Bitcoin Forum

Somebody is getting more aggressive and abuses his power frequently:

Removing this post is an obvious sign of abusing moderation power because there is nothing offensive or any misinformation presented in there. Somebody is doing what he can to guarantee nothing meaningful is ever said in the technical subforum just a bunch of boring applauses about how 'great' and 'genius' he is! Very disappointing for a forum established by an anonymous believer in decentralization and freedom of speech.  >:(

I wouldn't surprised if it was deleted for being off-topic, but without any sort of context its hard to know for sure. Ergo, its removal is in no way "obviously" moderation abuse. Wonder why you didn't include the context.

Here you are, This is the context:


Satisfied Now? Op has included two links, I analyzed both. He has suggested re-considering Drive chain and Ln, I did it. Anything wrong from my side?

I guess the good news for you is that your post got increased publicity. People who otherwise wouldn't have seen it have read it, and reflected on your points. This is one of the results from sanctions and censorship - it creates an increased awareness of the issues that you are trying to suppress.

You're talking about this section?


What you're talking about sounds like it belongs in Altcoin Discussion.


I can see your post being both on and off topic. Even though you are speaking for gmax (which is a bit weird and you could be totally wrong in your assessment of his words), you are addressing the first part of the topic, which is "about criticisms from the past (on Drivechain) from respected Bitcoin experts." The parts about Ethereum and your own "one-way sidechain solution" are off-topic.

Some moderators take the approach that so long as a post contains at least one on-topic element, even if the rest is irrelevant, then the post as a whole is deemed to be "on-topic." Some take the reverse approach. I don't think there's an absolute standard here.

I suppose you'll have to wait for clarification from gmax (or achow) as neither of us actually know what he's (they're) thinking.

I strongly disagree with your idea of on-topic/off-topic.

It is absolutely impossible to have a technical discussion to remain solely jailed in what OPs say or think! It is technical for the god sake, and it comes with analysis and debates and surprises and descriptions and alternatives without such elements what would be a technical discussion after all?

Somebody starts a topic about LN and Drivechain experiments and bitcoin scaling ... Greg or Andrew expect what? People praising them for LN and saying nothing else? Just sending greetings for LN? Why?

I think it tends to go something like this:


*Ordinary, sane user starts topic about any given subject*

[aliashraf] *token reference to the actual subject, then POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS, ASICS, POOLS ASICS*

[Zin-Zang/Khaos77]  *token reference to the actual subject, then POS, LN=BANK, MINER COLLUSION, POS, LN=BANK, MINER COLLUSION, POS, LN=BANK, MINER COLLUSION, POS, LN=BANK, MINER COLLUSION*

[franky1]  *token reference to the actual subject, then CONSENSUS BYPASS, DEV CONTROL, LN=BANK, CONSENSUS BYPASS, DEV CONTROL, LN=BANK, CONSENSUS BYPASS, DEV CONTROL, LN=BANK*


Almost every damn topic.  You literally can't help yourselves.  Basically, all three of you sound completely obsessed about the same old shit and derail topics left, right and centre with your mindless, repetitive dross.  Change the fucking record already.  I'm not surprised the mods delete that crap on sight.

Well, so you are ok with deleting that post? Congrats! I suppose you would vote for Donald Trump in November. Don't you?  :D

Firstly, I'm not responsible for other users' behaviors, not commenting on your claims about them but you are obviously exaggerating. Mocking users because they are opinionated on crucial topics is inappropriate. Please behave.

Secondly, pools and ASICs are not jokes and I have the absolute right to bring up them whenever relevant. Although they happen to be relevant in this special topic, I didn't bring up anything! I just quoted Poelstra essentially!

Please don't make a smear campaign against me or other users, out of this thread.
My deleted post is quoted in op, your personal attacks against me or other users are not relevant and prove just how bad is the situation with Maxwell and his shills.

Why is it "bad" that people with an all-consuming agenda aren't permitted to incessantly derail topics simply because they have "an axe to grind (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229733.0)"?  That's exactly what you're doing.  And that's what's not allowed anymore.  Deal with it.  Or feign innocence, stick your fingers in your ears and pretend it doesn't apply to you.  Whatever floats your boat.  You posted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229733.msg53954667#msg53954667) in the topic when that rule was announced, so don't act like you weren't warned.  Whether you recognise it or not, your posts are clearly starting to annoy people, including the mods. 

