Bitcoin Forum

It depends if you are ready to pay tax in the future or not...

Yeah it's very worth to taking care of our anonymity even if you don't using for illegal things.

There are many problem if you give your KYC to other people or any website, such as :
1. Using / giving personal information can attract criminal to hack your account. Usually many account only make password from his personal information, like his full name, born day, or maybe email. With your personal information they can using that's data to try hacking your account

2. Imagine if you already giving your KYC for untrusted or scam project. This project can use your personal information to make a new project and scamming other people money or any illegal purpose. After they successfully scamming people, they will run with the money, and you can get caught by police or FBI

There also another thread explain about Why KYC is extremely dangerous – and useless (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221497.0)

If you care about your anonymity, you care about your personal information. If it worths or not caring about it it's only up to you. If you don't mind that many entities may know your personal data, go ahead and be careless. But, in my opinion, that would be a huge mistake. Your personal information should be personal.

I'd like to bring up one extra point in favour of as much anonimity as you can get:

What if someone bad knows you hold x BTC (or any altcoin). He knows crypto seedphrases are seldomly kept in a bankvault at the bank, but usually reside somewhere in your home. I wouldn't want somebody with a big baseball bat waking me up demanding the seedphrase of my wallet and threatening to hurt my daughter or my wife if i don't comply.

KYC-exchange's databases get hacked on a weekly basis. If you don't cover your tracks, it's only a matter of time before some criminal close to you gets his hands on your address AND is able to track that you've withdrawn all your funds from the hacked exchange to the same wallet, and the funds never moved again... So he'll be able to conclude you hold x amount of euro's or dollars worth of crypto coins... Nothing is stopping him from using this info to rob you (violently if needs to be... He needs to find a piece of paper with some words scrabbled onto them, or he needs a password or pin to unlock your wallet... You need to be awake and afraid to give this info to him).

If you try to give your KYC info to as little actors as humanly possible, and always use a mixer/coinjoin/anon coin to hide your tracks, it'll be a lot harder for a criminal to get your address... And if he has your address he won't know how much crypto you hold, so he has no clue if it's beneficial to rob you, or if it's a waste of time...

If you don't use it for any illegal purpose and you don't care about paying taxes, I think this will be fine, you don't need to worry about it. Typically, cryptocurrencies will be used for large transactions and for dealing with people with geographical distance, this will reduce transaction waiting time as well as avoid taxes and fees. But any transaction used for tax avoidance is illegal, meaning you have to remain anonymous.

Of course it is. Privacy should be a fundamental human right, and you shouldn't be willing to give it up just for the sake of convenience. I also do nothing illegal with my bitcoin, but I am still very careful and very strict with my privacy. Almost everyone in the world is strict with their privacy in some form or another, but for some reason all sense goes out the window when it comes to sending KYC documents to complete strangers online.

The argument that you don't need privacy if you aren't doing anything illegal is also known as the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument. Essentially it says if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about if everybody and their aunt sticks their nose in to your personal and private information. Which is of course utter nonsense. If you have nothing to fear, then why not post under your real name? Why not share your real address and phone number? Why not share your email addresses and their passwords? Why not share your cloud storage accounts and their passwords? Why even have curtains on your windows? Why even wear clothes? After all, you've got nothing to hide, right?

Nonsense. It doesn't matter whether or not you have anything to hide or whether or not you are doing anything illegal. Privacy is a basic right, and you should protect it.

You might want to have a read of this topic, and my reply to it, for some more information: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5214200.0

Being completely anonymous is no easy task, and requires a certain amount of knowledge with complete commitment to that goal. Let's say you use Tor, coin mixers and never give your real identity anywhere on the Internet - and then one day for some reason, make a cardinal mistake and access the Internet using your real IP address.

In this case, the whole anonymity operation becomes worthless if someone tries to locate you/find out your true identity. However, I think anyone who is somehow involved in crypto should maintain a certain level of privacy, because we are all potential targets of online hackers, but also of possible physical attacks.

