Bitcoin Forum

Hello, few minutes ago price of BTC went from 8700$ to 9000$

I haven't searched it here neither googled it but how and why does this happen? Sorry if it sounds stupid. Does it have to do with buying? Did many people bought bitcoins that time? That's why it got increased?

And now as we speak, btc is already in the $10k level. I guess you have a lot of things to know about crypto. Very simple, the price is driven by supply and demand concept. Though we don't know the exact reason why it is going up but there are a lot of contributing factors about this price change. You really can't get the answer just by googling it because there is no definite answer why btc is increasing.

Yeah orders get listed on an exchange and get taken by someone who sees it as reasonable in price.

These orders can be considered as walls, the equilibrium point (where we are) is the current price it's bought for. In the order book there are bidding prices and asking prices and either can be filled by someone with enough funds to clear. As more buys occur, we climb the wall, as more sells occur we absail or drop down it).

If you've ever done a market buy, you're just telling the exchange to pick the best available rate for you which might not be as favourable but it's faster at getting filled.

So basically you can say that millionaires of localbitcoins and other selling sites kinda control the price?

I assume you mean the push to $10K just now? $8,700 to $9K happened last week.

In simple terms, yes, buyers took all available asks on the order book, driving prices higher.

In more complex terms, price was ranging sideways for days. When price is ranging sideways, people are buying and selling and longing and shorting, so when price finally breaks out of the range, lots of traders and investors are piled on the wrong side of the market. So breaking above the May 30th pivot caused lots of panic buying.

I mean I doubt they're happy to keep wasting money if it doesn't go their way then sure... Lbc charge 1% and a lot of other sites charge quite a bit (although coinbase reduces fees on high amounts of trades).

Sounds you are right but usually btc price go up because of market strong demand imagine btc is trading around the world and when  this traders see potential reason to buy and collect huge profit the demand will increase and the price will skyrocket in minutes but you can also consider that btc market is also highly manipulated by whales. 

The market value of Bitcoin is usually controlled by demand and supply; how much are investors willing to pay for it, and how much are sellers willing to sell at? This drives the price on exchanges. You should note that the price of BTC can be different on various exchanges due to difference in bids and sells. Sites like CMC averages the price on the various exchanges.

Influence the price is a better word. Reason being that you can not be sure that your trade would be reflected instantly on the market. It's a high risk strategy to try and raise the price by raising the amount you're willing to buy at, you would need to be making a very large trade, and there are no guarantees.

There are other factors that affects demand and supply, and will determine whether the general sentiment is bullish or bearish

yeah, it is small amounts market still, and large holders can influence the price, not to mention people that want to dive in crypto with a lot of cash, they could influence bullish momentum easily, last year there was a three month bull market, following guy that entered crypto with 100 million USD (20000 BTC at that moment, which is 0,1% of total market), similar action could not do anything on established stock markets

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currencies/bitcoin-jumps-20-percent-mystery-order-seen-as-catalyst-idUSKCN1RE0JY

Some links to read up for that simple idea of supply and demand https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/law-of-supply-demand.asp
This do particular connects on the situation that you had mentioned. If price rose into that level on a particular time then that signifies that
demand increases and this do most likely happen on current exchange platforms that we know where buy orders been filled out .
Its pretty basic to understand but when we do talk on whats the actual reason why demand increases? then thats the time we can
say that there are lots of factors.

In simpliest terms...

When a stock or crypto goes up in value its because the demand exceeds supply. So either more buying than selling OR lack of selling and some buying. Keep in mind that its a 2 way street, sometimes people are short and they need to cover. So they need to buy back what they sold. If they are on the wrong end of the market they will end up buying it higher than they sold it for and lose the difference, this is known as a short squeeze.

Many markets works this way, not just crypto markets. Stock markets also. Why does the stock market go higher even though unemployment is high? Because people can't stop buying stocks and people that own stocks refuse to sell. Hence leads to buying pressure.

