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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Jet Cash on August 31, 2020, 08:01:35 AM



Title: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on August 31, 2020, 08:01:35 AM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment. Obviously they are expecting difficulties with the use of banking accounts in the future. I suspect that they are expecting a financial reset, as governments try to replace the current virtual currency with a pseudo-crypto currency. Cash may become important in the transition period.

Bitcoin and alternative crypto currencies do provide alternatives,but they may continue to be slow in adoption. Cash has been trusted for many years despite the fact that it is a depreciating asset, and I believe that it will continue to be used after the change from the current banking system. Obviously banks will resist this, and any cash deposits will be withdrawn to reduce the supply. This could lead to an increase in the value of cash based on the current fiat currency, always providing that the public continues to use it of course.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: exstasie on August 31, 2020, 09:13:53 AM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment. Obviously they are expecting difficulties with the use of banking accounts in the future. I suspect that they are expecting a financial reset, as governments try to replace the current virtual currency with a pseudo-crypto currency. Cash may become important in the transition period.

Bitcoin and alternative crypto currencies do provide alternatives,but they may continue to be slow in adoption. Cash has been trusted for many years despite the fact that it is a depreciating asset, and I believe that it will continue to be used after the change from the current banking system. Obviously banks will resist this, and any cash deposits will be withdrawn to reduce the supply. This could lead to an increase in the value of cash based on the current fiat currency, always providing that the public continues to use it of course.

As long as depositors can withdraw cash, it'll stay pegged 1:1 to bank deposits. Sort of like when Bitfinex and Tether couldn't pay out withdrawals in April of 2017. The peg broke down and a 10-15% disparity developed between USDT and USD spot markets. If a bank run were to occur and people can't withdraw cash, I assume a similar disparity will develop, with people offering a premium for cash payments vs. electronic (bank-settled) payments. Ultimately it doesn't matter if demonetization occurs.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Ucy on August 31, 2020, 10:53:49 AM
Banks "resisting" means they would also no longer accept cash/physical-fiat currencies? I imagine that people will keep circulating the physical currencies until they gradually fade away and disappear. But I doubt all human beings in the world will stop using physical things they find appropriate as currencies


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Botnake on August 31, 2020, 11:29:45 AM
Banks "resisting" means they would also no longer accept cash/physical-fiat currencies?
Would this also mean that the central bank will stop printing money and we will only play with the supply and demand since paper money will become limited? It's quite complicated to me, @Jet Cash, can you enlighten me a bit?

I imagine that people will keep circulating the physical currencies until they gradually fade away and disappear. But I doubt all human beings in the world will stop using physical things they find appropriate as currencies

Big countries with advance financial system would prefer a digital currency but there's a big part of the world which still rely on paper money mostly as their infrastructures are not that capable to handle and make people fully adopt with digital currency, so they will continue to produce paper money.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: davis196 on August 31, 2020, 11:31:01 AM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment. Obviously they are expecting difficulties with the use of banking accounts in the future. I suspect that they are expecting a financial reset, as governments try to replace the current virtual currency with a pseudo-crypto currency. Cash may become important in the transition period.

Bitcoin and alternative crypto currencies do provide alternatives,but they may continue to be slow in adoption. Cash has been trusted for many years despite the fact that it is a depreciating asset, and I believe that it will continue to be used after the change from the current banking system. Obviously banks will resist this, and any cash deposits will be withdrawn to reduce the supply. This could lead to an increase in the value of cash based on the current fiat currency, always providing that the public continues to use it of course.

There's no evidence that governments are trying to replace virtual currencies with cryptocurrencies.Central bank digital currencies (CBDCs)are still in project phase in some countries.
Do you have any evidence that "many people are withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment" or you are talking about gossips and rumors?I don't want to discuss gossips,rumors and conspiracy theories.
$1 in cash and $1 in a bank deposit are exactly the same fiat currency.The only difference is that the bank owls you the $1 in your bank deposit.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on August 31, 2020, 12:13:13 PM
There are many reports available via a Google search. This is the first one that I found.
https://www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/us-banks-struggle-with-large-cash-withdrawals-amid-covid-19/


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Yatsan on August 31, 2020, 01:15:43 PM
Both cash withdrawn and cash deposited on banks are still fiat based currencies so they are still the same and cannot be further differentiated. It is just that as of the moment, there is really a high on demand on using cash which pushes people to do withdrawals rather than deposits for the fact that having cash aside from those digital money on digital wallets are badly needed as for now and people seems to find it hassle and senseless to deposit their money on banks when they are going to do withdrawals when cash is needed to sustain necessities at times like this.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Finestream on August 31, 2020, 01:20:34 PM
How can it be different? You deposit cash, you can withdraw cash as well, it's a fiat money, whether in the form of paper money and digital money and AFAIK, banks only print paper money but they don't generate digital money, so the supply is truly based on the money the bank have printed. Also, fiat system is not the same as the cryptocurrency where supply is limited, with fiat, the government can print money if they wish to with a valid justification, so I think nothing is different here.

