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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 08:32:35 PM



Title: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 08:32:35 PM
The Munich Project

Hello Bitcointalk,

I'm very proud to present to you the result of 8 months of our team work.

First of all, I would like to apologize about my English, sometimes not the best because it's not our main language. But I'll do my best to explain the better I can.

- The Summary -

- No name coin, just called "Munich Project" for now. You will choose the name of the coin.

/ The Coin /

- Scrypt-jane w/ evolutive n-factor depending of the power of the network
- Kimoto gravity well algorithm for difficult adjust -- different implementation, not vulnerable to the TW exploit
- 256 billions coins, 96% mined in 100 years. Only 6,25% the first year.
- More coins, less divisible units. 0,01 is the least you can send / receive, just like fiat
- Target block 30 seconds, PoS every 10 minutes for best security
- 15220 base reward per block for the first year. Reward * 0,935 every year (no halfing). Good distribution and inflation controlled better.
- Fees mandatory for transactions : 1 coin at least (for now), 0.01% after 1000 coins sent
- Miners forced to accept a certain amount of transactions into mined blocks
- "Summary" blocks generated by a form of PoS every 2880 blocks (24 hours) to avoid downloading the complete blockchain for "light" nodes


/ The Wallet /

- Full node w/ PoS enabled by default
- Light node to avoid downloading all the blocks - very fast to sync, without the weakness of thin node
- New and attractive UI - just like iOS feeling
- Cloud (opt-out) free service : we store your wallet private keys if you want, but private keys encryption is mandatory (password +12 chars) and never stored on our servers. Works for BTC, LTC and our coin.
- Web interface to access your coins securely (visual keyboard for password, 2FA) if you're not at home and you choose to use the cloud
- In one sentence, you can't loose coins anymore. We, or an hacker, also can't steal your coins. UI preventing you to choose weak passwords.


/ The Exchange /

- Will trade with BTC, LTC, and our coin at first
- 100% compatible with our cloud service, you don't have to "send us" your coins manually
- You trade with your own wallet, you transfer us the funds you like to place on the market only when it's necessary.
- Once your trade is done, the coin you have bought are automatically returned to your wallet.
- We are never third party, unless your coins are on the market
- Best security has been done to avoid any hackers. But if by any chance someone gains the access on our servers, he can't stole your coins in your wallet. However, there is a very, very little chance someone can do that anytime soon - we know our job.


/ The start of the Coin /

- No pre-mine. No insta-mine. Only 3 blocks mined at start by us. Visible on the blockchain explorer at day 0.
- Fair start : no reward for 24h until the coin "really" launch - you have time to setup your miners
- New generation IPO : distribution of the pre-sold coins over the time (4 years), block per block, to avoid massive dumps. No injustice with the miners.
- 4% of the coins mined in 4 years are allocated to the IPO
- You have 15 days (2%) + 30 days (2%) to invest in the IPO, only if you like. You also can wait and mine our coin, and you will not be disadvantaged too much.
- Pre-sold coins are fixed in number, you only buy a part of this coins with the IPO. You can't know how much % you will have before the IPO is finished.


/ Our Team /

- We already are 3 developers and 1 does-everything-else guy
- We are ready to recruit 2 to 4 new and very competent people if our project works well
- We already worked full-time for 8 months on this project
- We are motivated to grow up the visibility of our coin over the time, by offering more services
- We allowed 1% of the mined coins to the development team on 4 years to make actions around the coin, without penalize the miners
- All the actions by us will be public - exact number of coins used for the actions will also be public
- The 1% coins are allowed only for promotion of the coin - it is not and will never be our "salary"
- Public website to voting our actions will come soon
- Much more to come - we are full of ideas


- The Full Paper -

First of all, let me introduce ourselves. We are a group of 4 persons :

- 3 developers :
Julian is specialized for +10 years in C++. He is doing the core of the coin.
Mark is specialized about native app creation. He is doing the UI for the wallets.
And myself, Donn. I know a bit about C++, but I'm mainly into Javascript, HTML5, and Databases. I'm in charge of all the web related content and the security of our servers. I'll also do the PR.
- 1 does-everything-else guy :
He is Matt. He is doing the marketing of our project. He is also advising me for the PR, and is good in all the works developers can't do.

We also have some knowledge in economics - for what it worth.

Now, let me introduce you the Munich Project :

Eight months ago, we decided after our observations to create an alternative coin, with a maximum of improvements. Bitcoin is clearly an amazing technology, but it suffers in our opinion of many flaws that hinder its adoption by the masses.

We have observed with a great interest all the alt coins created during this times. Most are time loss, but a few have great ideas. We tried to keep the best of each coin we saw.

Before going into the details, I would like to let you know our work is not finished. It's still under development, but we can say 80% of the work is done.

Also, the name of our coin has not been chosen yet. If possible, we want it to be chosen by you. Let's call it "Munich Project" for now.

If you have good ideas about a name, just tell us !


/ The protocol /

- Type of Work

Nowadays, there is only 3 systems to create the money, validate the transactions, and avoid the infamous double spending.

Proof of Work is the traditional system, used by Bitcoin. However, it consumes energy, and depending of the hashing algorithm, can sometimes be not fair.

Proof of Stake is another system, used initially in Peercoin. It have many advantages, but also some disadvantages : it encourages the users to don't spend their coins. We truly thinks a money is here to be spent, and not only collected.

Proof of Burn is to our eyes a very bad system. It does not promote the usage, it promotes the early adopters only, and it is dependent of another blockchain (with it's flaws). It's good to create an asset, but clearly not a money.

We decided to use a PoW and PoS hybrid for some reasons :

- PoW is great because it's fair when the hashing algorithm is well chosen. Also, creating a community of miners is a great thing.
- PoS is great to reduce the 51% vulnerability, and is also a good way to make transactions more safe

- Hashing Algorithm

First of all, the hashing algorithm is very important, because it needs to be fair. Bitcoin has mainly been created to be mined by anyone with a computer.

We believe the use of scrypt-jane with evolutive n-factor (cpu + memory usage) is the best way today to avoid the use of asics over the time.

Our second concern is the anticipation of the n-factor change over the time.

To make the things impossible to predict, the n-factor will change (+1) every time the total network hashrate will be > 10.000,00 MH/s

Also, the n-factor will lower (-1) every time the total network hash rate will be < 2.000,00 MH/s

The base (and minimum) n-factor will be 9 at the start (2^9 = 512)

There will be only one n-factor change allowed per week to avoid constant n-factor changes.

- Maximum number of coins, divisibility, and a little of economy

We strongly believe it is way better to stay in something that people know. This said, a coin will be only divisible by 100.

It means the minimum coins to send or receive will be 0,01.

To compensate for this limitation, we tried to make the maximum number of coins in line with the fact one coin should never worth more than 1$.

Many economists thinks a money is not "usable" by the masses until it's market cap is somewhere between 200 - 300 billions USD.

So, we decided the maximum coins mined by PoW will never exceed 256 billions coins.

However, we are very aware about the fact this total market cap is impossible to be gained in few years, even for Bitcoin.

- Coin generation over time

We don't want our coins to "flood" the market. In fact, we believe the key of the success is a good repartition of the coin creation over the time.

The first year will generate 16 Billions of coins.

Block time target will be 30 seconds to insure quick transactions and confirmations.