That is what happens with the bitcoin price. Many people amaze with that, but the other people will be okay with that. That is because many people place their order to buy and sell bitcoin at the same time, and that makes the price change every minute. But sometimes, the order is not filled but only move, and that is because the order was placed by the bot which doesn't want to buy bitcoin, but the bot only runs the price.

But sometimes, there is a big order place to buy and sells bitcoin, and that can make the price can jump so high or down so deep. If you want to buy and sell bitcoin like the other traders, make sure you can analyze to get the right price that you can accept.

It's not to the point of controlling it, but they do have a large enough influence to affect the price, albeit temporarily. Price jumps up because someone decided to buy BTC at the average price, leaving the sell orders with higher prices. This moves the average price, which then slowly increases the highest price there is. The same occurs whenever the price jumps down but vice versa, someone decides to sell BTC at the average price. This eliminates buy orders at a higher price, making the leftovers the ones at the lower price.

Besides, even with huge buy and sell orders, BTC could still go down and up depending on the overall influence of it on the market. Basically speaking, it's supply and demand.

It goes up if the demands for buying goes high. And it goes down when majority of the holders are starting to dump it, otherwise, it's just the whales or some individuals that has huge holding started to sell it at the same time.
The idea of buying low and selling high is connected to it. When people tells you to buy at the dips, they're just suggesting correctly because the market is going down and the price is gone cheaper.

Control is not the right term, but manipulation.
No one could ever control the price of Bitcoin.
But, somebody out there with a big massive bag can manipulate the price as they can influence the price movement specially when they are doing massive sell-off or buy out.
The Bitcoin increase may have been started and influenced by these so called "millionaires or billionaires" in crypto space. Followed by the market sentiments.

So, technically speaking, when Bitcoin increase it's value is because of the buying volume increased.

Yes it is, it's not a stupid question I have the same question when I was just starting out, and it's ok to ask for a reference when people are selling there could be a dip when so many or majority are selling there is a possibility of a crash, it's all go out on who got the majority the sellers or the buyers that tells us if it is dip or surge or a bear or bull. 

If the price of something is increasing means the demand got increased which literally means more people buying than selling so if you see a price rise means more people are interested in buying for whatever reason.You can also speculate and make people to buy more which will increase the price.

There is really no way of understanding which movements are speculation and which movements are regular crypto movements. You could have some whale buying/selling to change the price like crazy and that would obviously hurt the market but there is no way to stop it, or maybe it was just bunch of people all doing the same thing and when they do it others join them and market changes organically, which doesn't hurt the economy because its actually what people want.

Neither of those could be somehow separable from each other, maybe the only method would be seeing whale_alert telling us there is a big movement going on but that's about it, if you can't see it there and you can't find who did what, exchanges do not give you the option to see if that $10k bitcoin purchase was collective or just one guy.

I am not an expert but whenever the situation comes to a sudden change whether it goes up or down my opinion is there might be a group of whales behind that can change the situation whatever they like.

You mean manipulation? I also think like you. sometimes when the market is about to have a big fluctuation, the whales have money transfers on exchanges. In Whale Alert on Telegram, every time there are large amounts of transactions, it is detected. Therefore, we can conclude that this market is controlled by a large group of people with bitcoins. so technical analysis will sometimes be incorrect.

Speculative Questions have the most creative potential because they suggest a hypothesis. speculation rather than facts. engagement in business transactions involving considerable risk but offering the chance of large gains, especially trading in commodities. Speculation is the buying of an asset or financial instrument with the hope that the price of the asset or financial instrument will increase in the future.

Bitcoin accounts shows that Bitcoins are mainly used as a speculative investment and not as an alternative currency and medium of exchange. Speculative Questions have the most creative potential because they suggest a hypothesis. Speculation is the buying of an asset or financial instrument with the hope that the price of the asset or financial instrument will increase in the future.

I rather think people following whale alerts on Telegram and then jumping aboard all these hundreds of signal groups does more for market manipulation than any other whale on its own.