There are many reports available via a Google search. This is the first one that I found.
https://www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/us-banks-struggle-with-large-cash-withdrawals-amid-covid-19/

Quote
Banks and credit unions across the United States have run low on cash as the coronavirus pandemic prompts customers to make unexpectedly big cash withdrawals.

As covid-19 worries cause large numbers of customers to withdraw huge amounts of cash at the same time, banks and regulators are beginning to fear a bank run.

Maybe banks run out of cash but this is just temporary because as long as they have a balance in their bank account, they can always convert that into paper money to whatever depository bank they are depositing their funds.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on August 31, 2020, 01:35:17 PM
There have been cash withdrawal limits, and Visa was down for a couple of days on a couple of occasions in the UK. I feel that these may have been deliberate trials to gauge public reactions. Also, I believe that the banks' creations will be pseudo crypto, rather than something that will benefit customers. I doubt if there will be a cap on issuance either.

I appreciate that cash and fiat deposits have linked values, but when the current fiat system is replaced, I wonder if the current cash notes will continue to be used, and, id so, for how long.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: stompix on August 31, 2020, 01:40:36 PM
There are many reports available via a Google search. This is the first one that I found.
https://www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/us-banks-struggle-with-large-cash-withdrawals-amid-covid-19/

That was April, and there is no data backing the claim of the author
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-coronavirus-is-doing-weird-things-to-the-banking-industry-11598779800

Quote
For the second quarter in a row, deposits increased by more than $1 trillion. There has been $2.4 trillion added in six months, five times any other six-month period, and roughly equal to the deposits of the entire industry in 1984. The big four banks have taken in $900 billion of the year’s gains.
Corporate customers have loaded up with cash to backstop their businesses through a long slowdown

And it's not just the US, in Europe we have the same situation, from France to Poland, deposits are growing.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/personal-finance/pandemic-triggers-surge-in-euro-zone-bank-deposits-1.4340205
 
Quote
Companies and households across the euro zone increased their deposits at banks by €184 billion in July, as money supply in the bloc rose by the fastest annual rate since the 2008 financial crisis, according to European Central Bank (ECB) data. Total deposits held by euro zone banks rose 10.3 per cent in the year to July, the ECB said on Thursday – climbing above €12 trillion for the first time and underlining how many households and companies have reacted to the economic fallout from the coronavirus pandemic by saving more money.

Do you have any evidence that "many people are withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment" or you are talking about gossips and rumors?I don't want to discuss gossips,rumors and conspiracy theories.

One branch out of 10 000 ran out of cash for a day and the whole internet was in apocalypse mode.
As per the articles I quoted above that have real data, not rumors, no such thing is happening, at least not in the western world.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: palle11 on August 31, 2020, 02:33:57 PM
There are many reports available via a Google search. This is the first one that I found.
https://www.retailbankerinternational.com/news/us-banks-struggle-with-large-cash-withdrawals-amid-covid-19/


Quote
Some banks have imposed withdrawal restrictions, while regulators warn consumers that keeping large amounts of cash can be risky, since it is more susceptible to loss by fire, flood, or theft.

Quote
Officials also pointed out that deposits at a bank or federally insured credit union are backed by the government up to $250,000.


Well going through the link, I think that all is normal with the huge withdrawals. Banks and government have restrictions already in place to guide against unnecessary bank transactions both with drawals. I guess this is the control as against a decentralized system. With the bank system, all seem to be in control but cryptocurrency gives freedom to handle your assets how you wish. That's is the difference


Quote
A spokesman for London-based HSBC said the bank, which operates globally with retail branches in the U.S., had not seen any change in cash withdrawal patterns.

David Tente, executive director of the ATM Industry Association for the U.S., Canada and the Americas, said he had not heard any reports of consumers rushing for cash, but acknowledged that such a need could arise.

“It would not be unusual in times of crisis to see that happen — people are going to rely on cash if they are concerned about being able to purchase what they need,” he said.

Quote
UK keeping an eye on situation

A spokesperson for UK Finance, a trade association that represents the banking and financial services industry in Great Britain, said it had not seen any rush for cash withdrawals.

However, officials said the UK cash industry had contingency plans in place to deal with a range of scenarios and was closely monitoring developments.

From the bank statement of the bank officials, I can just deduce that the withdrawals are for needs and investment like buying of cryptocurrency too because many businesses are springing up on the internet.



Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on August 31, 2020, 02:39:59 PM
Banknotes give you freedom as well. :)

Anyway this thread was intended to be speculation about the future,rather than comments on the past or present. I'm holding banknotes just in case there are difficulties in the future.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: nienzer on August 31, 2020, 02:51:02 PM
We dont see the same level of cash withdrawal as it was before. Banks should be strong enough to survive this


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: palle11 on August 31, 2020, 02:51:52 PM

just in case there are difficulties in the future.