Difficulty will be re-adjusted every block with Kimoto gravity well algorithm

Block target per year (counting 365 days per year) will be 1.051.200

Reward the first year will be 15220 coins per block

Unlike Bitcoin or other alts, there will be no "reward split" over time. Each year, the reward will be * 0,935.

Year +1 - 6,25% of total coins generated
15220 coins per block
Year +2 - 12% - 14230,7
Year +3 - 17% - 12440,83
Year +4 - 22% - 11632,18
Year +5 - 27% - 10876,09
Year +6 - 32% - 10169,14
Year +7 - 36% - 9508,15
Year +8 - 40% - 8890,12
Year +9 - 43% - 8312,26
Year +10 - 47% - 7771,96
Year +20 - 71% - 3968,69
Year +50 - 93% - 528,44
Year +100 - 96% - 18,35
Year +200 - 96,1% - 0,02

Note: after 210 years, block reward will be fixed to 0,01 coins

- Transactions and fees

What we want is a reliable network with transactions. Our coin is made to be a 100% reliable way to send, and receive money. We are not satisfied with the current Bitcoin work concerning the fees & workers validation system. So we wanted to be fair for the both of the parts :

- We have seen many cases of transactions being extremely long to be validated (when they are), and also many people who were mistaken in fees.

Our opinion is all the transactions made into the network have to be processed to make the things simpler for the masses. To make this functional, we made the tx fees mandatory. To start, the minimum fee will be 1 coin, and in case the amount of coins sent is > to 1.000, the fees will be 0,01%. If the minimum fees are not sent in the transaction, the transaction is simply rejected.

There will be static options in the client to pay "premium" fees to guarantee the transaction will not be stuck in case of a long waiting list. We don't think this will be necessary, but we preferred to anticipate the case. Static options also means nobody will send thousands of coins as fee by mistake.

- Workers will have the obligation to include transactions on the blocks they will solve. Numbers are still in discussion, but the idea is to avoid miners who does not include transactions into their blocks. In case the miner does not add the required % of transactions pending into his block, the block reward will be rejected by the other miners.

This modifications will make the transactions fast, reliable, and smooth.

Transaction validations will be made using the Meni's implementation of hybrid PoW / PoS. We believe it is the most adequate implementation to stay fair for both workers and stakeholders. You can read more here : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

Each checkpoint set by stakeholders will happen every 20 blocks. This also means every transaction made into the network will be fully validated every 10 minutes, without any possibility of 51% attack (transaction cheat) by PoW miners at this point.

PoS reward is still in discussion.

To avoid any result of a very large blockchain, we had to innovate a little bit :

- Blockchain

The main strength of Bitcoin is the blockchain. This make the Bitcoin system possible and operational. However, when we discovered Bitcoin, we seen very quickly the limits of the blockchain.

To us, it's impossible to make the use crypto currencies possible for the masses, as each client have to download the entire blockchain. (excluding third party clients running a thin node)

The fact is this problem will be more, and more problematic year after year, cause of the total size of the blockchain.

We agree thin nodes resolve the problem in some ways, but it is not good enough in our mind because of the lack of security.

To avoid this problem, we decided to split our coin client into two modes :

- The first mode is the way it works for each coin on the market right now : full node. By default, it have the entire blockchain synced, and the PoS enabled. This means you will also be rewarded for having the entire blockchain at disposal and your client running.

- The second mode, enabled by default, is making your client a light node. Only the "summary" blocks will be downloaded, with all the standard blocks discovered after this summary. This way, your client is well synched with the network (strong security, just like running a full node), but without the constraint to running a full node.

We will not disclose technically now how our summary system works until our coin is ready to launch, but we can say the generation will be made with the same process than PoS for transactions.

Summary blocks will be generated every 2880 blocks (24 hours)

Now everybody can install the wallet, and be synced with the network in few seconds only (instead of hours), without the concerns of having only a unreliable part of the entire blockchain like running a thin node.


/ The wallet /

To make this quick : we don't like Bitcoin-Qt at all. It is slow, not user friendly, not secure for the average Joe by our standards, and not ready for the masses.

So, we made our very own wallet to hold our coin. And Bitcoins. And Litecoins.

The most problematic problem with the usual wallet is if you loose your wallet.dat, or if your computer is compromised, your coins are lost. Also, it's not easy to understand to people not initiated with crypto currencies.

We integrated some functionalities to make the things better :

- Native client for Windows, Mac OS and Linux.
- New and attractive look. Better and more "human" presentation of the wallet. We like the Apple iOS look, even if Apple don't like Bitcoin. We also love to be user-friendly.
- Mandatory password for wallet (12+ chars minimum)
   (not mandatory if you decide to do not use our cloud, but all is done to make you protect your coins by default)
- Optional storage in our cloud of your private key -- your password is NEVER send into our cloud, so we don't have access to your coins
- Optional (but opt-in) visual keyboard to avoid keyloggers
- Optional (opt-out) keylogger protection - Windows only
- Web-app wallet to access your coins, even if your are not at home -- your password is (again) NEVER stored on our servers. If your wallet have cloud enabled, you're ready to use our web-app.
- Integrated paper wallet generator, because it's better if it's integrated
- Also, integrated and user-friendly way to add private addresses into the wallet
- By default, the wallet is pre-generating 1000 addresses instead of 100 into your wallet.dat -- better to make saves, just in case you don't want to use our cloud
- Possibility to add "contacts" - better presentation to avoid showing the addresses a maximum as the "main" info.
- Any functionality in the wallet is well documented in a easy way - even a 10 years old child can understand how it works

Wallet and web-app wallet are not finished now, we'll share more when it will be ready

A mobile web-app wallet in HTML5 is also planned, but not started now (I only have 2 hands, unfortunately)


/ Blockchain /

A web based blockchain explorer will come at the launch of the coin. Nothing special here.


/ The exchange /

With our wallet and web-app, we are also working on an exchange to make the things easier for you to buy or sell your coins.

Mainly, we didn't want to do that to avoid centralization of the services around our coin, but the recent stories has changed our feelings about that (Mt.Gox, Poloniex, ...).

We are doing the exchange to be 100% integrated with your wallet. This means if you have your wallet with cloud enabled, you're ready to exchange our coin for BTC or LTC if you like. This also works if you transfer BTC or LTC in your wallet, and you want to buy our coin.

This also means your coins will be stored on YOUR wallet, with YOUR private keys and YOUR password (the one we will never know).

So basically, we made our best for your safety, because it became our first priority after what we seen.

Our exchange will not be real time, because it needs some time to transfer your coins to our exchange wallets. It will also cost some transaction fees, but best security comes with a cost.

When a transaction will be complete, the coin you bought will be returned immediately to your wallet for best security.

This way, it's impossible for you to loose your coins by using our exchange. Even if we done the best concerning the security of our servers.

To make the things more fair, our exchange will be 0% fees for the first 6 months. You will only pay transaction fees.

Technically speaking, all our web based services are HTML5, 100% generated by JS with your browser. It means our servers only send you the "real" information in JSON. Overcharge of our servers is not for today this way.

More details will come later when the exchange will be finished.

(We also plan to add tools for merchants -- but I'll not disclose anything more about that, our time is limited now)


/ Our mining abilities /

Because we trust our project, and we want to provide a good security on the network, we will add 1 rig per day during 5 days, then 3 rigs per day during 10 days. Each rig is currently doing ~2,2 Mh/s with Litecoin mining.