Not blaming or pointing fingers. I coughed up to join a group myself a couple of years back and saw all its ugliness for what it was.

As your topic is, speculation is like say what you think to happen. It is not certain to happen. So what you do is to put your hope on that to happen and if is comes you are lucky. Most of the time you look towards the technological strategy you have.

If we assume that Satoshi opens a site and starts selling his bitcoins for 1$ each, will this affect the price? Will it reduce it hugely?

Exactly, because with this signal groups you can make mass effect and larger number of people will make their actions. Whales are not so influental and their impact on the market is not as big as might think
Of, course everyone decides for himself and does what he wants but these signal gropus have big deal in speculation and at the end they make more harm than any use at all.

Not only in crypto market, just take the whole world as an example if more people are buying something particularly and there are only less people are selling it means the people who have urge to buy will pay more and will grab their product which is the thing happens with the crypto market price movement as well.

Their direct impact is minimal and temporary, but a drop in an ocean in the big scheme of things. It is the cumulative impact of the great many who sway the sentiment in the end. Self fulfilling prophecies have a way of making themselves obvious when people see what they are looking for. Like I said, I've been in those channels myself so I get it!

Bulk buying and bulk selling are really having a huge price impact on the market. With that case (as we assume), it absolutely whales will make the bulk buying and so do I, of course.

We live in this volatile market, everything seems to be unpredictable. We usually do speculations but that just we all assuming and nothing it guarantees in the ends. Crypto investment is spreading and as well as the adoption, and this will be the reason that we can never saw the price turning back to $1 nor a person could sell it with that price.

It's impossible but if satoshi sells his coins for $1 each. Many will buy and sell it to the exchanges in less than a minute while the price is $9k and the cap will definitely drop when support level breaks because of the number of coins being sold.  The price will lie to the bids of the buyers which is how much a trader is willing to buy and that will be its current price.

There will be more supply in the entire circulation if satoshi do that and that means the bitcoin will become cheaper. But this IF statement is unlikely to happen.
But if a whale does this, why would he be selling cheap bitcoins at a steal? I don't think that this will ever happen.

Welcome to the crypto market Volatility mate,if you are serious about your question?then it will occur every hour or days?because this is a normal market flow and this serves as indicator that the market is Active and healthy.

Imagine the prices of crypto doesn't move for a whole day or more?i am sure you will be in bad thinking if that happens.

That is what the economy calls Supply and the Demand ,that dictates the market movement and the vaue of each currencies being traded in this market.

First of all if Satoshi manages to open a website that can sustain that much requests, that would require no way "hide the codes of the nukes of the world" level of traffic sustaining website, at least 100 million people will try to go to that website. However, let's assume traffic holds and website actually works, if he sells each bitcoin for 1 dollars, people will buy it out in 30 seconds tops, wouldn't even take that long probably but I just wanted to give it some time, say 10 minutes if you want, in short it would be super quick.

Would this cause a drop in the price for a while? Sure it would, people who bought it for 1 dollars will sell it for 10k right away and suddenly everyone will sell and cause it to be maybe under 1k once again. But, eventually it will go higher than 10k because there is no more satoshi and no more bulk coins in anyone anymore.

Selling bitcoins for $1 is already an impossible stuff so from that alone we can already say that this is a "What if" question that wont likely to happen or even impossible.
No one in right mind will surely sell off those coins in the current market price ever they do able to grasp the chance on getting it all. They know that price can even go way more
high in near future. Coin circulation did increase but doesnt mean that market price will decline since theres no huge sell off that do happen.

It's okay if there are people that are creating situations of impossible what ifs as long as we can inline it with possible answers. We know that the situation given is funny and no one will be selling that amount but he's given that if it's Satoshi.
So that very personality can possibly who knows give that giveaway and steal to everyone. But anyway, let's move on and forget about these what ifs and go on to the next topic.  :)

It is not impossible, we are talking about satoshi opening up a website himself and selling all his bitcoins for 1 dollar per coin, now obviously nothing like that would ever happen, satoshi is not an idiot and he probably has enough money to survive otherwise he would simply sell his coins.

