Bitcoin Forum

What happened:
- Someone or something (support reps blamed the system) at kucoin froze my account demanding ID documents to withdraw without any prior notice after I discovered this when I attempted to sell my XMR for BTC on Aug. 28th 2020 and contacted them for support via livechat

- First support rep named "winnie" via live chat lied to me and claimed it was a technical issue, it was discovered during second live chat that it was not a technical issue but in fact "mandatory kyc for me" all of a sudden after being a customer since Aug. 3rd, 2020

- Withdrawal restriction was not known until I attempted to withdraw and 4 hours passed (now 18hours) with withdraws never showing up, this restriction is not stated anywhere in any policy, in fact their very own moderator clearly states kyc is not mandatory in the first sentence of the first reply to someone else experiencing this issue with them -> "https://old.reddit.com/r/kucoin/comments/hk3ecg/kucoin_is_not_letting_my_friend_withdraw_and_is/fwqfm5f/" screenshot -> https://imgur.com/WrO4khK

- Spoke to support rep "winnie" a second time, who eventually admitted my account was frozen and while talking with "winnie" an email arrived demanding ID documents, the same support rep who initially lied and claimed that I was experiencing a technical issue.  Then also admitted multiple times, 3 to be exact that kyc is not required to withdraw
screenshots:
https://imgur.com/mQd6QV7
https://imgur.com/TFi9Pso
https://imgur.com/GqQPppw

- Third livechat and second support rep named "snow" who also sent the email shown in the reddit link ("https://old.reddit.com/r/kucoin/comments/hk3ecg/kucoin_is_not_letting_my_friend_withdraw_and_is/") also repeated the non-existent policy of demanding my ID documents to allow my withdrawal, did not respond to any direct questions about this non-existent wording or non-existent policy, also wasting more time pretending to not know anything, another tactic witnessed at scam exchanges
screenshots:
https://imgur.com/B4Zdxmj
https://imgur.com/JweJUzO

- Third support rep named "flower" like the others admitted "kyc is not mandatory" then back tracks and claims that it is for me and I must do so or they will not "help" me with the problem they caused, in these screenshots they have increased my limits but I have no actual ability to do anything, I guess this is something they forced after emails to try and make it match against their invalid policy demands for ID documents, regardless there is no policy they have written for public viewing that states kyc is required to withdraw.
screenshots:
https://imgur.com/yuP17Sy
https://imgur.com/MLs3CvJ
https://imgur.com/2OcWH0
https://imgur.com/mfKaciY
https://imgur.com/px3408f
https://imgur.com/oOgC0Am

- in the links they sent me there is no such thing that says kyc is required to withdraw, those links are:
   "https://support.kucoin.plus/hc/en-us/articles/360025469474-How-to-Finish-the-KYC-Verification-Process-" and the text within towards the bottom "Please rest assured that functionality such as deposits, withdrawal, and trading will remain accessible in accordance with non-KYC verified account rules." screenshot:  https://imgur.com/Kk1QbEg

   "https://support.kucoin.plus/hc/en-us/articles/360015102254-About-KYC-Verification" and the relevant text directly underneath a chart that shows the transaction abilities of non-kyc accounts, kyc1 and kyc2 accounts clearly within states "We do strongly suggest our clients complete the KYC verification." screenshot: https://imgur.com/p51Y2B8

   "ECDD.pdf - https://support.kucoin.plus/attachments/token/60oANFuSbNP065TL3En5kN0l2/?name=ECDD.pdf" which in turn takes you to "https://www.kucoin.com/account/kyc" after signing in.  So not an actual legitimate document that actually contains any kyc questionnaire, just force redirecting back to their kyc forms.

    "https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-kyc-user-identity-authentication-statement" This link clearly states that identity collection is to be done before a business relationship is created, see for yourself: "it is mandatory for KuCoin to establish and maintain the records of the identity proof and fund source of all our clients before creating a business relationship."  Doing so after the fact nullifies this policy immediately in any contract law.  Considering that not only is there evidence I have deposited but, withdrawn as the current evidence shows I am attempting to currently do that cannot be done without first depositing. screenshot: https://imgur.com/ocq64z9

- there is no policy that explicitly states in any clear terms or statements that kyc is required for withdrawals, in fact quite the opposite and when I requested any of the support reps for this policy they did not provide any link only continued the demand for ID documents

- they ignored the link I discovered on reddit where their own moderator states "kyc is not mandatory on kucoin" (see above)

