattern. Link is up in the earlier post of this thread I made.

I did not find any error log like "[object] [object] 3..000 >!" or for that matter any error/notices/warnings. It was weird, We continue looking at the pattern of your game play and went on to replicate this issue by trial and error method. We couldn't replicate the bug as we didn't exactly know back then what we were looking for. After some time, I noticed timing of your games and your IP switching. Then only, I came to know that our site is susceptible to "Race-Attack" condition vulnerability. I with my team again went to replicate the bug and it was quite time consuming for us but we finally broke the ice and figured out exactly what you had done.

You clearly state that you were playing on "different tabs" according to you, but this was different IP, Zip location is same but it was IPv6. We (I with my team) then suspected if it was genuine authenticated user which was replaying the attack and confirmed it was you only. We have logs as to which we are ready to share with only Forum Administrators and Moderators.

Even after we confirmed, I gave this user a chance to come forward and claim his responsibility but as expected he didn't cooperate and accused us.

We exercised our rights from our Terms Of Service page located here : www.livemines.com/terms.php and closed his account permanently along with all deposits and balances. He is no longer welcome at our casino.

We have an open bug bounty program running at : https://hackforums.net/showthread.php?tid=6036941
We have many things going on and have plans for future. We have not scammed you. We don't care about your 0.0200 BTC but I am going to be very strict to the users like you who at first 1) Try unfair means to win and withdraw. 2) Do not have ability to accept their responsibility for actions and instead falsely accuse us.

Please check our earlier responses on this thread for more clear clarification. We have processed more than $2k+ withdrawals successfully since we started and not one user had a problem. We will not entertain foul plays by the user.

As written in our Terms :

Fair Play
We will never cheat and we expect the same fairness from you. Any attempt to manipulate the outcome of games is strictly prohibited and will result in possible termination of account and voiding of any winnings and/or account balance..

We reserve the right to terminate any account that appears to abuse the casino or our terms and conditions.

If you try to make any other account on our site, that will be closed too. Beware of this. You are not welcome.

Professionalism is a very very important aspect of running a casino that we find very rarely in today's world unfortunately, we love to taunt how crypto casinos are much better than fiat casinos but in most of fiat casinos you do not see support talking like this to other people. "We are not idiots running this website" or "you have one chance come clean, use your response wisely" and all those sentences reek of horrible management.

I am not saying in this case OP abused or didn't abused the system, I am not really in that power to decide and don't know what happened but honestly it is not really smart of the owners or at least the support to talk like this at all, it gives a horrible vibe and even if they are right they are looking wrong with these answers.

Maybe you should just refund his initial deposit so he can't claim you scammed him. Have him public post a BTC address so that blockchain transaction can prove you refunded him.  For the $150 this isn't worth the headache.  He lost out imho of a bug bounty for $500. 

@BTCneedhelp1, you found a bug, you exploited it.  You didn't report it.  You did violate the games ToS.  Unsure how you think you're entitled to the winnings and even if Livemines decides to keep your $150 I wouldn't consider them in the wrong.  Not a smart move on your part.

I have played LiveMines. It's a cool game.  I deposited $20 and lost it but it was fun. Game seems fair.

And if the vulnerability was a race attack then clearly OP was intentionally trying to steal from your site. In which case, I understand why you don't even want to give him the deposit.

Me personally, if I found a bug in a gambling site, I'd probably try to exploit it too. But I wouldn't be a punk about it if caught and lost my funds. BTCneedhelp1 seems like a whiny brat that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

I think Livemines should offer to send him a check in the mail.  :)  Get his real name and address, see how he likes that.  Offer the refund in check form only.  Hehe.