We will not run all our rigs at the start to benefit the other miners.


/ Pre-mine and starting /

No pre-mine. No insta-mine. No "unavailable" wallet and/or mining tools at start. We'll do a fair start. We know everybody launching a coin is claiming their start will be fair, we'll do it better :

- Wallet and mining tools will be provided on at least 5 files hosting to prevent any DDoS. Our servers are well protected, but we never know.
- The first 2880 blocks (24 hours) will not generate any reward

This way, we hope anybody interested with our coin will have the time to make it works correctly before the "real" start 24 hours after the initial start.


/ Initial pre-ordering /

We always hated pre-mine or insta-mine alt coins, but we thought we had to find a better way to fund our project.

I have to be honest : developing this project had cost us a lot of time not being to work on any other project. We all had to find the money deeply in our pockets to live during these 8 months. 2 of us had to quit their respective (and well paid) jobs. To make it clear, we had to find $150k / €100k to make this happen during these 8 months.

Hopefully, we had early bought Bitcoins to fund this -- but we will need more money to continue our work after the launch of the coin and the services associated (explorer, exchange, wallet, and web-wallet).

Developing our futures services will cost us big money in terms of time not beeing spent on another projects. Not talking about the servers costs, etc.

So we have found a good way to avoid some problems with the standard IPO we seen so far.

The main problem with the IPO currently are :

- Quick, not many people are aware about it, until it's too late to invest
- Sometimes shady and/or underground
- This makes a few people having a lot of coins very quickly
- This people makes at least 1000% on their investment by dumping the coins on the market, killing the coin most of the time at the same time

In few words, it's just unfair and not well for the coin. We don't want that.

Our IPO will be done in a better way :

- There will be 2 IPO to slightly advantage the early investors
- The first IPO will last 15 days, and the second IPO will last 30 days, with no limits of investing or number of people investing
- A fixed percentage of coins is set for the IPO. The more people invest, the better the distribution is
- The coins will not come from a pre-mining, but instead, by a very few % of each block mined

4% of all the mining for 4 years will go for the IPO :

Year +1 - 640 Millions
Year +2 - 598,4 Millions
Year +3 - 559,5 Millions
Year +4 - 523,1 Millions

Makes a total of 2,321 Billions of coins allowed to the IPO - less than 0,91% of all the coins in existence.

The coins will be distributed 50% into each IPO.

Each person who will investing into the IPO will be publicly announced into this thread, and will receive at the end of the second IPO a software to generate a public and a private key. We will need only the public key. You will receive the payments at each block mined directly into this address (will be hard-coded into our software)

Disclaimer : you will not know how much coins you will receive from the IPO, until it's finished


/ Our action to promote the coin /

Another 1% of all the mining for 4 years will go to us - the developers, to promote the coin :

Year +1 - 160 Millions
Year +2 - 149,6 Millions
Year +3 - 139,9 Millions
Year +4 - 130,8 Millions

Makes a total of 0,580 Billions of coins allowed to the public developing of the project.

We will NOT consider this as our personal reward. Our personal reward will be the coins we will mine with our own hardware.

The coins will go to a publicly known address, and all our actions done with this coins will be publicly announced (with the exact numbers). We plan :

- Coins giveaways (bitcointalk, reddit, our website, twitter, etc.)
- Free games to gain some coins (more than the giveaways)
- Charity
- Funding of special events
- Advertising
- etc.

This way, we make sure we can afford the long-term action to promote the coin to the most people.

We also plan soon to develop a web platform to permit people to poll on witch way we should spend or give the coins.


/ The current calendar /

From today - We are finishing our work. We will also take our time to listen to you and your questions about the project.

We will choose and disclose the final name of the coin as soon as you suggest us some good names. We'll also give our Twitter and Website name at this moment -- now we can't register anything until the name is chosen.

For the logo, I think we can make a good draft in few days once the name will be chosen.

2nd April - Midnight GMT - Begining of the first IPO

Before the 15th April - Midnight GMT - Finalizing the coin name, starting graphics (logo, banners, etc.)

16th April - Midnight GMT - Closing of the first IPO, beginning of the second IPO

15th May - Midnight GMT - Closing of the second IPO

16th May - We send the software to generate public / private key to the investors

------------ From this line, dates are estimations, and are susceptible to slightly change, depending of our work ------------

1rst June - We launch the coin and the wallet. It's probable that the wallet UI will not be ready exactly at this date, depending on our progress.

2nd June - The first blocks with rewards are mined

July / August - The exchange market is launched

August / September - Many more services to come, like platform for internet sellers, mobile web-app wallet, etc. We'll take the time to explain you later what are our plans


/ Disclaimer /

This thread is self moderated. Trolling, childish, or baseless comments are not tolerated. Please keep this thread serious, we think our work deserve it.

If you think we're a scam, we can't blame you considering all we've seen these last months. Just keep your words, you are free to believe in our project - or not.

We also know we have a "Newbie" account here. To be honest, we have been lurking for some years now, but we never felt necessary to participate here until today. This is also our first public Bitcoin-related project. We have done many Bitcoin-related things in private until we decided to do this.

So, in order to be as clear as possible, please consider our project as a very high risk investment if you wish to take part to the IPO. Even if we don't think it's that risky, it worth to be said.


/ Final words /

Now, we are here to :

- Answer all your questions
- Read your comments, suggestions, etc. All the constructive comments are very welcome and appreciated, we are very open-minded.
- Let you propose and vote for a coin name. Be creative !

Once the coin name will be choosen, we will update this thread accordingly

Thanks you for your time,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 08:36:26 PM
/ Coin Name Contest /

The coin name contest has started 1rst April, and will finish the Sunday 13th April at midnight GMT

You can read more about it here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553248.0

UPDATE: Coin name contest finished, we will choose the final name very soon. Thanks everybody !


/ First IPO /

The first IPO has been launched. It will last from the 2nd April to the 16th April at midnight GMT

You can read more about it here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553312.0

UPDATE: IPO cancelled due to the lack of interest, probably cause of the low reward associated


/ IPO Poll /

We decided to let you choose what is the best way for the Munich Project IPO. Then, we will decide how we will make our next IPO.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Kheg on March 20, 2014, 08:43:40 PM
I see multiple mentions of IPO.

Sorry, you lose.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: sakkosekk on March 20, 2014, 08:47:43 PM
150K euro? Did you live like kings then or what?

"IPO" & "investment" are tossed around too much these days.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 08:50:15 PM
I see multiple mentions of IPO.

Sorry, you lose.

Hello,

We are aware IPO's are not really popular these days, especially after so many failed projects / scams.

This is why we took a long time to describe our project the better we can, with many details.

However, as we are saying in our paper, nothing obliges you to take part of the IPO -- you can just wait the start of the coin, and mine with your hardware at this moment to take part of our project

Unfortunately, IPO is to us the only way right now to get extra time (hopefully months) to work on the project -- as we are running low on funds

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kache on March 20, 2014, 08:50:54 PM
Far too long term. 4 years in the Crypto market is centuries in real world. 4 years from now we won't even be using scryptn, probably.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 08:54:27 PM
150K euro? Did you live like kings then or what?

"IPO" & "investment" are tossed around too much these days.

