Bitcoin Forum

If cryptocurrency had been around in 1930, Hitler would've never risen to power, and World War II never would have happened.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~rapte22p/classweb/interwarperiod/images/hyperinflation.jpg

Think about it (http://tinyurl.com/nawq6sv). It's money they're stacking, in case you were wondering. They want to buy a loaf of bread.

Just one more reason Bitcoin is good for the world.

LOL but no.
Fractional reserve, money creation, credits etc. are actually needed to move forward. You could argue that there is no need to move forward THAT much - and it may be true, but in capitalism/ democracy there is no one to control that.
I actually read a discussion stating that if bitcoin gets more popular they may appear bitcoins banks operating with fractional reserve etc (there is another question who would accept that "money").
Of course everything should be used in moderation.

PS In 1930 gold was pretty popular...

It's an interesting idea. If not for WWII and the holocaust, bitcoin would have stopped a considerable number of negative global problems.
Unfortunately the global hashrate in 1930 would be based on rooms of workers mining blocks using pencil and paper.
And the minimum difficulty would have to be 0.001 though the telegram would make a distributed chain feasible (although laggy).
Oh, and operating the nodes would be very resource intensive. That probably is where some of generated BTC would have gone.
Fortunately this isn't 1930. It's 2014 and it's looking a lot better from this angle.

lol that picture is in my history text book  :P

and everyone who lost money in the stockmarket crash would have made it back with bitcoin

porn wouldve provably keep him occupied in the basement

I like the "provably" instead of "probably".

:D

Horseshit.

My $.02.

;)

If Bitcoin had existed in 1930, then technology would have way surpassed what we have right now, assuming you meant that Bitcoin would be the same as it is today. Yea, it probably would have changed the world, but the internet also changed the world. That would have also meant that world events could have possibly been pushed back to earlier instead so the same thing could have happened, just at an earlier date.

They would still be calling it a tulipbubbleponzi.

Enigmacoin? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enigma_machine

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-769-0229-10A%2C_Frankreich%2C_Guderian%2C_%22Enigma%22_croppped.jpg

Good thing then that Bitcoin already has moved forward with the fractional banking that MtGox did?

Why is more money needed? Real wealth is the houses, machines, foods, services and other goods that we produce. If more money solves anything, why not just add an extra zero to all the bank accounts every year and we'd soon all be trillionaires?

"Only after the last tree has been cut down. Only after the last river has been poisoned. Only after the last fish has been caught. Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.”
-Some native that got murdered by white folks.

How bitcoin could stop Hitler and the second World War?  :D

Maybe before 1913. History much?

Hitler would have supported Proof of Stake and Bitcoin would have defeated his plans to enslave the world.

its possible WW2 could have been prevented.
the Weimar Republic had to print money to pay reparations for WW1, which caused hyperinflation.
if they couldn't print money they would simply default on their debt to the allies.
unless the UK and France would have invaded (which im doubtful considering they were already very War-weary) the suffering of hyperinflation could have been prevented.
without the prolonged economic misery its entirely possible demagogues such as Hitler would not have risen to power.
then again the Weimar Republic WAS on a gold standard and simply dropped it to print money, so i guess they would simply drop bitcoin as well and force everyone to use paper money.

Hyperinflation in Germany post-WW1 resulted largely from Germany mass-printing to pay off their war reparations to neighboring nations. This hyperinflation led to a horrible depression to the point where Germans were filling wheelbarrows of money to pay for a loaf of bread.

They were poor and desperate as that nation's people had never before been. They were ashamed, and they began to felt like slaves - hopeless and resentful (sound familiar, American$?).

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Then along came a charismatic leader who promised to return Germany to its GLORY DAYS of the past, assuring everyone that Germans were a MASTER RACE and deserved their place on the throne atop the world. As a nation that was broken economically, there was only one way for Hitler to fulfill his promises...

war.

Reread those 3 paragraphs and replace "hyperinflation" with "all German people bail out of German fiat and into crypto to avoid having their wealth destroyed (=stolen by government) via hyperinflation.

Viola, no Hitler, no war.

Well, I forgot to add that fractional banking with bitcoins would be stupid, similar to gold ponzi schemes that are around, where you can "buy" gold at heavily discounted price only to find out that you don't own any gold at all, only some "shares" or something like that. Bitcoin was creates to prevent this.


Money makes money = money creates houses, machines etc.
Banks without ability to create money would mean no credits to create/ buy such goods.
Loans in fractional banking are like bets that people will pay them back - bets made with virtual money. If only real money would be used, it would mean that someone instead of investing it into e.g. new machines for factory would have to invest into bank itself by making a long term deposit.

