Bitcoin Forum

At the point when the pandemic shed it's milk teeth, investors and individuals became aware of how vulnerable fiat is in a situation of an economic meltdown. After the lockdown, that left the economy staggering, we've seen the printing of more money out of thin air that can create inflation, third world economies and poor countries are as well going to be hit with recession and possible hyperinflation. What all this means is the devaluation of the fiat currencies. But I've been closely monitoring gold/bitcoin prices during this pandemic, in case you didn't know, gold price surged above 2k per ounce for the first time ever last week and analysts think it can get to 4000 in a few years (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/10/gold-prices-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-and-us-elections.html).

Bitcoin has also surged to 11k despite the pandemic, imo gold and btc are somewhat "safe haven" assets, this pandemic is a real test to know how well they can hold up investors funds, when everything is crashing and they have been doing great in the market, the number of people that will turn to these assets as time goes on will continue to increase, to evade inflation and the devaluation of their money in their bank accounts, and it will continue to push their prices up.

P.S. I do not think it's early to tag them as safe assets, people previously said they were yet to be tested in a dire situation, for me, that test came this year, with the pandemic and it's effects.

Make that $12k as bitcoin has break to the price today.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-price-tackles-12-000-after-breaking-through-a-key-resistance-zone



I think gold is safe, that's proven through ages already, bitcoin on the other hand might be performing the unexpected this year, I can't say it's safe to invest in bitcoin as I have not see its stability yet, it's price bullish movement in short term doesn't prove that it's a safe asset to invest with, however, I believe that bitcoin is going to grow in the long run, but it's volatility will continue to show, hence I don't call it safe.


I think it's early for bitcoin, not on gold.  :)

I think there is no such "safe investment" because all have risks, in terms of gold the risks are low because it is proven over time that its price is gradually increasing but in terms of bitcoin, I do not see it as safe investment because of its volatility. There are a lot of factors that should be considered before investing through bitcoin like proper risk management especially about allocation and stop loss levels and also validating the trend in order to know when is the right time to enter and exit in the market.

Although I agree with most of the analysis you make, I'm not sure that most people will buy bitcoin to protect themselves from fiat devaluation.

I wish that was the case, and if we look at what has happened recently, it seems that way, but if we look at what happened at the beginning of the pandemic, it was not like that at all.

People sold assets to get liquidity, and everything went down, including gold and bitcoin. Now we are in a calmer situation but at any time people can start selling to get liquidity.

After all, for most people, bitcoin is an asset, not a currency. (Not for most people on the forum.)

Gold has been a safe asset even before the creation of fiat currencies but about bitcoin, it is becomming stronger year by year, many countries are now accepting bitcoin as a form of payment, many countries have even legalize it. In italy, bitcoin is the third latest payment methods after Paypal and credit cards, the USA has over 6000 bitcoin ATMs, bitcoin is used to pay in hotels, dancing bars and used as other means of payments in Slovenia. This years 2020, Australian residents can now pay for bitcoin at more than 3,500 national post offices, French court considers bitcoin money, cryptocurrencies are now legitimized in South Korea, Australia and India. Also, there are many charity given in the world accepting bitcoin as a payment method. These are just few of such above.

With all these said, bitcoin is not at any experimental stage again but is not a currency to be called money. So, people should consider bitcoin as a safe asset.

Only the issue on ground now is the invention of quantum computers, the primitive quantum computers is never a problem, the problem are the ones that will be created later which will be more sophisticated, but indeed not a problem as bitcoin will also have a quantum resistant EDCSA (Elliptic Curve Digital Signature Algorithm) that will not allow the computers to reveal private keys from addresses.

Bitcoin increase above $12000 today, but the $12000 resistance is so strong, and the price is still around $11,960 at the time of posting this.

Bitcoin is bitcoin, and gold is gold. Gold will be safer than bitcoin because the gold price is not going up and down significantly, and the gold price tends to be stable. People know gold as a safe investment, and they don't know if bitcoin can be the same thing as gold, even most of them still don't know if bitcoin exists. Bitcoin is not safe until now because bitcoin prices are still moving up and down many times every day, and we can get a heart attack if we don't know what is happening in the market. We don't know when bitcoin can be a safe investment, and if you want to have a safe investment, it is better to buy gold.

