Bitcoin Forum

Leverage trading is big scam??

Every time I Go for long the market goes short.
And it seems to me that bot is Reading and will make quick buy or sell order If the price Get close to profit price!!

And then we hear After few days that 70% long traders Got liqutated.  

It looks like no matter If we follow the indicators or Price analysis someone there have the Price fixed.

And what Else is seems to me that the exchangers Will make the Direction to the opposite the bets.

It Can't be true just mathematically that biggest% Leversge traders getting liquitated everytime by

70-90% of the traders.  



I Don't mind that as exchangers have Right to make money but I Want to Know at least they Can tell me so I Can make money Together with them

The whole trading this is very fishy. There are big groups who manipulate coin price. They pump and dump coins with their groups and not to mention the whales will always manipulate the market. Best practice is if you are into bitcoin then hold it!

Do not fall for these scams. Very few people can make money from trading. 

To OP, have you tried to counter your trade? Like when you have a long trade, you try to short it, lol. It's kinda funny, but sometimes I also think like that especially when I have consecutive losses on trades.

I also think about this, especially when you are in some social medias, some "traders" there are used to flex their gains for their own trades, and some of them are selling courses or paid signals which really fishy.

If Everybody start to undestood this they stop trading or Even they Get away from cryptocurrency! 

As nobody Don't like to be the one who Get scammed. 

Futures leverage trading as it is a little more complicated than normal day trading, so it may not be for everyone. But what you're describing sounds strange and I've not come across this before. What I suspect is happening is large movements in the market caused by large liquidity which is messing with your leverage trading not allowing you to get a healthy profit. This could also be caused by the volatility of the exchange. Test out the system with lower volumes, see what happens then.

When you visit a casino, place bets and make consecutive losses, does it turn into scam?

Religiously following Technical Indicators alone is not enough when it comes Margin trading, you will get rekt every now and then until you learn a lesson. Remember you are not the only one following the charts, making Technical Analysis and anticipating price movements in a certain direction. There are so many players in the game, huge and small. You have to think smart. Margin trading is not all about just TA and opening positions. You need to up your game on risk management, learn to put up stop-losses to avoid getting liquidated, Keep emotions in check etc

Certain institutions and big players know the psychology at play of the small fish in the sea, they can sometimes set Bull traps (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/bulltrap.asp) or bear traps (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beartrap.asp) once the small fish get caught in the trap by opening positions, the price reverses.

Most legit exchanges make money through fees. When you make profits, it means someone out there has lost, not the exchange. When you make a loss, it means someone on the other side has won, not the exchange. What is the point of blaming the exchange for your loss due to poor decisions?

This could be more likely with centralized, non-transparent exchanges with alot of data, assuming it's true. I think it could be considered a crime if the intention of the bots creators is to have them do exactly what you posted. So you'll need solid proofs to back up your claim.
In ideal situation, the trading platforms would be accountable and punished by organized decentralized communities for bad behavior.

leverage trading (margin trading) is not considered a scam. If you take a look at it and you will surely realize that many people can still get rich through full time trading. The important thing this is the game of gambling, it affects the psychology a lot. The initial loss is a sure thing for all traders, this industry is really hard to make money. So you should not accuse margin trading as a scam, just because you do not have enough knowledge and experience to make money.

I think they worked together for a long time. The typical example is Binance exchange, when the market has great volatility, almost everyone cannot trade because of lag. The strange thing is that there were a lot of coins traded during that time and our traders just looked at the price and couldn't do anything. There have been many theories that claim the founders of exchange used gimmicks and support for whales to manipulate. personally in my opinion I believe in this manipulation cooperation, what about you?

Possible but we cant make out conclusions when it comes to collaboration between exchange owners and whales when it comes to this matter.This is one of the factors or reasons why i dont really tend to touch
futures trading due to this possible reason but actually there are really people who do still make money out of this one.

Just like on what being said above on when you do find you trading analysis or calls is on loss then do try to revert or go oppose with it and you will find if there would be such changes when it comes to profitability.
Ive been doing this since when im still on forex and market day and it do somehow works.

Calling it scam is inappropriate though but i cant blame out the feeling that would come out when you do deal with leverage.When price movement do always turn against you.

The moment you start thinking of trading as gambling, that is when you start making mistakes in your trades, because ultimately there is no strategy for succeeding in gambling, it is a fact that the house has a long term edge against you in ever game you play, but trading is not like that at all.