- they ignored the wording of their own links sent to me in email about their own policies in which I highlight and point out there is no requirement of their own in their own wording on their own policy for what they are demanding

- In the emails to me all they do is repeat this same or similar line while claiming the links they sent state this being necessary

- I have recorded all the live conversations with support, when I ask them direct questions about the situation they do not answer or they give me the same answer about a non-existent policy demanding ID documents to withdraw in which there exists no such policies available publicly even by the very links they have sent in which they did not seem to read themselves

Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2592830

Reference Link:
http://kucoin.com

Amount Scammed:
121.51173607 XMR and 0.01572919 BTC  screenshot ->  https://imgur.com/Ier51u0

Payment Method:
Direct deposit to kucoin's XMR and BTC wallet please see proof of payment below.

Proof of Payments:
https://imgur.com/a9Nxv7D

PM/Chat Logs:
Screenshots of the 3 different reps admitting kyc not mandatory then contradicting themselves within the same conversation (please see above for screen shots of the chats).

Additional Notes:
- I had only 9 deposits and 4 actual withdrawals, one failed due to hitting the submit button twice on accident because the website was not responding, and the two "In progress" are being held up by this non-existent unpublished anywhere kyc policy on withdrawals, my withdrawal history is very boring see for yourself. screenshot: https://imgur.com/N19JHwN

- They appear to be using similar if not identical tactics like hitbtc, changelly and others, allowing you to use the service then immediately freezing and demanding info you never agreed to divulge based upon the advertising and policies of it stating that is not mandatory in the first place then stealing your funds

- If this is something new as it appears to me to be, it will not be long before others encounter the same issue and most likely I am the first because kucoin has not really appeared to be scammy even by my own research and the little things that do arise such as the reddit link above from a month ago appear to get resolved but, this may be one of those scams where they build things up and disappear like others have.

- I have never exceeded my withdrawal limit, I have only ever reached the half amount of 2 BTC my withdrawals show this without issue

- also I have been logging in from the exact same IP address the whole time, since day one

full screenshot album https://imgur.com/a/luCy1q4

UPDATE: Within about 20-30 mins of posting my conversations with them they have now blocked me from livechat and are no longer responding to my emails with the same links from above that do not support any of the statements they are making.

2ND UPDATE: Aug. 31 2020 I have received an email in which kucoin is making some claims that will be known to be true or not within the next day or so.  I will post the contents of that email here if it is true because I have learnt that there are many others going through this right now and they all appear to be users of XMR in one form or another.

3rd update: Sept. 5, 2020 (funds still not released despite this email from them) The email I mentioned above which was communicated to me by "winnie" (this is the 4th communication from this person the same 1st one I spoke to claiming it was a technical issue then changed the reason to this kyc thing) stated this:


So I responded and I think this is the 8th or 10th time I told them same thing:

Their response:

I am under the impression that I would have received or had my funds released by now according to these communication because the 5 working days has passed and it may seem they have not made an internal decision to terminate the business relation because I can still login.  I have blatantly refused the kyc obviously here and I specifically stated so in multiple emails.  I am unsure of the wording because it seems to say to me that I should see the funds by 5 working days and in 15 days they may make a decision, again really unsure so I would like thoughts on this please.  Considering the last response and it's implied actions I do not think they are being honest yet and my funds are absolutely NOT "safe".  Thoughts?

4th update Sept 6, 2020
Like many if not identical now, other threads that have kyc scams of other exchanges kucoin now appears to be passing this to another "department" that like many other kyc scams they have to wait on for an "update":


FINAL UPDATE: Sept. 13 2020  They have allowed me to withdraw my funds however have frozen my account. Here is the email about this last action:



Please exercise extreme caution as they are still holding the funds of another user -> kaefergeneral <- even though this user DID submit kyc documents as detailed in this thread!!

I will not support this allegation for now because it's not the only exchange that asks for KYC there are other exchanges that ask KYC on day one after you register even if you did not deposit, I have a hard time reading your posts you are punishing us for making it looks bloody to us,

I will wait for other Kucoin users to back this allegations

If possible please share some documentation as I did.  What has been the most disturbing to me is that they are literally following the same exact path hitbtc, polo, and another that I cannot think of at the moment.  This tactic is basically used to steal funds with the excuse of kyc, not an unfamiliar tactic.  This particular exchange seems to simply have drawn out the con, I believe they call this the "long con".  Either way if possible some evidence to share so non-believers do not get confident in this exchange.  One other thing to note is that all these exchanges who did this had one thing in common, they did this to all traders who had low volume specifically under 10k, I noticed this time and again when going through the complaints of the other exchanges doing this.  Every now and then you will come across a big one they scammed but, not often just a bunch of smaller traders.