Just incase what happens mate  ;D

Are you having any dream ??? Please share  ;D

The US election is coming in November and we are all going to be here, celebrate a peaceful transition of government.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: mu_enrico on August 31, 2020, 04:41:57 PM
Not sure if cash and demand deposits are different in your country, but it's different in my country. Not a different currency per se, but different in legality (and issuer). The central bank issues cash, whereas commercial banks issue demand deposits.
Everyone must accept payment in cash, but they can reject payment via bank transfer, cheque, etc.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: thesmallgod on August 31, 2020, 05:41:17 PM
Do you in my country, government through the Central bank makes a rule that make it impossible to collect some little amount of money from the bank. You will be told to make use of your debit card. With the recent pandemic and continuous debate about economic recession people are fearing of losing their money and that is the reason there has been continuous withdrawal more than deposit. I strongly believes it will get to a point when the bank will be limiting the number of withdrawal


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Oasisman on August 31, 2020, 09:33:24 PM
Everyone must accept payment in cash, but they can reject payment via bank transfer, cheque, etc.

This is the one of the main reason why people were withdrawing their money from the banks. In this dire situation where there's a threat of a financial reset, it's always gonna be better If you have cash on your hands.
Everyone accepts cash, I mean literally everyone, and only cash has the most convenient access to everything around you.
Another thing is the continued depreciation of the fiat currency, thus people are looking to invest their money on something that has a chance to grow it rather than It will gradually lose it's value. Bitcoin is amongst the best options an investor could choose from the list.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: erikoy on August 31, 2020, 09:59:35 PM
Yeah this is a nice way of thinking out why the fiat currency had been always subject to lesser capacity to buy over the period of time this because of the banks with their cashless base transaction which does not use the fiat or physical money itself. Now, because the only thing that shows in using bank service in transaction are thimise digital numbers then was there an only made as a back up. But if that fiat will going to circulate then high chances that it could get a high value or high capacity to buy knowing the economic rules on demand and supply. If only this fiat money will going to circulate then we could really see an increase value of fiats.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: gaston castano on September 01, 2020, 04:26:04 AM
of course cash will continue to be used regardless of future developments in money, say almost all countries will use digital systems but fiat money will continue to exist and be used.
Why do you think the amount of cash withdrawals is limited, maybe because they want people to stay dependent on the bank, or indeed the money in the bank runs out of funds.Several local banks in my country are enforcing the regulation in the midst of a pandemic like this, which worries some customers.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: taufik123 on September 01, 2020, 05:21:37 AM
Banks "resisting" means they would also no longer accept cash/physical-fiat currencies? I imagine that people will keep circulating the physical currencies until they gradually fade away and disappear. But I doubt all human beings in the world will stop using physical things they find appropriate as currencies
People will still use physical currency even though virtual currency is becoming very popular.

Just imagine when the internet and electricity went out for a few days virtual currency could not be used, so physical currency would be needed to make real payments without any interruption.

Physical currency and digital currency will still coexist and are needed so that there will be 2 options to choose from. The government cannot eliminate one of them.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 01, 2020, 06:27:16 AM
There seems to be a blurring of the meanings of words like money, currency and cash. Warren Buffet is reputed to have over $2billion in cash, but that won't be banknotes stuffed under his mattress, it will be fiat currency deposits in banks. Similarly people refer to fiat banknotes as money, but money is a medium of exchange with a hard underlying asset value. Strictly speaking, fiat banknotes are no longer. money, as they have no hard asset value. However, most dictionaries define money as a generally accepted medium of exchange. The English pound used to be exchangeable for a pound of silver, but that is no longer the case. The promise of the banknotes to pay the bearer one pound is pretty meaningless today. So what will happen to that promise if the new quasi-crypto currency is no longer called the pound?

Some US states have developed an interesting currency - it is a gold infused note ( not a banknote ), and this indicates the appreciation that there is a need for a hard asset currency. Bitcoin is the only crypto that has a hard asset value, and so do gold and silver coins. My speculation is whether the current banknotes will continue to be used after the current virtual fiat currencies are replaced. Will they cease to have value like the national currencies of countries that were sucked into the Eurozone? Will people try to replace them with new "money" like the gold infused notes, or will they carry on using the old banknotes as tokens?


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: crwth on September 01, 2020, 06:37:30 AM
So basically, you can be considered rich even if you don't have the tangible assets in your hand based on what number is in your bank account. That's it pretty much. I think that poses a problem with cash because of the non-availability of withdrawing money makes it more like it's not yours. The banks would have a problem if they cannot guarantee the amount that they can give to their clients, and I agree with the difficulties in the future.

I'm still quite mixed with it, to be honest, because cashless transactions have always been the future, and we are almost there, to be honest. More applications with crypto would be excellent, but despite all of that, there would still be cash transactions.

Maybe consider cash and bank deposits as digital and the physical type? Which you cannot wholly disregard, any of the two. I can't seem to find good reference material for those gold-infused notes that you are talking about as well.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: slapper on September 01, 2020, 12:03:43 PM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment. Obviously they are expecting difficulties with the use of banking accounts in the future. I suspect that they are expecting a financial reset, as governments try to replace the current virtual currency with a pseudo-crypto currency. Cash may become important in the transition period.