There are documented cases where some people were robbed and even killed because they publicly shared information that they had a significant amount of BTC. There are far more of those who have been victims of various online attacks, quite targeted in the sense that it can be concluded that they are conducted by professional hackers searching for their victims through forums and various social networks. Therefore, it is important to keep your profiles low and not brag to your friends and acquaintances about dealing with crypto unless you like to live dangerously.

But there are some cases that you have to comply the requirements of your local exchange regarding KYC, you have no choice but to use them when you convert your crypto to your local fiat. Unless, you will use some P2P transactions to exchange your crypto, and this option is sometimes too risky. Maybe just submit your docs to legit merchants if you can't avoid the KYC thing.

You wouldn't be doing anything illegal, that is understandable, but others will, they'll try to steal from you, take your coins, steal your information, pose with your identity and they can only be successful in all these if you are careless about your anonymity, if you care less about your privacy and present your personal data to them all because you feel you have nothing to worry about, afterall doing nothing illegal, are you?

Privacy and anonymity is so important in this modern world, even your phones, computers and other electronic gadgets are no longer devices you just alow anyone operate without bothering, there are certain information that should remain with you and just you alone, your private keys for example, would you make it available for others to see, just because you're a "clean guy"? You'll lose everything you have in that wallet if you do so.

I have been using peer-to-peer exchanges for years and have never had any issues. BISQ in particular has has (as far as I am aware) a grand total of two transactions which ran in to issues with scammers performing chargebacks, and they responded by removing the implicated payment methods so this is no longer possible. Compare this to centralized exchanges which have literally thousands of reports of accounts being locked, accounts being hacked, coins being frozen, coins disappearing, coins not being credited properly, unannounced KYC requirements, KYC documents being hacked, KYC documents being sold, exit scamming, shutting down, servers being hacked, etc., etc. I would argue that centralized exchanges are far more risky than peer-to-peer ones.

What would you classify as a "legit" merchant? Coinbase are probably the biggest bitcoin related company in the world. They were actively selling their customers' private information to third parties without their knowledge or consent. Binance have been hacked multiple times, both for coins and for KYC documents. Being "legit" means nothing.

It depends on lots of factor. If you are a country where BTC is illegal (like me), I would say it's very much important to be untraceable. Anytime government may start investigation and you will find youself in heavy trouble.
Moreover, it's always better to not share your public holding. As someone else pointed that yoy may become a target of criminal which we have seen couple of times before too. However, if you are using crypto for no purpose than paying someone which isn't illegal, there's no need of such much anonymity.

Who are you to be in the need to be anonymous.

A spy? a dissident? or something else. If yes then it's recommanded.

If not and you live a normal life I wouldn't recommand it to you. Because you will end up paying more taxes the day they will find about you. And they always catch you.

If you think those are the only usecases for privacy ( being a spy or being a dissident) you won't mind if i ask you the following privacy-invading info:

• Your name
• Your address
• Your phone number
• Your birthdate
• How much money is in your wallet right now, where did you get it and where are you going to spend this money
• The complete list of your bank account numbers and a big record of all transactions made to/from these bank accounts
• A list of valuable items in your house

Will you give me the answers? No? I tought so... You'd have to be really careless if you'd answer these questions...
Why woudn't you give me an anwer to these questions: simple: because this would invade your privacy, and they put you at risk for being robbed. It's nobody's business who you are, how much money you have and where it's stored... Why would you make an exception for digital cash?
If you give away your KYC info to anybody, and you don't mix/coinjoin your coins, anybody will potentially know who you are and how much funds you hold... Not an ideal situation.

Fun fact:

There are people who are paranoid about anonymity, but share all their life on social media platforms like facebook. They scream about how it is dangerous to pass basic KYC, while making, for example, a selfie for facebook/instagram with new 65`TV with a comment "how good it is to have a salary and birthday at the same day"  :)

Nonsense. Do you browse any illegal sites online? If the answer is no, surely then you will have no problem posting your entire internet browsing history on your Facebook page for everyone you know to examine? You just said so yourself - you aren't doing anything illegal, so there is no need for privacy. Why do you post on this forum under an alias and not your real name? By your own logic, the fact you are trying to hide your real name can only mean you must be trying to do things which are illegal, right?