As of this writing and now over 24 hours later they still have not budged on allowing my withdraws to go through, so now they have actually stolen my funds and the addresses that I had the deposits going to I can clearly show have never received a thing.  I am currently cleaning the chat videos of any privacy violating information and will release them here as well.  You will see that not only do they respond very little but, the support actually appears extremely incompetent another "hitbtc" move in the kyc scam playbook.  In addition the chats 4 of them in total always take at least 30 mins+ you will also see this in the chat in realtime as it happened, something I do not think many traders are aware of how horrible there support is when actually needed.

Stay safe more info to follow with the original screen video recordings.

When I read the reddit complaint about them doing this I to was skeptical, until out of nowhere they did it to me.

I can remove the red, I thought it would simply help highlight the points.

I have removed it and left it only for specific highlighting please let me know if it is better viewing now.  This is my 2nd time in 8 years that I have to make any kind of complaint about any exchange so I am a little rusty.  However after that first incident I started recording everything, even if they seemed legit because you just never know.  I am not against kyc/aml as long as I know what is expected of me, however I do not agree with these tactics of holding someone's account ransom and demanding more ransom such as ID.  If they had a different approach I probably would have complied but, this approach makes me think they are going to steal my ID for nefarious purposes as a financial terrorist or highly motivated thief would.

I also do not think they will do the right thing as banning me from livechat gives me the impression of.  As I am expecting them to steal my funds, I believe the best repercussions would be to inform everyone about them and withdraw as soon as they can, as currently the fake reviews, fake articles (I think they are fake now) do not match up to the way support spoke with me as everyone will soon see from the video recordings.  Sadly the support situation is not one that is easily discovered until a problem arises.  I also suspect that they make efforts to remove bad reviews/complaints however trustpilot has shown me negative reviews of many who experienced this, like others I did not believe it until now.  There are even reviews of people saying they will play with your psyche which I also did not believe but, when you see the chat video it shows they try to play games, again highly unprofessional.

In any event these types of scammers have to be exposed and rooted out they are destructive to the crypto space and newbies get scared away quickly by this type of thing.

Was your XMR source bad or tainted? I think they found your XMR source as bad and that's why they have frozen the account. Anyway, they have the right to ask for KYC once they found anything suspicious on your account. O think they have stated this in their terms and condition.

You cannot trace XMR to a bad or tainted source it does not work like that, regardless I am actually mining XMR.  I thought maybe my first bitcoin deposit was "bad" but, as you can see in the deposit history they did not react to that and I was able to conduct transactions well after.  I am also uncertain about how they came to ascertain my account as being "frozen" worthy or suspicious because the last deposit I did also listed in the deposits history screenshot was on Aug. 21 for 115 XMR and during that time I did a small trade which is how I obtained the small BTC amount that is currently "In Progress" for withdrawal.  So when you look at my account it is quite easy to tell that I am an XMR guy especially by the deposits.  If they are making some decisions based upon the withdraws to BTC I have no control over that because that is BTC I have used for various bill payments and things, and if I am all of a sudden being held responsible for what someone does after then it is likely they will attack other accounts like they did mine.  I am beginning to think this is what is going on, they have not told me anything as to why exactly except "the potential risks" as will be seen in the chat videos I am preparing to upload to youtube.

Thank you for your thoughts I like the insights.

Hello!
We are very sorry that you have encountered the problem you are describing:( However, we would like to note that our company never intentionally freezes users' funds. To find out more, you can read our terms of use here –> https://changelly.com/terms-of-use

The only thing is that your terms are not explicitly clear as to what happens when a user might refuse ID documents.  You are clear that the transaction will be put on hold, refusal to deliver ID docs not so much.  This is what has caused complaints from what I have read and not something I want to experience.  I get that you operators feel this necessary but, it really is not in line with any principles of cryptocurrency from many inceptions of white papers available for public reading.

How did Changelly get involved in this thread--did I miss something?  I'll admit that I haven't yet read every single post in its entirety, but this is about Kucoin.

