Bitcoin Forum

I am not very experienced and now, something has happened that I don't understand. I hope somebody can help me understand what happened:

Somebody was going to pay me, on an Receive address generated by Electrum. (This was a purchase Local Bitcoin Exchange, and the receipt of his payment was delayed at his end. I cancelled the trade, when I hadn't received the BTC during the allocated time on Local Bitcoin Exchange. This was a mistake by me, of course

The guy said he'd send me the BTC anyway, assuming the payment arrived.
So I pasted the Receiving address from Electrum in the chat, on Local Bitcoin Exchange.
I closed down the computer that Electrum is running on and went to bed.
This morning, the guy (who is in South America while I am in Europe), had pinged me.
He said he sent to outstanding BTC to the address I gave.
However, the money has not arrived.

I realise that he could be lying, but he is a top rated trader of high volumes on Local Bitcoin Exchange. Let's assume he was honest for the time being.

• When I open Electrum this morning, the Receiving address is something different than it was before! Why?  
• Is the Receiving address I gave him yesterday no longer valid now?  
• Electrum wasn't open when he presumably sent the payment. Is that a problem for receiving it?

What has happened here, from the BTC / Blockchain / Electrum perspective?  [/b]

(I realise this is my mistake for cancelling the trade, instead of Disputing - it was late and I was very tired, not thinking clearly and got stressed. I understand that the guy might have lied or otherwise tricked me, in using such a slow method of tranfer, so please advise me only on the Technical aspect of this - worst case: I paid EUR 550 to learn this lesson.)

Check the address on the block explorer to see if the coins are there.

You simply ask him for the TX id generated by Electrum or send you a screengrab of his wallet with the outgoing transaction.

Three reasons could happend;

1) he sent to wrong address
2) he didnt send it, scammed you
3) he used a low value of satoshi/kb and is in mempool, but it still should show in electrum wallet as unconfirmed

in bitcoin you can reuse an address as many times as you want but it is not recommended. instead you should only use each address once (receive one payment in it, and receive others in another address). to do that wallets such as Electrum change the receiving address as soon as the previous one received payment. that is why the address you see in your Receive tab is different now.
however your wallet still has that address and its key and it can be reused and if you had received any coins in that address they are spendable.
you can click on View from the menu and select Show addresses to see a new tab that contains all your addresses.
also your payment (if you have actually received it) should show up in your History tab with the date and amount and if you double click it you can see more details including the Transaction ID which you should have received from the sender in your chat.

Thank you! I checked Block Explorer but I'm not sure what I'm looking at. I can't immediately see the BTC being there.
Is it safe if I post the details here? If I mention the sum and the Receiving address, would somebody be able to help me check and interpret?

Thanks for an excellent explanation! Got it! :)

Thank you! So I understand the responses so far, to say that:
1. It doesn't matter whether Electrum was open or not - the payment should reach me when I open Electrum the next time.
2. The old address can still be used.

The only thing that remains then is (a) Check the Blockchain, which I asked for help with, if it is safe and (2) Ask him to verify that he sent the BTC by a screengrab of his Outgoing transaction.  

Yeah, it's fine. It's a public data anyway. Either give the tx id or give the address. You can do it yourself via Blockchair or other block explorers.

If he did send the money, there's no need for a screenshot or anything. The tx id would be more than enough to check the transaction yourself. Unless the TX was dropped from the mempool and not confirmed.

a "picture" is not going to prove anything. you have to ask him to send the "transaction ID" of the transaction he claims he has sent to you. it is going to be in hexadecimal format with 64 characters. you can then check if you can see that ID in your wallet (history tab) or not. you can also search it in a block explorer. and it would look something like this (a random example i chose from the recent blocks):
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/06053bd50ee8f8269dc3c24aca0e9b9f2267a038fa33a37802e8a4a4a038bc4f
1) this status tells you if the tx is confirmed (is included in a block and final or is in the mempool and not-final) https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q/146/87716
2) a list of receiving addresses where you must find your own address to be one of them
3) the corresponding amount of bitcoin that went to each address which must be the same amount that you expected
https://i.imgur.com/ZT3DDiv.jpg