Bitcoin and alternative crypto currencies do provide alternatives,but they may continue to be slow in adoption. Cash has been trusted for many years despite the fact that it is a depreciating asset, and I believe that it will continue to be used after the change from the current banking system. Obviously banks will resist this, and any cash deposits will be withdrawn to reduce the supply. This could lead to an increase in the value of cash based on the current fiat currency, always providing that the public continues to use it of course.
Actually, the banking system works very well up to now. They always make something new in order to be suitable for everyone. Withdrawing money does not mean that the bank is losing its strength. The world is in the middle of a crisis and therefore, people want to keep the money close to them so as to deal with daily needs. There are still many benefits created by cash which can not be replaced in the near future. And cash is still being controlled by the bank and the government. You can never change that. After all, money is just a tool for people to manipulate everything


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: bitgolden on September 01, 2020, 12:21:46 PM
I feel like maybe digital currency thing is just all about numbers, not crypto by the way, the money you have on your bank that you never spend, all that looks like just a regular numbers play and not really all that realistic to me.

The funny thing we all see online for example about how "world owes 40 trillion dollars" and all that and everyone is asking like "who do we owe it to, sun?" makes sense to be honest, everyone owes money to each other, and I mean everyone, nobody is debt free, individually you owe taxes to government if you do not owe to banks, and those same banks just uses the money they have on their vaults and even more just to both invest and give out loans to make more money, well there is a limited amount of money, how could everyone pay it back with interest if there isn't that much money to begin with?


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on September 01, 2020, 04:25:39 PM
Jet Cash, great to see you're still around.

I hadn't heard any news about cash hoarding, so thanks for that link to the article--but it was from April (as stompix pointed out), when people were really freaking out about what was going to happen with COVID-19.  I remember going to the grocery store around the time when the outbreak was declared a pandemic, and the cat food shelves were nearly empty.  People were starting to hoard all sorts of stuff.

Governments could demonetize paper currency and coins if they wanted to, and they could thus force citizens to use the banking system (or create an electronic currency themselves, as OP alluded to).  I think China is or was headed down that path, but I'm hoping N. America, Europe, and the rest of the developed parts of the world don't consider it.  I would hate to lose the ability to use physical money as a means of payment, especially when the power goes out.

I'd also hate to use a digital form of money issued and tracked by the government.  The banking system is bad enough, but the loss of privacy would be devastating--to me, at least.  Seems like most people don't care about anonymity when it comes to their financial transactions.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Findingnemo on September 01, 2020, 05:56:18 PM

People who deposited large amount of cash in their bank accounts are not really smart enough to understand about these things in my opinion, I guess they are doing it just because of usage purpose because banks are not user friendly with their payments to be honest,so of they have they can use it in the way they want and also another reason could to for buying gold.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: shield132 on September 01, 2020, 07:31:39 PM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment. Obviously they are expecting difficulties with the use of banking accounts in the future. I suspect that they are expecting a financial reset, as governments try to replace the current virtual currency with a pseudo-crypto currency. Cash may become important in the transition period.

Bitcoin and alternative crypto currencies do provide alternatives,but they may continue to be slow in adoption. Cash has been trusted for many years despite the fact that it is a depreciating asset, and I believe that it will continue to be used after the change from the current banking system. Obviously banks will resist this, and any cash deposits will be withdrawn to reduce the supply. This could lead to an increase in the value of cash based on the current fiat currency, always providing that the public continues to use it of course.
What gives us a reason to say that many people seem to be withdrawing large amounts of cash at the moment? Personally I haven't seen such fact and news too. Is there any reliable website that states statistics? Things are going as they were in past, personally that's what I see.
Also I want to say that people aren't that much interested in economics and they don't think like oh, governments are going to make fiat useless and I think me and my friends have to use alternatives like cryptocurrencies in order to escape from this situation me and population. No! People don't think that way and don't give a much shit to that.

The benefits of cash is that it can be untraceable if two or more persons that have a deal trust each other blindly and are a men of their words. That's were cash shines.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: exstasie on September 01, 2020, 11:56:36 PM
Banknotes give you freedom as well. :)

Anyway this thread was intended to be speculation about the future,rather than comments on the past or present. I'm holding banknotes just in case there are difficulties in the future.

Beware, those banknotes can be demonetized. Just ask Indians who were holding large denomination bills in 2016. They had to deposit all that cash into the banking system or otherwise risk losing all its value. There were widespread and prolonged cash shortages at the same time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Indian_banknote_demonetisation

Cash is one exit plan, but it's best to have multiple. BTC and physical gold are a couple other reasonable options.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Wexnident on September 02, 2020, 12:45:02 AM
Hmmm, imo digital fiat has always been what we've always needed, especially to make it a lot easier in the sense of probably everything? Even if we do consider the money inside the bank and a centralized digital wallet controlled by the government different, it'd still only take a tap wherever you are to transact a withdrawal, but if they combined both (wallet and bank) then that would make things a lot easier. Still, I think there's no need to differentiate the two, since it's more like you're just putting your money in a storage, and you can't really call it a different currency by then right?

