Bitcoin Forum

Finally the bitcoin halving have already take place last week, the supply will cut in half...... we all know this piece of information

BUT

We already mined bitcoin in 85%(++) of its total supply, it makes me think that we are near to price stabilization when people will start to own it. The market cap of cryptocurrencies are less than 1% of the total fiat that we have, hence it can cover all of this however the essence of bitcoin as a investment form will fail if it happens to be less volatile than it is now and will bring the significance of bitcoin as a currency of the future.....

BUT

The logic behind the bitcoin as the future currency is rigged and makes no sense at all, this is also why gold, diamond, silver, etc. is incomparable to bitcoin because they all have a practical use that is hard to be replaced while on the other part, with bitcoin, its practical use is easy to replaced, in fact we already have better coins than it but we chose to live with its brand name.

Hope this thread will help to avoid new threads regarding 'bitcoin and gold'

it is called supply AND demand. having mined even the 100% of bitcoin would still be the "supply" part not the demand. we need adoption and until that is going on with a high speed, we continue seeing volatile increasing price.

that means nothing. specially when you are including shitcoins in it.

if it were possible then we would have seen a replacement. keep in mind that it is not for lack of trying!

i dare you to show me a "better" coin.

Bitcoin is secured by higher amount of PoW than any other coin, which means Bitcoin is miles ahead of them in terms of security. This is already a big reason to view alts as inferior, you can't entrust a global financial system to a network that can easily get attacked, as it's shown on practice with successful attacks on coins like BTG.

Bitcoin also has much better software, it's continuously tested an improved by hundreds of independent individuals. Alts are developed by small time who were just hired to do their job as long as they get paid. No wonder they have so many bugs and bad design choices that ultimately lead to losses of funds for users. 

You saying this as it would be bad thing.
If price is more volatile it attract speculative investment capital.
If it doesnt its more suitable for store of value/currency.
So either way, its good for Bitcoin, just good in different ways.

I have doubts even you will able to show true decentralized cryptocurrency except bitcoin. Most of coins those on the market now have backed by a team and they are able to influence on the price. But for bitcoin still we don't know the team behind of it, only we assume the name, not the person who have created it.

Bitcoin backed by its community, not by any organization. For digital currency you don't need existence in practical (hard copy) since it's all digital like good or whatever. Most of digital currencies works like that even out of crypto currency. So its just not a brand name, you can say it's a community name who backed the brand name of bitcoin.

Yup, 100% of bitcoin would still be the supply, and that only means we are going to see more sellers, we are set to see a new normal for bitcoin with a greater spike prices.

My point here is just, the whole crypto is just a 0.7% of the total money in the world. That's it.

Let's base with facts that ethereum serves a bigger purpose, that's why it is the best alternative  for bitcoin right now, coz bitcoin has a lot of reputation in it and that is what most of us is holding from it right now.

Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. We had already started using it as currency long time ago. Some of us treat it as investment, its all up to the user.

Hard to say there is a better coin because BTC has it secured due to it being POW, hardened by its miners. If there were better coin it should have been on top of the rank but even those forked coins are not earning a good amount of community to make it there.

You should read more before using big words like these. A lot more. (Unless you are trolling, of course.)
Also you should try to see the reality under the nice words. And keep in mind that not everybody who can write on the internet is to be trusted.

Then you may be able to see the mistake under the "better coins" idea and also under "the logic behind the bitcoin as the future currency is rigged and makes no sense at all" (I wonder where you get them from.)

ok lets take a closer look at ethereum.
it has no use cases. so far there has been thousands of smart contracts on this platform (known as ICOs or tokens) and none of them have done anything at all. basically the only actual purpose etherum has is to raise money. i don't know how you consider that to be "better" that a bitcoin that is a currency.

it is centralized since no individual is willing to or capable of running an ethereum full node. all the decisions, forks, roll back,... is being made by a company that owns ethereum trademark and holds majority of its supply.

it is not immutable. they have very easily (thanks to being centralized) rolled back their blockchain. that means you can never trust this centralized ledger to remain the same in the future. one day you may receive a coin and the next day the company can take it away.

it is so much slower than bitcoin on both propagation of a transaction and on confirming transactions (when you define confirmation as an irreversible transaction).

it is not scalable. in fact the scaling of ethereum is 10 times worse than bitcoin. we also saw extremely high fees in etherum network during 2017 ICO scam craze.