Further, there are precisely ZERO serious, credible or realistic proposals to ban, restrict, disincentivise or otherwise remove either ASICs or Pools from Bitcoin.  These things, hate them all you want, are part of Bitcoin.  As such, it would seem there is not a great deal of scope for discussions about their removal in the Bitcoin Development & Technical Discussion sub.  If you want a coin without ASICs or Pools, you may wish to consider discussing it in a more suitable subforum where it would be more appropriate.  There are many altcoins that make grandiose (read: horseshit) claims about ASIC resistance and limiting pooling pressure, so I suggest you go preach to the converted and stop irritating the people who have dismissed you as a "crank (http://web.mst.edu/~lmhall/WhatToDoWhenTrisectorComes.pdf)".

Derailing this topic is what you are doing, right now. It is so disgusting arguing with a person like you but I'm angry enough to destroy you right now:

It is all about money, isn't it? Greedy people like you and your mentor are thinking about money, just money aren't you? Your disgusting censorship and politics shit is just about "defending" bitcoin reputation as being ideal, blah, blah to have prices skyrocketing and you become rich enough to buy a yacht and get skinny models onboard, don't you? Sure you do!

I have quoted a deleted post of mine above thread, it is decent and solid and your hero, Maxwell the "genius" has deleted it with no reason.

Don't "derail' this topic by accusing me of being some stupid person who has nothing to say other than complaining about pools, etc. My post and merit history speak. Just a few days ago I have made your mentor absolutely mute debating the economic concept of "bitcoin value" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229380.msg53966209#msg53966209) and the importance of PoW and how stupid is saying things like "miners are a party, one should not trust". Believe it? Satoshi is gone and bitcoin has been left in hands of a bunch of "genius" people who have figured out after consuming so much brain energy that miners are a party you should not trust!

In whom we should trust? You stupids, with your failed LN shit? A "liquidity hungry" piece of garbage that is vulnerable to childish attacks (https://medium.com/@ayelem02/congestion-attacks-in-payment-channel-networks-b7ac37208389)?

I think your era, Maxwell and company era, in bitcoin will come to an end sooner or later and bitcoin will grow up to become what it deserves to be and historians will highlight this stupid claim of you people with exclamation marks and students will make jokes about it. :D

I just have checked a couple of his latest post and I can see almost all of his posts are in Development and Technical Discussion boards although he posted less frequently. I think critic is not the case here because it is allowed here to criticism in a polite way.

Thank you for not meaning to offend me.  :D
But it is not about me, it is about my specific post removed in cold blood. :(

Look, some posts for some people are just like their newborn child, carried for months and labored with pain. For me, it is the case more usually. I don't write for fun or for being paid to do so, I write because of my love and passion for bitcoin, it is what corrupted people and their shills have no clue about.

I know you are a great guy, please don't pay attention to Maxwell's smear campaign and accusations against me. He does it because he is desperately failing to address the most crucial problems in bitcoin and he thinks he is too BIG to fail.

Create your own thread then and set the topic to what you want it to be. Post your newborn child there.

Sure. But my post is by no means off-topic, it is the point. I've forwarded enough material to make it crystal clear that my post is neither offensive/FUD/etc. nor off-topic. But sure, I'd consider your suggestion.

By the way, I felt a bit offended by you generously sending merits to a troller who mocked at me and other users in favor of brutal ripping of users material in compliance with the latest "executive order" by GMaxwell ...it is ok, never mind,  just saying.

No idea what you're talking about but in general I don't expect you to like every post I merit nor does merit necessarily mean that I agree with the post.

Same feeling here, a topic with "LN" in the title is opened you can start couting the seconds till one of them appears and starts the endless debate trolling of LN is bad, POW is bad etc etc . But at least with Franky1, he has cut down a bit in the last period, even on boards he is not banned (yet!) the others ...
There are two kinds of criticism: constructive criticism and shit throwing, and what they are doing is worse than the second, they are not debating anything, all they are doing is repeating the same stuff over and over and over and over.

And look what we have here, in this topic, Even if this is about censorship, they can't help themselves, they must dedicate 95% of their post not arguing about the forum policy but about LN and why BTC is kaput cause we're not listening to them.