@Hanna,  sorry about that. a short self assessment question(s)

based of series of suggestion's & advice by top trader's and mod. of this forum. pls, take time to follow some of these step's if, you are unable to retify the problem.

i will advice you to calm down & review the following info's from your end. sometime's we do stupid thing's when we are anxious. Something similar happen to me about 5-7 months when i started selling stuff on bitify. i made some sell, got a notification msg from bitify support team that i should take to the necessary step's to update the payment info's on my file.

I jumped up, full with excitement about the whole stuff, copied an old address which i cannot actually say if, it's associated my old blockchain.info or localbitcoins.com account. but, i guess i have use same wallet in the past year's  for receiving of btc.

So, i copied the address, updated my payment info's on bitify after about 48 hour's which was suppose to be the expected time for my btc to get into the indicated wallet. i became anxious , i log-in to a different wallet associated with my blockchain.info, copied a different address, log-in to my bitify account & updated my payment info's again for the second time.

I follow same step and updated my info's for the 3rd time since, i did not receive any payment so, i taught probably bitify were scamming me or somethig is wrong with the 1st,2nd wallet address perhap's this could be the reason.

Finally, i contacted bitify support team & i was told that they already sent the bitcoin into the 1st wallet. Now, the second phase of the battle began because i can't seem to log-in to that account. It's one of my old account but, for some reason i lost access to most of my credential's when my asus notebook developed some fault.

Here is a link where i had requested for support from this community. Luckily, i found someone from this community who assured me that the money is still there and that is associated with an old account. He also gave me all necesary info's to assure me that there is no scam from bitify,blockchain or localbitcoins.com

*****Reference Link associated with my issue  : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5155736.msg51565052#msg51565052



********Some personal assessment question for you******+**

Few question(s) that might be of help toward's retifying this issue :

- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one?

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)?


I guarantee some of this question(s) could help you indentify the source of the problem. Is easier to believe that the buyer might have scammed you while, the problem might be from a slight mistake from your end. I'm not trying to take side with the buyer because i know what it means to loose hard earned btc. Mine is still lying idle in that wallet because of my silly mistake.


Note : in my own case, the coin is still lying idle in that account since, i've lost access to the wallet in question

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

Hanna, for start check your balance in Electrum, 550 EUR is not small amount and if your wallet is sync then you should see that your balance is changed and you should see that transaction in Electrum history tab.

These are things that can be proven very easily, do not pay anything, regardless of the merchant's alleged reputation. After you post the transaction link and determine that your receiving address is indeed part of your wallet (click address tab in Electrum - do you see that address?) we can conclude what really happened.

There are two things you need to do here.

Firstly, share the address that you sent to the other party. We can confirm whether or not he is telling the truth and whether or not he has sent coins to that address.

Secondly, confirm that the address you sent him is part of your wallet and you weren't victim to clipboard malware. In Electrum, either check the "Addresses" tab to see if the address is there, or use the console to type ismine(youraddresshere).

More specifically: copy it from your chat:

The clipboard hijacking could also have happened on the seller's side.

Just to be clear: do you mean LocalBitcoins.com?

If you're in Europe, why are you buying Bitcoin in South America? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Thanks everyone and sorry I disappeared for a while. I should be working really!

Here is the recipient address I gave the sender.
This was in the Recieve Tab of my Electrum yesterday night. He wrote that it's the address he sent to, including the address, for confirmation.

1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5

Sum in Bitcoin: 0.07592263

I double-checked that it's what I sent to the seller in the chat on Local Bitcoin Exchange. It is also what he said that he sent the payment to, via chat on Local Bitcoin Exchange. This guy gives every sign of being honest and decent and a chatted a bit with him while waiting for the payment. I just don't get scammer vibes from him at all, even though I realise anyone could be tricked. His high score on Local Bitcoin Exchange also indicates he's honest.