I'm not trolling, maybe I lacked of some researches but this is what I observed. Just for the count, it is from my observation, simply because bitcoin is not we really use as a alternative currency for fiat so why call it future currency. I always see the phrase " bitcoin is the future currency", "bitcoin will replace fiat soon", and other blah blah.... if that's the case and we are looking for a currency in the future then might as well we choose a better one, ethereum for use-case basis.

"I wonder where you get them from", I find it rude mate.

Fiat system is hundreds of years old and bitcoin is just 11. Compare apple to apple, not apple to pineapple!

Being less volatile will actually open up worldwide market for bitcoin. A lof of merchants don't accept bitcoin as a payment method because they of this price volatility, especially in FMCG sector where the profit margin is very low. Stable bitcoin price will definitely help these industries to accept bitcoin as one of their payment methods.


I won't disagree! Because bitcoin is too small to become future currency of the world. But we have to understand that bitcoin has shown the way how a future currency should work. Bitcoin is the pioneer. Let it be a brand name which collectors want!

^ The answer to this was given already above. It is all matter on the demand and supply which is I believed, people prefer to hold and consider as an investment than using on it in daily transactions. One of these has a potential coin is bitcoin, due to the limited supply the demand will increase and it makes an expensive value of the price in the future where there was a mass adoption and the mainstream will continue spreading. Nevertheless, I can see that the word "bitcoin" becomes the trademark for the world of cryptocurrency and I don't think it is a brand name.

You think that because you don't care about decentralization. Vitalik's blockchain is not as decentralized as bitcoin.

I believe that ethereum has its purpose as a world computer, however ethereum is still struggling to achieve its most basic purposes (such as oracles to make smartcontracts useful and PoS).

For now, Ethereum smartcontracts serves only to make ICOs, which are most of them Scams. I don't know what bigger purpose you are talking about.

Bitcoin is certainly serving a much bigger purpose: Decentralization of money, financial freedom sending move to whoever/wherever you want without authorization or verification. It is also taking power away from governments and giving it to individuals.

Ethereum cannot do that, because ethereum is basically a company. It is more robust because it is somehow decentralized, but there is still a lot of centralization around vitalik.

Cryptokitties congested ethereum network lol
CryptoKitties craze slows down transactions on Ethereum (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42237162)

But I believe that when PoS is released Vitalik's blockchain will be fast enough.

What I want to emphasize is bitcoin as running in decentralized network is not capable of being a universal currency or at least be the 2nd option for payment because we are not using it as currency. The limited supply is what made it on top and this fits to our intention, to make money through volatile asset.

What pushed me to call it a brand name is because it looks like Windows Operating System of the whole cryptocurrency, the primary of the default when you we say 'cryptocurrency'

So just because Bitcoin isn't in it's best form today, we should stop working on Bitcoin and find a new or "better" one that's 99.9% going to be inferior?

Also, stop it with suggesting Ethereum already, and stop prioritizing transaction speed and fees over security and decentralization. That's pretty much one of the most common(and the most annoying) misunderstandings of some people, "screw decentralization and security and just choose the one that's fastest and cheapest".

I mean, a lot of people are actually using bitcoin to pay for stuff though. I do pay using bitcoin myself when I could. It's just the case that not everyone is using it, which is very understandable this early on for such a extraordinary project as Bitcoin.

Don't include shtcoins pls, and even if we only take into account BTC, we can split 1 BTC into smaller amounts or satoshis which can easily accommodate everyone and besides, BTC wasn't supposed to be an investment in the long run anyhow, it turned into one because of its high volatility.