What has paying taxes got to do with anything? If you are worried about the tax man catching up with you, then simply pay all the taxes you owe. This changes nothing about why you should maintain your privacy.

That's the problem that I am thinking about. What if in my country there is no p2p exchange!?, what if I can only convert my crypto to local fiat on a centralized exchange that requires KYC!? what the solution!? explanation please! anyone!

3 angle, where are you from? There are probably a few decentralized exchanges from your area that allows you to trade crypto to fiat that you are not yet aware of.

Check out the list of P2P exchanges https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/dyclf8/list_of_bitcoin_persontoperson_p2p_bitcoin/

You never know when some weirdo on the internet will start targeting you for things they’ve made up in their delusional minds due to their own miserable lives. Restricting what you let be known about yourself can protect you from other users’ mental illness, even if you aren’t involved in anything illegal.

Privacy isn't the same as tax evasion, privacy means you select who you trust, and exchanges and other companies are known to be untrustworthy with how they handle user data. So, you can totally have privacy and still report your crypto holdings to the government and pay taxes if needed. Of course this is less than ideal because government databases can be hacked too or they can use this data against you in the future, but this is better than being 100% careless about your crypto privacy.

If you can do it without badly compromising the smooth running of your life then it's a no brainer. There's no point in giving it up if you can easily avoid it. Once it's gone, it's gone.

At the same time there's a balance. I've seen people looking at giving up 10-20% of the value in crypto they're trying to realise dicking around with gift card resales or dealing in cash. I'd prefer to retain more and deal with a small number of reputable companies who will know my ID. And all your obsessiveness can evaporate with one slip up.

high.

it is my first reply / post on here, but i do want to weigh in. i cant nt weigh in. this sh!t eats me alive...

privacy, you better take that serious. There is not a law, in any country which specifies you have the right to privacy.
To ignore it, because you dont use illegal sites, thats utter nonsense to tell people and a crap rule of thumb.
Companies like google, yahoo, etc. Are bigger, more financcially powerful than shell, texaco, etc...
Because???

Your data is worth more than oil these days. I am not going into discussion here with anybody. believe me or educate yourself
better on this topic, because i believe "you" are seven years behind. "so catch up - yall slow - escargot."

Maybe the documentary "the great hack" will scare you ignorants straight. i ffs hope so, watch that thing please.
You wont be sleeping that day. You will be changed forever.

About securing your ass:
Usually a proper vpn is where it starts, next to not using windows. that was never ment for online. its an office product.
But still, i suggest to checkout ProtonVPN, it has a really really good free option. binaries for all distro's, os's, droidTurds.

the payed version is better, ofcourse and still very cheap. but what you get for free - it is fenominal.
A proper, good, secure no-nonse vpn service. As free member, you ride along because proton understands even me and you
need to protect yourself, and basically use the paying customers cash to let you , us do that.

Their servers are in switserland, so not any agency in the world can touch it.
If you like that, than also get protonMail ;) free aswell. it will protect communications like no other will.
also available on all platforms.

if you need more anonimity you can use tor, or better even: t.a.i.l.s.
download iso, burn, boot. done. You have a live-bootable tor enabled linux desktop, focussed on yur anonimity and privacy.
tails stands for: The Amnesiac Incognito Linux System.
Occasionally i use it, than all TX going out will be instantly recognizable a tor-traffic.
Some might even find this by itself suspicious - so you need to think of a trick to open a tunnel, than (re)direct tor-traffic through it...

either way, on linux, unix, w32/64, droid, apple...get a VPN it really is mandatory.
even if you cant really care, you are a saint - someone else shouldnt peek at what you do! point.
than sell what they know about you against the highest bid. how can someone not care?

i cannot understand this. it is really the wrong attitude.