Hello,

4 persons at ~3400 EUR / month (on average) * 8 month without income = 108K€

150K EUR != $150K USD by the way

Not living like kings, but we earn money depending of our qualifications. We are not kids, and we all have famility responsabilities.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 09:03:04 PM
Far too long term. 4 years in the Crypto market is centuries in real world. 4 years from now we won't even be using scryptn, probably.

Hello,

We understand computing will be much more different in 4 years.

However, we had to make a choice today, and in our mind, scrypt with n-factor depending of the network total hashrate is by far the best solution.

And if by any chance scrypt with n-factor is not enough in X years, we are not against an hard fork to update the coin core to the new hardware -- we want to keep ASICS out of our coin over the time.

BTW, the total supply will not be reached after 4 years -- we are only talking about the IPO investors and the development team funding for public actions with this timeframe

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Kheg on March 20, 2014, 09:12:42 PM
I see multiple mentions of IPO.

Sorry, you lose.

Hello,

We are aware IPO's are not really popular these days, especially after so many failed projects / scams.

This is why we took a long time to describe our project the better we can, with many details.

However, as we are saying in our paper, nothing obliges you to take part of the IPO -- you can just wait the start of the coin, and mine with your hardware at this moment to take part of our project

Unfortunately, IPO is to us the only way right now to get extra time (hopefully months) to work on the project -- as we are running low on funds

Donn

Words on a forum (ie: a "whitepaper") are pretty much meaningless these days.  Put some effort in and get some real working code going before you start asking people for money.  That's how it works in the real world.  We're done with scamming panhandlers around here.  There's too many people walking away too much virtual currency these days pissing off too many "investors".


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kache on March 20, 2014, 09:33:02 PM
Far too long term. 4 years in the Crypto market is centuries in real world. 4 years from now we won't even be using scryptn, probably.

Hello,

We understand computing will be much more different in 4 years.

However, we had to make a choice today, and in our mind, scrypt with n-factor depending of the network total hashrate is by far the best solution.

And if by any chance scrypt with n-factor is not enough in X years, we are not against an hard fork to update the coin core to the new hardware -- we want to keep ASICS out of our coin over the time.

BTW, the total supply will not be reached after 4 years -- we are only talking about the IPO investors and the development team funding for public actions with this timeframe

Donn
Yes, I know that total supply will be reached in a century and, trust me, you won't exist in a century.
4 years IPO payouts is too long as well.
Really, it's far too long term of a project for this incredibly fast moving landscape.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 09:37:08 PM
Words on a forum (ie: a "whitepaper") are pretty much meaningless these days.  Put some effort in and get some real working code going before you start asking people for money.  That's how it works in the real world.  We're done with scamming panhandlers around here.  There's too many people walking away too much virtual currency these days pissing off too many "investors".

We understand your point,

Our core is almost ready to launch, we already have succeed 2 test networks to fully try the fundamentals of our coin. If you read our paper, you will see we improved a lot compared to the base of Bitcoin. We will run a final test is ~2 weeks to ultimately check all is functional. However, we will not disclose the source code until the coin is ready to launch, to avoid copy-cats and thief of ideas.

About the wallet, we'll share more later (UI), when it will be ready to be "visible". Currently, it needs more work to be presentable. Probably in ~3 weeks.

We are also working on our website, we're just waiting for the coin final name to launch it.

Anyways, there is many things coming in the next weeks, please don't consider our first post as our last one -- we knows how to communicate

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 09:48:04 PM
Yes, I know that total supply will be reached in a century and, trust me, you won't exist in a century.
4 years IPO payouts is too long as well.
Really, it's far too long term of a project for this incredibly fast moving landscape.

Bitcoin concept is existing for more than 4 years now, I don't see a problem with this timeframe.

The crypto-market currently needs people involved in their projects in the long run. We are involved as much as it is possible.

The IPO is clearly designed for the long term believers.

We don't want to run a "pump and dump" sheme with all the power to the initial investors and/or us, this is just not our philosophy, nor our goal.

Our main goal after all our initials plans (coin, exchange, explorer, wallet + web-wallet) is clearly to run a customer and business owner friendly service to spend and accept our coins easely for BTC, LTC, or cash. Because a money is not a money if you can't spend it everywhere.

If we don't plan at least for 4 years, it means this goal will not be reachable.

The future of crypto-currencies is in our opinion the mass acceptance by the merchents and their customers -- not something only designed for geeks.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kache on March 20, 2014, 09:49:49 PM
Yes, I know that total supply will be reached in a century and, trust me, you won't exist in a century.
4 years IPO payouts is too long as well.
Really, it's far too long term of a project for this incredibly fast moving landscape.

Bitcoin concept is existing for more than 4 years now, I don't see a problem with this timeframe.

The crypto-market currently needs people involved in their projects in the long run. We are involved as much as it is possible.

The IPO is clearly designed for the long term believers.

We don't want to run a "pump and dump" sheme with all the power to the initial investors and/or us, this is just not our philosophy, nor our goal.

Our main goal after all our initials plans (coin, exchange, explorer, wallet + web-wallet) is clearly to run a customer and business owner friendly service to spend and accept our coins easely for BTC, LTC, or cash. Because a money is not a money if you can't spend it everywhere.

If we don't plan at least for 4 years, it means this goal will not be reachable.

The future of crypto-currencies is in our opinion the mass acceptance by the merchents and their customers -- not something only designed for geeks.

Donn
That's why Doge will win. :)
Regardless, good luck. ;)


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: morris826 on March 20, 2014, 09:53:57 PM
Will there be any free giveaways of this coin?


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 10:00:22 PM
Will there be any free giveaways of this coin?

Hello,

Sure, as soon as the first blocks with rewards will be mined, the dev team will receive 1% of each block reward for public actions.

Free giveaways are part of what we will do with this coins.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kelsey on March 20, 2014, 10:07:08 PM

"We don't want our coins to "flood" the market. In fact, we believe the key of the success is a good repartition of the coin creation over the time.

The first year will generate 16 Billions of coins."

lol




Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 10:07:47 PM
The future of crypto-currencies is in our opinion the mass acceptance by the merchents and their customers -- not something only designed for geeks.

Donn
That's why Doge will win. :)
Regardless, good luck. ;)

Don't forget Doge is only 100 days old ;)

To be honest, we own some Doge, we believe a community is probably the most important thing for a crypto-coin

However, we think Doge is lacking of technological advances -- beeing "only" a fork of Litecoin is not the way we see a successful crypto-currency in the future.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 10:14:03 PM

"We don't want our coins to "flood" the market. In fact, we believe the key of the success is a good repartition of the coin creation over the time.

The first year will generate 16 Billions of coins."

lol

Did you know the first year of Bitcoin generated 2628 Billions of uBTC ?

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).

More coins, less divisable, a better user-friendly way to see things.

Also, 16 Billions of 256 total is only 6,25% of the total supply.

For information, 12,51% of Bitcoin total supply was mined the first year. This is what we call a good repartition over the time.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kelsey on March 20, 2014, 10:18:16 PM

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).


The whole things a confusing waste of space......try the KISS principle.




Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 10:37:35 PM

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).


The whole things a confusing waste of space......try the KISS principle.

What is simpler that anybody on the earth knows : 1 cent is the smallest currency unit you can own. Works in every country.