As for adding an extra zero to all bank accounts it's basically what happend during last century by introducing concepts like minimum wage, health insurance, social security etc.

wouldnt be very useful pre- computer/ mobile

the system wouldn't be able to support a high enough transaction rate if everyone in germany moved to bitcoin in 1930.
im not even sure that in its current form bitcoin would work today if everyone in germany started using it  ???

It's a hypothetical scenario - forget the technical impossibility and just imagine that cryptocurrency (or some other, real-money global non-fiat currency exactly like it) existed.

Follow the logic of the individuals and play out the game theory.

Germans would've bailed out of their tin-pot dictator's fiat currency, opting instead for crypto - just like struggling Argentinians are doing RIGHT NOW as we speak.

Make no mistake, this technology will help humanity transcend the need for both bloody revolutions and bloody wars.

It is absolutely a step in the right direction, away from the dominance of the nation-state and toward empowering the individual.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm............

Heavy, dude!

Heavy but utter nonsense I think.

My $.02.

;)

A decidedly unconvincing argument.

Anyone who thinks fractional banking (aka legal counterfeit) is a good thing is an idiot, or works for the dark side.

It is not needed to move ahead. Central banks are not needed. Scientific progress is not a function of the money supply.

In ancient history much progress was made without fiat and without fractional lending

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/06/View_from_Pyramide_de_la_luna.jpg/800px-View_from_Pyramide_de_la_luna.jpg

Hyperinflation in Germany was a symptom not the direct problem.  WWII was a direct result of asinine conclusion of WWI.  If Bitcoin existed (and was the sole global currency) WWII would have happened exactly as it did.  Remember money is merely an accounting system.  Germany had plenty of real wealth.  Most of WWI was fought OUTSIDE of Germany and while Germany "lost" they retained a massive industrial complex which rivaled their neighbors.  Now their neighbors decided to "punish" Germany in the peace treaty with utterly asinine conditions and Germany decided ... how about we stop paying the equivelent of 30% of your GDP in war reparations.  Of course once they broke that conditions (w/ no consequence) it became very easy to see how/why they broke all the other conditions (keep to prewar borders, remain demilitarized).

The short/simple version:
Making a peace treaty which "punishes" the more powerful nation who happened to lose the previous war and then not backing that up with military might is almost certainly going to lead to a second war.

None of those of course excuses the atrocities committed by Germany but in hindsight WWII was inevitable given the resolution of WWI.  Bitcoin wouldn't have changed that.

lol, perfect description.

Wars start because humans like war. It's in our nature. Nothing can stop wars from happening until you lobotomize everyone on the planet. Someone somewhere will eventually find a justification for war.

If you want to mention a historical marker that Bitcoin could have solved try the 2008 bank failures. They happened because of fractional reserve banking that wouldn't exist if everyone used Bitcoin and kept it in their own wallet. 

its possible bitcoin could have prevented the weimar republic's hyper inflation (because they wouldn't be able to print money).
although this would have caused them to default on the reparations it would allow them to start producing goods again and would prevent or lessen the economic suffering that they had in the 30's.
this in turn might have stopped hitler from rising to power thus likely averting ww2.

The same thing could have happened without Bitcoin.   Hyperinflation didn't cause Germany do break the peace treaty.  The punitive peace treaty is what lead Germany to break it.  Germany could have been on a gold standard (forget that they could have been using pure gold coins) a peace treaty which imposed a penalty in excess of 30% of Germany GDP was simply broken.  It produced real economic and social suffering "at home".  At some point people are going to say "WTF?  He got factories lets just spend 30% of our GDP on making guns and bombs and stuff instead of handing it over to foreign powers".  Of course Germany could have just broken the reparations portions, but treaties as simply promises.  It becomes easier to break all of the promises once you start breaking some of them. 

WWII was inevitable given the asinine decisions made at the close of WWI.

Lets take
a) a nation with a massive industrial complex
b) history of military aggression
c) political will to justify expansion through military force
d) a belief (dubious as it might seem) that the territory (namely Poland) was fairly conquered and then "stolen" in the post-war treaty.

Now lets add
a) punitively impossible post war terms
b) absolutely no mechanism to force compliance with said terms.
c) a group of nations that when Germany began to break terms didn't react swiftly and decisively.