Now say, if you need to comply with such and such service, site, whatever and you have to provide some details
like mentioned in this thread: name, surname, address, phone, license, registration, urine sample...

a vpn can still be used. I am from the netherlands, i use dutch ip addresses all the time - i can choose from
many, if not all countries. I even use a dutch ip as entry point for my tunnel, i come out at yet another dutch ip.
Even if you dont or cant - whatever!

With a VPN you still are hiding yourself, your system specs, browser specs,
analytics cant get to you!!! thats soooo important.
it is THE most important i'd say since 7 or 8 years back. Protextion against analytics.
For some, it is LE - but they will be protected against both or be in jail {^-^}

again, watch "the great hack". remember the name: cambridge analytics.
they toppled governments - like many many many. with use of analytics, manipulating users with "personalized ads "
mindWarped, corkScrewed their heads, hypnotic suggestively fed cookies and pet them on the back until their target was reached - B4NG.
onto the next.

let me give a shocking or even a "i cant believe you guy" hint:

england out of the eu. it was a test, performed by cambridge analytics. to show how much power they have.
trump as the circus leader, was the goal. they have the power to get that funking joker in the white house.

you think someone who has no money, owns factually one hotel / appartement building - instead of what he tells: the half west coast...
a below average iq , billions in debt, and is just a marketeer, a talker a sales person wouldd make it to the white house?
h3lln0. not. never.
hiring a morally corrupted company who using analytics as a weapon against their own people just barely did the trick... lol.

One woman, not the least - human right activist, with some serious curicculum vitae told before a judge:
what we do, abusing analytics data from facebook, google, etc.
should be registered as a weapon: it is psychological warfare.

she showed a map of arizona orso, with blue and red. Most was blue - but should be red for their goal.
the interviewer asks: what if the bblue stays? she said: well we keep going until it is what we need it to be?

// mumbling in myself.. "omg - the world, all you too - seriously need to get up to par. this sh!!t happened years back."

they had like 40M x 5 companies of user profiles, and each profile has 5000 target points?
you , me... 5000 points to influence you,to make you do what they need, want, require. or just to funk whicha.
No stopping them, until they get it done. While "you" don't even know it... let alone notice it.

please do not think, or say that privacy is ot important.
until YOU are the owner of YOUR data, best watch-r-back.

the great hack.
watch that, before going into discusssion with me.

i am used to alottttt. this one shook me off-balance. things are further ahead than i thought.
let alone what the world thinks. the word cant handle the truth, "the great hack".

Thanks for reading,

~ Joe.

That's not quite accurate. They have servers in many countries all around the world. They are headquartered in Switzerland, and therefore subject to Swiss privacy laws.

ProtonMail is good, but if you want complete protection for your communications then you should really be using PGP.

You can either use Tor-over-VPN or a Tor bridge to get around this.

A good VPN is a good idea, and I use one 100% of the time I'm not using Tor, but it is not 100% protection as you are suggesting. You still have to completely trust your VPN provider to not be monitoring or deanonymizing your traffic.

yes it is important to trace your identity and if possible remove from the database of the holder. whether you like it or not, some scammers do trade information of people tru the dark web or with companies willing to pay huge for such exchange. Ever since i have gotten different attacks on my emails, i have decided to stop joining suspicious campaigns and Airdrops because they are the likely possible way of exposing information here.

Snowden once compared privacy to free speech and the time has proven that he's 100% right. Data analytics became very valuable and this process will continue.

https://i.imgur.com/irYdCex.png

There are so much possibilities for attacks if someone (maybe your opponent) knows information about you, he can destroy your carreer (job, politician) your relation etc., report you to an (corrupt) goverment if you have a critical opinion of their policies.
But also for political purposes like rigging elections or damaging a company.

---

Most points were already brought up, like protection from scammers, company greed (selling analysed data about you) or identity theft (KYC).

Important point, bad privacy protection will result in an high vulnerability of the famous 5$ wrench attack. If that attack happens to us, our coins will be gone:

https://i.imgur.com/BB9KHLW.png

And most robbers aren't nice people, we don't want them to be in our house.