Try to explain your grand-mother she can have 0,0000001 Bitcoin. That's a lot of zeros after the decimal point for the masses.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kelsey on March 20, 2014, 10:45:03 PM

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).


The whole things a confusing waste of space......try the KISS principle.

What is simpler that anybody on the earth knows : 1 cent is the smallest currency unit you can own. Works in every country.

Try to explain your grand-mother she can have 0,0000001 Bitcoin. That's a lot of zeros after the decimal point for the masses.

Donn

What I am saying is your whole write up is just a confusing rant (admittedly some of that maybe cause english is not your first language). Read the whole lot and don't see a single thing it improves on Bitcoin (and I am actually no real fan of bitcoin), yet you state "Reinventing Bitcoin"?





Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: goingDeaf on March 20, 2014, 11:00:53 PM

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).


The whole things a confusing waste of space......try the KISS principle.




Have you ever tried to understand the algorithms behind any coin?

They're all mind bending, even Elliptic curve cryptography, which is a basic part of it. The wiki page on it could be a gigantic piss take and I'd not have an inkling.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 11:03:51 PM
What I am saying is your whole write up is just a confusing rant (admittedly some of that maybe cause english is not your first language). Read the whole lot and don't see a single thing it improves on Bitcoin (and I am actually no real fan of bitcoin), yet you state "Reinventing Bitcoin"?

- New way of syncing with the blockchain in seconds without any security compromise
- Best way to optain a system who can handle much more transactions than any coins right now, without the hassle to download the entire blockchain for each client. And without any security compromise (PoW, new PoS implementation)
- User friendly wallet, designed for the average Joe, with unique cloud system for security of the funds
- Best way as we know to scale difficulty and algorithm n-factor over the time
- First exchange directly linked and implemented to the wallet, you can use it without the fear to loose coins when you don't trade
- Better distribution of the coins to avoid big stake holders cause of IPO, early mining, insta mining, ASICS, etc.
- Not fully disclosed plans over the time to promote the coin at a profesional level. Bitcoin/Litecoin core team and foundation is not funded well in our opinion.
- Our supporters will vote the actions our team will take to promote the coin. We thinks the community is the most important thing.

This is only few things that comes in my mind when I think about the improvements we offer

I agree it is hard to make something better on our side for now about our paper, cause of our lack of english. But feel free to offer us some improvements for our paper - we'll edit it without problems.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: kelsey on March 20, 2014, 11:06:22 PM

If you read our paper, you'll see it's not possible to divide one of our coin by more than 100 (0,01 minimal unit).


The whole things a confusing waste of space......try the KISS principle.




Have you ever tried to understand the algorithms behind any coin?

They're all mind bending, even Elliptic curve cryptography, which is a basic part of it. The wiki page on it could be a gigantic piss take and I'd not have an inkling.

yes I was into that well before BTC ever came about lol, I was saying the guys write up on his coin is a confusing waste of space, and what can be understood is just taking pieces from here there and everywhere and making another clone crapcoin.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 20, 2014, 11:09:29 PM
yes I was into that well before BTC ever came about lol, I was saying the guys write up on his coin is a confusing waste of space, and what can be understood is just taking pieces from here there and everywhere and making another clone crapcoin.

Please avoid trolling, you can't call our project "another clone crapcoin" if you read all the improvements and the eco-system we are bringing around our coin in a very near future.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: mcjavar on March 21, 2014, 12:13:25 AM
Looks interesting. Definitely worth following this thread.

But I donīt really get the idea of the IPO. Could you please clarify or describe it in a way that avarage Joe can understand? :)


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 21, 2014, 12:44:24 AM
Looks interesting. Definitely worth following this thread.

But I don´t really get the idea of the IPO. Could you please clarify or describe it in a way that avarage Joe can understand? :)

The IPO is here to permit us to work some more months full time on the project, until we make it work properly (core & services associated). Is also permit people to be more involved if they want in the success of this project.

We thinks it's a win-win situation.

The more we will get, the longer we can work full time after August of this year, and the more services we will develop around the coin.

However, even if we don't get a lot, we already planned how we will distribute our time with anothers projects we have to follow.

To be clear, it's just a question of a % of work time we will dedicate to the coin after we launch the coin, the exchange, the explorer, and the wallet / web-wallet

I edited the OP to be more clear about the fact we don't need money for the period before August -- we are a little short, but it will be OK.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Kheg on March 21, 2014, 02:33:27 AM
Looks interesting. Definitely worth following this thread.

But I donīt really get the idea of the IPO. Could you please clarify or describe it in a way that avarage Joe can understand? :)

The IPO is here to permit us to work some more months full time on the project, until we make it work properly (core & services associated). Is also permit people to be more involved if they want in the success of this project.

We thinks it's a win-win situation.

And it also means that there's also no vested interest should things go south in a hurry.  You have other peoples' cryptocurrency in your hands as funding - completely non-refundable with no way for them to get it back should you break your promises.  You hide behind the anonymity of the internet with no contractual obligation of delivering a working product and no liability should you not deliver a working product.

Of course YOU think it's a win-win situation.  YOU can't lose!


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 21, 2014, 09:04:36 PM
And it also means that there's also no vested interest should things go south in a hurry.  You have other peoples' cryptocurrency in your hands as funding - completely non-refundable with no way for them to get it back should you break your promises.  You hide behind the anonymity of the internet with no contractual obligation of delivering a working product and no liability should you not deliver a working product.

Of course YOU think it's a win-win situation.  YOU can't lose!

I think you don't understood what we wanted to mean, let me explain better :

I understand the fact you are worried after all the scam we all seen these last months -- there is nothing we can do against that, except by sharing more "proofs" of our work in the future. We will do that as we already planned.

This is why we took an oportunity to make the IPO in a better way. We are not selling X of our coin for Y of your BTC or LTC. We also don't encourage anybody to invest more than they are willing to "loose".

Our main objective with the IPO is a good repartition of the pre-sold coins. It means you can invest 1mBTC if you like to. If nobody trust us, and you're the only one who invested, you'll take the 2% of the first or second IPO.

It also means if 1000 people invest 1mBTC, we will not get a lot from the IPO, but I'll say it's fine for us, because the repartition will be good.

About the funds we will gather, even if it's not good enough to get us more months of full working on the project, it's not a real concern as we already planned a repartition of our work time later.

Unfortunately, it's quite difficult to make an IPO after the launch of the coin :)

By win-win, I wanted to mean the coin have more chances of a great success if we can work more on it after August of this year.

Anyways, I encourage the people interested by our coin to judge our work on the pieces we are giving, and to invest accordingely.

I hope the another pieces of our work we will share later will disperse the "doubts" about our work.

And to be 100% honnest with you, if I was at your place, I will not invest more than 0.1 BTC right now (what I'm willing to loose), considering there is only a paper right now -- even if I think it is good and detailed.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: mav137 on March 21, 2014, 09:47:31 PM
sounds interesting, sounds like you already put in a lot of work. Im not familiar with the specifics regarding setting up a new coin. I guess true innovation is what takes time.
Other stuff can be copied from bitcoin. 80% of the work done means you'll be ready in 2 months and you need some money to continue after august. Sounds like there is plenty of time to show that you guys walk the walk. Of course you''ll need some guarantees of people investing. And thats where for most guys here the problem is. They've seen a lot of not innovative clones and too many pump and dump scenes to trust just anybody.

