Bitcoin Forum

New York lawmakers passed a bill that puts New York at the forefront of a national movement to ban cashless businesses.

From a cup of coffee to a car ride, mobile devices or plastic cards are becoming the preferred, and sometimes exclusive, methods of payment in many parts of the world.

But being forced to pay that way, rather than having the option of using cash, may soon be illegal in New York City.

The City Council approved legislation on Thursday that prohibits stores, restaurants and other retail outlets from refusing to accept hard currency.

The measure puts New York at the forefront of a national movement to rein in so-called cashless businesses: New Jersey, Philadelphia and San Francisco all approved such bans last year, and several other cities are considering similar moves. Massachusetts has had a law requiring retailers to accept cash and credit since 1978.

But New York City officials have also targeted ride-sharing and meal-delivery apps, as well as facial recognition for building entries — all in an effort to blunt the impact of advancing technology on those who are unable to use it because of financial circumstances, unwilling to for philosophical reasons or vulnerable to its darker aspects.

“Consumers should have the right to choose if they want to pay in cash or not,” said Councilman Ritchie Torres, the bill’s lead sponsor. “We are reining in the excesses of the digital economy.”

Under the bill, businesses that refuse cash face fines of $1,000 for a first violation and $1,500 for each subsequent offense. Businesses with devices that convert cash to cards, like those found in many laundromats, are exempt under certain conditions, including a provision that there be no fee for such cards.

One large New York business that provides cash-conversion machines and would therefore be exempt is the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, where many, though not all, concession stands do not accept cash.

With 23 of Mr. Torres’s colleagues signing on as sponsors, the bill, which he first introduced in 2018, passed the City Council by a 43-3 margin on Thursday. A spokeswoman for Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Wednesday that he supported “the intent” of the legislation, but that his administration still planned to review it.

Kalman Yeger, a Democratic councilman from Brooklyn, criticized those who voted for the measure of “overreaching.”

“We are inserting ourselves in the business of business in a way that we don’t have the right to,” he said.

The move to protect the use of cash comes amid a worldwide trend toward electronic payments that is being driven by various factors.

For many people, it is simply more convenient to buy something with a swipe or a tap. Businesses that refuse cash say it is faster and easier for workers to process digital payments and keep customer lines moving. Fans of the cashless approach also say it spares employees from mundane tasks like counting money and limits the danger of robbery and theft.

But critics of cashless businesses say they discriminate against people who lack bank accounts and credit cards, while also raising the specter of hackers stealing personal data tied to digital transactions.

The city’s Department of Consumer Affairs said last year that one in nine New York households did not have a bank account, and that one in five were “underbanked,” meaning they had a checking or savings account but relied on something other than a bank to cash a check. Bronx households, the agency said, were around twice as likely not to have a bank account.

“I worry about the real-world discriminatory effect that cashless business can have on New Yorkers, especially in communities of color,” Mr. Torres, a Bronx Democrat, said.

The prospect of the Council prohibiting businesses from refusing cash appeared to go over well with Maren Berthelsen and Lucia Burns, two friends who were having lunch on Thursday at Mulberry & Vine on Warren Street in Manhattan. A sign near the restaurant’s register informed customers that cash was not accepted, and neither woman was happy about it.

“I think it’s incredibly discriminatory not to accept cash because some people can’t get credit,” said Ms. Berthelsen, a teaching artist.

Ms. Burns, a program coordinator, agreed.

“It is exclusionary,” she said, “because people without means are less likely to have a credit card.”

The National Retail Federation, a trade group, has taken the position that “retailers should have the right to choose which payments to accept and to decide for themselves whether going cashless makes sense for their businesses,” according to a statement by Stephanie Martz, the group’s general counsel.

Beyond that, Ms. Martz said, measures like the one to be voted on in New York City were “a solution in search of a problem since cashless stores are fairly uncommon.” Still, a report from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco cited by the federation showed the portion of transactions made in cash falling to 30 percent in 2017 from 40 percent in 2012.