Nobody will be fooled with such arguments. A troll comes around mocking at me (the one who has been wrongfully censored) accusing me of being a stupid nob who has nothing to say other than cursing pools or ASICs then attacks other users blaming them why they have standpoints about LN or PoS or anything other than what the great Maxwell likes to hear about and when he gets the appropriate treatment another troll (you) comes around and says "look at them! {?} they can't help themselves stay focused on forum policy."

Who brought up LN in the first place, genius?

Look! We are all grownups here. I know what's going on here and you know too,  most people know. Let's not play dirty anymore.

It is Meta subforum, a post of mine is deleted with no FUD, no misinformation, no personal attack while being exactly on-topic by a person who is known for his harsh attitude towards anybody not aligned with him and being too much opinionated almost in any topic in bitcoin sphere. It is all this topic is about, you got something to say about my post? Say it! Otherwise, just shut your mouth and don't derail this topic by telling tales about how bad franky1 is or how you or anybody else feels about LN. Your mate told shit about it and I've already refuted his arguments, nothing more left to talk about.

Oh the irony, how about you keep your advice for yourself and we wouldn't have this topic in the first place?
It's quite amusing, people fighting an imaginary censorship are the first to advocate for one to be imposed, do you take yoga classes for this?


https://i.imgur.com/58AYtx4.png

First:

Second:

Satisfied genius?  ;D

Keep telling yourself that.  You think just because people don't bother wasting their time trying to convince you what an obstinate, audacious and ultimately misguided fool you are that you've somehow won the debate?  Get over yourself.

I was going to start a new topic in Reputation, "Greedy DooMAD versus the Three Stooges", where I point out that all three of you topic-derailing wingnuts have, at some point or another, accused me of wanting to "get rich" by supporting blockstream's supposed "agenda".  Incidentally, it always seems to happen when you've run out of arguments and have nothing left to offer up.  Anyway, I was going to do that to demonstrate just how easy it is to avoid derailing a topic.  Lead by example and such.  But you know what?  Screw you, I'm going to ruin your topic and see how you like it for a change, because it's not like you're ever going to learn, even when shown how.  So here goes:

When I get old and people ask me what I did during Bitcoin's formative years, I'll tell them I tried my best to keep this place sane while it was set upon by a small but determined number of mentally unhinged fanatics.  If I tell you your idea is a load of mindless drivel, I'm not saying it because I'm chasing some mythical paycheck or anticipated future profit.  I say it because I believe integrity is important.  And that's all forms of integrity.    

First up there's personal integrity, where I have to be intellectually honest with myself and say that even if I have what I believe to be a great idea about how Bitcoin should move forward, I'm probably not in a position to single-handedly turn an entire ecosystem on its head to implement whatever changes I might find favourable.  Even in the unlikely event that I ever thought the same way you do about ASICs and pools, I would have to be an egomaniac to believe I can simply undo something that numerous people have invested time, effort and money into in order to nurture and develop.  You don't just snap your fingers and undo the hard work of others.  In fact, you can't in this particular instance.  But you seem to think that, not only is it a piece of cake to completely decimate what is effectively an entire industry in its own right, but there are seemingly no moral implications to consider either.  The only "good" is your good and anything else is unquestionably evil.  It's that black and white to you.  Reasonable people, on the other hand, may have misgivings about pools or ASICs, but don't believe themselves to have either the power or moral authority to simply wipe them from existence as though they were nothing.  Who the hell do you think you are?

Then there's the integrity of the Bitcoin network itself.  If changes are to be made, they should never endanger the security or decentralisation of the network.  You demonstrate time and again that you have literally no concept of what those words mean.  I don't need to start a "smear campaign" for people to see what kind of moron you are.  They have eyes and are perfectly capable of seeing it for themselves.  You would gladly sacrifice the security of the network for even a hint of a chance that your fantasies would come true.  They won't, though.  

Cry about it all you want.  This is not censorship.  People aren't trying to extinguish your unique and precious flame.  They're just trying to talk some damn sense into you.  But you flagrantly ignore them and keep spouting dangerous, ignorant nonsense.  Then you act like the victim when mods delete your inane, whiny potshots meagerly disguised as casual conversation.  You still genuinely believe that what you saying is important, but sadly you are the only person who seems to think so.  And on top of that, you can't find a manner in which to express it that doesn't piss people off.  To say that's not a winning formula would be an understatement.


Other assorted thoughts in the topic:


I'm sure you're very proud of your inbred mutant circus freak-show offspring.  Doesn't mean the rest of us have to pretend to care.