7 years in the game, getting closer to 8. Haven't done illegal stuff but I'm still taking care of my identity. You don't want me to ever link your personal data to any of your accounts, right? Well, then take care of your identity and don't let me find out who you are. Simple as that.

The thing is, I personally think preserving your identity isn't of much help at all if you only do it when using cryptocurrencies. I've seen people use VPNs and Tor and all that shit for a tx and then turn them all off and wildly browsing any website they encounter and using the least privacy-focused apps. If you want to preserve it, then do it all ways possible or it's not worth the headache.

I personally think it is certainly worth it to keep yourself anonymous. Your personal data is worth a lot of money, why give it away for free? Why let a crazy dude be able to link your data together to find something you may not even think about?

I'm going off Google, Facebook and everything else. Fuck control, I want to be under my own and I do not want to encounter these slowly abusive corporations anymore.

I like being fair: if they can censor my posts, then let me censor my identity.

I have to disagree with you on the bolded part. People should be free to give up certain levels of privacy as they see fit. They should weigh the pros and cons of giving up some amounts of privacy and decide for themselves. You can potentially get benefits for giving up some amounts of privacy to certain tech companies, such as personalization and efficiencies.

There may also be some instances where giving up privacy may allow you to "get lost in a crowd" and actually result in decent amounts of privacy versus taking extreme steps to maintain privacy may attract additional attention and someone may look for and find mistakes in your attempt of maximum/absolute privacy.

Agreed. The best option is just to not give away your personal details to anyone - social media sites like Facebook and Instagram and corporations like Google are the worst offenders, and should be avoided wherever possible. If you absolutely must use these sites, then have an entirely separate device for doing so, and keep all your crypto related and other sensitive activities away from it.

Great! Here are few resources to get you started replacing privacy-invading sites, programs, software, apps, etc. with privacy respecting one:
https://prism-break.org/en/
https://www.privacytools.io/
https://www.reddit.com/r/privacy/wiki/de-google

For me it is worthy to take care of a persobal identity. More specially if you are working online, it is better to be anonymous so other people or any bots could not have any records about you. That is why, I am not into KYCs that other exchanges and wallets are offering. Or even airdrops and bounties. Just think of them that they could use your personal information illegally any time. It is always better to be safe. Prevention is always better than cure.

Coin join transactions are good for your privacy. Your privacy, in turn will depend on how you mix your coins with Coin Join and how you use your coins after mixing. There are two wallets that use Coin Join transactions, Wasabi and Samourai, but I have my own assessment that Wasabi wallet is better.

Wasabi: https://wasabiwallet.io/
Samourai: https://samouraiwallet.com

Theymos has his shared opinion on privacy: [Guide] Decent mixing methods (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146241.0)

We are all willing to manage our funds (USD, CAD, EUR, whatever) via apps, your web browser. If anything Blockchain as it is, is a security solution to government regulated currency going digital itself in a sense. I am new to the environment and this is actually a big reason I am getting into it.

The right to privacy is not just for criminals. It's important to protect yourself. The way I anonymize BTC transactions is with incognito.org. Better than mixing by miles.

Edit: first post. Hi everyone!

The main problem is that it is almost impossible to remain anonymous.
In addition, anonymity does not always imply that you will engage in gray schemes or something criminal.

It all depends on your goals. If you don’t want anyone in the databases, if necessary, to calculate you and where you live, then you should think about it.
Of course, not everyone has access to these databases, but different things happen in life.
Someone will need to wipe even their footprints in the sand, and for someone it will be enough not to leave their personal data anywhere.

Better to be a bit 'paranoid' then with sheep-like attitude 'I don't care, and I don't have anything to hide'
Edward Snowden and Julian Assange are not persecuted for nothing.
Even if we can't be 100% anonymous we can use some tools for protection and reduce using G-tracking things.

The purpose of bitcoin and the cryptocurrency market is to create an anonymous market where people can exchange with anyone without having to go through the central bank. So if you do not commit illegal acts, I think the anonymity absolutely necessary.
Besides being anonymous for your safety, imagine that you have 10,000 BTC and some criminals know it, which is definitely not good.