The salad chain Sweetgreen was among the businesses with New York City outlets that had gone cashless. The company reversed course last year, saying that limiting how customers could pay “had the unintended consequence of excluding those who prefer to pay or can pay only with cash.”

Another restaurant chain that operates in New York City and does not accept cash, Dos Toros Taqueria, declined to comment on the passage of the cashless-store ban.

In City Council testimony last year, Leo Kremer, a Dos Toros founder, expressed opposition to the prohibition. He said that since moving entirely to electronic payments, the company had, among other things, cut down on firing or otherwise punishing workers over cash discrepancies.

Mr. Kremer also said that in considering expanding beyond New York, Dos Toros had picked Chicago over Boston in part because of the Massachusetts law.

Chicago is among the cities that are now considering their own bans on cashless businesses.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/nyregion/nyc-cashless-ban.html

Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?

If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.

Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?

No - they're banning cashless retailers because of the very real risk that if credit card terminals are hacked, or the electricity grid is hacked, the whole economy goes down.

In the UK, we've had several instances of banking IT going down, which means no-one can use the cards from the bank. If you have no cash at hand, you can't pay for food and petrol during the downtime.

You must always build fail-safes into a system - and cash is a fail safe.

If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.

Cash is here to stay for a long time. And i dont undestand hate around it, let people decide what to use

However, going completely cashless does create a problem for poor people that don’t have phones or computers or even credit cards.

This is interesting to me, as there are at least two businesses right near me that only accept cash because apparently they don't want to deal with payment processors like Visa & Mastercard and the fees that are involved.  I don't know of any businesses in my state that won't take your paper money or coins.  That seems very odd to me--whatever happened to "cash is king"?  Why would any merchant not accept cash?

Let the use of cash and cashless mode of payment be options that the people can choose from. Let it be the choice of the people. I quite understand that the retailers feel the need to propel people into the digital era and think the cashless mode of payment is safer for them. But, forcing people to go cashless isn’t a good way to go about it. How will the people who have no access to cashless mode of payment cope? Let it be a choice.

Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

I don't suppose they're doing this to make life easier for illegal immigrants who may not have access to debit cards or bank accounts?

If such is the case, someone could design and rollout a cryptocurrency which makes life for illegal immigrants easier. It could end up being the most quickly adopted crypto of all time, no matter how much electricity it utilized, how many animals were harmed or the ecological disasters it might have caused in the process.

Do stores not have the right or the preference to accept any kind of payment for as long as they are legal?

Cashless societies being progressive leftist movements. It is curious to see one of the most progressive and left leaning states in the entire USA adopt policies which buck the trend. Ditto with leftist progressive california mirroring these anti cashless society paradigms.

More than one in four Americans--27%--reports they hide their money in the freezer.  19% of residents “sock” their green away while 11% sleep well at night with their cash stuffed under their mattress.

As well do not forget, that if you are somehow politically incorrect, often banks/payment providers may refuse to provide services to you. If you have in such case no access to hard cash (or cryptocurrency wallet), you simply cannot live a normal life, as you will not be able to pay even for own groceries.

Cash culture aside, it's not surprising to see places like SF and NYC enacting cashless bans. There is a progressive angle: the argument is these businesses discriminate against the unbanked/underbanked, which disproportionately affects the poor, communities of color, immigrants, etc.

Exactly.  That population is by no means negligible.  Some people beg for their meals or collect pocket change, and how are they supposed to pay for things if society goes completely cashless?

Not only is it cheaper for the merchant but it's sometimes more convenient for some people, plus you have to deal with problems like the power going out or not being able to connect to the payment processor.  What do you do in situations like that--not make sales?  That's crazy.

No - they're banning cashless retailers because of the very real risk that if credit card terminals are hacked, or the electricity grid is hacked, the whole economy goes down.