Let's take a step back and stop comparing crypto to fiat which the government unlimitedly produces now shall we? If we were to compare crypto to fiat or anything else for that matter just based on the amount or number of that certain asset, how the hell did gold and other such assets survive.

You're saying it yourself already tbh. "Because of it's high volatility, it was a great asset to be used for an investment, for trading. But because it's limits are currently approaching, it's' volatility is disappearing and hence, isn't any good for investment anymore." Here's the thing, it's supposed to be a currency, hence the name cryptocurrency. It doesn't matter what "our" as you say, intentions were, BTC was made as a currency, not as an investment.

well you should stop reading or paying attention to what random people say on social media. they say all kinds of crazy stuff. bitcoin was not made to replace anything and it is not magic money either but people still insist on calling it both. bitcoin was created to give people who want financial freedom an option that didn't exist before.

same with altcoins. don't pay attention to what some altcoin pumper tells you, or even what i tell you. you should instead try that altcoin yourself. look at its code and see if it is actually different from bitcoin or it is the exact copy (you'll be surprised how many of them are an exact copy). run their full node (real definition of a full node (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5229765.0)), try to spend that coin to buy something,... then compare your experience with bitcoin.

Altcoins are really have some impact on the bitcoin's price, and there are a lot of factors that can affect the price of any coin in the market. For example, this pandemic, halving, and etc., there are a lot of factors that we need to consider and understand about how bitcoin can strive higher than other coins that are existing.


In contrast, with gold, bitcoin is really different and have its own advantage in the market and to the people who uses it. That's right, you don't need existence in practical and it is easy to store digital currency compared to gold that you need to store in the bank or inside your house that requires a space and it is really hassle for you to do that.

If you will apply your so called brand name, then bitcoin is really the most popular and the most reliable compared to other brand names, it is just the same. Still, it will dominate the market and other brand names will still be an alternative coin to it. Bitcoin is the best cryptocurrency although it is volatile and we all know that.

I mean, every single cryptocurrency besides stablecoins are pretty much volatile. Though bitcoin's volatility definitely looks like a weakness, there's nothing we can really do in this case, as it's going to take time for volatility to slow down. Remember, bitcoin is just more than a decade old, and we can't expect an asset to be "stable" in just that short of a timespan.

Lol, I think every currency you see is there because people trust in them. So, that same trust that you have in other currencies is the same that we need in Bitcoin. Bitcoin might not be really special but all we need to do is believe in it and keep making use of it simple because we believe. When we do this, BITCOIN will keep growing and reach a high level. And if you check the background of Bitcoin, what is really holding it all these years, you will notice that it is the community.

Without this community believing in Bitcoin, it would have failed. Yes, there are lots of other cryptocurrencies out there, but because we already have trust in Bitcoin, we decided not to choose those.

Interesting viewpoint. Has some validity.  What makes BTC valuable?  one would argue the machines that mine it, but as you say Other coins can be substituted.

BTC
BCH
BSV
PeerCoin all use the sha-256 Algorithm .  This is the Algorithm with the most gear backing it.

But all of us could simply switch off BTC and mine BCH On May 31st.

I think the idea  of forking Algorithm's and allowing multiple coins to share a single Algorithm will prove to hurt all of crypto down the Road.

Fiat currencies can be volatile as well, especially in developing countries.

Look at USD BRL graphic. BRL is Brazilian fiat currency, Real.

https://i.imgur.com/dkuYiPM.png
source: https://br.tradingview.com/symbols/USDBRL/

USD/BRL was 3.70 less than a year ago, in July. It is now 5.79. That's a crazy volatility, even when compared to bitcoin.

It strikes my mind too, bitcoin is just valuable because people valued it like an expensive, a volatile one. It was the android operating system of crypto which most of people are using.
With bitcoin hash rate dropping, and hash rates of its forks are increasing, this may slow a little bit of bitcoin's part. The idea is bitcoin is replaceable by any of its fork but I doubt people would do that.
Soon the grandfather will die and the position will be taken by its grandsons. hmmm.

Bitcoins is not a brand name .