I started a thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5227309) back in February of this year when I got hit with a KYC requirement just to log on.  It turned out to be some sort of error (apparently), but I had a gut feeling that Kucoin was gearing up toward requiring KYC from their customers, even those who trade in small amounts and don't use fiat.

I'll be following this thread closely, as they're the only exchange I still use.

Funny you wrote exactly what I was thinking about changelly chiming in.  Maybe promoting their service?

I am hoping this kyc thing is an error, except having others telling me that they primarily use XMR and it has happened this past month does not give me a good gut feeling about them.  The worst for me is that I was referred to them by someone who has been using them a year, I do not know the trading habits of this person but, I was told there were no issues like this.

It honestly made my head spin when this started because I have as you can see extremely small volume so this boggles my mind.

One thing further is that they had the opportunity to send me this latest email, after about 10 back/forth way before it escalated to this, so I think this thread and it getting exposure has prompted something, what that will be I am not sure until I see.

So you think this has to do with trading XMR in particular?  That doesn't make any sense to me at all--either an exchange needs KYC documents from their customers or they don't.

I'm not an active trader, but I've been buying some select altcoins on Kucoin for well over a year now, and aside from that problem I linked to in my previous post, I've never had any issues with them about withdrawal, KYC, or anything else.  They're one of only a few exchanges that have a decent reputation as far as I know, so I'm hoping for your sake that this really is just a mistake.

You don't think it has anything to do with an issue like this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5272597), do you?  I don't know what country you live in, but it looks like Australia is giving privacy coins a bad rap and a hard time.  I also don't know where Kucoin operates out of, but I don't think it's Australia.

Edit:

Really?  I don't recall having read anything about that before.  If you've got a link, I'd sure like to see it--I'm pretty confident Kucoin is not a scam exchange and isn't headed toward being one.  On the other hand, I thought the same thing about Cryptsy when they were in business, so you just never know with crypto exchanges.

I hate to think it an XMR type of problem but, I am not in Australia or USofA so I do not have issues thankfully like them.  Kucoin is out of Hong Kong or Singapore and someone found out they have an empty office when they checked up on it.

I hope it is a mistake to because right at the beginning of this event they said technical issue but, shortly after reverted to saying it is kyc.  Maybe they are trying to cover a technical issue up?  Or some kind of hack?  I really hope just a mistake to.

Maybe there support is not well coordinated. I notice that you are talking to different support which might result to a miscommunication. It happens to me on kucoin too and I’m a bit disappointed on the support. I keep repeating typing my case everytime I need an update.They are way behind to Binance support which  never leave chat until it solves. I was force to do KYC on kucoin just reclaim my account. I believe you might force KYC too. So far after that, No issue at all in kucoin at this point.

they could be doing it for security, money laundering is a major risk and I believe every other exchanges have been fighting against money laundering, including kucoin, nothing to worry about if you're not doing anything illegal - kyc got some benefits as well, you can use that for your advantage

Based on the given proofs you have, it seems like your account is "too active" with thousands upon thousands of deposits and withdrawal which does not correlate to the age of your account (Aug 3, 2020) and having no KYC. In my point of view, this might be a counter measure of the exchange for money laundering since its rampant on the crypto industry.

Did they make an announcement ahead of KYC's official launch or an immediate proceeding?

This is not a scam accussation. Kucoin's policy (https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-terms-of-use?lang=en_US) is pretty clear about KYC, which you have agreed to when registering an account:


This doesn't mean that KYC is mandatory but they can require you to verify your identity in certain cases, so technically their support wasn't wrong when saying that KYC isn't mandatory. Trying to sell over $11,000 worth of a privacy coin is a valid reason for them to require identity verification. Kucoin has no choice but to follow these AML/CFT policies in order to remain compliant.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4869493.0  Empty office and pics

Within that same thread they also reply not convincingly though.

I would agree except that the very same support people I spoke with on chat are exactly the same people emailing me.  In fact "winnie" whom I spoke with 1st and 2nd is also the last person to email me which I referenced in my 2nd update in the original post.  I do not think they should have forced you at all and considering that you are stating what I am experiencing that does not bode well for the rest of the community under the same impression as I about kyc being optional with them in particular.  Nor does it set well when reading their policies that continuously claim that it is optional or in their own words "not mandatory".  Or if you look at the reddit link or the chat logs their own people say this repeatedly.

I do not have an actual need for large numbers or transactions, as you can see in one month for example I only had 9 deposits and 4 withdrawals, those "extra" benefits are of no use to someone at my scale.

