Bitcoin Forum

People investing in gold coins and bars as a decentralized alternative to fiat currency should realize that these items are not anonymous.  All gold coins and bars are tainted with gold atoms from bullion and jewellery that was destroyed in a smelter when forging the new pieces, and some fraction of this melted gold was involved in crimes over history.  This taint may be well documented and form a chain linking back to REAL IDENTITIES!

Reputable 1-oz bars such as those from Credit Suisse have a unique serial number that can be traced back to the mint where they were produced.  Moreover, the mint keeps a record of what batch of melted gold was used to make each output (coin/bar).  In this record, the mint also logs the sources of the inputs (scrap gold) that were melted down to create the outputs.  Some of these gold inputs came from pawn shops and cash-4-gold shops, and these shops may also keep a record of who sold what gold, especially for large sales.  In fact, some of these records link to people's REAL IDENTITIES!

It is very possible that a thief could have sold stolen jewellery to a cash-4-gold shop, and the cash-4-gold shop could have sold this to the mint, and the mint could have mixed this gold with other gold and made new coins and bars.  We can't tell exactly where the stolen gold went because it got mixed with non-stolen gold, but we can say with certainty that serial numbers xxxxx - yyyyy contain 0.2% taint from my mom's stolen jewellery and we have a paper trail to prove it.  These pieces of gold bullion are subject to seizure by the authorities.  

Since crime never stops, the amount of "bad" taint in the gold network continually increases.  Since gold has been used as money for thousands of years, it is likely that nearly every atom of gold in your possession has been used in a crime at some point in the past and therefore subject to arbitrary seizure by the authorities.  

Gold is traceable, subject to seizure, not legal tender and will never work as money.  You've been warned.  


I am working on a new kind of atom, called anonyatom, that will fix this problem.  



gold coin = bitcoin
mint/smelter = coinjoin tx, regular tx, coinbase tx, etc
serial number = transaction hash
records = blockchain
cash-4-gold = local bitcoins, bitcoin ATM, etc
this entire post = parody

I wonder if anonymint is allowed to post here

Is freshly-mined 'gold' more valuable then, than stuff that's passed through scammy hands?

You must be careful when mining!  If there's any fees in your freshly-mined reward, then the gold in the fee could have been from a scammer and your newly mined gold will still be subject to confiscation.  

That's why I've been working so hard on anonyatom--it's a truly anonymous atom.  


NOTE: parody

You are truly a high IQ alpha male.

When will you release your new coin?

Please supply (ir-)relevant citations, verbiage, ad hominem and condescension.

Well bitcoin has also rather limited anonymity. I haven't heard about taint of gold before, that is kinda interesting.

Read carefully top to BOTTOM

Ahah!  Looks like my invention of anonyatom couldn't have come soon enough!  Here's more proof of the conspiracy to destroy the fungibility of gold bullion, straight from the Royal Canadian Mint.  They've implemented traceable bullion DNA into all new coins:

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.UylFN1zphg0 (http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.UylFN1zphg0)

They'll sell this to you fools as an anti-counterfeiting mechanism so you sheep feel warm and fuzzy knowing that your coins are not filled with tungsten.  But if you didn't have the IQ of my pet hamster, you'd realize that this is all part of a plot to destroy fungibility so that the coming one-world government can roll out its arbitrary confiscation plan.  

The bullion DNA is a unique micro code that links each coin to the exact batch of gold that it came from.  As I pointed out in my original post, the mint also tracks what scrap gold was used in which batch.  If at any point in time it is determined that some of this scrap gold was stolen or even traded for marijuana, then since your coins will contain illegal gold atoms, they will be CONFISCATED!


Your only hope to escape this totalitarian future is with my invention of anonyatom--the truly anonymous atom.  


My apologies for the insults, but it's all part of a role-playing exercise!  Once again, this post is a parody!!

*facepalm*

Let me guess, you believe in John Edwards and Psychic Cleo too?

The analogy to Bitcoin's serious taint problem fails because most gold owners are anonymous.

It also fails because the percentage of gold that is tracked on a globally coordinated ledger is 0%.

Yes indeed the overzealous continue to be shamed.

Why you guys protest against truth so much. Why not accept reality and leave your delusions behind.

You have shown that you have clearly no idea about what you are talking.

Are gold atoms tracked on a global scale and easily checkable for their legitimate source? No? Then your argument is bullshit.

And there is also no reason why governments couldn't use a white list approach to separate legal and illegal coins. You can't proof that your coin is legal? Bad luck.
Bitcoin Foundation approach anyone? Ever heard of unregistered/blood diamonds, NS-stolen-art etc.?

We already see the tiniest steps and approaches in that regard. If you deposit a large enough amount of bitcoins on Bitstamp, they will ask you where you got them from and if you say mining they will ask you for your specific equipment and a bill for that equipment.