It's worth everything, you can go over board with the privacy concept. Big data is always willing to offload your info for a quick buck, also you have to ask yourself who are you trying to remain private to? If you say governments for example you can only do so much, they have many more resources, time and money to get what they're looking for. However you can make their work more difficult by using tools like wasabi and routing transactions over tor for example, this is just one of many ways.

Been reading through all the posts on anonymity and privacy. If you are involved in crypto or bitcoin, privacy and anonymity is generally needed up to an extent. In my case, I wouldn't say I am completely anonymous but can partially be called so. I have never uploaded any pics of mine nor do allow anyone to upload my pic in any of the social media platforms (inc whatsapp) and have never revealed the real name of mine anywhere around in terms of social media platforms. I once had a defunct facebook account (without a pic and a fake name) which was deleted 6 years back and so on.  ;D

But to the contrary, I don't use a VPN since I am really not willing to hide what I am doing to my ISP provider. I have an official twitter, keybase and an instagram account linked to the forum name but neither of them are related to my real life. Only 2 or 3 of my real life acquaintance do know I am literally involved in bitcoin and cryptocurrency and other than that none of them really does know what I do over the lengthy leisure days.

I don't really trade much but majority of my bitcoin earnings and savings are being used for global transactions in order to import and export stuffs in and around the country. I would compare myself with L from Death Note anime (I have 2 separate identities which aren't interlinked to each other and are completely different from each other)

As Lucius pointed out, boasting about ourselves and our involvement in crypto to our friends and acquaintance will probably end up in a death threat (just kidding) ;D but I wouldn't trust any of my friends or acquaintances with my personal info on bitcoin.

If anybody is worried about their identity leaks, data leaks, etc. and are thinking on how to save themselves from these issues, I bet they'd go for anonymity first. That's because keeping your data online or in the hands of these untrustworthy companies makes you vulnerable towards the fact that these companies will just use it to be sold to other companies for some USD (even cents). Now, if you believe that your information and data should remain transparent and you don't need anything to hide from anyone, then you may also choose not to go anonymous but that's something I'd never prefer to do.

This woke me up since I never thought this might actually be possible even though I don't hold that much crypto yet.



Also, I never thought of the negative implications of KYC before also.

Yes, you need to take care of your anonymity especially when you are doing KYC with some third-party services. Some exchanges ask for KYC and verify it through some third-party services which you do not know how safe it is! No problem if you share your information with the genuine organization that secures your data safely.

I would recommend trading on the exchange where KYC is not required. Some of the exchanges like Binance (https://www.binance.com/en)(up to 2 BTC), Bitfinex (https://www.bitfinex.com/), Coinswitch (https://coinswitch.co/), etc do not ask for KYC and you can trade anonymously on these exchanges.

Can I ask why not? I don't know which country you are based in, but the majority of ISPs the world over keep tabs on what their customers are doing, which sites they are visiting, etc. Using a VPN which isn't linked to your real identity in any way (and therefore paid for in thoroughly anonymized bitcoin) is a good way to prevent this if you don't want to use Tor.

It is impossible to know which organization are "genuine" and will store your data securely. Once your data is on their servers, you have no idea who has access to it, who they can share it with, the physical security of their servers, the digital security of their servers, how they encrypt it, how they store it, how they transfer it, etc., etc. Even "reputable" companies like Binance and Coinbase have leaked user data. There is always a risk when you complete KYC.

I personally don't use VPN to stay anonymous simply because I don't trust that VPN company won't keep logs of who am I and of my activity. True, there are bunch of them saying they don't keep logs, but who says they won't give everything to the authorities once they come knocking on their doors?

I only recently found out that Brave browser has integrated private browsing using Tor network. Did anyone try it? It looks like a really easy way to browse the Internet using Tor network.