Gold has always been a safe haven, Bitcoin is still volatile.

Butr investors are investors who also want profit so why would they dive their noses to stable like gold when they can get profit and investment the keeps going up like BTC.

If an investor buy gold for the reason of it being safe then he probably have not heard of BTC or some crypto projects before because if he would and have learned it deeply like most of us in crypto, he'd be buying BTC.

Bitcoin in general may not be considered as a safe haven mainly because of it's high volatile nature, but It would be a totally different story when the investors consider and use Bitcoin as a safe place to store and avoid the hyperinflation and possible devaluation of monetary assets in the bank. It is inevitable for some of the investors to doubt whether Bitcoin will be a safe haven in times like this or not.
While Gold on the other hand is always a safe haven long before any tools or medium of exchange we are using in the modern era.

Most probably people losing their faith from centralized organizations and they like to hold their valuable assets by themselves. For example, if you go to the bank to withdraw your deposited funds, and if the amount is quite big then the bank could ask you lots of questions. So I think people do not like such as questions regarding their own funds. As a result, they like to store gold who aren't familiar with crypto-currency. And those are familiar with crypto-currency and have faith in it they are storing bitcoin into their wallet instead of keeping their fund into the bank. So both assets demand is increasing even during the pandemic.

In my country, banks asking so many questions during withdrawal funds like why withdrawing, where to spend, and so on. Our country's population now like to hold their fund to their hand instead of deposit into bank due to fair of bankrupt. But if you are holding gold and bitcoin you can sell it anytime you want, no one will raise any questions. That's how gold and bitcoin showing positive movements during this global pandemic.

Gold is a proven safe-haven asset. Bitcoin has the potential to be a safe-haven, but this remains a possible future state.

Yes, the response of crypto prices to the pandemic has been encouraging, but we can't say that bitcoin volatility has suddenly disappeared for good. It remains comparatively low volume when compared to traditional markets, it is of course unregulated, and is still regarded with suspicion and mistrust by most governments. It has the potential to be a safe-haven and the ultimate store-of-value... but at the moment, it is seen much more as a highly speculative asset.

I do agree with you that the signs are encouraging, but I still think we are a long way from that end-state at the moment.

If gold can still be called safe because the decline is not so significant, it will remain more gradual in its increases in the next few years and of course investors will see how gold reacts with the increase in several weeks, maybe gold will be safer than bitcoin.
We know that in the past month bitcoin has become the world's spotlight because of its rise during the crisis, but bitcoin still shows itself to be a safe investment, that's only partially, but for me it's still not safe enough because it doesn't crash tomorrow or the day after it could be something happens in bitcoin.

Any investment is never safe, they are only measured based on risk, from low to high, and it also depends on the investors on what investment they will take as normally when the risk is low, the return is also low, while high investment gives higher return if successful in investing.

Big investors will look for a lower risk investment because they have bigger money to invest so they might be satisfied with the return, but most investors actually like big return so we are taking a high risk investment and bitcoin is suitable for us.


But that resistance would not last, bitcoin will again be victorious breaking it soon, sorry. Am I too optimistic?

Really? As far as economy concern its price still depends on the economic value too. While bitcoin surpass the tragic crisis of the pandemic. Comparing both, I can say gold is much stable when it comes to price value while bitcoin has a very volatile characteristic. What I both like about them is their presence serve as a safe heaven for some investors. Like what OP explained it was tested during the covid situation.

On the contrary, I think BTC and gold are on the rise because they are risk assets. For months now, the market has shown increasing risk appetite now that the Fed has made clear it will not tolerate a bear market. Now all the cash freed up from liquidating investments in February-April needs to go somewhere to make returns again. It's basically being piled into the market everywhere now. Very weird times.....

Gold is a safe haven and bitcoin is starting to gain the trust of the investors, but let's hope it will not dump again.