You obviously did not even look or read anything that was presented.  9 deposits and 4 withdrawals is not mathematically equivalent or scaled to "thousands".  Where did you get "thousands of deposits and withdrawals" from?

None I am aware of and far as can be told neither are others aware of.

It is very much a scam accusation because there are many holes not only in the multiple policies I posted links to from kucoin but, in addition their representatives not being consistent, posting this one policy simply adds to the ambiguity and inconsistency I will point out why.

The factual issues:

1) Terms were changed on 8/13/20 as per the link itself I joined before this date as can be attested by the evidence, Aug. 3rd 2020.  Interestingly enough any other organization I have been a member of immediately sends out changes to their membership base if they signed up before the changes, this did not happen, no one here has mentioned the simple fact that I joined on Aug. 3rd 2020, the terms changed and as a matter of fact it appears no one has been notified.  If you have a bank account as to which this is easily compared simply recall how many times they have sent you those annoying updated T&C, this is why.

2) They have specific terminology on the kyc process and the outcomes, specifically there are 3 reference points as links I have presented in the original post that they sent me themselves in the first response to my email support request, in contract law this is what is called ambiguity in which you follow the most referenced points in case of contradictions such as these.  Again in these specific references just like the link you sent with the excerpt in which I extracted the definition of "Services" and included the excerpt from the same link, there is not even the word or mention of withdraw.

3) They define the "Services" which clearly does not include withdrawals or deposits but, here it is right from the link you sent:

4) So going by their own rules on restrictions of "Services" as you outlined above and incorporating their definition of "Services" there is no exclusion or explicit outline of withdrawal restriction, it is very clear that trading of any kind or type will be restricted which is what they did and I discovered being restricted upon attempting to trade, this is the only thing consistent about this whole event and actually in line with their own policies.  Restricting withdrawals is not explicitly, nor clearly outlined or restricted in any policy that is written and available for review.  

If you have a chance to review contract law please do because you will learn that ambiguity is a common issue that causes problems with many companies, this is why for example a civil lawsuit can be successful.

In this example kucoin has either intentionally or unintentionally made it confusing thus leaving you the customer to learn about contract law or simply hire a lawyer to review the contract.  In either presentation of these anyone would be easily successful in proving lack of consistency in their actions.  It cannot be expected of the customer to know the intentions without clear, concise and explicit terms, this is not that.  Conclusively this leaves one to generate their own thoughts on these actions.

Your 'factual issues' are non-existent. There were no policy changes regarding KYC since you joined. Here is a copy of their policy from 11/2019, which has exactly the same text regarding KYC: https://web.archive.org/web/20191115081956if_/https://www.kucoin.com/news/en-terms-of-use

You're trying to give your own interpretation to their policy while it's perfectly clear. There is nothing confusing about it and you have agreed to their terms when you created your account. The staff technically wasn't wrong about KYC being non-mandatory. As they said in your first conversation, something triggered their risk assessment system, resulting in them requiring KYC information. The other staff members didn't know this as first, but once they checked why your withdraw was halted they informed you about the reason and what information was required.

A civil lawsuit will be an absolute waste of your time and money and it will very likely be striked out before even making it to court.

It is noticeable you are invalidating the necessity of specifics in contract law, and your interpretation of the policy is implying withdrawals will be suspended.  This is a mistake you cannot assume anything in contract law, doing so is detrimental as it is required that specifics are outlined otherwise as you are doing any interpretation outside of what was written can be applied simply by one's emotions.

If you wrote this policy correct it, if not do not take personally what others have done it is self-defeating.

Thank you for your insights, you have made me more diligent in my thoughts on this and the motivations for making ambiguous contracts in addition to why I will avoid them in the future.

I do get that in withdrawing funds on KuCoin, it doesnt really need KYC verification but the thing is, as you reached for the support yourself you may as well get the things done since they know what they are doing exactly. If its KYC documents they needed then provide it or else it may look that it is involve in some fraudulent activities. If they detected that then that is the valid and only reason why they want you to submit KYC. Especially if it involves a huge amount of money having problems. Even in banks and other institutions, they are looking for verifications just like this one.

Depositing and withdrawing funds, without making trades, is a huge AML red flag. Exchanges are basically huge mixers. If you deposit funds into an exchange and withdraw those funds there is no way to trace where the funds are going.