Of course, everyone care about their own security/privacy but some think what could possibly go wrong?. They have the "Nah, I'm just surfing the internet so I guess there is nothing to lose" kind of mindset. Well, that's understandable tho because not all of us are aware of the technicallities of cybercrime. The whole stuff is so sophisticated up to extent that most of us choose to ignore it subconsciously :(. However, this is a bad habit and should not be tolerated. So let us all educate the others even only by means of giving simple advice, we don't need to be computer experts to do that ;).
That feature is only available for PC/laptop users, isn't it? I used the mobile version for quite a long time  already and yet I am not aware of it.

You are right! It seems like this feature is only available to Windows users. I also don't know if this feature is available for macOS and Linux versions. I hope they will enable this feature for everyone because it's the easiest way to stay anonymous on the Internet.

You are probably right. I think they did it like that so that ordinary people can easily use it. The problem is will that give non-technical person false hope that he is surfing completely anonymous? Because if it's easy to de-anonymize, then what's the point, right?


The whole idea is to have everything in one browser. When anonymity is not important, then you can use regular browsing. But when anonymity is important, you can simply switch to surfing trough the Tor newtork.

I was both a TOR user and a VPN user a few years back. In the country where I live in currently, there aren't much exposure towards bitcoin and I could say around 75% of the citizens residing over here aren't aware of the term digital currency or bitcoin. But truly speaking this isn't the only reason why I don't use VPN. I download and upload decent chunks of data all the month with the cumulative rate reaching over 1.5 TB+ and my current ISP provides over a seamless 150-200 Mbps speed which isn't truly achievable with the VPN providers. Each time I should be logging off and on the VPN which had become cumbersome over time.

Apart from this I was initially using TOR for connecting bitcointalk in 2018 and connecting through TOR was problematic with the captcha issues prevailing back then. However theymos came up with the captcha bypass solution but I am certainly used to this normal logging behavior. When there does seem to be good exposure towards bitcoin from my country citizens I might be thinking of a way to use bitcointalk through TOR or by using VPN.

Your ISP definitely keeps logs of everything you do, and they are linked to your real name and address. At least with good VPNs you can sign up anonymously and pay in anonymized bitcoin.

I used VPNs and Tor a long time before I used bitcoin. I am much more concerned about blanket surveillance by governments and large corporations than I am about people finding out I own bitcoin. If speed is an issue then I would shop around - you should be able to find one that only gives you a 2-3% speed reduction.

True. But I don't mind my ISP keeping track of what I do online. When I will mind that, I will use Tor browser to stay anonymous.

But the problem with anonymity is that you have to be very careful what you are doing when browsing anonymous. It takes one tiny mistake to disclose your identity. You can make 999 correct steps to avoid being identified and then you make one mistake (like entering your phone number or any other personal data) and your anonymity is gone...

So if you don't trust the VPN company with logs of what you are doing online, why do you trust your ISP with logs of what you are doing online, especially considering the ISP know your real name and address whereas a good VPN company would not?

That's not an argument for giving up on anonymity before you've even begun. Quite the opposite, in fact - it's an argument for taking extra care at all times. It only takes one tiny mistake to crash your car and cause multiple fatalities. That doesn't mean we should all drive with our eyes closed.

The right to privacy is not just for criminals. Its very important to protect yourself. To anonymize your BTC transactions you can use Samurei Wallet or Wasabi wallet for example

I'm saying that I wouldn't trust VPN companies that say they don't keep logs of what their users are doing online if I wanted to stay anonymous. I would rather use Tor network which is free.



You are comparing totally different things. When I'm surfing anonymous and I make a mistake, it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. It reveals my identity, but it doesn't hurt me or anyone else. And when I'm driving my car without being careful, I'm danger to myself and others on the road.

Tor is obviously the better choice if anonymity is your goal, as a VPN does not give you anonymity by any means. But saying that you don't trust VPN providers not to keep logs but you have no problem with your ISP keeping logs seems a bit backwards to me.

That depends entirely on your risk model and what you are doing online. There are plenty of people around the world whose lives would be at risk if their online activities were linked to their real world identities. Just because you have no need or desire for complete anonymity doesn't mean that others share that view.