However one thing is uncertain, do you guys really think he still holds keys to his coins? I feel like dude decided he himself can't trust himself so maybe he burned all the information regarding his coins and destroyed all connections to it so even if he wanted to and even if he worked really hard for it, there is no more chance to get it back? That is one way of thinking, because if that is the case that means nobody has too many bitcoins, even including satoshi, which means bitcoin can't drop in price too quickly.

There are hundreds of unique factors which relate to the price rise and fall. It falls mostly because miners want to redeem their BTC in cash and so a sell-off takes place, or some whale enters and decides to buy/sell BTC and wants to pay premium or wants them at lower price, then you may see a shake off in the markets. If there's a buy order that's set below the current market price but it has lots of money involved and the whale slips it down every time it gets reached, then a sell off may take place. When sellers are exhausted and bigger whales want smaller ones to buy their BTC for a premium rate, they increase the price a bit and sell them to those smaller ones at higher rates.

It all matters with Supply and demand!

In simple Economics class then when theres demand then there would be significant change in price and if theres none then expect neither it would
go down or would be moving sideways.This is why we do have traders which do trade up crypto neither they would come after for a rise or would
wait for a fall down.This had been always like this and in order to make up some bucks then speculative analysis is always been a common thing.

300$ movement in a brief period is basically someone hoovering up available supply and requiring some of the higher priced contracts in order to fulfil that volume of buying.   When I say someone it can be one person, one person representing a collective group like a company or trust or it might be a group of people in one area of the world who all have the motivation to buy BTC at that moment perhaps to bet on an event or similar kind of usage.
  On top of natural movement, of course we have speculation even within a normal buyer appearing the traders on an exchange will notice and take part in the rise in order to sell higher then they just bought and people will spend all day looking for that opportunity.

Whales have been manipulating the market ever since. So that is possible, although it might be very hard today because of so many market players.


Definitely this is still the basic economic law that govern even bitcoin market. Currently the demand is just so-so, that's why the price is just hovering $9k++ range and other call this boring movement. Simply put, demand is low as show by the lower trading volumes we have seen in the last couple of weeks, after a push to $10.5k.

We can follow the whales by analyzing the market movements. Although we can not always make the biggest profit, we can still make a profit. That is why we don't have to listen to other people's speculation because we can analyze ourselves. We can learn from their analysis, but we still need to analyze to find more signs from their analysis. That will be useful for us to determine the time to enter the market.

as if things are that simple?

if does then many of us now must be profiting and there will be no loser?

Following the whales trading history is not that easy task.

They are very secretive because they don't wanna leak their manipulation and their bagging of money.

Step closer if you can but i doubt that you'll find it that easy.

Whales realized that there are not that many regulations on crypto like there is on other stuff, this is what they are actually doing.
I mean for example if all exchanges agree to the fact that bitcoin can't be bought at over 10 million dollars worth of it in 1 day, that means anyone who has an account would be only able to buy 10 million dollars worth of it. Would it drop volume and liquidity?

A TON but that would be sacrificing I would be willing to make. That way we would know that nobody could just buy 500 million or sell 500 million worth of bitcoin and just destroy the market, they are manipulating t with their money and it hurts a lot. Look at all the future traders, sometimes longs are a lot so shorts liquidate them, sometimes shorts are bigger and longs liquidate them, that manipulation hurts us.

Yes, it is as simple as that. No, we can not profit if we don't know how to follow behind the whales. Yes, it is not an easy task to follow the whales trading history, but if you can analyze better every day, you will know when the whales enter the market, and you will have a good time to follow behind them. I can not always behind on the whales because I don't trade every day now. You can try by yourself ;)

Half hour ago price went to from 8250€ to 8350€.  Does this mean that many people agreed to sell it in that price? Why?

Later, it went again to 8250€.