Bitcoin Forum

Is there a list of people or groups that allow large OTC transactions for fiat? None of this KYC and AML nonsense.

Proper OTC desks like grayscale's service will still have kyc and so on but they won't pull stupid shit like holding your money hostage.

If you want absolutely none you'll have to do proper P2P direct with a private buyer and no middleman at all.

I guess you could start on the currency exchange section here but rather you than me.

I agree that $GBTC is good but I'm not a fan of KYC. It's understandable why someone would choose that option. I always thought of BTC as a peer to peer electronic cash system but why not it be used for Fiat. But thats besides the point.

If a company touches fiat then KYC is mandatory. That's just how it is. That's the law in almost every country.

I wasn't talking about GBTC, I was talking about Genesis Trading which is the OTC company they run. They will have clients waiting to buy or sell.

If you're comfortable dealing with private individuals away from any centralised site then KYC might not be an issue. I am not comfortable doing that. But any sensible private individual who does it regularly would probably ask for KYC too. They might have serious legal problems if they didn't.

Oh i didn't realize you were talking about Genesis Trading. I thought you meant Greyscale as in $GBTC. They have an OTC Trading desk as well for Accredited investors.

Understandable , they want to follow the law. It's in their interest.

When dealing with fiat in most countries you must know who you deal with. In some countries dealing with higher sums of cash is totally forbidden.

I forgot what they were called.

I've seen plenty of talk of P2P trading on Telegram channels. It all sounds a bit alarming to me. Even before Localbitcoins did their own KYC big traders on there were doing their own. It's going to be hard to avoid. I'd rather hand over ID to known companies at least.

Is your objection to the general idea of it or do you have a specific reason?

What kind of premium are you prepared to pay? To completely avoid AML/KYC you'd need to find someone for an in-person transaction and that's going to cost 2% or more.

I didn't realize that dealing with large sums of fiat was an illegal transaction. I always thought about it like , if i have something you want , and you have something i want , we do a fair exchange and we go our separate ways after the transaction has been completed. Isn't that how trade works?


I'd prefer to take fiat if need be.


Anything below 5% is pretty good if it's fiat. Assuming BTC goes to 100k , then 5% of fiat would be about 5000USD , of which i am willing to part with for my sanity.

Nobody is going to do LARGE OTC transactions without verifying who you are. Because nobody wants to get caught assisting money laundering. It makes no sense for the seller to take the risk, unless you are willing to pay a premium over and above the market rate to compensate them for the risk.

Depends on the country. Usually shouldn't be a problem if you do it as a private person, but it might be a problem if you do it as a business and don't KYC people you buy/sell to for transactions over certain amounts.


Make a topic in Currency exchange (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0) or search through that board.

Got ya. Do premium over and above market rate.


I'll make a note of this. Thanks Malevolent.

Anyone handing over tens, hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to a complete unknown with zero idea of where the BTC came from is a flat out nutter. No premium is worth the potential risk. And similarly you might be receiving dollars conned direct from some granny's bank account.

Lots of smaller transactions would be less out there but then you have questions from the bank.

Just passing by and saw this, hope you don't mind me asking stuff. Having never done p2p trading before (everything done through exchange) I wonder how much KYC do people usually ask for. Is it reasonable for them to ask copies of IDs like when signing up to an exchange even if you're just trading with them once? I mean, they'll have that data for pretty much however long they want.

This is because banks are obliged to check your transactions for "unusual/unreasonable" patterns. And they are legally allowed to freeze your account with all the funds on it, or as they had been doing in case of many crypto users and investors in past years - shut down your bank account or refuse to provide services to you.

Yes. That seems to be the norm for volume localbitcoins traders these days and that's totally separate from the site's own KYC. It certainly wasn't the case when I used it in 2013/14 but those were golden and innocent times.

I don't know if there is existing of what you are looking for. Probably, there is none. Because large transactions using fiat OTC will require you KYC, it is a must. If you don't want to comply then switch to P2P using either fiat or cryptocurrency

I'm okay and comfortable in handing over my identity to companies whom I trust, at least I belong to legit one.

Now I don't know which is worse, having your data in an exchange that can get hacked or willingly sell your data or having your data in the hands of multiple strangers. Guess if I'd ever have to do P2P for some reason I'll try to ask relatives first.

It also have its own set of risks but at least I'll know who to hunt down and where.  ;D

Thanks for the heads up. I never knew KYC was a thing for P2P.