Still, I highly doubt that the existence of fiat banknotes would disappear anytime sooner. Before cashless transactions are made a thing, a lot of things need to be worked on, especially in third world countries. Still though, I highly doubt it would make a big influence on a possible financial reset, especially since it's a centralized asset. I'm pretty sure most would rather go for the old but gold (literally) or Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: ampu on September 02, 2020, 06:14:43 AM
Banknotes give you freedom as well. :)

Anyway this thread was intended to be speculation about the future,rather than comments on the past or present. I'm holding banknotes just in case there are difficulties in the future.
The bank is currently encouraging people to transfer more money using mobile apps and internet banking. I think the numbers in our account are generated by the bank itself and it looks more virtual than the cryptocurrencies in the market. I think they are creating a habit of not using cash for people. Cash is completely different, they have value in existence, anonymity, and cannot track transactions.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Salauddin1994 on September 02, 2020, 06:32:31 AM
I don't know when to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies but both help in different ways. If the usable portion of the FC and NFCD accounts of the banks is used to supply liquidity in the local interbank money market instead of cash, it will be possible to reduce the current interest rates on loans and deposits through cash. Deposits in banks are usually made with the future in mind. Banks can take advantage of this for a short period of time but in the case of crypto, it is completely different because crypto is not under anyone's control.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 02, 2020, 07:17:22 AM
Well, since we have a zero reserve policy at the moment, banks don't need deposits to lend money. In fact deposits can be a nuisance, as they cost money to maintain. However, they do bring in customers to be persuaded to take out loans, and then their assets can be repossessed when they lose their jobs.

Money in the form of gold coins and bullion bars is still used as a currency amongst the elite, and the UK government gives them various tax breaks to do this. I guess this is because they know the true value of fiat currencies.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Mauser on September 02, 2020, 08:08:51 AM
Well, since we have a zero reserve policy at the moment, banks don't need deposits to lend money. In fact deposits can be a nuisance, as they cost money to maintain. However, they do bring in customers to be persuaded to take out loans, and then their assets can be repossessed when they lose their jobs.

Money in the form of gold coins and bullion bars is still used as a currency amongst the elite, and the UK government gives them various tax breaks to do this. I guess this is because they know the true value of fiat currencies.

As long as the government is still guaranteeing bank deposits until a certain level we should be fine.  Of course cash at home is different to money at the bank because it's just not the same availability. Most banks have a limit of daily or weekly withdrawl, so full access on your money might not be really there and it could take a few weeks to get all our money converted into cash. But on the other side there are security risk with having a large amount of cash at home.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: MCobian on September 02, 2020, 09:39:53 AM
In value it may be said to be the same between cash and bank deposits, but the function must be different. So it can be said that the two of
them are different currencies. Now that the number of cash withdrawals is increasing, maybe many people need to buy daily necessities.
Therefore cash withdrawals in various countries are limited by the government, this is the goal so as not to have too much cash money
circulating.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Jet Cash on September 02, 2020, 09:47:48 AM
The government only guarantees to replace valueless fiat with more valueless fiat if a bank becomes insolvent. Now that bail-ins have become legal, a bank is unlikely to become insolvent, as it can take your deposits to cover its toxic loan losses. ( and pay bonuses to incompetent ot fraudulent executives).

Cash will become more important as banks chase down credit limits. This means that if you pay money into an overdrawn account, then the bank will reduce your credit limit to absorb the deposit. You may need to maintain the overdraft for daily living expenses. Once you realise the risk, then you will keep your money in cash, and use that to pay for your daily expenses.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Ucy on September 02, 2020, 10:21:17 AM
I know they are both based on fiat values, and governments are trying to reduce the use of cash, but many people s...... that the public continues to use it of course.
Actually, the banking system works very well up to now. They always make something new in order to be suitable for everyone. Withdrawing money does not mean that the bank is losing its strength. The world is in the middle of a crisis and therefore, people want to keep the money close to them so as to deal with daily needs. There are still many benefits created by cash which can not be replaced in the near future. And cash is still being controlled by the bank and the government. You can never change that. After all, money is just a tool for people to manipulate everything

Quote
The world is in the middle of a crisis





That👆 got me abit confused... So, I had to check again what "middle-class" means and what crisis they are talking about:

Middle-Class by https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/working-class-vs-middle-class-14881073 :
Quote
"They make more than the poverty line, and may even technically make enough to be earn a middle class by
income , but they still live paycheck to paycheck. Working class today describes having a job but feeling poor, or making enough to get by without much else"


Guess this sounds fair. Other definitions focus more on civil servants and those who "live on paychecks" or something. Made me wonder if they also factor in numerous self-employed "middle-class", and "wealthy" self-employed.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: exstasie on September 02, 2020, 07:11:33 PM
The government only guarantees to replace valueless fiat with more valueless fiat if a bank becomes insolvent. Now that bail-ins have become legal, a bank is unlikely to become insolvent, as it can take your deposits to cover its toxic loan losses. ( and pay bonuses to incompetent ot fraudulent executives).