Cash is here to stay for a long time. And i dont undestand hate around it, let people decide what to use

Most of the time the hate comes from the governments themselves, if all transactions were made using a digital medium then they will have a way to monitor everything that you do, this particular news about New York saying that stores needs to give the option to accept cash as well to their customers is very interesting because it goes against decades of efforts to try to push people to use digital options and it could be the beginning of a new tendency.

This is precisely the same law as in my country (and in any other countries CMIIW). Stores must accept the national currency (in this case, dollar). Since the dollar has two forms, i.e., paper cash and digital, stores must take both as payment.

Thou shalt not reject the dollar!

providing services to receive fiat currencies, is an effort of the government to protect its people, making it easier for the people in terms of payment methods, perhaps this effort to encourage economic improvement so that more smoothly. but I think one day will use a full digital system

It is true that some other countries or places, prefer a cashless transaction because they think that it is more secured and safe. Although it is faster and reliable, you can use it whenever and wherever you want if a certain company or shop allows you to access your accounts and use it as a form of payment. That's not even impossible because our technologies are continuously developing for years and we have nothing to do about it. We need to adopt from the advantages of being millennial that all things in our surroundings are easier to use, means "high-tech". But you've said that the only problem in a digital currency is that it is prone in being hacked. You should also make safe transactions and plans to prevent yourself from being scammed while using a card.

It is actually alright that cash has to be accepted, but we need more options, cash is fine, credit cards and debit cards are fine, back in the day there was check (or cheque, don't know how people write it, but that piece of paper you write money and give to others to withdraw), nowadays we have to actually improve that number and add in crypto to that as well, I know there can't be a law that says "you have to accept bitcoin" because it is both new and governments really don't really care about the bitcoins situation but in order for adoption to increase there needs to be some sort of incentive as well.

Why would a shop that is forced to accept cash would just feel like they should offer option of bitcoin if they don't know what bitcoin is properly? We need to increase bitcoin as an option and not focus on diminishing dollar.

It is said that usually credit cards are being hacked, maybe that is the reason.

Though this would be hard for some since people usually do not want to bring any cash with them so they can travel without worrying with it. It might be the case but they need to follow this new law. It is not that they are not open to new technologies but there is a problem at hand.

It does not matter what any individual thinks or feels reliable but once the government applies any laws and regulations, each citizen have to follow those or they might even need to pay for violating these laws.

Cash transactions are the easiest ones but I feel like those are a lot outdated. There have been such advanced means of payments and why are we yet using cash payments everywhere? Perhaps this might be good in parts of countries where population is in excess amount as there would be a need of quick payments in these situations and I guess New York comes under the same. This might be the reason why government made cash compulsory in these parts of nation.

I am very familiar with this news. Probably, I have read it somewhere over the internet. I really find it confusing why do New York is based on restos and hotels are not accepting hard cash any more. They have to understand that not all of the people are reliant on cashless transactions. Some of the people who still stay in cash transactions might be the people who were scammed, hacked by the digital crooks before and started having traumas using their cashless payment methods. Nevertheless, their approval for this law is really a very helpful one. Traditional cash must always be in present even as the alternative.

You cannot just exclude those people out , cash has been there for ages and it is right only to keep it in the following future because let's be honest guys 7.53 billion is the population and only 3.1 billion active smartphones are registered (considering how one person can own as many as they want) so more likely more than half of the people on Earth still live by the old times.

Some of the people who still stay in cash transactions might be the people who were scammed, hacked by the digital crooks before and started having traumas using their cashless payment methods.

I am very familiar with this news. Probably, I have read it somewhere over the internet. I really find it confusing why do New York is based on restos and hotels are not accepting hard cash any more. They have to understand that not all of the people are reliant on cashless transactions. Some of the people who still stay in cash transactions might be the people who were scammed, hacked by the digital crooks before and started having traumas using their cashless payment methods. Nevertheless, their approval for this law is really a very helpful one. Traditional cash must always be in present even as the alternative.