Bitcoin Forum

I remember reading something a while back (like 2 months ago) about about what's supposed to be THE best desktop client to use for managing wallets. I could be way wrong on this because I was reading a ton of stuff when I came across it, but it was touted to be the most secure one available and that it could be used on an infected system without worrying about coin loss or something.

I don't remember too much about it other than a f ton of people here said they use it.

I sorta have an idea on what the client name is now that I'm really thinking about it but I kinda wana hear what everyone has to say in case I am wrong.

Edit: Right now I use blockchain and with recent issues with them, it's got me thinking of alternatives since I still have almost a full BTC in shared send limbo that this CZ guy keeps saying is please let us know if you need more help without telling me how they can help me out since this was their F up.

There is nothing that can prevent you from losing coins from a wallet that is stored on an infected system. The malware will be able to copy your wallet-file as well as record any password you type in.

If you want to protect against malware threats, you should employ a cold wallet on a machine that is not connected to the internet. The Armory wallet software can be used to manage such a setup.

If you use a regular wallet on an online machine, then there are no major differences in security between the major wallet clients.

Do you remember where were you reading about the best desktop client?

Armory?

https://bitcoinarmory.com/ (https://bitcoinarmory.com/)

Possibly, Electrum.

I think it was a combo of bitcoin-qt/d + armory after doing more investigating... still not sure on the infected PC part since in hind-site it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I'll check out Electrum & multibit though... FWIW, is there such a sotware that does both LTC & BTC wallets, I guess even NMC but mostly just BTC & LTC ?

Ty.

Technically you could use armory on an infected system.  As long as you have a clean usb boot for the offline portion, the online portion doesn't store any private keys.  Now, a really sophisticated virus could technically change your transactions so that you sign one that sends him your bitcoins, but that's really slick and as long as you double check before signing you're ok.

What I'd like to do is just buy a small netbook or something I could put say armory and bitcoin-qt/d on an go that route... only thing though is I read up on the whole offline thin with armory to be as rock solid as possible with cold storage but it kinda gave me a headache. Was talking about taking a USB stick, putting x on it and taking it to y etc.

I mean how can you truly be offline if bitcoin-qt/d needs to be online to always have current blockchain data ?

You can use the netbook and install the offline version, then you keep the online version with bitcoin-qt running on your regular computer.  The offline computer doesn't need bitcoin-qt

I assume you mean an offline version of armory and qt/d, then he main PC would be the online version of armory and qt/d. The only thing though is I still don't really get how it would work. I tried to read up on it but it was a bit too on the technical side for me.

About all I understood was taking a USB stick with data from the offline version and taking it to a system with the online version but with the offline system always being offline, how does it keep accurate data on wallet balances etc and then the blockchain deal ? Or does the offline just need armory whereas the online is armory and qt/d ?

If you don't mind would you kinda do a run down of how it would work i you wanted to send me say 0.1 BTC or something using an offlin / online system ?

Ty and sorry for being a nuisance / PIA.

Edit: Even with a ofline / online setup, I try to kep my systems free of viruses but even with such a setup cant I still be jacked if I missed a virus with he online system ?

There are two parts to a bitcoin transaction -- the instructions (send 0.1 btc from X to Y) and the signature, which authenticates that you own the coins in X.

The online computer has armory, your addresses, and bitcoin-qt.  It doesn't have your private keys, so it can't actually authorize any transactions.  But it knows your balance, just as if you had typed your address into blockchain.info.  So you can use it to construct an unsigned transaction.

The offline computer has armory and your addresses + private keys.  It has your private keys so it can sign the transaction that the online version created.

To make a transaction:

1.  On your online computer, you create the unsigned transaction.  This says "send 0.1 btc from X to Y".  Save that transaction to a USB drive

2.  Take that USB drive to your offline computer.  Armory will sign the transaction with your private key and save it back to your USB drive.

3.  Take that USB drive back to your online computer and use armory to broadcast the signed transaction over the network.

