Bitcoin Forum

I created a thread  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229352.msg53934645)a few days ago in the gambling discussion board. Basically we were discussing the issue of KYC with online Crypto casinos. The topic kinda derailed into a conversation about the issue of privacy and why people don't take their privacy seriously... My argument was  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229352.msg53953369#msg53953369) that people don't hear about why privacy is important and how to take care of their privacy both in the online and offline world neither on the media or on Internet. An average joe only comes across mere VPN ads and nothing beyond that...  At that point, I realized we don't have a dedicated board for Privacy-related discussions and suggested for one in the thread... @o_e_l_e_o kinda agreed with me. Hence why this thread... Should we have a dedicated board for privacy Privacy, Security, and Online Safety? If not why so?

edit: update from Privacy only to Privacy, Security, and Online Safety thanks to @o_e_l_e_o for the suggestion.

I believe what most people say when we talk about asking for a new board is:

"Do we have a big influx of posts about this subject that justify a board just for them?"

It was the same with the lightning network, mobile wallets, etc...

Yes, I believe privacy is an important subject and maybe we could give more visibility to posts talking about it, but do we need a board just for them? I don't see quite many posts about it.

The topic of privacy would soon split into various subcategories, of which could easily be planted in the various boards strewn across the forum.

KYC/AML in relation to Gambling has its obvious place.
KYC/AML in relation to Bitcoin has its obvious place.
Privacy in relation to Bitcoin has its obvious place.
Privacy in relation to Gambling has its obvious place.

etc.

Threads 🧵 to do.

what is a vpn explained for morons?
do i need a vpn?
hold my hand and teach me how to use a vpn.
teach me to use tor
teach me to use jackass or was it hide my ass. [cant remember].

now if all those threads took off and had a few thousand posts. it would still be short of a board.


at op can you come  up with more  ideas for threads?

i do think we could use a primer on the subjects above.

eventough i'm not the OP, i do think there are more topics that are heavily under-discussed on the forum that could have a place in a potential privacy sub-board... However, i don't think there are quite enough topics to open a sub-forum as it it...

For example:

• Which wallets have tor built-in on how to configure them
• How to configure tor for other wallets
• Tor pitfalls (like dns leaks)
• What are 5 Eyes, 9 Eyes, & 14 Eyes Countries... And other problems with VPN providers
• What's a Sybil, am i safe from it when using tor?
• How do mixing services work, and what are their potential problems
• Coinjoin much?
• KYC and KYC-less trusted services?
• A good list of privacy-centered altcoins and their pro's and con's
• problems with giving KYC documents to untrusted partners
• Why i don't want my fingerprint on my identity card
• PGP, signing and encryption
• PGP and email, what's the correlation?
• Verifying signatures of wallets like electrum and bitcoind core
• encrypting for dummies
• keeping your seed safe
• anonymous reshippers
• Is chinese firmware safe on my cellphone?
• Setting up, updating, persistent storage, electrum... With Tails OS!
• ...

Tor + vpn + monero (xmr) = pretty much all you need.

Tails OS comes with TOR by default if linux is your thing and it should be if you are obsessed with privacy.
https://distrowatch.com/table-mobile.php?distribution=tails

I know it goes way deeper than using just TOR (like encrypting every post you send) but average people don't really need that much privacy.

Tbh even a basic setup like bitcoin + vpn will provide more privacy than you'll ever need. Since these are the basic stuff which everybody knows and they work fine, I don't think there is a need for another board.

Which part of my sense is exactly false would you like to explain it further?

I also never said these were a complete solution. I said that's what most people need.



And yes they do work fine alright.

Everything changes when you try to buy/sell illegal drugs/cp or trying hire a hitman or selling credit cards or murder the president.

No amount of privacy will keep you anonymous in these situations. The best privacy practice is avoiding the dumb stuff.