I'm afraid that while we continue to praise bitcoin on its performance this year so far, it might be manipulated again and just like before it will again result to a big dump and the market panic will start. The one year performance of bitcoin is more on like a rebound, not totally accelerating consistently, so it's hard to judge that it's a safe haven when it wasn't so consistent yet like what gold have showed.

https://i.imgur.com/jaepjBa.png

There's a difference between "safe-haven" assets/investments and assets/investments being considered "safe".  I in no shape form or fashion could call cryptocurrency of any kind "safe".  Gold has been around a lot longer but I still wouldn't call it "safe".  In terms of investments and the investing world, yes I would consider them "safe-haven" assets.  ..but remember, there's a big difference between the two.

 "A safe haven is an investment that is expected to retain or increase in value during times of market turbulence. Safe havens are sought by investors to limit their exposure to losses in the event of market downturns. However, what appears to be a safe investment in one down market could be a disastrous investment in another down market, and so the evaluation of safe haven investments varies, and investors must perform ample due diligence".- https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/safe-haven.asp

Some people here are investing in bitcoin to fight inflation, and people are trying hard to fight it.

Although fiat devaluation is the same with inflation, that's not the focus here, but the main focus is that people should prioritize investing in gold or bitcoin with or without economic crisis.


It depends on how people will deal with the benefits of bitcoin. Some are using it really as an asset, as a store of value, and as a source of profit. But to some people, they also use it as a payment tool for their transactions, not small transactions, but wider or huge transactions like immovable properties.

The luckiest thing about gold I can say is the fact that my mom and dad are old school kind of people and they had a bunch of gold saved up and they totally forget about it, they get one gram per month and just do not even touch it, they even have debt but instead of paying their debt they just keep collecting that gold thinking they will pay the debt eventually anyway when they do not go into further in debt and just go back to their regular life so they paid of all almost all their debt over time in years anyway.

But now they have so much money via gold, they weren't expecting this much increase, they were expecting to just save money and maybe profit a bit but I think they have doubled their money. You know what I find funny? In bitcoin world I could have doubled all my money, even close to triple it in the past 4 months...

bitcoin has always been a safe haven even before it reached $12k and long before that in its early days back in 2009. it is a safe haven asset because it is decentralized, unique and 100% secure. nobody can take it from you short of torturing you to get it out. gold and other assets can easily be confiscated or even stolen.

the only problem with bitcoin, which still exists, is that it is new and volatile. so it brings a certain level of risk with itself which is why it is not yet widely accepted by people around the world.

Bitcoin is good but I do not think it is ok to call it safe haven even though the price has been consistently increasing for weeks now but there is not a concrete reason for this and if we learn from the past, no matter how high it can go, the price can fall deeply within few minutes which makes me wonder if such can be called a safe haven for investment. I know little about bitcoin and I cannot say how sustainable it is to invest or call it a safe haven

Bitcoin is definitely not a safe asset. It's a speculative asset, and people who are buying it as a safe haven are taking on far more risk than they're capable of knowing, and that makes it dangerous for those people because the risk-reward of a real safe haven vs. what people are getting with Bitcoin is not comparable. Bitcoin's entire history is one of extreme volatility. Just because it hasn't dropped significantly during the pandemic doesn't render it safe. If that's your stance, you have to be far more worried about the significant drops of this "safe haven" when there was no pandemic. All the wishing and calling it a safe haven in the world won't change the fact that it isn't. Treat it as one at your own risk.

Nothing is safe if traded accordingly. Even the gold price can drop from the current price ( possibly will drop). The gold price always increases during the time of war, and currently, it's a war-like situation. It can drop after the pandemic end.
And volatility of BTC price is known to all, you can just buy and relax thinking it's safe you needed to be alert on the market situation.