I would like to go on record saying this entire problem has been solved with a new currency called Goldcoin (http://gldcoin.com/) (GLD). In a few years, children will study the great work of akumaburn who picked up where satoshi left off, striving to further evolve his great coding vision.

Once again AnonyMint, how do you expect the logistics of confiscating the coins to work? Your "coin taint theory" states that once all coins are tainted, then they will eventually all be subject to confiscation, correct? I don't see how this can work on a global scale, too many people with BTC, not enough money or personnel to achieve.

I asked you this in another thread, but you just answered by saying that "the IRS will do an audit and then you'll be prosecuted, everyone else will get the message and eventually comply" or something along those lines.

What if you pay the correct tax on any BTC you cash out for fiat? If I was going to launder money I certainly wouldn't use a bank account, that would be dumb. Granted, the IRS couldrandomly turn up at your house and search for gold/diamonds in your basement. But I wouldn't keep large amounts of gold or diamonds in my basement.

How could they even get a warrant for searching, say, the top 100 largest BTC holders RL addresses, if there is no concrete evidence of money laundering? Surely this would cause uproar if the press found out? Are you saying that even if you genuinely haven't done anything illegal, you will still get audited and thrown in jail just for having "tainted coins"??

Oh and nice thread Peter R, sorry for the hijack...  ;D

Logical FAIL!  Clearly your simpleton mind is incapable of grasping the pervasiveness of the globalist elites' watching eye.  

It is true that gold coin owners can buy their coins from Local Gold Coins, or from certain gold coin ATMs anonymously.  But try anonymously cashing out $2,000,000 of gold coins at an exchange without raising a few eyebrows and having uncomfortable questions asked!  

And you naive fool, why do you think the Royal Canadian Mint has added bullion DNA to each new coin?  Or in your zealous haste to defend your "precious metal" did you not see this link:

http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.UylFN1zphg0 (http://www.mint.ca/store/mint/about-the-mint/bullion-dna-8900026#.UylFN1zphg0)

This is clearly the precursor to the global gold coin tainting database.  Since the mint knows the gold inputs that went into each coin, they will be retroactively tainted due to widespread theft in the gold coin economy.  If it turns out that 2% of the gold atoms in your gold coins are illegal atoms due to theft, then the bullion DNA will provide the necessary link in the globalist elites' ledger to subject your precious metal to CONFISCATION!


I don't have time to waste debating low-IQ imbeciles like you who insist on living in fantasy land.  This conversation is over.


And now I must return to development of anonyatom--the truly anonymous atom.


Note: parody

That's what I'm saying, you fool!  Can't prove that your gold coin is legal?  Too bad!!  

Why do you think they've added the bullion DNA to all new gold coins?  It is for TRACKING and for WHITELISTING.  Think you can just "scratch" off that DNA encoding on your gold coins if you later find out they have undesirable taint?  Well, then your coins won't be on the whitelist and they'll be no more valuable than a hunk of lead because no one will want them.  

Gold could never work as money because due to widespread theft in the gold coin economy eventually every atom becomes an illegal atom subject to arbitrary search and seizure by the globalist elites.  

 Note: more parody

Please, for the love of God, stop hanging out on abovetopsecret.com

what innovations does Goldcoin have over Bitcoin?

Peter R,

when I wrote "most gold owners", I hope you haven't forgetting the bell curve and that the "most" will be the smallest owners.

Indeed it is much more difficult for large stored monetary capital to hide in any asset. The best chance will be an anonymous crypto-currency.

Can you waste some more of my time?

---

protokol,

When you transact your coins you will be forced to provide identity of who you acquired them from. If not, your coins are unspendable.

Offchain (e.g. you want to exchange at Bitstamp or Coincase) will be very easy to regulate. On chain is very small percent but they can regulate this by regulating the few pools, and then you can be required to course all transactions through AML and KYC compliant services.

This is all very easy to do and they are well along the way of achieving this.

P.S. I am often suffering very ill health due to an incurable medical condition, and so the past weeks I was basically delirious most of the time. Today I have my full cognitive abilities at hand. If I wasn't terminally ill, I would be running circles around ya.

"Serious taint problem"...give us a break with this tired point.
Fiat has plenty of taint, too. 

It's only a problem if you make it one in your head. 
 

Thank you for the warning. However, I have a few questions.

1) Is any gold atom still the same gold atom from moment to moment? My understanding of one aspect of quantum mechanics is that particles are constantly being created and destroyed in pairs simultaneously. So if an electron-positron pair appeared next to an electron in a gold molecule, the positron could combine with the electron to disintegrate each other, the new electron takes the place of the old electron, the mass/energy of the missing pair being absorbed (to balance everything out). As this happens constantly, every sub-atomic particle would be replace in the gold, and essentially every gold atom has been mixed with every other gold atom in the universe. In other words, every gold atom (of the same isotope) is identical to every other gold atom. NO MIXING REQUIRED.