Oh look, who could possible imagine that the nation would break the terms are return to expansion through military might.   I mean it seems utterly implausible in hindsight right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3_lVSrPB6w

Much better if Stalin and Mao hadn't risen in power...commies suck. Sorry if this comment is off-topic, but a dictator is a dictator, doesn't matter where he/she comes from. Also, political correctness cannot be considered as a factor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor)
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html (http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html)

WW2 would have been a different, probably much smaller conflict, without fiat.

Fiat and central banking was what really drove America and GB into WW2 - to cope with their crisis after 1929. You really believe they were doing it for humanitarian reasons to help out Poland?!

The same people that benefit from fiat were also interested in turning Adolf's, lets call it, merger with his neighbors, into WW2. Germany never attacked Britain or America, rather those nations declared war against Germany.

Now the question is, will high finance once again try to solve their problem by turning a local conflict in Ukraine into WW3?  :o

Verrryyyyyyy interesting!*

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc174/tomfuchs/arte_johnson_8_x_10.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/tomfuchs/media/arte_johnson_8_x_10.jpg.html)


My $.02.

;)

* "Laugh In" reference!

So you really think that if the third world war begin now bitcoin will help somehow? I don't think so

fractional reserve isn't inherently bad, as long as every one can do it, not just the state.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/EnigmaMachineLabeled.jpg/330px-EnigmaMachineLabeled.jpg

Everything was going so swell till them Damn Yankees cracked the hash code after the Marks (pun intended) lost his its value.

Um, I think you'll find the Enigma was broken by Damn Poles and Damn Brits, not Damn Yankees.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"
-George Santayana

Computers however are one of the positive outcomes of the second world war.

True, but this would've come about eventually, sooner or later. Things were already heading in that direction before the war, everything was just accelerated during wartime.

Internet had not been invented then. Nobody would be using them as they do today

If bitcoin had existed in 1930 I would be rich by now :) :)

Perhaps ourg grand grand parents would live some BTC for us :P

People are really running out of ideas about Bitcoin stuff to talk about.

Well or maybe we are just starting to have better ideas about what to talk about :)

I am spending ~10 hours daily @Bitcointalk and I see we are talking about so so many different things and topics to talk about will never finish ;)

Aren't there some books you could be burning somewhere? Why come to the internet to censor communication, where we will all just laugh at and mock you?

 8)

Would the Germans have been able to pay off the fines levied after the Treaty of Versailles in bitcoin?

Or would they have been allowed to create their own cryptocurrency and pay off the debt that way?

People like to blame Hitler for World War II because it is convenient, but the roots of the conflict arose from the mis-handling of the Treaty of Versailles and punitive crippling economic sanctions imposed by the victors in 1919. There might have not been the possibility of a "Hitler"-type character in Germany in the 1930's had the previous war been settled correctly and a stable Germany recovered from the defeat.

I can;t get the "unwatch" feature to work on this ridiculous thread..

Any help on the matter out there?

Thanks in advance.

My $.02.

;)

First of all, they would have need the PC and internet to have bitcoin taken off.  Without the World Wid Web, nothing would have been possible unless we had Voice Currency.

You can press "Watchlist" -> Edit watchlist -> mark this thread and delete :)
Regards.

I agree! That's my entire point! "crippling economic sanctions" -> crippling for the German PEOPLE -> if the people had a way to totally avoid that crippling economy, by divesting their wealth from their nation's fiat (read: fake) money into global crypto, don't you think they would have done so?

We certainly would today. Many smart people are doing exactly that, as I write this.

@Beliathon- we are definitely on the same page with this!

Anything that prevents tyrants, whether they be a single dictator, or a dictatorial tyrannical government, is worthwhile.

This is just a hypothesis.

Sounds good to me...  So it seems that we need ourselves a time machine and we get things back on track.   8)

Bitcoin could ndot have existed in 1930 so this thread is entirely pointless.

How in the Hell do I get the "unwatch" feature to work?

Nothing I try seems to affect things.

My $.02.

;)

I have one in my garage :P come to me :) we will make some party and after we will jump to past :)
Take some rolling papers with ya on the way :P

Make no mistake, this technology will help humanity transcend the need for both bloody revolutions and bloody wars.

It is absolutely a step in the right direction, away from the dominance of the nation-state and toward empowering the individual.

You're right, if there was a bit that has long been the currency of the currency.

AN!

Thank you!

I will give your advice a shot and endeavour to persevere!

My $.02.

;)

No, thank you! For bumping this excellent and important thread.

Well, excellent though this thread may be, if it is considered important, I would suggest that some of us may have too much time on our hands..................................................

......and may need to give consideration to re-evaulating certain priorities.

Just kidding!

LOL!

My $.02.

;)