You seem to forget gold has always been a safe haven asset and if you look at the charts it was already rising BEFORE the pandemic.
It started in December.
I suppose it's because there seems to have an upward tendency on the part of central banks to expand their gold reserves over the years, but it' s become more obvious only recently.( And the amount seems to be in line with their own GDP)
(I"m not to getting it currently but it's like if they're preparing for a monetary reset (and why not going back to the gold standart))

If it's true the pandemic is a test, it's the case for Bitcoin but not for gold. Remember 2008 and before. It might be appropriate to remember the fact Bitcoin dropped over 30% in the span of 2 months (between February and April). As a purported safe haven, that's not good.
By comparison, gold has made more than 20%...

I understand but people seem to be overexcited because the price hits $12k, they shouldn't. we've seen some pretty epic situations before.


You're mixing 2 things. The fact Bitcoin starts to be accepted as a payment mean and Bitcoin as a safe haven. Here the discussion is about BTC as a safe haven. If people start to use/accept it as a payment mean it doesn't make it a safe asset


This is simply due to the fact investors also allocate part of their funds to safer markets (diversity is a golden rule).

i"m not sure of that, but one thing i am clear about is that cryptocurrency are a very good alternative for the economy and they will always be. Has anyone ever thought of an undertaking or project? if you are one of those who think about starting a entrepreneurship, you are in the right place, why do i say this? Because you can create token (https://www.mintme.com/) on MintMe for free, this will allow you the opportunity to start you entrepreneurship and be able to monetize it through tokens.

Not sure how you can call a cryptocurrency that has more than 5% volatility safe....

Sure, it's probably safe from being banned by most governments, and we can be pretty sure it's never going to crash to absolute zero, but it's definitely not a safe haven investment in the slightest.

It's still high risk, high reward, and it's a long way from being anything different.

My question is: would those same analysts have predicted the same price for gold just a few months ago?  Do they think the world is going to be needing a safe haven asset like gold for years to come?  I'm extremely skeptical when it comes to people making predictions about precious metals, as I've read so many websites dedicated to hyping them--and all of the reasons they give for buying gold and silver remain the same regardless of anything going on in the world.

I've been watching the gold and silver market for years now as well.  I can't say I'm shocked that both have increased significantly recently, but I'm not sure gold (or silver) is going to double within a few years.

Bitcoin shouldn't be regarded as "safe" if you're speaking about the probability of losing money by investing in it.  It's never been a safe-haven asset and investors don't flock to it in times of uncertainty.  The only reason why both gold and bitcoin are rocketing upward at the same time is because of all the free money that's being handed out, combined with very low interest rates.  People are spending that money in the stock market, on bitcoin, and on precious metals.  I don't think anything is safe right now, and all of this cheap money is scaring the hell out of me.

Any investor worth their salt always knew that governments response to an economic crisis would be printing money. Youl'd have to be 12-16 years old to not witness the 2008 crisis and its effects personally.


You are conveniently forgetting how Bitcoin crashed by 50% during the initial global market panic caused by the pandemic. This is enough to disqualify Bitcoin as a safe heaven, even if it performs really well right now. If that event didn't occur, then Bitcoin could have had some claim to that status right now, so let's wait for the next test to see if Bitcoin will be uncorrelated to global markets during a major event or not.

The OP probably meant that Bitcoin is among the few assets that can be considered safe from confiscation by the government authorities. Since Bitcoin doesn't exist in the physical form, it is very difficult for the authorities to seize the holdings from anyone. I would say it is even difficult to establish that a particular address belongs to a certain individual. You can't get the same advantage with assets such as gold or real estate.

Bitcoin is considered as a safe asset because there is no way for the government to shutdown bitcoin due to it's decentralization, that is why government in other countries have attempt to ban and restrict bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Also, bitcoin and blockchain technology have save our assets from collapsing during the pandemic, and now the bitcoin market shows the most stability and growth. Unlike banks and stocks, they have been struggling because of the corona crisis.

I agree on this.

Bitcoin may increase in time but there are those times that it falls and the price changes quickly most of the times. We can say that it is safe in a period of time or in a certain time but there are those times that can give people or investors losses making it risky.