@philipma1957 There are so many threads currently sitting in the beginner and help section which really belong in a privacy board. E.G this thread  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221341.msg53721968#msg53721968)which I created a while ago it's about privacy, It doesn't belong in the board it is currently in... News about data leaks etc could be posted in the privacy board and so on... Stories like of Jameson Lopp could be shared there, how he created an identity^[1] (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/technology/how-to-disappear-surveillance-state.html) which isn't linked to him... I don't think its a subject which doesn't have enough stuff to talk about as pointed by others as well...

---

source:
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/technology/how-to-disappear-surveillance-state.html

Maybe not a board just for privacy, but certainly something like "Privacy, Security, and online Safety" would be useful. There are plenty of threads which would fit in to this category which are currently spread across the forum in boards they don't really fit. For example, on the front page of Beginners right now we have threads about reporting phishing ads, autosaving log in details, tools for catching phishing, KYC, 2FA, bitcoin privacy and anonymity, VPNs, Discord phishing, and info stealing malware, all of which would be better on a privacy/security type board. There are quite a few similar threads which start on Beginners and get moved to Off Topic, where they are then only seen by spammers. On the front page of Off Topic right now we have threads about disabling autofill on browsers, protecting your data on old devices, Brave browser, antivirus, and password security.

That's 14 threads just from the front page of two boards. If we go back a few pages and look in other boards I'm sure we would find plenty more to rapidly fill a new board. Time and time again we see people being careless with their online security and privacy. A dedicated board doesn't just help to keep all these topics together, but would also be beneficial to the community.

For me, the biggest advantage of privacy is to stop Google messing with my searches.

I do use the Tor window in the Brave browser though.

Come to think of it, I just remembered some Wordpress theme forum which allows users to make their posts private, mainly for troubleshooting issues.

So for instance, a staff would request for the Wordpress login details to troubleshoot, and the user complies, marking the post as private (viewable by staffs). So other users would see the post "Marked as private".

Pretty neat.

I think core problem is that people don't care about privacy at all.
The fact that today most exchanges accepted strict KYC is also related with crypto people who don't give a f.ck about privacy.
They made job much easier for regulators.

I would be active in topic or  board related to privacy in bitcointalk forum.

I'm not sure a section dedicated to the "privacy" alone is really needed as of now, but as mentioned above and in other threads, the topic of security is too important for the community to be treated as off-topic or as a secondary subject.
The lake of safety in cryptos is a real concern for adoption.

Do think 99.9 % of the forum member here can correctly run a vpn and a bitcoin core wallet.

I think a lot more then 0.1%  can not.

But I don't think a board is a going to have enough posts.

Also Privacy and security get complicated  if a thread has bad info  about

vpn's  or tor or whatever the poster could face issues.

I don't know if I want to explain how to hide your tracks in any detail on a thread.

I'm fairly certain that the reason for this is not a lack of information (we live in the age thereof) but rather a lack of motivation or incentive to do so. A significant portion of forum members don't even understand basic properties of Bitcoin. An even higher percentage of the forum are merely here to post for their signature, which means that even though they might osmosis some knowledge pertaining to Bitcoin, most of it is left unused. Stumble into a couple Bitcoin/Trading Discussion or Economics/Speculation threads and you'll no doubt catch those such users.

You'll find general answers, vague answers, even shit that's just straight-up wrong.

Privacy is very important for some people because it will be related to their personal data. this is very sensitive.
Some large exchanges require KYC by surrendering their privacy to confirm that they are genuine.

If you really have a problem with privacy and don't want to be seen you can use Tail OS as said by @mindrust
Tail OS that is installed on a USB flashdisk and can be used anywhere will make your privacy safer.

Brave browser is bad because they broke their initial slogan by having their requirements on mandatory KYCs on people who want to receive BAT. That browser is fast and smooth, I like it but in terms of privacy I don't.

If I want to use Tor, I would directly go to Tor browser, instead of Brave browser.
Using Google products is bad idea because by doing that, we self-expose ourselves and our data to Google's huge database that can be sold out or compromised by hackers on bad days.