It's in fact worth more than I thought in EUR, it's EUR 611. I paid him in another currency.

Now I will read all the responses since my last comment, very carefully to understand it, then follow up.

In the meantime, I would be super grateful for help by an experienced person, to check the blockchain.

I understand what you are saying about the Transaction ID and I will ask him for it, if needed. It's still really early for him, due to time zones and it would be good to know the verdict of Blockchain first!

This is the first time I've had problems with a transfer, so from that perspective it's suspicous.

The address 1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5 contains 0.37700799 BTC.

This was received in two transactions.

The first was at 19.37 (GMT) yesterday for 0.23615234 BTC.

The second was as 20.39 (GMT) yesterday for 0.14085565 BTC.

If he said he sent 0.07592263 BTC to that address he is either lying or has made a mistake. You should therefore ask him for the transaction ID of the transaction he says he made.

You should also follow my advice above to double check that the address 1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5 is definitely part of your wallet.

- Do you have multiple wallet on localbitcoins.com or blockchain.info?  Answer: No. Just one Local Bitcoing Exchange account - I'm not sure what it's address is. The missing payment was sent to an Electrum address.
- Is the wallet in question an old or new one? Answer: The Electrum wallet in question was set up in 2014 and has been only sporadically used. The Recieving address is constantly refreshed in Electrum though.

- Are you sure, you actually log-in to copy this address when you sent the wallet address to the buyer or you just copied already saved address from your computer?Answer:  Yes, I double checked. I could not have copied another address and I compared before I posted. (See screenshot).

- Finally, do you normally access your coin both on mobile & computer (notebook/desktop...)? Answer: Only on Desktop - I don't have a mobile Wallet.

Thank you for sharing your story, SoldiersWithLittleFaith! :)

Thanks for checking! I recognise those figures you list, because I made two transfers earlier. The time also checks out.
I see the Address in the Addresses section of Electrum.

However, neither of these is the transaction I made with him.
Any transaction he made, would have been later in GMT - around Midnight or 01:00 GMT, by my reckoning.

Okay - that clarifies the situation.
The transaction he's talking about, was not made, and I can confront him about it.  
Odds that he made a mistake, seem pretty slim to me.
I doubt Local Bitcoin Exchange will help me, since the transaction was cancelled and outside their site - but it's worth a try.

I messed up and it seems he took advantage of it. The problem was, it was late at night and the World Remit transfer didn't take <1 hour as advertised, but something like 3.5 hour and this made me lose my calm and act stupidly. I guess 611 EUR goes a long way in Colombia/Venezuela... Maybe from his perspective, it's worth skimming a European who doesn't have her wits about her.
 

How 550 EUR from the first post turned into 611 EUR? And can you clarify if this money has already been sent to the alleged seller and what was used as a means of payment? I don't understand why you agreed to the transaction outside of exchange, and why you pay for something in advance (if I understood correctly that the money is already lost)?

https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/address/1JW9NJneiHVqpvDgcNah4FLXRF62Mw1Np5

Some scammers are obvious, but others are experienced con artists.

Those accounts also get sold, or hacked.

The difference of the EUR figure mentioned is just because I sent the money in SEK (Swedish) not in EUR. When writing here, I wanted to mention the price in a currency that people are likely to be familiar with. SEK is not a big currency, so  I just did a very sketchy calculation in my head,to give a rough estimate. Then somebody specifically commented on the sum, so I decided to double check and it turns out I was off and the value in EUR was a little bit higher than I thought.  Exact price for anyone who is really interested, was "Buying 0.07592263 bitcoins for 6,885.00 SEK". This is approx. 611 EUR. Sorry about any confusion.