Yes, but not all investors want to do that because they concern with their money that can reduce anytime. If they invest in bitcoin, they will already research before buying bitcoin, so they know that the bitcoin price will always fluctuate. That kind of investor is always studying and searching for much information before they decide because they don't want to see they waste their money on something they don't know.

Perhaps, if the investor buys gold, they want to see their money is saved without reducing the value. So they will choose gold than other investment because gold will be the best choice for them.

Whoever declares bitcoin is safe for investment might be born in the space just recently.
I'm not a hater of bitcoin, but compared to gold, I think bitcoin is still young and there's much to prove to be considered as a safe investment.

Bitcoin is a good investment, but I don't think it's safe, the FUD, hype, FOMO, and other factors that could make the price move volatile is still here, it will not be stable for a long time as it take time for it to happen, and as long as there's manipulation happening anytime, it can't be safe fellas.

With Gold, I can say that it is a low to mid risk and low to mid rewards.
Gold has been already an investment and sometimes a hedging too for investors for a long time already and yeah I can agree that it can be a safe haven right now since it has been there for many many years.

Now with regards to Bitcoin.
It has been here for around 11 years only. Bitcoin is very volatile although many are expecting that it will continue to rise in the next years. I might agree with them but at the same time not 100% agreeing because there is still a chance that Bitcoin might go down again. We saw it when pandemic has been declared.
Although Bitcoin will not reach 0 anymore as expected, I can't say that Bitcoin can be considered as a safe haven for now because of its volatility.

In the moment when I'm writing this reply gold is trading for lower prices after the recent announcement released in Russia by Putin regarding to the vaccine. However, the BTC is still stable and maybe attending to reach the higher prices. That's how BTC win the but run marathon. All the BTC and gold bull run is came up after the economic crisis and shows how the inflection rate increasing over the time.

In some countries, policies that are friendly to cryptocurrency have started to emerge. Such as the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC) which allows US Federal banks to now offer crypto custodian services. Although government policies do not have a direct effect on prices. But the government-friendly policies on cryptocurrency create additional demand which ultimately affects the cryptocurrency price.
https://www.occ.gov/news-issuances/news-releases/2020/nr-occ-2020-98.html

But keep in mind that if the pandemic conditions continue and the stagnant economy does not move, the opportunities will be thinner, savings will run out faster and the time will come for us to start selling our assets.

Actually, I'm expecting the same thing because it's pretty obvious that the pandemic really squeeze every country's assets and slowly decay the economies of all countries but why it seems our currency is not affected at all, it becomes stronger instead. The exchange rate of usd to peso this day is $1 = P48.90 compared to P51.85 last February (before the virus spread arise). Hmm ???.
Nah, I will be convinced if and only if btc remain soaring or at least stabilize after this pandemic. What I'm thinking is that the pandemic served as a huge opportunity to give the rest of investors ample time to trade which resulted in high volume and higher price (IMO only). For me, you're money will never be safe with crypto because its trend today looks nice but tomorrow might be a disaster. No one knows, so extreme caution while investing is still advised :).

After that good run previously,  there's always effects inside the market each time news comes out even it's not a direct threat but traders always take things into considerations.


On this current run, BTC is moving forward and if your basis is the real time movements then I'll bite on your side.


Both sides received good appreciations while economic crisis hits the global market, investors are diverting their money to much safer side according to their understanding.

I think still the gold is one of the safest havens because we all know that the market price is volatile from just the previous month we all know that the bitcoin rise into the month of January 2020 and falls back into the month of March 2020 this is quite speed right? Because it's volatile we all know that.

Still for me one of the best safe havens is the gold, it takes time on bitcoin to becomes one of the safes havens.

Gold is without any doubt one of most safe investment but now many peoples feel bitcoin is also in some better position because now its spreading and many countries bringing good and soft policies for this just because of this now its price is also doing good even many have problems with bitcoin price volatile but still for me and many others its safe and good invest for long and short both ways.