What makes you think that you're not required to provide KYC because you're from Europe? Have you not heard of AMLD5? Here is the entire policy available in every European language: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/dir/2018/843/oj

Exchanges (and other financial institutions) are forced to save personal data for 5-7 years. After that you can file a GDPR request and have it removed.

This behavior of the exchanges is identical to precrime punishments as depicted in many Orwellian nightmare scenarios.  Cryptocurrency in general regardless of the coin was intended to give control of personal finances back to the person, not another method of control by the controllers, they did not even create this instrument.  The irony here and the reality is that the methods these exchanges are using is absurd because accusations fly out hijacking the account and demanding you give you personal info to those who are wanting to steal at the same time from you.  The thoughts that really stick out to me is this:

What do these exchanges do with the funds they effectively steal from unsuspecting customers unaware of these scams?  If they are doing it for law enforcement/regulation purposes why do they not show that these funds have been transferred to the relevant authorities for investigation and subsequently released if no wrong doing is found?  When did any country, judge, judicial system or population put forth a vote or decree granting them government agent powers for this?  There is no trial, no judge, no jury, nothing they just take your funds.  If I did that to anyone and then claimed they must prove to me where the source of funds, etc. etc.. as a non-government agent I would expect to be charged with theft.

These exchanges doing this are not government agents of any type with no authority to do this, and claiming authority under suspicion of activities is exactly what Orwell strongly warns us about.  For an easy explanation of this "It is increasingly used in academic literature to describe and criticise the tendency in criminal justice systems to focus on crimes not yet committed. Pre-crime intervenes to punish, disrupt, incapacitate or restrict those deemed to embody future crime threats. The term pre-crime embodies a temporal paradox, suggesting both that a crime has not occurred and that the crime that has not occurred is a foregone conclusion."  source "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-crime"

If you believe this behavior is defensible then you should not be shocked when it happens to you because it can for any reason based on this premise and the actions being taken with this premise in mind.

That's not right at all... You should be allowed to withdraw your funds to the address you sent them from, at the very minimum. What I recommend is to post a comment describing your situation in their main thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163269.0) and see if the KuCoin Exchange account replies to you. They may be able to help you out quite a bit as they were just online today. If that doesn't work, reply back here and I will help you to open a formal scam accusation against them, which might stimulate them into action.


Not a valid excuse to hold somebody's funds without any sort of way to get them back. Exchanges are only decent mixers if they are completely anonymous, like a DEX, and even then there's ways to see who got what, where its been, and where its going. Exchanges that ask for KYC are the exact opposite of mixers.

And of course there's a way to trace where the funds are going, its called blockchain analytics.

I cannot agree that they know what they are doing exactly, the behavior is extremely amateurish due to the nature of execution.  The policies being inconsistent is another highly amateur move as it shows lack of intellectual due diligence.

In banks and other institutions you are required to give ID documents before a pence drops in to any account, as I pointed out in their own policies they stated this as well however they contradict this by allowing deposits and in addition allowing the trading that occurred, therefore violating their own written policies.  Would this not qualify as suspicious so they now need to give me their ID documents?  So this is obviously not a professional move because it is either one way or the other, not in the middle unless you are running a scam.  Besides there is not a "huge amount of money" the fact still remains that it was only 9 deposits and 4 withdrawals.  Even looking at that amount you can immediately tell that I was focused on trading not withdrawing.  Considering you and others keep saying "large amounts" I do not know if you are ignoring the screenshots, work for them and are trying to justify their behavior or are incapable of viewing the screenshots and understanding what you see.

Compliance of this nature for convenience reminds me succinctly of this quote
Considering the core principles of all cryptocurrencies I would be doing myself a disservice as well as the community, I am not about to go against core principles of these financial instruments creator(s) that is disrespectful, disingenuous and patently wrong.

I did what was suggested by "nutlidah" as shown here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163269.msg55090441#msg55090441 you can see they ignored it completely and continued on with another advertisement, no PM either, not that I am surprised because they blocked me from livechat I believe due to their inability to communicate properly.

I believe that the 11th email I recently got in which they claimed certain things would happen is a direct result of posting here because 10 emails prior they only repeated the claims of the inconsistent policies, again if possible attempt to produce some documentation because in the long run exposing these types of behaviors is essential to the community.

Considering that we are probably the first to encounter this it is possible there are others because all the policies regarding this behavior have been modified in Aug. 2020 and now there are people having issues, I do not think this a coincidence.