The payment method he asked for was World Remit, which was new to me. Register and then use your Visa/Mastercard to send money. The seller said the transaction with World Remit would be complete in 1 hour. However, as it turned out, it took close to 4 hours. His window for the transaction, was something like 1.5 hour. Additionally, it was late at night, I was not at my sharpest and aware I needed to go to bed. When the window was nearly up, I was warned by Local Bitcoin Exchange, made a stupid gut reaction, i.e. closing the trade even though the transfer was already made.

As for me handling this the wrong way: I knooooooow!!!  I started out by explaining that I realise that I did everything wrong and that this may be the price I have to pay for learning that lesson. I am angry with myself and feel very stupid.


Yes. I really thought I was dealing with a nice Christian guy who was trading BTC to make a living in Venezuela. I even chatted with him a bit while waiting for the transaction. I am normally very good at telling bad people from good, but of course, I am not God, so I don't know what's in people's heart!

Sometimes CIRCUMSTANCES makes an otherwise honest person behave dishonestly. Here, I had already transferred the money to him and cancelled the trade by mistake. Maybe, sitting there in Venezuela, with all the challenges the people there are facing,  it seemed to him like "money from the sky", simply too good to reject.  He could accept the money and not send any BTC, and probably get away with it. He might not even be sanctioned by Local Bitcoin Exchange. It's between him and his conscience.

I have now asked him to provide the Transaction ID, Re-send the BTC or refund my money
To be continued...

@Hanna,


Ok, i see there are lot of senior member's who are will to help you out here.

Pls, i advice you follow what   o_e_l_e_o had suggested earlier because there is something fishy here & we need to figure out this before is too late.  Everything, seem to be ok from your end. 

Note : i hope is nOT what i'm thinking here. Pls, it is possible for you invite him/her to join the conversation on this forum? Atleast, i know some of the senior member's would have loved to ask the buyer one or more question(s)! And,base on your perception of the buyer, he/she should be willing to go to any length in order to resolve this issue. I know the deal is on LBC but, this forum also offer extra support as long as it's related to crypto-currency.

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

Just a quick observation,

Guyz never send or SHARE sensitive info's like bank,cc info's or wallet address via Chat - telegram,whatsapp ...this is very risky.

*In this case, i believe both parties chatted through LBC .


Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

In this case, contact WorldRemit as soon as possible and ask to try cancel a transaction :


Or even better contact your bank and explain what happened, I believe they can get the money back. This is not a BTC transaction, which in most cases is irreversible; the whole thing works differently when you use banks/cards.

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

People in this forum are simply amazing. This thread was so informative, everybody so helpful and I have learnt a lot!

Here is the explanation to what happened:
The guy was not very good at English, so he was using Google Translate to read my comments and translate his own responses.
I did not realise this; If I had, I would have used very simple language, and read his comments more carefully, to figure out what he really meant.
He meant to ask me to confirm the BTC Address to send to, again, even though I already given it.
He had not in fact made the transaction but went to bed, awaiting a final confirmation from me, which he thought he had asked for. Combination of language problem and lack of question mark just made the comment turn out wrong for him.
It sounded as if he had sent the BTC and wanted confirmation that it had arrived.
Because of the time differences, I was asleep when he was asking about this,  and couldn't respond. We had already agreed he would send the BTC when the money arrived at his account. He just wanted to be 100% sure about the address.
Then he was asleep as I got confused by his comment.
Now he's up and trading and has sent me the BTC. :)
Just as I thought - the guy is very nice and completely trustworthy. My female intuition is not so good for love, but for business, it works!

I was particularly happy to be trading with somebody who's using BTC in a "live" situation in Venezuela. Apparently they use it there to buy everyday things + it's enough of a struggle for them, with American blockade, political turmoil, hyper inflation and whatever else is going on.  
I like this guy so much, I'll buy from him again.  His rate was very good too.  I'll just be aware that the World Remit is not always as fast as it ought to be.
 
BIG THANKS TO EVERYBODY WHO HELPED ME LEARN NEW THINGS TODAY! :)

.

Great to see you found the members in the forum helpful and am happy to know the issue has been sorted out.