Trading is supposed to be a science of estimating what range the price is going to be. You're not supposed to treat it like a black and white win/loss outcome. In gambling there are only these two possibilities, nothing in between. But given a deposit amount to an exchange you can gain more money, or part of it back, in one shot. This is why trading and gambling are not good analogies.

OP: you wrote:


The problem is you are trading with leverage, maybe even high leverage, which makes big profits but also big losses. The golden rule all serious regulated exchanges tell you is that using leverage is risky and might leave you with less money than what you started with, or no money at all. So when you use leverage use it only with a small portion of your portfolio.

(And yet, there are some exchanges out there that market high leverage on their platforms like it's a good thing!)

The solution is? Buy the dip when they dump, and HODL! With enough HODLers, there will be less and less sell pressure from the whale-cumulators, talking Bitcoin's 200-week SME higher and higher.

Just because you lose some money, doesn't mean it is a scam. I do agree that is highly risky and you can't know for sure whether the price is suppressed by some interested parties or not, but the concept itself is not really new and scammy. You should always use stop-loss to avoid being trapped in a loss position. If not, who knows what will happen.

Btw, I don't see holding as something closely related to futures. I think we're talking about different things here, since there is a bigger risk with holding your position if the market is against you.

Leverage trading is not a scam because if you have skills to analyze the bitcoin moves, you will know when you should enter the market. The risk in leveraged trading will be bigger than normal trading, and you should have more skills to trade. I don't recommend people who don't have the skills to leverage trading because they will only give their money without making a profit.

If you can do leverage trading with good, I am sure you will profit because the potential to make a profit will be bigger.

They should tell you so you can make money? ??? If they will have to tell you, then they will also have to tell other people as well, and that means they are probably f*** themselves up pretty badly. Before now I have always been seeing people that are saying that these exchanges are always controlling the market so that a lot of people will lose, because when traders are losing , that means a lot of money for them, but if people are winning, then they will likely be the ones to be losing, so they everything in their power to change it.

If you can’t go with it, it would be better for you to just quit and look for better things to do than keep on wasting your money.

Problem is you never know when is the deep. When BTC price gone down to $3,200 everyone thought it will go more down and waited but then it came back again to $8k. Now it's on and off to $11k. I think the best strategy is, when you have extra free money, buy the coin no matter the price.

Dollar-cost-averaging is your friend. Buy more as the price goes deeper down. Plus yeah, you should have a job to regularly HODL and save some of your monthly salary in Bitcoin, unless most of the posters in the forum are only students without jobs?

If you Don't do it as your full time income then better focus on your Job and Get at it and Don't waste your Only Precisios free time to play with cryptocurrency or either Get at cryptocurrency and make it as your full time Job!!

Bitcoin is not only for trading, so you can't force people to doing trading if they want to start buy Bitcoin. I'd say most of people who buy Bitcoin is to HODL rather than trading. Trading is very risky and not all people can do it, while Holding is quite easy.

yes btc is for dark market dealings sure i forget about it lol:D

I tend to agree, I read this in the article that there are too many Bitcoin addresses that have owned Bitcoin but this isn't active in having transactions. This means they prefer of holding than trading or spending it like purchasing an item online.

Remember that not all traders have this skills on making a profit with high leverage trading, we can't directly point out that leverage trading is a scam but we know this is very risky thing, sound like you've gambled with the high odds that the chances of winning are very slim. Aggressive traders might anticipate this kind of trading, but for me, it's sound greed. But I won't agree that leverage trading is a scam.

Maybe you just don’t know how to trade, the seventy percent you’re talking about that lost their money are also people like you that don’t know how to trade. Let’s face the truth, most of the traders that are always complaining that they are losing are the ones that doesn’t know how to trade, they trade and lose and they start calling it scam when the real truth is that they don’t know how to trade.

Can you do technical analysis and do you have a good strategy that you’re using to trade? And if that’s not the case and you think you’re really good but the system is trash and scam, then leave and go for something else. But I’m telling you from experience, everyone that I have seen say that these trading are scam usually don’t even have a plan.

I agree its totally scam and only big players stole btc from little holder. Exchanges are playing good role in this leverage trading. They can't think about customer safety. They only think about their money. Keep away from this leverage trade.