Cash will become more important as banks chase down credit limits. This means that if you pay money into an overdrawn account, then the bank will reduce your credit limit to absorb the deposit. You may need to maintain the overdraft for daily living expenses. Once you realise the risk, then you will keep your money in cash, and use that to pay for your daily expenses.

Well is fiat valueless, or does cash have value? Which one is it? :D

I think you're focusing too much on the bail-in risk and not enough on the demonetization risk. Legal tender can lose its status at any time. Whether you're holding cash or bank deposits, holding fiat money at all exposes you to sudden risk of devaluation. So you certainly don't want to put all your eggs in one basket (cash).

I'm also a bit unclear on this scenario you're suggesting. Bail-ins claw back a percentage of customer deposits, so they should never make customer accounts negative. Where do these overdrafts and credit limits come into play?


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: int03h on September 03, 2020, 03:54:04 AM
I think nature is different. Cash is anonymous and has immediate value remaining money in a bank account that may belong to the bank. If you want to make a large amount of money transaction, a bank officer will call you and they may ask you to come to the bank to make the transaction. When there is too much money in your bank account, you become a target for government audits.
The most important thing is the liquidity and safety we can have stablecoins with staking capabilities.
https://bitcoinist.com/stablecoin-staking-is-finally-possible/


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: verita1 on September 03, 2020, 05:11:13 AM
Venezuelans no longer make cash deposits in banks due to the high inflation we have. This situation has been going on for at least three years.

In times of pandemic, banks open their offices one week, and the following week they remain closed. Users can only withdraw cash less than $ 1 daily.

Cash circulates between merchants and consumers. There is also a circulating of the US dollar to a lesser extent.

The supply and demand of goods and services are paid through debit cards, mobile payments, transfers, cash and US dollars.

I can take advantage of the low prices on my purchases if I pay in cash.
This situation is an overwhelming because it results in the high prices of goods and services.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: beerlover on September 03, 2020, 02:36:29 PM
They have been different things for the past 40 or so years and never been the same thing. Obviously speaking they haven't been the same thing a lot longer before technology caught up as well since the first time banks were a thing or even a treasure was a thing, but it became a lot more professional and legal in the past 40 years. After 80's banks and similar places realized that they could take cash and they could leverage it up a ton more than what they have, they have done it.

So, if you think that cash in your hands is more powerful than the money in the bank, you are 100% right. Plus think of all the rich people, Jeff Bezos said to have 200 billion worth for example, do you think he has 200 billion dollars on bank account? No. He doesn't even have that, he has assets worth that much let alone cash itself. So, there are layers to it too.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: lumeire on September 03, 2020, 02:45:18 PM
I think nature is different. Cash is anonymous and has immediate value remaining money in a bank account that may belong to the bank. If you want to make a large amount of money transaction, a bank officer will call you and they may ask you to come to the bank to make the transaction. When there is too much money in your bank account, you become a target for government audits.
The most important thing is the liquidity and safety we can have stablecoins with staking capabilities.
https://bitcoinist.com/stablecoin-staking-is-finally-possible/
The returns on the stable coin staking will also become less as more and more people join the staking process and also this don't seem too good for me as these stable coins are always centralized and can also fall any day. Running master nodes and investing and then staking the POS coins feels good for me and I am searching for new cryptocurrencies that are of low entry point and are having a good future also. Staking stable coins feels the same way as you with your money in the bank accounts but having more risk of hacks.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Rengga Jati on September 03, 2020, 11:15:00 PM
Can the government really limit the withdrawal of their deposits on the bank? Of course, in fact, yes. Moreover, if it is concerned with the bankruptcy. There will be limited to withdraw, moreover tot eh cash.
Here, we can find out many e-wallets that is used in the country. The use of this can really reduce the use of cash money for transactions.

But let's see, if they limit the withdrawal and they start to make cash as soon as possible, will they really run out the cash?
It may probably encourage the emergence of the cryptocurrency in every country.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Shasha80 on September 03, 2020, 11:59:03 PM
I agree that cash and bank deposits are indeed different currencies, therefore almost all banks in the world encourage customers to do so
deposit. And make various ways so that the amount of bank deposits is greater than the cash money in circulation. One way to limit the
amount of withdrawal of the bank deposit, therefore we usually cannot withdraw all the money we have in our bank account. Because
the bank uses the customer's money in the bank deposits to be managed into the bank's profit. Usually bank deposits are used to make
loans to several clients. So the amount of interest on bank loans must be greater than deposit interest.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: wiss19 on September 04, 2020, 04:23:26 AM
Where did you see or hear that the government wants to replace the current monetary system with pseudo cryptocurrency? I have never heard that, not in my own country, and I don’t think that there is any government around the world that has plans to replace their conventional currency with cryptocurrency.