As I said earlier, I don't have any problem my ISP keeping logs about my online activity because when I don't use VPN or Tor, I don't need anonymity. Besides, my ISP never said that they don't keep logs about my online activity. Everyone knows that ISPs are keeping logs about their users activity. The problem is when VPN service is advertising that they don't keep logs, but they do. Trust me. They have to protect themselves when authorities come knocking on their doors.


I never said that no one needs anonymity. I know there is a lot of people who would be at great risk if they wouldn't be anonymous online. I said that I personally don't need anonymity because I live in a relatively free country where I don't have to watch what I'm writing. And I'm not doing anything illegal to be

Personal opinion: there doesn't even need to be the desire/need to hide from anyone. It's just that we should stop letting them take our intimacy away. Why let anyone, be it the ISP, VPN or whoever else know what you're doing on the internet? I'm sure you'd mind if I knew every time you entered a website and all your internet traffic even if I told you and you knew that I wouldn't harm you in any direct/indirect way. Why let someone else?

I don't know, it should bother us all how much we're being used and how our own, personal thoughts, ideas and information are all being sold by the people we pay on a monthly basis. Take a look at this article: https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/heres-how-much-your-personal-information-is-selling-for-on-the-dark-web/

Who can assure you that your ISP 100% does not take your information and sell it on the dark web/black markets anonymously?

You don't need to be a criminal. You don't need to have something to hide. You only need to prevent yourself from being another product for the companies you pay.

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Oh man, that's just in your own mind. I'm from a theoretically "relatively-free" country too. Freedom is only a relative world, it's imaginary. If you think it from more perspectives, you aren't really free. You're part of a society that submits to their own government. I don't know which country you are from, but take a look at countries locked down due to the pandemic. This is how fast "freedom" can vanish. Within one speech and a few pieces of paper, it's gone.

You don't have to watch what you're writing but someone else watches it for you and it may turn against you at any time. Consider me paranoid, this is basically a debate between someone who wants to have their own intimacy and someone who doesn't give a damn right now about their own data being sold and transferred to intelligence agencies and whoever else at all times!

OK, let me ask you one thing. Are you surfing trough the Tor network right all the time? Because, any other form of anonymity (like a VPN service) is you trusting someone else they won't give logs about your activity to someone else, and you are paying them for that. And how's that different from what I'm doing (surfing without a VPN service or without Tor)?

True, you can pay for a VPN service with cryptocurrency, even a private one like Monero. But as I said earlier, it takes one tiny mistake to reveal your identity as the owner of the wallet that you used to pay for the VPN.

I mean, I don't disagree with your stance about not trusting VPN providers, but there are plenty of examples of providers who have been subpoenaed or another jurisdiction's equivalent and had to prove in a court that they had no logs to hand over.

The only reason you don't have to watch what you are writing is because you haven't written anything your government disagrees with. Write something they view as "extreme" enough and it won't be long before they come knocking at your door. That is the whole point of the surveillance states that are being set up the world over - to make you scared to step out of line:


A VPN won't make you anonymous, and is not designed to.

i am Nigerian. our government doesn't work with data. they have no functional database that provide an accurate figure of the country population. been anonymous isn't a huge deal when it come to tax evasion. exposing your identity on the web will definitely cause harm to you if you are a prominent figure here. i don't think there is other thing that can cause problem here.

The part in bold is true. And that's why I said that I personally don't need anonymity when I'm online. But I'm glad that I have the option to surf online anonymously if I ever need that.

In some countries it is dangerous to try keep your income from the government because of Tax, lately the USA government plan to send some country men out of the country if they dont pay tax, you will lose a lot if detected. I dont think the anonymity in cryptocurrency is to prevent tax payment. Is better to get informed early and prepare the tax payment process before spending, or rather till after bullrun if you are a longtime investor, to take profit in fiat and do other things with the rest.

I think that it is. In modern times, people throw away their privacy so easily its crazy. We talk about not only facebook but instagram and all other social media. Not everyone will suffer consequences of that behaviour but some will. Why risk that? Why sharing my poop time, my food, my activities? Its same in terms of crypto or FIAT money.