You could be right about their inability to communicate properly, but you kind of started off on the wrong foot with them. You were immediately accusatory and didn't ask for help, only pointed to this accusation.

I know it feels like they have you bent over a barrel but your only option currently is to submit the KYC documents. If I ran an exchange, I wouldn't hold funds over surprise KYC issues, I would let the user withdraw them back to their original address (I know with XMR that's a bit more difficult to prove). But, I'm not an exchange, so you kind of have to do what they say.

If you get to the stage of kaefergeneral where they took your KYC and your coins, then let me know here and I will help you to open a flag against them. That will put up a warning message that is visible to everyone who can see their thread. If company/project cares enough about their reputation on the forum, they will find your accusations worth responding to, potentially helping you to resolve the issue.

As of right now, however, there is more evidence in kaefergeneral's case to warrant a flag or a red tag as they actually underwent the KYC and still haven't received their coins. I will tag the KuCoin Exchange account and point them to this thread to see if they will respond. Gonna give them a couple days to respond to my comment in their thread before tagging them.

It is a valid excuse to hold the funds (according to AML/CFT policies). Chain analysis can't link deposits and withdrawals on exchanges without contacting the exchanges and having them provide the information. This is why similar actions (depositing and withdrawing without making trades) are flagged and will result in having to provide KYC information, as it is a money laundering indication. Exchanges have no other option than to follow the AML/CFT regimes.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving my personal opinion here but this is how these policies work. Regulations will only get worse from here. I wouldn't be surprised if they already reported OP's transaction(s) to local authorities (if they know what country he's from).

Perhaps they are contacting your local authorities to report their 'suspicions' and holding your funds until they hear back from them. If the authorities are satisfied with the information you provided KuCoin can release your funds:


Their privacy policy is also very clear on why they can/will collect personal data:


Not sure where I read it but I think that, according to AMLD5, exchanges are no longer allowed to inform users in case of an investigation/inquiry.

A "money laundering indication" is not the same thing as money laundering. You do understand that right? What would they report him for what exactly?

Agreed, and thank you for your involvement in both our situations as I thought what would happen if I complied is exactly what kaefergeneral is encountering which is frightening on different levels. Compounded with you really do not know who it is on the receiving end of your documentations when you complied and nothing happens plus the extra absurdities.

This is exactly what I was worried would happen to me, literally to the letter.  The interesting thing is that they also did this to me on a Friday, as Aug. 28th 2020 is that same day.  Which is why I became accusatory because I to knew the likelihood of a government authority involved in this was almost nil.  Our situations are very similar except I could not as you stated the reason above do it because it goes against everything I believe in as well.  Plus I have witnessed colleagues have bad things happen with their identities when this exact pattern emerged.  I cannot tell you how nervous this makes me but, I literally felt my heart going 1000 miles an hour as this brought back all the horror stories.

Can we post this thread to the kucoin thread so they can address this matter accordingly? They are still active here in the forum so maybe we can have direct from them.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163269

It got posted and the reply is less than reassuring.  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5163269.msg55114854#msg55114854

Extremely disappointing they are being like this.

Because that is how AML policies work. You're guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around. Exchanges/financial institutions are obliged to report suspicious transactions. Local authorities will determine if they want to do a follow-up investigation or not. 

Why would a deposit to an exchange constitute a "suspicious transaction"?

As I tried to explain earlier making a deposit, followed by a withdraw, can be seen as a mixing attempt, which is a money laundering indication. That doesn't mean that OP is involved in illegal activities, trying to launder money etc. but it COULD be the case. The fact that it COULD be the case is enough reason, according to AML/CFT policies, for exchanges/financial services to ask for KYC/additional information or even report the transaction to local authorities. I'm not trying to justify or defend these policies, I'm merely trying to explain how they work. The exchanges are simply obliged to follow these policies, otherwise they're not allowed to operate.

So admittedly you don't know for sure that KuCoin would report a deposit/withdrawal as "suspicious" to the authorities and that assertion is 100% based on your own speculation.

Sorry but I get the feeling you simply don't know what you're talking about and frankly I don't understand why you commented here in the first place.

KuCoin doesn't require KYC unless a user wants to withdraw 5 or more BTC worth of coins per day or they feel "suspicious activity" has taken place on the part of the user. What "suspicious activity" constitutes is totally up to them.


Says nothing about what you are talking about -- at this still early stage in the game, how an exchange interprets an individual country's AML policies is purely up to the exchange. There is no standard in this regard.