Halving was never to increase the price of Bitcoins  , it was a possibility never the necessity.

I do think when we are talking about the practical implications of Bitcoins . Trading actually do makes sense but you cannot just go and buy stuff with it .

Price stability won't be achieved until and unless the whales are okay with selling their 50% owned Bitcoins slowly over the time , which won't ever happen.

I do think one should recognize that Bitcoins is actually helping tons of people during this hard time , what can be more practical than that ?

People are earning something here .
People are doing donations here .
People are feeding the poor here .
People are buying and selling the services here.

The community is way more practical than the modern community that we live in .

Do not worry or get disappointed that the price did not increase just because everyone wanted to place bets on the halving , be Happy about the fact that during this Pandemic it was able to attain stability, not every precious metal and even the stock market is able to do that .

I do believe that Bitcoin will become more stable as the time goes by, but I am not sure this will help with adoption by merchants much. It's not like everyone's just waiting and thinking 'if only Bitcoin were less volatile'. And those worried could easily set the price in fiat and have the price in BTC updated instantly or on a regular basis. Volatility is an obstacle to truly accepting Bitcoin without relying on its price in fiat, but it's not the final obstacle.
Yeah, but when people talk about fiat, they usually mean something very stable like the USD or EUR. Moreover, while it's a big change within a year, it was happening slowly. Bitcoin, on the other hand, can easily double the price in two months (from the middle of March till the 8th of May, for instance).

First off, what does having already mined a large % of the total coin supply have to do with anything? I fail to see your point here.  Also, what do you expect, fiat currency has been around for generations.  Bitcoin has only begun.  When the value continues to climb, so will that 1% number.

The logic behind cryptocurrency is rigged, how so?  Provide evidence, proof, examples! It is absolutely not easily replaced.  What coins are better?  What you and many others fail to see is that NO OTHER COINS HAVE BEEN TRULY TESTED SUCH AS BITCOIN HAS.  This drives me insane when people say this.  Until one's coin has a price driven up to roughly $20,000...then don't tell me another coin could handle transactions better. 

You are misguided.

Only if you leave there.
Most people think that their life is the standard and everyone else is strange, but that's not like that lol

When we talk about fiat in Brazil we think about BRL, not USD. If you leave in china (where most of the world population live) you won't think money in USD terms, but in yuan.

nobody controls the market or owns the code to be able to "not-allow" forks and copycats to run the same exact bitcoin code. and i disagree with your statement because over the past 11 years we have had thousands of copycat altcoins that have been using the same exact bitcoin code (that includes but not limited to the mining algorithm) and there hasn't been any "hurt".
all the copycats disappear sooner or later BECAUSE they are copycats.

Bitcoin started it all, so I guess bitcoin deserves to attract more demand from people compared to other cryptocurrency. In addition, despite of the lacks of bitcoin, the bitcoin network especially the wallet addresses are continuously upgrading so people will have reasons to use bitcoin. Lastly, the best factor why bitcoin on a higher priority is because it opens up opportunities for investment, it is not just the name "bitcoin" that makes people choose it, but it is because there are already huge demand for bitcoin meaning, higher market price and volatility for people to earn.

Maybe you are right bitcoin is just a brand name, this is based on comparison with other coins. We know a few coins more useful than bitcoin.
For example XRP and DOGE, has a transaction fee that is cheap and fast compared to bitcoin. Then there is ETH which has a blockchain network
that is widely used by new altcoins. Seeing from all these reasons it is only natural  that bitcoin dominates more than other coins, because bitcoin
has a brand name. So many investors prefer investing in bitcoin compared to other coins.

What is the practical use of gold,silver and diamonds(other than making jewelry)?
Bitcoin is just a piece of programming code,gold and silver are just shiny metals.
Both are practically useless,but they are considered valuable because:
1.They have limited supply(scarcity).
2.Their mining is very expensive,therefore their price is high.
That's why gold and silver were used as currencies in the past and that's why bitcoin is suitable to be the currency of the future.
Bitcoin being just a brand name?Altcoins that are better compared to Bitcoin?Can you mention a few?
OP,you sound like one of those hidden altcoin supporters,who like to s*it over Bitcoin,in order to praise their favorite altcoin. ;D

Gold is used for electrical components, silver is used for wares and others things I'm not familiar with. IIRC, one of diamonds uses is for cutting glasses cleanly. So I do think that they have practical use meaning your point is kind of pointless.