Only traders with large capital can profit from leverage trading, it looks like scams when we use leverage trading. Because our risk of
losing all the capital we have is quite large, I even used leverage trading to lose up to $ 1000. I think leverage trading is just the way
exchanges take our coins in a short amount of time. But it is also possible that leverage trading is not a scams, because some traders
have managed to make a lot of money from leverage trading. What is certain is that it is safer to trade manually, it is safer to do.

No, I don't think it is not a scam.
What happens is people who don't have big money and don't have enough skills to trade in the next level of the trading force themselves to use leverage trading to trade.
They heard that if they use leverage trading, they will make a bigger profit than the usual trading.
But they don't think that before they use the leverage trading, they need to improve their skills to analyze better because, in the leverage trading, it will be more complicated than the usual trading.
That is happening for many people, they have a will to make a bigger profit, but they don't realize if they can trade better or not.
If people can know better about trading, and they can make a profit from the usual trading, they can try to use the leverage trading but don't use big funds early before they familiar with the situations.

There will always be a conspiracy in everything but I don't think your point is make sense.

You can ask all trader here, how many of them who has got consistent profit by trading?  And how many of them who just got lose although they have learned many trading strategy.

Because in my experience (I'm new to trade actually) has been getting a concistent profit per week although it still small due to I spend a litlle capital to start. It means, no matter who you are if you have good analyst you'll get profit and at least you will have a strategy to mininize your risk.

It isn't easy to talk about consistent profit in trading because that will depend on the market move. If we are in a downtrend like today, the chance to make a profit will not be easy since we need to analyzing more to find the coin. But if we are in the uptrend, that will not be easy to pick the coin because the coin that seems profitable can trick us and make us wait for more. So what we need to have a profit is learning more about trading. But we don't have to force ourselves to try leverage trading if we don't have enough skills to analyze.

The part of it is true but not the whole thing I guess. One can make the money from trading if they are patient enough. FYI: If you trade the low volume coins which are anyway dead, left behind by the roadmaps, their project developers sucks then these type of coins will always be targeted for the purpose of pump and dump.

But genuine currencies like ETH & BTC will never be manipulated like this. They will need heck lot of money to do that. So called whales or signal dumping groups will never risk their money on that level.

So trading does works, and it works on good category of coins.

Talking about pump and dump, recently I discovered a telegram channel with around 1 million subscribers and when the guy posts it receives 800+k views. They always keep posting how good their signals are in the paid channel. And the subscription for the paid channel is like 1 BTC for a year or lifetime. I followed some of their posts and found indeed the coins pumps and dumps when they call but what I see here is they are making more money from the channel subscriptions than those trades. Even I doubt if they trade with the calls they make. Very low volume coins and if you go with 1 BTC buy then you are going to see a big green dildo in the chart.

If that's the case then it might really worked since people wouldn't just follow if they wont really benefit it out and imagine that 1BTC for annual basis on sub fees is ridiculous.

Only fools would pay 0.08 BTC = $800/ month for such subscription but well its their own money then they do have the full decision on how they'll gonna use it but to know

that not all would really have that kind of money in our stashes.If there are places like that one then its their choice but they do know its really a gamble to follow up someones call.

To @OP and everyone else who is also thinking the crypto futures market is a scam. Truth be told, Its not a scam. It's always true that the market if manipulated sometimes (if not all the time). Futures trading is quite similar to margin trade but comes with much higher risks since you're dealing with much higher leverages (10x, 15x, 20x, 50x etc). So if you make any trade setup, it has to be right else you will incur losses. There's no two ways about it.

Here's a couple of tips to help:
1. Use a low leverage till you get more consistent with your trading setups and system. You can gradually increase your leverage level
2. Practice risk management as much as possible. Don't forget to DCA (Dollar cost average).
3. Get your emotions in check ~ Trading futures is a different ball game. You need to be in the right frame of mind to win those trades.

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Above all, continue learning and improving your trading skills. With time, everything will fall into place. Don't forget to be patient with yourself even while on a losing steak.

The issue with leverage exchanges like futures is that they allow up to 100x and it's very easy to get caught in a liquidation spike. Generally you should look at the funding rates and if the rates are against you then you need to stay alert.

What I mean is when there is a large positive funding then that means many are long. When negative many are short. Usually this happens when there is a large strong trend and it keeps trending and late people join the market using high leverage and ends up raising the funding rate. Then what happens is there is a cascade of liquidatons when all these wrong trades rush for the door with small liquidity. Remember what happened back in March on Bitmex? This is why futures trading is very risky compared to buying on spot or regular margin.