The only country talking about cryptocurrency was China but no one is talking about that any longer, and when they release their cryptocurrency it’s likely going to be like other countries that created their cryptocurrency and abandoned it. Bitcoin is like the main thing people are interested. And anything that’s coming from the government should still be considered as fiat, if they create cryptocurrency they are going to link it with banks.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: shoreno on September 04, 2020, 05:47:20 AM
Where did you see or hear that the government wants to replace the current monetary system with pseudo cryptocurrency? I have never heard that, not in my own country, and I don’t think that there is any government around the world that has plans to replace their conventional currency with cryptocurrency.
i have seen a topic on this forum before , it was an asian country that plans to digitalize thier payment system and they also create a crypto of thier own so they are prolly going to use this crypto for the first time instead of known cryptos .

and if this fail maybe they will re consider adding  known cryptos like btc . as we all know that btc and known cryptos are still in favored by the local people .


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: mersal on September 04, 2020, 02:33:40 PM
Can the government really limit the withdrawal of their deposits on the bank? Of course, in fact, yes. Moreover, if it is concerned with the bankruptcy. There will be limited to withdraw, moreover tot eh cash.
Here, we can find out many e-wallets that is used in the country. The use of this can really reduce the use of cash money for transactions.

But let's see, if they limit the withdrawal and they start to make cash as soon as possible, will they really run out the cash?
It may probably encourage the emergence of the cryptocurrency in every country.
But now banks are not going to limit their withdrawals because cash flow is very important for any economy to get recovered from this pandemic crisis so how they are going to stop the circulating supply? But as a user many people are interested in something which doesn't have depreciating value at the moment and gold will be better option than any other thing for now so most of the withdrawals are for investments in my opinion.For the bankruptcy issue banks might increase their minimum balance limit so they won't go bankrupt.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Gozie51 on September 04, 2020, 10:02:59 PM

So the amount of interest on bank loans must be greater than deposit interest.

Not in all situation or not in all cases. This is a mechanism that government can use to regulate money in circulation maybe if the government want to reduce hardship, inflation etc or to discourage borrowing. Like increase in loan interest will increase the amount of money in the back and decrease in interest will make to be reduced in the bank because more people will come borrowing.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: el kaka22 on September 05, 2020, 06:39:28 AM
World has changed so much in the past 30 years, we could easily say that we are living in a world where cash doesn't even exists anymore. Sure we all use cash time to time but think of the frequency of you using cash, literally banknotes over the times you use your card.

I can easily say that banknotes are less than 5 of what I spend, over 95% of my expense is paid with cards or even via bank transfers because those are a lot easier, paying with cash is not the hard part, you give them some paper and they give you some paper back it is quite easy concept and definitely easier and quicker than using a card with a machine and putting pin and so forth which takes more time, however the protection of cash is the hard thing, think about carrying all that cash around or keeping it at home, it is riskier.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Mauser on September 05, 2020, 07:02:28 AM
World has changed so much in the past 30 years, we could easily say that we are living in a world where cash doesn't even exists anymore. Sure we all use cash time to time but think of the frequency of you using cash, literally banknotes over the times you use your card.

I can easily say that banknotes are less than 5 of what I spend, over 95% of my expense is paid with cards or even via bank transfers because those are a lot easier, paying with cash is not the hard part, you give them some paper and they give you some paper back it is quite easy concept and definitely easier and quicker than using a card with a machine and putting pin and so forth which takes more time, however the protection of cash is the hard thing, think about carrying all that cash around or keeping it at home, it is riskier.

For us consumers electronic payments are awesome, we don't have to carry big wallets around and have it much easier to get a summary of our spending and earnings. Also the risk of people stealing our money is much smaller with electronic wallets than the usual pocket wallet. Even if someone gets access to our bank accounts, the loss is insured and we don't suffer any damage.

The only problem I see is that Cash is still king, especially when dealing with builders or salesman. With electronic payments it's getting almost impossible to avoid taxation where as when paying with cash it's much easier to cheat the government. When renovating the kitchen I got asked a few times if things could be done of the books and it would save me some money. Black labour is still a big issues in todays time.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: el kaka22 on September 06, 2020, 02:12:07 PM
^Cash is king only in small sectors and few stuff in life, I still pay cash to taxi for example and most of the world pays cash to taxi, so there are small places of life where you do pay cash but it is not common, if you check you will realize that I am right, only 5% of your money spent with cash, the rest is actually spent with card or whatever other digital stuff is, that is why I keep saying that there is really no way that people should consider cash as an important thing anymore.