If an exchange is too heavy handed with springing KYC upon people and with-holding their coins unjustly then its our duty to warn other potential users not to use said exchange. In kaefergeneral's case, there is absolutely no reason for them to with-hold his funds and just because their terms & conditions says they can doesn't mean they won't soon have a negative reputation among the crypto community.

The reason why its interesting to me is because I've been a KuCoin user for years and never had a KYC request. But now I have to consider the prospect of steering people away from them.

Why is it interesting to you?

I never stated that KuCoin was/is contacting local authorities, I said that I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

It's not just about AML policies from individual countries, these policies are globally used. KuCoin is based in Singapore, who happen to be a member of FATF (Financial Action Task Force) (https://www.fatf-gafi.org/). This is taken from FATF's latest recommendation:


Exchanges will not take the risk of under-interpreting money laundering signals because that could result in the loss of their licenses.

I am replying to this thread to help OP understand why they KuCoin could be doing this. For the third and final time, I'm not saying I agree with FATF or other AML/CFT policies like AMLD5 nor am I trying to justify them. Saying that I do not know what I'm talking about seems a bit out of place for obvious reasons. There is plenty of documentation available online about FATF, US, EU and Asian policies, including examples of what kind of behavior can be seen as suspicious.

3rd update: Sept. 5, 2020 (funds still not released despite this email from them) The email I mentioned above which was communicated to me by "winnie" (this is the 4th communication from this person the same 1st one I spoke to claiming it was a technical issue then changed the reason to this kyc thing) stated this:


So I responded and I think this is the 8th or 10th time I told them same thing:

Their response:

I am under the impression that I would have received or had my funds released by now according to these communication because the 5 working days has passed and it may seem they have not made an internal decision to terminate the business relation because I can still login.  I have blatantly refused the kyc obviously here and I specifically stated so in multiple emails.  I am unsure of the wording because it seems to say to me that I should see the funds by 5 working days and in 15 days they may make a decision, again really unsure so I would like thoughts on this please.  Considering the last response and it's implied actions I do not think they are being honest yet and my funds are absolutely NOT "safe".  Thoughts?

Nobody is asking them to "under-interpret money laundering signals." We're just asking them to be smarter and more fair about the way that they go about doing it.

FATF are also not the ones telling KuCoin what specific policies they need to implement in order to remain legal. Read their recommendations for yourself:

https://www.fatf-gafi.org/media/fatf/documents/recommendations/12-Month-Review-Revised-FATF-Standards-Virtual-Assets-VASPS.pdf

I know people who have deposited thousands of dollars on other exchanges like eToro, Binance and Coinbase and withdrawn them the next day without any problems, so obviously its not a universal policy. As I said earlier it is simply KuCoin's interpretation of how AML policies should be implemented that is the problem. I've dealt with dozens of exchanges over the years and separating a user from their funds because they refuse to perform KYC should never be OK.



If they don't release your coins within the next week or so, let me know and I will put a red tag on their account.


OP: I wish I could help you more but XMR is a tricky situation since it is not traceable on its blockchain, and thus much harder to prove that your source of funds is legit. However, having read this:


Sounds like they are saying they will indeed release your funds back to you, so that's positive. That was 5 days ago. So you should be getting your funds released shortly (2-3 days) because you clarified with them that you indeed want to "terminate your business relationship".

If they don't do this I will show you how to open a Flag on their account which will indicate to anyone who visits the KuCoin thread that they don't live up to their word and people should be wary before depositing coins there.

Thank you I sincerely appreciate it.

I am thinking the same thing, so I sent an email after I posted and their response included was this:


I have been reviewing threads for many other kyc scam accusations and almost all of them end up going down this path, basically putting things off to an imaginary "department" that never seems to have an "update", passing the buck is the term I think.  Maybe I am being premature but, the timeline to return my funds is close to an end if not already passing. 

still no response so far? waiting for an happy end... please let us know how it ended... Depending on the end i may have to reconsider my trading and use of services with Kucoin...

They have allowed me to withdraw my coins however have frozen my account.  No loss I will not be trading there ever again.

thanx for updating us, there are enough good alternatives. good luck out there.

This is noted and a reference, the pressure is on them I thought based on this comment from Kucoin they are not going to grant the request

It's a win win situation for them it's not right to keep the user's fund it's more like stealing for them and Kucoin kept his reputation, it's better to wash their hands this way, than holding on something that is not theirs.