Would you be willing to accept the IPO investments under escrow terms? I guess if you have dough to keep working until august and produce the products that you promise, i'd be more comfortable to put some bitcoin in escrow to be released under specific terms.

Of course there is always the risk of being overtaken by the next innovative coin, but thats inherent to all in the crypto sphere. It's too bad that it's not 2nd generation in the sense that the possibilities on top of your coin are somewhat limited, in regard to other bitcoin v2 alternatives. How would you deal with those kinds of competition? Do you aim for a selected market / use?
I'm a believer of a multicoin financial landscape, where certain coins attract certain services to run on top. This means that v2 functionality might not be required but then I ask what market you aim to serve with this coin.



Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: V8x8d on March 21, 2014, 10:07:23 PM
Already too many pointless altcoins. Also, I could never support an IPO coin from a newbie.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: SBOSS on March 21, 2014, 10:15:28 PM
why a no name developer?  What's your real BTC account?


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: dewdeded on March 21, 2014, 10:52:20 PM
Look at Bitcoin 0.9 release notes: 390 developers. You are three no-name people and want to improve/outclass Bitcoin?!?

If you want to keep claiming you are professional coders at least post your LinkedIn or XING-profiles or at very least links to your GitHub profiles.


Also very much unclear why another coin. We have 300 coins. Whats the motivation?

Put your skills (if present) in an existenting coin. Win-win-win for everybody.
(you, the coin u join, cryptocurrency scene - because of no failed IPO/project)



Look at man power EMunie or Ethereum project had. All failed IPOing.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 22, 2014, 12:26:39 AM
Are you located in Munich, Germany?

Just asking out of curiosity, because that's where I am.

Hello,

We're not from Munich, we chosen this name because we were in Munich for a work trip when we initially had the idea.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 22, 2014, 12:44:52 AM
sounds interesting, sounds like you already put in a lot of work. Im not familiar with the specifics regarding setting up a new coin. I guess true innovation is what takes time.
Other stuff can be copied from bitcoin. 80% of the work done means you'll be ready in 2 months and you need some money to continue after august. Sounds like there is plenty of time to show that you guys walk the walk. Of course you''ll need some guarantees of people investing. And thats where for most guys here the problem is. They've seen a lot of not innovative clones and too many pump and dump scenes to trust just anybody.

Would you be willing to accept the IPO investments under escrow terms? I guess if you have dough to keep working until august and produce the products that you promise, i'd be more comfortable to put some bitcoin in escrow to be released under specific terms.

Of course there is always the risk of being overtaken by the next innovative coin, but thats inherent to all in the crypto sphere. It's too bad that it's not 2nd generation in the sense that the possibilities on top of your coin are somewhat limited, in regard to other bitcoin v2 alternatives. How would you deal with those kinds of competition? Do you aim for a selected market / use?
I'm a believer of a multicoin financial landscape, where certain coins attract certain services to run on top. This means that v2 functionality might not be required but then I ask what market you aim to serve with this coin.

Hello,

You are right, developing something new - even if it's on an existing base - takes some time.

We will take the time to show you some pieces of our work later, for now we need to work harder to follow our timing.

About the fact our project is innovative or not, we'll leave you judges with our paper.

--

About the escrow, we don't want to play the market with the funds we will receive. To be clear, the Bitcoins and Litecoins raised during the IPO will be sold at the market price at the end of the IPO to avoid any bad surprise when we will need the funds. We learned with the years to always make a clear planning concerning finances.

We really don't understand why people are calling Nxt, Mastercoin, etc. as the "second generation". Our sentiment is full PoS is not the way to go to create a money (not talking about an asset). To us, the only "successful" coins right now are Bitcoin, Litecoin, Peercoin, and Dogecoin. And to be quite frank, most of the people just don't care about "ecology" and "energy consuming". It's only commercial.

About pump and dump, all the coins are succesptible to have one (just check Litecoin the last week). However, we are not making the things easy by releasing a lot of coins with the IPO.

About competition, our project is clear : we want to make the most complete eco-system around our coin, to make it usable to the most of the people. The more the user-friendly services, the better the result will be. Just for example, Bitcoin is currently hard to use for the average Joe. I highly doubt average Joe will use Nxt, Mastercoin, or anything like that, because it's just too difficult to understand.

In few words, we just want to make the coin easy to use & understand, because it's probably the most important thing to gain popularity.

I hope I answered all your questions,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 22, 2014, 12:53:34 AM
Already too many pointless altcoins. Also, I could never support an IPO coin from a newbie.

So to you, designing a coin and services accessible for the most people is pointless ?

I suppose you only see Bitcoin as a way to make money ? This is not our vision.

Please read our paper, this way we maybe can have a constructive discussion about it

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 22, 2014, 01:11:38 AM
why a no name developer?  What's your real BTC account?

Look at Bitcoin 0.9 release notes: 390 developers. You are three no-name people and want to improve/outclass Bitcoin?!?

If you want to keep claiming you are professional coders at least post your LinkedIn or XING-profiles or at very least links to your GitHub profiles.


Also very much unclear why another coin. We have 300 coins. Whats the motivation?

Put your skills (if present) in an existenting coin. Win-win-win for everybody.
(you, the coin u join, cryptocurrency scene - because of no failed IPO/project)


Look at man power EMunie or Ethereum project had. All failed IPOing.

Hello,

Why no-name -- there is mutiples reasons. Here are some :
- We usually work as contractor for institutional financial companies. Guess what, they do not really like Bitcoin, we don't want our names associated with this current project for now.
- We like to be judged only on the work we are doing.
- We have families, and we don't want to be publicy exposed with our project. For example, we like the way BTC-E team is making their business. They are anonymous, but they are doing the work very well. That's all that matters to us. We only used BTC-E for now, and we are very fine with that.
- S. Nakamoto was a no-name... 5 years ago.

We don't want to "outclass" Bitcoin, it's quite impossible considering it's the fundamental of each crypto currency.

However, we think we can improve Bitcoin, where the actual 390 developers can't do that much considering the Bitcoin market cap. Also, you should think about the way Bitcoin was created... They were certainly not 390 developers at this moment.

Linkedin, Xing, etc. : We do not like to expose our lifes publicly on the Internet. We don't need that, even profesionally, to have too much work to do. We have refused countless contracts the last 8 months cause of the Munich project.

GitHub : Guess what, Munich project will be our first open-source project. We will open the GitHub later, there is no hurry right now.

Why another coin ? In few words, to make it fair, well distributed, technically more advanced - without forgetting the security, accessible for all - even the average Joe, and with a panel of well-developed services around the coin.

As far as we know, even Litecoin does not have all the services we are planning to do right now.

Put your skills (if present) in an existenting coin. <<< If you talk about the core of our coin, Julian knows what he is doing with +10 years of profesional experience in C++ (and another low-level languages). Bitcoin is more a concept than a technologic "challenge". If you talk about the others things, we don't need any "experience" into a crypto currency to make our work, like we done the last ten years.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: dewdeded on March 22, 2014, 07:35:13 AM
I like your answers, alot of what you saying makes sense.
I like your systematic proceeding and you being professionals.
(That is better is better then 270 or more coins, running by amateur clowns.)

It's still very hard to find support in me for yet another coin.
Gonna watch from now.