I'm not a developer, but I'm fairly sure that introducing much larger problems in the mistaken belief that it might fix something is not how development works.



Topics that are important to you personally != crucial.  Perhaps you're confusing it with the word "crusade", since you definitely seem to be on one.



I think history is written by the winners and you are one of life's losers.  It won't remember you at all.

Oh, so you are pro in trolling and you need the classic treatment, gotcha it.
Firstly, it is not censorship to ask trolls not to derail a topic. Irony is having a "legendary" (WTF?) who doesn't understand the difference!
Secondly, it is not "imaginary" censorship it has happened and hung up in front of your eyes:

Not a post of mine!

It is not about LN, it is about the post being deleted and the context. A user asked for the context and I responded very carefully.

Stay focused on the question or go find another thread to show people how productive you are: Is the deletion of the post under consideration justifiable by any measure? How is that?

You are just ruining your personality.

Oh, come on! Kidding, yes? What Integrity?  :D
I see no sign of integrity in abusing power and having zero tolerance for diversity.

You are wrong:
It is the 21st century and it has been a while that history is being written by historians. cc: Donald, J Trump :D
Secondly, guys like you have not won shit, you are just foolishly hopeful, it is not gonna happen because you don't know what to do right now, just hanging around, mumbling "everything is ok", "bitcoin is great enough", "I (Maxwell) am genius enough" at the same time that you run such shameful smear campaigns and abuse of power to censor anybody who "is not with you"

Back on topic, it'd be nice if the notification reveals which mod removed it.

At least we could bring up the issue to discuss with him/ her rather than playing the guessing game or accusing the mods altogether.

Also, does the "Report to admin" function in PMs only notifies theymos?

I cannot find how i reached the link to "Trisectors" (http://web.mst.edu/~lmhall/WhatToDoWhenTrisectorComes.pdf). It was probably a reply from Doomad. In the context of all the hard problems different devs try to solve regarding bitcoin, It is important for even the smartest people to keep in mind that they don't do, or don't seem like doing things that matches this quote from that hilarious trisectors paper:

This is good warning and absolutely hilarious. I am not implying anything but its good to have the ability to reconsider and laugh at ourselves at times.

In reference to the OP, the quoted post probably got deleted because of the political nature of the post where it talks about LN and also tries to explain on what Greg is trying to say in his email etc, and your conclusions based on discussions you may have had with him. Its the Technical discussions board and obviously isn't the right place to discuss "opinions" about the scaling work being done on bitcoin, important as it already is. They have maintained this policy of "stick to the technical topic" quite religiously in the section. With the complications involved in any concept on bitcoin/ LN, there is no dearth of posts that lead to rampant confusion. On basis of this alone, it is imperative that someone committed to bitcoin is the mod on that board.

Next time this happens on a tech topic, you can always post stuff like that in general bitcoin discussion by making a reference maybe. Overall, it reflects badly to trivialize work being done by hundreds of devs without offering commensurate and comparative work yourself. That too on the technical board meant for "Development". ::)

Sorry, but I don't share such a sense of humor with you while I agree that it is good for everyone to take some time discovering laughable points  of their own personality. It is especially a very good recommendation for junior programmers who are feeling pro just too much. :D

Anyway, announcing something as being a trisector problem is not a good scientific practice as long as it has not proved to be of the same category as trisector.
It would be just crazy to give such power to anybody to deliberately classify whatever he or she can't or doesn't like to approach as being trisector.

It not only reminds me of stupid trilemma assertion made by Buterin a couple of years ago^* but also is actually what Greg Maxwell and his paws do mean by using this tag, trisector.

They claim:
"It is absolutely impossible to have bitcoin both decentralized and scalable at the same time, so, whoever dares to speak of a scaling solution is compromising the security/decentralization of bitcoin and should take some time and laugh at himself for being such a confused/ignorant person."
No comments.

Who says discussing LN is political? Given it is true, which is not, the whole thread should have been deleted or moved.

As of your idea about how important is coding versus discussing/advocating and the way you look at the technical subforum, with all due respect, I don't think so: Coding is not a big deal and technical discussion is not a weak alternative to stackexchange.


^* Let me tell a joke: while Buterin has retracted from it both in practice (Eth 2.0) and on twitter (by stressing on it as a hard problem and not an impossible-to-solve one), in bitcoin community some people have adopted this false claim as something obvious and a canonical argument of their discourse.  ;D