There is of risk involved in leverage trading but within the case of cryptocurrency btc futures leverage trading we should always not take extra leverage if a trader has low capital and high leverage is important then risk management should be used appropriately in trading. this may keep our account secure leverage or margin loan is that the maximum number of loans your forex broker will offer you on top of your capital suppose your balance or capital is 100 if you employ 1: 200 leverage your broker will lend you up to a maximum of 200 times once you trade now it's up to you ways much you borrow. So with 10 dollars you'll trade 10x200 = 2000 dollars.

I do think there's a mismanagement in your trading activity.
 
 -Unsure use of technical and fundamental analysis
 -Always depends on trading bot
 -Not setting stop loss
 
 When future leverage trading doesn't works well for you, it doesn't mean it is a scam because others are gaining and winning some profits from it, too.
 Why don't you reflect on which mistakes are you going to change, what is the lacking tools you should need to integrate, etc.

The OP seems to have some problem understanding basic risk management and other things related to sane thinking. Considering the -4 trust rating and the currently active flag I can very well understand why the OP is making a thread like this and reviving his own propaganda.

Any type of risk vs reward system has a risk and in leverage the risk is that the market might move in the opposite side and you might lost money to prevent liquidation of your positions. In Spot trading a similar thing happens. In gambling the House edge is there.

In short, you cannot survive without risk. The only day job you might be doing also carries some risk. Now if you feel that you are being scammed because you lost your money fair and square then your way of thinking is twisted and malicious. Blame yourself instead of the place you lost money.

The cryptocurrency market is a high risk market. Only this makes trading cryptocurrencies very difficult, and leverage magnifies it.
The prices used by the exchanges are officially listed on the market. We can easily check cryptocurrency prices on Coinmarketcap or Coigecko, and prices of oil, gold or fiat currencies everywhere on the Internet.
There will always be those who win and those who lose on the market.
The better traders always win, and the OP is probably not one of them.

You can not say that btc future trading is scam but it is very dangerous when anybody has leveraging  50 to 100x. Some big traders always gives markets a big up and down. If the price of btc goes in your predictions way then it is all right but if goes opposite then there will be a certain liquidation. Best strategy is to give minimum leverage and predict market properly. So my review is that btc future trading is not scam.

Of course the leverage is not a scam. If someone uses it responsibly and knows how to do it, even the 500x leverage is not dangerous. The main thing is not to act with bad emotions, but to think carefully about movements.

I think it is not a "scam" but it is also hurting bitcoin as well and has always hurt it as well. Think about it, if there were no short options nobody would have made any money when bitcoin goes down which would mean that people wouldn't want bitcoin to fall ever. That 20k happened because short futures weren't a thing just yet, or maybe newly started, after that people made huge amount of profit by selling their coin but 100x leveraging their crypto at the same time.

It allowed whales to manipulate the market to go down and make profit. This is why I hate futures and hope they are stopped because if they continue to exists there will always be a reason why bitcoin could drop in price and it helps people, price drop shouldn't help anyone at all and we should always want it to go up all the time.

Actually a good trade depends on more experience. Most people often lose money in the beginning of trading but they need to realize their mistakes and correct them. I have a brother who lost more than $ 2 million on margin trading in the first 3 years, but then he didn't give up and tried to create the best trading strategy. As a result, he now regains his money he lost and is now profitable.
My advice is to keep learning and stick to your decisions. The results will come soon to those who always try hard.

People who say that leverage trading is a scam, chances are that that person does not understand and has no knowledge of leverage trading.
Because for people who have large capital and have the knowledge and ability to use leverage trading, certainly can make a large profit from
trading leverage. If you are a newbie, you should avoid using leverage trading, because the risk is quite large. If we are not careful, we can
lose all the capital we have.

Leverage trading is not a scam but leverage trading in crypto is a bit fishy because crypto market can be easily manipulated and all exchange that offering is not a regulated exchange even binance or bitmex. The example of OP is a bit dumb because it's clearly that he didn't understand well how to leverage trading and maybe he is using a high leverage.

There's a possibility that exchange or a group whales manipulating the price because there is no regulators looking on crypto trading activity on exchange. Imagine bitcoin sometimes  pump instantly 5% within an hour then back again to the original price on a few minutes after the pump. There is no way this is a regular trading. IMHO