It's not Brave's fault, the withdrawal platform (Uphold) is actually requesting for such. You can see this concern addressed on their FAQ: (https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032158891-What-is-KYC-)

Looks like the recent discussion is going a bit off-topic.

The idea of a new board for this topic is good, but I won't hope too much. Last time I checked in my local board, the local board update suggestion is not yet implemented/updated by theymos. So, it's probably on the last of the priority list.

I can confirm this. KYC is a no no. They provide you everything like adblockers and other stuff to hide your tracks from the search engine bots but then they force KYC on you to get your tokens. Opera is a better choice than Brave I think. It has a built in VPN too.


Even the best VPN can leak your information. I remember NordVPN was hacked too and it was widely promoted on this forum and everywhere else.
https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/21/nordvpn-confirms-it-was-hacked/

Sometimes you are just unlucky.

Someone should open a poll about this request IMHO, if there are lots of votes, administrators will certainly accept to create a subsection for sercurity/privacy questions somewhere in the forum.

Threads on these subjects already have misleading or incorrect information in them, as do many threads on every board. Thankfully there are plenty of knowledgeable members around to clarify and correct misinformation, and there is no reason why a Security and Privacy board would be any different.

Agreed. A couple of stickied threads at the top of a Privacy and Security board explaining some basic concepts, much like we have with the stickied thread about wallets in Beginners and Help, could help to address this.

It's not a true VPN, just a proxy server for the browser. It routes your traffic through a server hosted by SurfEasy, whose Privacy Policy (https://www.surfeasy.com/privacy_policy/) includes logging "Temporary usage data" and "Internet and data traffic, such as destination website or IP address and originating IP address". I wouldn't use it.

I would not mind a sticked thread  or two about privacy and security somewhere on the board.

They go hand in hand.

Wallet safety
Password safety
How anonymous do I want to be.
Browser choices.

Privacy routers
Privacy devices

Would be  nice to know where to look.
Since all of the above it scattered about the forum. It would be nice to find it more quickly.

Thanks o_e_l_e_o for linking to this thread. @20Kevin20 started a discussion (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5244308.0) on how bitcoin has changed over the years and how bitcoin is no longer bitcoin due to privacy issues. There were a few typical "There are no more true bitcoiner" posts. In a hurried, emotional response, I went on a rant about how bitcoin's role isn't just privacy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5244308.msg54350289#msg54350289) but that we should focus more on additional features and bitcoin adoption. Excellent posts by @o_e_l_e_o (Here) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5244308.msg54351441#msg54351441) and @20kevin20 (Here) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5244308.msg54351977#msg54351977) made me realize that we are not making it clear enough that how privacy can actually be maintained (with a bit of effort) and that we all should be insisting and using non-KYC outlets without the fear of being labeled negatively.

I ended up lamenting how @Theymos has shown tacit approval (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5244308.msg54359231#msg54359231) of a "default privacy" coin like Grin and maybe we should have a dedicated sub for privacy related issues. This is really very important. A subs requirement shouldn't just be based on how many posts are there but how important it is for Bitcoin. As we ended up agreeing, Bitcoin advocacy should go hand in hand with privacy advocacy.

Its a great idea to have have an educational, privacy focussed sub where we can talk about everything from PGP to backdoors in hardware (Why US govt is so uneasy about Huawei network equipmet). Its understood that people cannot always delete their footprint, yet they should have the requisite awareness as well as knowledge to make sure they have a life away from the prying eyes of surveillance state. Only then it can become a norm to believe that individuals have a right of privacy which is as fundamental as the right to life and liberty. These are enough reason to have a privacy related sub. Like @mocacinno listed here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5230782.msg53973913#msg53973913), There are excellent topics for discussion on this topic.

PS: I am not sure if @Theymos looks at these posts and thinks, "God, Do i have to do everything?" "When will these people grow out of my forum and do something themselves, if ever?" :P