I hope you stick around and become part of the growing friendly community we have here ;)

I'm really glad that you had a good outcome, but use this as a learning experience. For every honest trader out there, there are an equal number (if not more) of users who are trying to scam you, or will turn in to a scammer for the right amount of money, or are using a hacked or stolen account, and so forth, and this could just have easily gone the other way. If you are trading with someone new whom you don't personally trust, then consider using a trusted escrow, or breaking the trade down in to smaller amounts so you can't lose all your money at once.

Happy we could help. Welcome to the forum.

in future use a different address from the receive tab for every transaction. since you only reveal an address to a specific user for a specific transaction there can never be any confusion about whether the money was sent or not. any money sent to a particular address can be credited to the only person you revealed that address to.

do update your electrum install as well. old versions are not safe. only download from electrum.org.

also lbtc has its own wallet and escrow service. it holds the sellers bitcoin in escrow while transactions are being done. so there was no need to receive money off site during a transaction. you can always withdraw the coins to your wallet later. you got really luck that this person you were dealing with was not a scammer.

i'm happy for you.

Pls, becareful when trading . also pls, spend some of your leisure hour to get yourself familiar with the beginer's guide.


Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

That's actually a good extra check, to prevent losing funds to clip board malware.

It leaves one question though: why didn't the payment arrive on the address you gave him?

The language barrier and the different time zones are what caused this misunderstanding. Although it is very clever from the seller to ask for a confirmation of the address, in such cases it would be even better to sign the address. Those who become victims of clipboard malware often blame the seller for cheating on them, though they may be completely innocent.

@Lucius, year back i got a trading tutorial from one hacker, that copying pasting & recopying & pasting over again  for the 2x or 3x usually render most of these clipboard malware useless or prevent hacker's from manipulating this address. i taught the is  good idea so i always copy paste my wallet address over & over again whenever i want to  receive coin but, i never got any means to confirm if, this actually work since, i never had such an attack.

Thanks
Soldierwitlittlefaith

I am also happy that your problem has been solved. When I read your post at the beginning I was worried because I had created a Localcoin account recently. And I couldn't continue my trading because I needed Fiat fast and I didn't have good offers. For which I withdraw my coin and went to another trading platform.
I have seen how the Localcoin Scrow works just like CryptoWay are very similar. Always complete and verify the transaction.
Thanks for supporting this Venezuelan trader. And is true I am also Venezuelan who uses crypto to buy basic things.

I think Loyce was asking why the BTC in question still hasn't appeared at that address when OP stated that the transaction has now been made.

I don't see why that would make any difference. Clipboard malware detects that what you have copied to the clipboard was a bitcoin address, and alters it so when you paste a different address is pasted. I don't see why copying and pasting several times would change that behavior, as every time you copy your real address, it will be changed to the attacker's address before you paste it. The only way to be 100% safe is to double and triple check the entire address you have pasted (not just a couple of characters at the start or end) with what is displayed in your wallet.

Soldierswitlittlefaith, clipboard malware is very old threat and most security software will detect/block/remove such malware. Of course, hackers are constantly trying to make improved versions that are difficult to detect, so you need to make address checks before every transaction.

Hardware wallets can help with that, as each transaction must be confirmed by pressing a button before which is possible to verify that the address on the computer screen matches that of the hardware wallet device. Of course, the check should include more than 3 or 4 first/last characters, because back in 2018 there was a base of 2.3 million addresses used by hackers, and the swapped addresses can often be very similar to legitimate ones.

---

It is possible that Hanna is decided to use a new address from Electrum, not the one originally mentioned. In any case, only she can answer that question.

No, i don't see him making use of new address base on how he described the issue about the buyer to have sent two transactions to his wallet address after he went to sleep and the wallet  Hanna provided does receive two transactions (on 2020-02-26 @ 20:38, 19:34 0.14085565BTC and 0.23615234BTC respectively). Besides, it not possible for the buyer to send him 4 transactions while the first business is yet to be executed.