Let's not forget that there are hundreds of ways to transact money in a safe and fast way but what separates Bitcoin from the others is that Bitcoin is decentralized and semi-anonymous. Because of it's technological feature, many believe they they will have freedom over their own money which is true in this case because of how there's no one who can control our own Bitcoin except for us while unlike on banks, they can freeze your account even with a slight hint of danger in your account (even if it's false).

So basically, they have uses that people find valuable. Although there are altcoins that can transact faster than Bitcoin, let's not forget that almost all of them are controlled by developers, not by a community.

Whatever it will be called, it will still be the better one than any other coins out there.

When I buy altcoins it is just for profit.
But, when I buy bitcoin it is because of the love for it and also the knowledge for the future.

How did you come up with this idea? Is there any source into where you get this kind of information?

It is a cliché thing, we all know that there is risk in using bitcoin because of volatility, we all know that, the only thing that matters here is that the importance of bitcoin in the market and how can it help grow the economy of a certain country. Engaging in bitcoin is really a good thing to do as long as you believe and trust its ability to give you huge profits in the future.


Bitcoin is really special, there is something more about this cryptocurrency, this isn't just a normal coin. It is more volatile than the other coins that are existing, YES, they are all giving you reasonable profits but bitcoin is such a different thing when it comes to higher and lower price. It is much fun for me to manipulate and hold bitcoin rather than prioritizing altcoins because its ability as a future coin really satisfies me.

To be honest, I don't think so. It's true that Bitcoin is traded a lot every day. Not only that, many people buy it for the future in the hope of making a good profit from Bitcoin. There are plenty of online sites that use Bitcoin as a payment system. The biggest problem is the lack of specific ownership of Bitcoin. Many countries have not yet recognized Bitcoin. Many countries have banned Bitcoin for their country.

The aim for the creation of bitcoin is far different from what majority of people are using it for currently, bitcoin is being seen as speculative currency that provide profits when predicted well but just like you said, this spectulative characteristics of cryptocurrencies is attributed to the price volatility which depends largely on the rate of adoption. More massive adoption will provide enought liquidity that will prevent manipulations as well as up and down of the market

Bitcoin turns out to be a speculative cryptocurrency because the rise of its value is tremendous in the past 5 years. So people are hoping to gain profits just by holding it, which is not the original idea why it was created. But somehow, we may see a different approach towards bitcoin if a large number of shops and merchants will accept bitcoin as payment method. And we will see that in the years to come...

Stabilization? That's something that bitcoin hasn't been achieve yet, which TBH I doubt it will even if all the supply will be mined.
As long as the volume of active trading is very hype or lower than the real adoption that bitcoin is use for a specific transactions, bitcoin will never be stable, the manipulation is will remain and whales against whales are battling to pump and dump the market.

I don't think I can agree of that "while bitcoin practical use can easy to replace". If you can ellaborate and show which can replace it, so I can understand why is it easy to change or whatsoever.
 Bitcoin used also as it's blockchain technology that wasn't even present to gold, diamonds, etc. They are far different.
 I don't also think that other coins may replace bitcoin, countless times I've heard about it but nothing will gonna beat Bitcoin's strong stand and use.

Well, that's normal in my opinion. Since Bitcoin is the pioneer in the field of cryptocurrency, of course it can have the most number of supporters than the rest. I guess the saying "First impression lasts" is true :D. Anyway, don't be surprise if all of us seems sticking on the branding dude because the same thing applies in the outside world. Like in fashion, we prefer Nike, Gucci, Lacoste and so many more than simple clothing. Most of us are getting crazy to have these things not mainly because of the quality but because of branding (let's admit it). It is now becoming a norm.