That's the thing about Bitcoin which makes it different from other investments in particular with stock market. Investing and holding for a long time to both Bitcoin and gold will yield to different outcomes. As for this year, the market price is indeed increasing at a high rate but given that the price is unpredictable it won't be a "safe" investment which would generate assured profit. There is quite a consistent market price increase with regards to Gold's market value, making it quite risky. But indeed, no investment will give assurance.

Gold is already proven as a safe investment ever since knowing its price has always followed an upward trend. But with bitcoin, i cannot totally conclude that it's already a safe investment because of its price volatility. We can make higher profits from bitcoin compared to gold but it also demands bigger risk.

After the battle is over the battlefield is full of heroes who wanted to be in the first line but somehow ended in the rear :D

How about we scroll back a few pages in the speculation board during the middle of March drop to below 5$ and read a bit how much of a safe asset was bitcoin considered at that time. A safe asset is one that doesn't drop during a crisis, not one that recovers when the worst is almost over, BTC has done nothing special compared to traditional stocks, what is worse that although it was on an ascending trend before the pandemic it took a harder hit than other investments right in the middle. Also, let's not forget how people tend to cheer events and then forget about them, everyone was hyped on how coinbase came out with the news of people buying coins of the same value of stimulus checks, and although praising money printing as possible surge for the bull run now they are minimizing it, claiming BTC growth is not because of that.

As much as I dislike gold, it did perform better when it was needed, the max drop it took this year is of only 15%. On the long run yeah, BTC gains in terms of $ value will clearly be superior by far, I can't see gold doubling or tripling its value in a small time frame as can BTC but I also see it far less vulnerable to out of the blue dumps.


Well, analyst also though that Why Many Analysts See Gold Going As High As $10,000 (https://www.mining.com/why-many-analysts-see-gold-going-as-high-as-10000/), the term analyst has become a joke, they could call themselves clairvoyants as their results are quite on par with those.

The gold and cryptocurrency (btc) market are doing okay during this pandemic, but they are not the only assets that are doing okay, in fact lots of assets and stocks has been going up even at this time of Coronavirus.

Have you checked for Tesla stock? The price is even far more higher than it has been years, despite that there is a pandemic, if you check with your stocks or Google, you will see that Tesla is still on green. It’s not just Tesla, there are lots of other markets that has been on green, and some of them I am investing in.

I do see people saying that the pandemic has weakened the US dollars as a reserve currency and that another country’s currency is going to replace it. When I see people say these things, it’s quite funny. Yes the Fed has printing lots of money and I know that’s why a lot of people saying that it has weakened, but they are forgetting that demand for the USD is more than any other currency and that demand for it is outplacing what is being done by the Feds.

A lot of people are running to USD because it’s more safe than majority of the other currencies you’re going to be holding right now. Bitcoin is also doing okay, and it’s been my number one asset to invest no matter when. It wasn’t a surprise to me that the price still went up after everything, because Bitcoin has survived a lot of storm and I knew it’s going to do the same this time around.

Gold is almost had a value for long term, it's no doubt. But to get more profit from your investment, bitcoin will be the correct option. Even the price of bitcoin is more volatile completely compared to gold, it had good benefit of buying high value bitcoin at less price. When the market is dump. But you can't find this option in Gold. Now many country accepted bitcoin as online payment will added Advantage.

Investors usually invest for profit. But it will depend on the market. Bitcoin is biologically created without grassroots and centralized groups. It uses work evidence to validate the transaction which helps in determining the appropriate cost Since the tradition of gold prices is traditionally mined and transportation costs to support the price. While both can be said to be safe investing in gold is more secure because Bitcoin has not yet been legalized in many countries and no one can say how long it will last but the gold market is stable everywhere.

In all the hard times of trials, gold has always been a refuge for preserving value and saving people's money accumulation. Therefore, we see a natural significant increase in its price recently against the background of deteriorating economic indicators around the world.
Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies are being tested for the first time as a financial instrument that can successfully withstand inflation of common currencies of states. It is still too early for us to draw definite conclusions on this issue, since this event coincided with other positive events for the growth of the cryptocurrency market. After a certain time, it will be possible to draw more specific conclusions on this matter.