I feel like if I want to go cashless forever, I could actually do that, would I have trouble time to time? I sure would, but there is really not that many places that doesn't accept my card so unless something unexpected happens like electricity going out or whatever we might have a trouble, aside from that you really wouldn't need it.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: bearexin on September 06, 2020, 02:42:58 PM
Fiat is like the basic or the main thing, every other thing is just an asset that has a value based on fiat. So basically Bitcoin and fiat are two different things right from time, and Bitcoin is not a currency, fiat is the currency. And when you say Cash, cash is also fiat and fiat can as well be used through digital means such as PayPal and your bank’s mobile app or internet banking.

Where did you see the news that the government is trying to reduce cash or something? That’s not true, I have not seen anywhere they are trying to do that. Cash is the main money and in most places you will go that’s what’s being accepted. As for Bitcoin, you can only make use of it online.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: iv4n on September 09, 2020, 09:10:35 PM
We can't think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies, simply because they have the same origin! They came from the same place, the same rules apply on both. $100 in cash is the same as $100 on your card, and tomorrow if dollar lose value (or rise) your cash/card money will still have the same value. The future world is going to be "online world", it's happening now as we speak, and in future it will be if you are not online it's like you are not alive. Crypto is alternative now, but tomorrow will be the main medium of exchange, whether you like it or not. Technology is taking primate in all sectors, and what future generations will do is to push all this to another level!


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: fiulpro on September 10, 2020, 06:11:02 PM
When you are using a bank locally where you can withdraw the money without paying any fee to the bank and the ATM then for sure they can be pegged for 1:1.

But , let me tell you something about using banks globally. If you are withdrawing the money 💰 in some other country then you do have to pay a considerable amount of fee , sometimes it's 10$ , sometimes even more or less depending on where you are withdrawing and how much.
It normally includes : currency exchange rates+atm charges+ bank charges.

Therefore if someone asks me if they can pay in my bank or give me cash , I would prefer cash while dealing with the global transactions.

BUT

If I am going to use a local bank then it's a whole different story . Apparently the money in the bank are classified as *white* while the ones in the hand are a little risky if you do have a lot. Therefore if I am using a local bank and do have a substantial amount of money then of course the bank one would be way better.

Therefore I do believe we have various situations here.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Larelel on September 14, 2020, 09:49:35 AM
It seems to me that Jet Cash has mixed negative interest rates in some countries like EU with other bank products. If your bank is charging you for keeping your money with it, then just transfer your funds into other assets, i.e. Gold or BTC


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: hongchao123 on September 14, 2020, 01:10:07 PM
Not your keys, not your crypto. Not your cash, not your money. Same system here, especially after zero reserve system instead of fractional


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: jostorres on September 15, 2020, 07:38:13 AM
I don’t really know about that, but in some situations people tends to be in need of cash. Just like when there was a lockdown, a lot of people were rushing to the banks to withdraw more cash and store at home, to the extent the government was trying to limit how much they can withdraw from the banks.

There are other payment methods, but there are places that are not really technologically advanced so they can’t make use of these other payment methods. It’s just like when I go to the market to buy foodstuffs, none of them are accepting cryptocurrency or any of these online payment methods, all they go for is cash. So people will definitely be in need of cash more than any other payment method.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: barbara44 on September 15, 2020, 08:34:30 AM
They could totally be the same thing if the governments finally came to senses and told the banks that they have to have exactly reserves for exact moves, which means if banks do anything, they have to actually have the physical cash on their vaults to do that thing, they can't just have 10 bucks on vault and give 100 bucks loan, and 100 bucks investment, that is 10 to 200 difference, but if they have 10 and give out 10 and forced to stay in that range, that means there will always be the same amount of money as what digital numbers suggests.

This is why I believe it is totally possible that we could go back to both things meaning the same thing, but we just need to convince the politicians to make the regulations a bit more harsher on the banks if we want that to happen.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: Kasabus on September 15, 2020, 11:26:56 PM
I don’t really know about that, but in some situations people tends to be in need of cash. Just like when there was a lockdown, a lot of people were rushing to the banks to withdraw more cash and store at home, to the extent the government was trying to limit how much they can withdraw from the banks.

There are other payment methods, but there are places that are not really technologically advanced so they can’t make use of these other payment methods. It’s just like when I go to the market to buy foodstuffs, none of them are accepting cryptocurrency or any of these online payment methods, all they go for is cash. So people will definitely be in need of cash more than any other payment method.
Cash and bank deposits are totally the same because they are still both using the fiat system. Since we are facing a pandemic at this moment, it is already expected that people would prefer to have their cash onhand than going out from their homes and do bank deposits. There might be less deposits at this time due to lockdowns because people are totally in need of cash to sustain their basic needs for their own survival.


Title: Re: Is it time to think of cash and bank deposits as different currencies?
Post by: hulla on September 16, 2020, 01:04:12 AM
Is not yet the time to see cash and bank deposits as different currencies cause the government are yet to create a digital national currency which will limit the amount of new cash printing and use of physical fiat currency. However, Bitcoin and others crypto adoption maybe slow now but will definitely increase in the future when people totally understand it benefit and was what happened when the Internet was first introduced then people dont want to use it, now we cant do without it.