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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Upgrade00 on September 20, 2020, 11:53:45 AM



Title: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Upgrade00 on September 20, 2020, 11:53:45 AM
We are about nine months into the coronavirus outbreak and six months in from when it was declared a pandemic by the World Health Organization. At this point the economic effect of the virus has spread all over with top global economies like; United States, United kingdom, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, and Japan in recession, experiencing sharp economic contractions in the last quarter ranging from 20.4% (U.K) to 7.8% (Japan). Developing economies in Asia and Africa have also been hit hard.

Economic recovery is the next phase after a recession, it can range for a period of months to several years, ideally followed by economic expansion, in some cases, a country can slip back into recession.
While the drop in economies may have been global, the rate of recovery would certainly be different for various countries depending on their preemptive response to the situation.
Some economies are yet to begin the recovery process with nations setting stricter lockdown rules due to second waves, but with advancement in medicine, measures to counter a second wave would likely be more productive. If more people would keep to guidelines.

Recovery is represented using a variety of alphabets;
https://i.imgur.com/HaXTOt6.png
Source (https://www.jll.be/en/trends-and-insights/research/covid-19-global-real-estate-implications)

U-shaped curve: this is the most realistic recovery pattern most countries would take. According to a poll conducted by reuters (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-economy-poll/global-economic-contraction-to-be-steepest-on-record-recovery-u-shaped-reuters-poll-idUSKCN22600U);
Quote
More than 55% or 87 of 155 economists said the global economic recovery would be U-shaped. Thirty-one analysts said it would be V-shaped and 24 said it be more like a check mark. A few respondents expected a W- or L- shape.
In this pattern, the economy would suffer a sharp decline in key indicators, followed by a period of stagnation which would lead up to an expansion. This is similar to what I have noticed in China, after the drop in the first quarter, they are leading the recovery and have started to slowly return to normal, although actually economic metrics are difficult to identify.

V-shaped curve; this is the second highest pattern from the polll above and is a very optimistic prediction, as it expects the economy to immediately rebound after a drop without any period of stagnation. I think this may be possible depending on the policies (fiscal and health) which were implemented during the decline. Flattening of the pandemic curve, would lead to reopening of businesses and increase in employment, this would stimulate the economy by creating an enabling environment. In an ideal economy, I think this might be possible, however some financial policies such as; massive money printing or zero or negative interest rate could have a recurring effect on the economy, resulting in a possible W-shaped curve. A second or third wave of the virus can also lead to economic crashes.

W-shaped curve: this is represented by a sharp rebound followed by similar sharp drop in the recovery curve. The first spike upwards could be said to be a false indicator resulting from cut-and-cover policies meant to stimulate the economy without having any lasting effect. This is followed by an organic growth pattern, or could be repeated over again, if effective measures are not used.

L-shaped curve: In this case, there is a long period of stagnation following the decline. This would lead to a long period of recovery before an economy enters into an expansion phase.

There's also a K-shaped curve: this is the most dynamic recovery curve which is characterised by varying patterns in various economic sectors and could be a result of discriminatory policies. A k-shaped recovery would split the recovery curve into two, one sector slips into stagnation or continues to decline, while the other begins the recovery process or rebounds back up.

What pattern of recovery are you expecting in your country?


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: abhiseshakana on September 20, 2020, 09:31:26 PM
The possible form of recovery graph is L-shape because the economic impact of the pandemic is largely determined by the effectiveness of handling the spread and transmission of Covid-19 itself, in this case the health capacity will determine the success of the pandemic containment. The fact is that pandemic management will be more effective if large-scale lockdowns or social restrictions are imposed, but the effects of reimposing harsh virus restrictions can hinder recovery and even trigger financial turmoil. In addition, the government has not been maximal in protecting people affected by the pandemic on the grounds of a budget deficit, even though social assistance and protection are the second priority that must run effectively to continue to support people's purchasing power, with the aim that the economy does not suffer too much.

Due to pessimism about vaccines and fear of recession and depression, many countries whose economies are not opened at the right time, are too hasty and aggressive. Economic activities should be opened after various health indicators show that the spread of this virus has been effectively controlled. This policy made the handling of the pandemic prolonged which meant that the economy was getting worse and it was very difficult to pump up again. The declining inflation rate in several developing and poor countries is evidence of weakening people's purchasing power. Economic growth that falls drastically and lasts a long time so that the economy does not recover for a significant period of time.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Upgrade00 on September 21, 2020, 03:54:49 AM
The possible form of recovery graph is L-shape because the economic impact of the pandemic is largely determined by the effectiveness of handling the spread and transmission of Covid-19 itself, in this case the health capacity will determine the success of the pandemic containment.
So would countries who were more proactive in handling the situation experience a quicker rebound (like a V or U shaped curve) or would they be slowed down by lockdown in other areas as economics are more synchronized today?
New Zealand were one of the nation who handled the pandemic well and its finance minister expects strong economic rebound from technical recession (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/18/new-zealands-finance-minister-expects-strong-rebound-after-technical-recession.html)