Maybe good ideas:

1) analyze what went wrong in other coin IPO projects and big failed coin projects
2) deliver SOMETHING (like requirement specification for your new coin) more before IPO or split IPO small one now, to start project, bigger/final one end of the year/or in 3 months, when progress is visible


But good luck.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: YYmeans on March 27, 2014, 03:16:02 PM
Look at Bitcoin 0.9 release notes: 390 developers. You are three no-name people and want to improve/outclass Bitcoin?!?

If you want to keep claiming you are professional coders at least post your LinkedIn or XING-profiles or at very least links to your GitHub profiles.


Also very much unclear why another coin. We have 300 coins. Whats the motivation?

Put your skills (if present) in an existenting coin. Win-win-win for everybody.
(you, the coin u join, cryptocurrency scene - because of no failed IPO/project)



Look at man power EMunie or Ethereum project had. All failed IPOing.

agree with you , i don't think you guys could beat bitcoin devs.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: fernando on March 28, 2014, 06:09:26 PM
Hi, is there any news? IPO is supposed to start next Wednesday that this has been inactive for a week and no new work posted.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 29, 2014, 08:43:21 PM
I like your answers, alot of what you saying makes sense.
I like your systematic proceeding and you being professionals.
(That is better is better then 270 or more coins, running by amateur clowns.)

It's still very hard to find support in me for yet another coin.
Gonna watch from now.

Maybe good ideas:

1) analyze what went wrong in other coin IPO projects and big failed coin projects
2) deliver SOMETHING (like requirement specification for your new coin) more before IPO or split IPO small one now, to start project, bigger/final one end of the year/or in 3 months, when progress is visible


But good luck.


Hi, is there any news? IPO is supposed to start next Wednesday that this has been inactive for a week and no new work posted.

Hello,

Sorry for the little lack of news on our side, this week has been full of work for all of us. I have been myself away for 3 days for a big appointment -- I just came back home. Let me tell you what happen :

Julian has launched a beta 3 for the core / client. Nothing crazy to tell, all is working as it should. No new bugs has been discovered for now, we are all very happy with that right now.

Mark is working hard on the wallet UI right now. We all hope we can share with you some visuals during the first IPO the next week. Most of the work has been done, but it's still not presentable right now. I'll keep you informed very soon about that.

And on my side, I had a big appointment this last days with the CEO of a big international bank. This has come sooner than I expected, thanks to our relationships. In few words, the goal is to run a EUR, GBP and USD market on our exchange in few months. Discussions are going in the right direction for now, but I don't want to tease too much what we have in mind. All I can say is we believe we can arrange a strong cooperation between this bank and our business to facilitate the buy of crypto currencies (using visa/mastercard cards ? but in a better way in terms of security of what we seen for now. just a little hint of what we have in mind).

The main goal with this appointment is to avoid running a fiat market without a very good relationship with our bank, to avoid any kinds of problems. More details will come in the next months, it's now a little bit too early to talk more about it.

Now answering the few questions :

1) analyze what went wrong in other coin IPO projects and big failed coin projects

>>>> What is wrong is all the scams that has been done, this is harmful for serious projects, and we can't do anything more than sharing you visuals later (plus the original paper).

However, we had a great discussion the last week-end about what to do in case the IPO is not successful. Here are some new information : in case our initial IPO not going good, we will ajust the free period for our exchange between 1 and 6 months (instead of fixed 6 months). Also, in case we need more money later, we will sell some shares of our exchanges at this moment to fund our working time. The numbers are still in discussion, but we are thinking about something between 20-30% of the fees generated by the exchange in total -- and probably distributed in multiples sells. Numbers are still in discussion.

2) deliver SOMETHING (like requirement specification for your new coin) more before IPO or split IPO small one now, to start project, bigger/final one end of the year/or in 3 months, when progress is visible

>>>> No specific requirement for mining, the client and miners will just looks like that you already know. The only difference comes with the UI, but it will be compatible with OS X and Windows. Linux will come a bit later.

We will not change our calendar for the IPO, because the way we are distributing the coins require hard-coding in the core. Remember the IPO coins are not pre-mined. Once the coin will be launched, the rules for the distribution of the coin will be put definitively for the best transparency.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 29, 2014, 08:55:33 PM
agree with you , i don't think you guys could beat bitcoin devs.

This text has already been answered, we don't want to "beat" anything, we want to improve, where Bitcoin devs can't do anything. Read our paper for the improvements we are bringing.

Also, contrary to Bitcoin devs who are only developing the core, one of our main goal is to develop an eco-system of services around our coin.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 29, 2014, 09:13:59 PM
-- Important : Name and logo --

I would like to highlight an important topic : the coin name, and the logo associated to it.

If you have good ideas about the name we can choose for the coin, we would like to hear your ideas.

In case nobody feels concerned about the coin name, or no good name is found, we will choose a coin name we have in mind before the 15th April.

But we will strongly prefer if you suggest us some names.

Also, we wanted to add some rewards for the coin name picking, and also for a logo creation. We really want the community to be involved into the project, instead than doing all by ourselves.

So let's make this :

- Monday 31th March, we will open a new thread for the coin name contest. Link will be in first page. If we choose the name you suggested us for the coin, you will get free 0,5 BTC worth into the first IPO.

- Once the name will be picked, we will open a constest for the logo as well in a new thread, and if we choose your logo, you'll get 1,0 BTC worth into the second IPO.

We feel this a fair way to make a contest for the name and a logo -- but if you have a better idea for the reward, we are open to any suggestions (before we starting the constests).

If you think this way of rewarding is unfair, we also can reserve a number of coins in the developing funds to avoid touching the IPO funds.

Please let us know what do you think about it,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: TanteStefana on March 29, 2014, 10:49:45 PM
I stopped reading all the clueless replies from trolls and just wanted to tell you I just came across this thread and it's exactly what I was hoping to see in a coin for some time.

The trolls are correct, you won't make  ton of money off this one,  and that makes them think it's worthless.  But what you could make, if the coin can generate enough interest to hang on, is a decent long term investment.... maybe ... and more importantly, a real currency that can serve the population at large.

In my opinion, this is the holy grail of crypto currency.  I instantly know I'm going to support you.

Just one question, the decentralized exchange is an awesome idea that we often talk about on our Darkcoin forum.  I'm wondering if you plan on limiting this feature to the Munich project, btc and ltc, or if you'd be interested in including other coins?  I realize that could become confusing, but it would be cool if we didn't need exchanges anymore or if we could at least have a choice.  :D

BTW, I totally agree with dewdeded about analyzing what went wrong with other coins, as I think you have been.  Aroura coin is a great example, as you can see, the "air drop" was off to a great start, but the hashing network was far to small to be secure (hence the many forks) and they didn't expect everyone to dump their coins at the exchanges right away (an obvious flaw in hindsight).  So at this juncture, with so many failures, you have the advantage of hindsight.  Hopefully you will gather a good following of thoughtful people here who will help you analyze and process what's gone right and what's gone wrong.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: mcjavar on March 30, 2014, 06:17:37 PM
any news on the ipo?


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 30, 2014, 08:57:13 PM
I stopped reading all the clueless replies from trolls and just wanted to tell you I just came across this thread and it's exactly what I was hoping to see in a coin for some time.

The trolls are correct, you won't make  ton of money off this one,  and that makes them think it's worthless.  But what you could make, if the coin can generate enough interest to hang on, is a decent long term investment.... maybe ... and more importantly, a real currency that can serve the population at large.