2) I believe in the multiple universe theory of reality. If there are multiple future universes, then the wave mechanics point to multiple past universes that converge to this moment in time. How can I trust the paperwork trail behind a gold bar if there is a universe that the paperwork is all fraudulent (however unlikely). Isn't the only thing we can be sure of is this moment in time?

Finally I have shown you the light!  There is no escape from the globalist elites' NWO whether it's bitcoin, gold coin, fiat, or diamonds.  There is a way to trace everything.

(Well, except for anonyatom--the truly anonymous atom)

NOTE: Parody

I said more difficult. I didn't say impossible, especially given an anonymous crypto-currency.

Also protecting even just $50,000 per person is acceptable to me. At least we avoid a Dark Age.

I have noble goals. If you don't like my goals, fine go ahead with your Bitcoin. I am not stopping you.

If what you say is true, then it just strengthens my case that gold taint will spread.  But now it spreads across the entire universe due to quantum tunnelling.  Every electron-positron pair becomes an illegal elementary particle subject to arbitrary seizure by the globalist elites' Fermion Confiscation Authority (the FCA).


All that matters is that there's a way for the globalist elites to rationalize anything and ruin your life.  


(well except for anonyatom--the truly anonymous atom).

NOTE: parody

freedom is a state of mind

OK, AnonyMint.  I apologize for teasing you with my thread.  I did it because you've been disrespectful to other forum members and myself on numerous occasions and you've derailed what were productive discussions with incessant fear-mongering about a totalitarian NWO. I therefore question whether your intentions are to help or to hinder.  

You've been talking about some ideas you've had for an improved cryptocurrency for a long time.  Why don't you publish a white paper that specifies exactly how it should work?  If the community agrees that it's a significant improvement, there's a good chance it will be adopted.  

Personally, I think the flexibility of bitcoin is ideal as it is.  It provides privacy when needed, and transparency when desired.  User's can adapt it to suit their needs and we've seen efforts like coinjoin and darkwallet to appease those among us more concerned with privacy.  I don't want to get into a debate about it, but if our future world is a dystopia then there will be a way to screw us over no matter what.  Instead, let's work together to make the world a better place.  Bitcoin has given me a great deal of hope that we can make real change in our lifetimes.  

Yeah that's the thing , he won't.  His goal is to pose problems, not offer solutions.

ok.

thanks.


I refuse to let this defeatist attitude stop me from finding solutions.

It is all math.

Bump.

...

I suppose the highest tech mints could find a way to "seed" their gold coins, perhaps by year, perhaps even by each coin, with slightly varying small amounts of rare elements of lower cost (say Os, Re and even a little W) to establish a custody chain of one sort or another.

I do not easily see any way to accurately test for "conflict gold", as I imagine that most refiners mix in gold from different places for the bars that they resell.  At the kilo-bar level (9999 fine), this would be near impossible.  At the +/- 400 oz LBMA bar level, our overlords could care less about where the Au comes from...

***

I also read (somewhere, maybe at Zero Hedge) that the mints could put a chip in each (RFID)...  Then crack down hard on the Cash-4-Gold places re "Know Your Customer" laws, etc...

 >:(

Better get started stacking early!

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Mahatma Gandhi

The Royal Canadian Mint has begun its "bullion DNA" program for 2014, as I pointed out earlier in the thread.  You can use this technology to trace your gold back to the mint over the web to confirm each coin's authenticity.  


The "conflict gold" gets mixed with other gold in the smelter such that a certain batch of coins would contain, for example, 2% taint that links to stolen property (that was labelled as "stolen" retroactively).  A paper trails may very well exist between the stolen gold and your coin.  [The bullion DNA links back to the batch of gold, and documents show exactly where the raw gold for that batch was procured from.  The raw gold procured from Joe's Cash-4-Gold was later found to be stolen.]

I like the gold smelter analogy because bitcoin transactions are actually very similar.  A bunch of gold (inputs) get melted down, and then recast as new coins (outputs).  You can't talk about "this piece of gold" or "that piece of gold" after it has been melted and recast, but you can say that each newly-cast coins contain x% taint with the old coins.  Bitcoin works the same way: during each transaction, the input coins get destroyed and new (output) coins get created.  Links between coins (known as "taint") spread in the same way that gold atoms mix during the smelting process.  

I liked you point that "overlords could care less about where the Au comes from."  Indeed, all that matters is that its gold or bitcoin.  

Bitcoin is a new technology and it brings up fear and uncertainty for many people.  But if you look for an analogy to something you already understand (e.g., gold), then the concerns start to seem silly.