All that a virus could do is alter the transaction.  So if you made a transaction to send 0.1 from X to Y, the virus could theoretically change that transaction to send 0.1 from X to Z, where Z is the hacker's address.  Then if you sign that transaction in the offline armory it'll send to Z.  But when you sign with the offline armory it'll ask you to double check that you really want to send to Z.  So as long as you do double check the send-to address when signing you'll see that it's been mysteriously changed and you'll know that you've got problems.  Since the online computer can't sign messages since it doesn't have private keys you're pretty safe.

After you've signed the transaction, say from X to Y, a hacker can't change the destination address because then the signature won't match up.

Thx for that, it explains a lot better than what I read on the armory site. As for your reply to my edit, thats good to know. So if y ends in 1234 I just need to make sure when the offline asks to confirm that I see that 1234 at the end.

FWIW, I probably wouldnt use the online armory + qt/d on my main system but instead buy something like two decent laptops or netbooks or something that are specifically tasked for no browsing, gaming etc and just running the bitcoin stuff. Even then the online system can probably still be infected but less likely than the "every day" system.

What I read says for offline a computer with at least 256mb of RAM will suffice. However, with the online version also having qt/d it's resource intensive. So kinda not sure what sort of ram one might look for with that. Disk would be at least 100Gb CPU I assume at least 2Gh which just leaves RAM.

Basically I'd want to buy two small netbooks / laptops where they don't have bells and whistles as the saying goes but jus have the "right stuff" for having one being online and the other offline.

As for the USB stick, I was looking at this instead of going standard with say a drive from Walmart or something: http://visionman-btc.com/collections/all/products/ultralock-portable-data-encryption-device

They have another version with a keypad of sorts but that looks like it'd be more trouble than it's worth.

I don't think there's much point to using an encrypted drive to move the transactions back and forth, since you're going to publish them publicly anyway.  And you'll need a printer to print your armory backup key as well.

dont worry about the RAM.  any modern computer will have enough.  you only need lots of RAM when you're doing something memory intensive like video editing, gaming, or running lots of programs at the same time.

So any $20 USB stick would be fine then, that's cool, I got plenty of those. I guess what I need to sit down and do now is just figure out a nice but not too expensive laptop / netbook or whatever that I can get for the online version. A system for offline is easy enough to find just about anywhere for $100 give or take.

It says right on Armorys site though that it's resource intensive so it would have to have at least I assume 4Gb for armory and qt/d. My VPS I host minecraft and bitcoind on for stats has 3Gb and runs pretty good.

doubt you'd necessarily need that much, but better to err on the side of more memory if youre worried about it

Most anything now a days is gonna with with at least 3Gb unless I find a old school refurb with like 2Gb but ya, I'd rather err on the side of caution with memory just in case.

I guess technically I wouldn't need something separate from my main system for the online version as long as I'm diligent about checking the confirmations on the offline system so that would save a bit of cash that doesn't really need to be spent.

After this blockchain fiasco that still has almost 1BTC of mine in shared limbo and this blockchain CZ rep guy saying the same canned shit over and over that it should be fixed now without telling me how they can help get the money back for a fuck-up that was theirs it gets one to thinking about alternatives.

I am curious about one thing to know if I'm wasting my time and should just cancel what's currently in progress.

Right now I'm downloading the chain on my laptop and I installed the bitcoin client to an external USB connected HDD. That said, when the chains done downloading, assuming I always leave it connected so it stays current. Can I do something like this when I get the netbook that's "bitcoin only".

1) Get netbook, setup bitcoin-qt/d on it.
2) Take alreeady up to date chain from external drive and put it on he netbook.

So is that doable or should I just cancel the current dl, remove bitcoin-qt/d and wait til I get the netbook to do everything ?

Edit:

My phone just notified me of a payment received from a pool and this got me to thinking. Say I dont use the offline for a week cause I have no need to send funds. Well, say during that week, hell, even if I was using the system... I received say 0.57935058 BTC. How is the info updated to the offline system thus keeping wallet balances in sync between the two systems ?

My understanding of how it is supposed to work it is that the online wallet watches your balance. The off-line wallet stores your private keys. The balances do not need to be in sync.  When you want to create a transaction you create from off-line, sign it and then import it onto your online system.  Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

Found a lot of useful info here. Thanks!

The offline wallet never knows your balance, it only knows how to sign (authorize) transactions.

You can pre-download the blockchain, but it'll just save you a day or so, it's probably not worth the effort.