In my opinion, this is the holy grail of crypto currency.  I instantly know I'm going to support you.

Just one question, the decentralized exchange is an awesome idea that we often talk about on our Darkcoin forum.  I'm wondering if you plan on limiting this feature to the Munich project, btc and ltc, or if you'd be interested in including other coins?  I realize that could become confusing, but it would be cool if we didn't need exchanges anymore or if we could at least have a choice.  :D

BTW, I totally agree with dewdeded about analyzing what went wrong with other coins, as I think you have been.  Aroura coin is a great example, as you can see, the "air drop" was off to a great start, but the hashing network was far to small to be secure (hence the many forks) and they didn't expect everyone to dump their coins at the exchanges right away (an obvious flaw in hindsight).  So at this juncture, with so many failures, you have the advantage of hindsight.  Hopefully you will gather a good following of thoughtful people here who will help you analyze and process what's gone right and what's gone wrong.

Thanks you very much for you kind message,

The goal of this project is not to make "tons of money" anyways, unless the project works well and our mining abilities permits us to mine lots of coins. The goal of the IPO on our side is just about buying us some more time.

About the exchange, at the moment we don't plan to add any other crypto-currency, but I'll say this subject really depends of the success of our project. For now we are focusing on our coin by itself. The day the coins and the services will not request a lot of time, and if the exchange concept is a success, we'll look about the other alt-coins.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on March 30, 2014, 09:04:56 PM
any news on the ipo?

Hello,

What kind of additional information do you need ?

The first IPO will start in a new thread the 2nd April, as stated in the original paper

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: YYmeans on April 01, 2014, 05:31:08 PM
any news on the ipo?

Hello,

What kind of additional information do you need ?

The first IPO will start in a new thread the 2nd April, as stated in the original paper

Donn

i like german project, but another IPO. i will think out it for days .then decide to be in or not.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: precrime3 on April 01, 2014, 05:36:12 PM
This coin actually looks fantastic! Having an exchange already at launch will help. Ill admit all the stuff did confuse me a bit, and the KISS principle seems to be favored. Keep me posted, will be mining!


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: LTEX on April 01, 2014, 06:31:08 PM
Three pages, still no name suggestion?

How about Shell Coin? They are known as magic coins and even the Flintstones used them  ;D


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on April 01, 2014, 08:13:04 PM
Hello,

We just made a dedicaced thread for the coin name contest : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553248.0

We are really impatient to see your ideas !

Three pages, still no name suggestion?

How about Shell Coin? They are known as magic coins and even the Flintstones used them  ;D

Can you please re-post your idea into this thread ?

Thanks you,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on April 01, 2014, 09:27:30 PM
Hello,

The first IPO has been launched in a new dedicaced thread :

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553312.0

Please use this thread for any IPO related content.

Thanks,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Benezivas on April 02, 2014, 12:02:22 AM
Hi, may I mention that KGW for difficulty readjustment might not be the best choice, regarding the timewarp exploit?


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: sudukkk on April 02, 2014, 01:45:29 AM
Wow, good job.
Quote
To make this quick : we don't like Bitcoin-Qt at all. It is slow, not user friendly, not secure for the average Joe by our standards, and not ready for the masses.
So, we made our very own wallet to hold our coin. And Bitcoins. And Litecoins.
I don't like Bitcoin-Qt wallet too.
All the coins has same wallet.
NOT friendly
Your project looks good.
I will continue follow this.
Good luck, to you and your team. :)


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: SolidStateSurvivor on April 02, 2014, 01:54:54 AM
/ The Coin /

- Scrypt-jane w/ evolutive n-factor depending of the power of the network
- Kimoto gravity well algorithm for difficult adjust
- 256 billions coins, 96% mined in 100 years. Only 6,25% the first year.
- More coins, less divisible units. 0,01 is the less you can send / receive, just like fiat
- Target block 30 seconds, PoS every 10 minutes for best security
- 15220 base reward per block for the first year. Reward * 0,935 every year (no halfing). Good distribution and inflation controlled better.
- Fees mandatory for transactions : 1 coin at least (for now), 0.01% after 1000 coins sent
- Miners forced to accept a certain amount of transactions into mined blocks
- "Summary" blocks generated by a form of PoS every 2880 blocks (24 hours) to avoid downloading the complete blockchain for "light" nodes


The least you can send. Or the least amount, the smallest amount.

Just a little help.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on April 03, 2014, 11:11:16 PM
The least you can send. Or the least amount, the smallest amount.

Just a little help.

Fixed, thanks for your help !

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on April 03, 2014, 11:14:15 PM
Hi, may I mention that KGW for difficulty readjustment might not be the best choice, regarding the timewarp exploit?

Hello,

Thanks for your comment -- you are right, KGW is succeptible to the TW exploit in it's initial implementation. However, Julian has checked this part of the code the last 2 days, and our own implementation seems just fine. More checks will follow to make sure there is no exploit in our code.

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on April 13, 2014, 07:44:10 PM
OP has been updated :

- First IPO has been cancelled due to the lack of interest , probably cause of the low reward associated to it

- Poll has been launched to let you choose what's the best way for the next Munich Project IPO : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=569468.0

- Coin name contest has been finished : we will choose the final name very soon

- Website is coming soon

- Screenshots of the wallet coming soon too. We have worked a lot on it these last days

Calendar remains unchanged for now, but will change probably soon

Donn.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Munich on May 03, 2014, 11:06:50 PM
Hello,

Here is a quick update,

We took a bit of time to resolve some new bugs we found in the core, and to discuss between us on the better way to launch our project.

We don't want to rush the start of our project, so we'll take the appropriate time to do the things well.

Website and some other little things are also under construction right now.

More informations will come the next week.

Thanks,

Donn


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: Bansheroom on May 03, 2014, 11:32:15 PM
Coin looks nice, i just have some reservations regarding the mining, hard to tell in englich, instead i will pm them to you in german now  ;D.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: dewdeded on May 04, 2014, 04:38:31 AM
This will never be convincing anyone, if you dont show work you done with this coin already.
(Screenshots, working documents, source code, ...).

Don't write another big forum text now, just show something real.


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: morris826 on May 10, 2014, 08:32:34 PM
Hello,

Here is a quick update,

We took a bit of time to resolve some new bugs we found in the core, and to discuss between us on the better way to launch our project.

We don't want to rush the start of our project, so we'll take the appropriate time to do the things well.

Website and some other little things are also under construction right now.

More informations will come the next week.

Thanks,

Donn

Is there any more information about the project yet?


Title: Re: [PRE-ANN] Munich Project - Reinventing Bitcoin - Alt-coin / Wallet / Exchange
Post by: sualesso on May 14, 2014, 08:21:21 PM
Far too long term. 4 years in the Crypto market is centuries in real world. 4 years from now we won't even be using scryptn, probably.

Hello,

We understand computing will be much more different in 4 years.

However, we had to make a choice today, and in our mind, scrypt with n-factor depending of the network total hashrate is by far the best solution.

And if by any chance scrypt with n-factor is not enough in X years, we are not against an hard fork to update the coin core to the new hardware -- we want to keep ASICS out of our coin over the time.

BTW, the total supply will not be reached after 4 years -- we are only talking about the IPO investors and the development team funding for public actions with this timeframe

Donn


keep ASICS out :)