I think the post that needs more illustrations will be very lively and better
Agree. I edited the OP a bit, I believe it originally contained too much information which were not relevant to the topic being discussed.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: abhiseshakana on September 21, 2020, 07:47:58 AM
So would countries who were more proactive in handling the situation experience a quicker rebound (like a V or U shaped curve) or would they be slowed down by lockdown in other areas as economics are more synchronized today?
New Zealand were one of the nation who handled the pandemic well and its finance minister expects strong economic rebound from technical recession (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/18/new-zealands-finance-minister-expects-strong-rebound-after-technical-recession.html)

The Covid-19 pandemic has not only brought damage to the national economy and social life but has also caused extreme pressure on the international community, the health care system, and the global economy. Like a race, the sooner a country finishes the race and stem the pandemic, the sooner a country can enter a pit stop, the faster it can prepare a post-pandemic strategy. The sooner you enter the pitstop, the less economic damage will be incurred, which means less costs and leverage are needed to boost the economy.

The existence of a total lockdown that should have been carried out at the beginning of the pandemic was indeed costly but the pandemic did not drag on like what happened in China. So national stability can be maintained and people's purchasing power can be restored quickly and the paralysis of the production sector does not reach above 50%. Imagine if all countries take the same policy, the global supply chain will soon be connected again and the destruction of the global economy can be avoided. So the V-shaped form of economic recovery can be obtained.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Mauser on September 21, 2020, 08:33:17 AM

The Covid-19 pandemic has not only brought damage to the national economy and social life but has also caused extreme pressure on the international community, the health care system, and the global economy. Like a race, the sooner a country finishes the race and stem the pandemic, the sooner a country can enter a pit stop, the faster it can prepare a post-pandemic strategy. The sooner you enter the pitstop, the less economic damage will be incurred, which means less costs and leverage are needed to boost the economy.

The existence of a total lockdown that should have been carried out at the beginning of the pandemic was indeed costly but the pandemic did not drag on like what happened in China. So national stability can be maintained and people's purchasing power can be restored quickly and the paralysis of the production sector does not reach above 50%. Imagine if all countries take the same policy, the global supply chain will soon be connected again and the destruction of the global economy can be avoided. So the V-shaped form of economic recovery can be obtained.


The economy took a big hit this year, where almost all countries in the world having negative GDP growth rates. But the stimulus packages came very fast all around the world we saw governments injecting billions of USD into their economies. So while the real economy is trailing, the stock market is doing fine. Dow Jones for example is still positive over 1 year, Euro Stoxx is only slightly down.

I think the recovery in the real economy is depending on the future lock downs, if there is a second one coming or not. As for the stock market I don't see such a big risk because the government will just keep throwing more money into the fire.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: sabbir2world on September 21, 2020, 12:41:15 PM
I just hope it doesn't hit that bad again! This time the economy might sink to the lowest. Inflation is not a problem anymore. I mean the governments all around the world printed shit load already lol. Let's hope for the best!


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Upgrade00 on September 21, 2020, 01:59:37 PM
Imagine if all countries take the same policy, the global supply chain will soon be connected again and the destruction of the global economy can be avoided. So the V-shaped form of economic recovery can be obtained.
I agree. For such a synchronized V-shaped recovery to take place, nations would need to reopen their economy simultaneously (or within close time frames), inorder to reconnect the supply chain. The United States and China are trade partners and are the highest importers of products from each other. So, if China opens up (as is happening) while the U.S remains closed, there would be slow growth rate as they are working without a major market for their product and would also lack imports.

So while the real economy is trailing, the stock market is doing fine. Dow Jones for example is still positive over 1 year, Euro Stoxx is only slightly down.
This could be a representation of the K-shaped recovery curve; where one sector rebounds due to stimulus or government grants, while another is neglected and continues to slide down or remains stagnant.

I just hope it doesn't hit that bad again!
Keeping to health guidelines would reduce the impact of a second or third wave. Fear index of the pandemic has reduced over the months and people now defy lockdown laws (at least in my area), this increases the possibility of another wave.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: teosanru on September 21, 2020, 02:25:30 PM
I think U shaped delivery would be prominent in developed countries like US and Europe. For India many analysts have predicted a K style recovery graph which isn't really a great thing. And this thing can be easily seen from our markets. While the Market carries it's sentiments along with it yet it's evident that a -20% GDP shrink hasn't been much evident on the Indian stock markets. Moreover many companies have increased their market cap in this Covid times while on the other hand a normal small scale business has been badly hurt. Until Vaccine I doubt that this situation would rectify.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: jademaxsuy on September 21, 2020, 02:37:12 PM
What impact could it be to the patterns when it comes to trading? I do wanted to know too if traders are following also in this trend for their decision making when doing some trades. i know how hard to do trade but others had step up by using bots and somehow manage to get returns as well (good for them). If this is one of their tool.  in trading then glad to know about this tool. I am a little bit trading myseld too but done it manually and not like as a day trader instead short term trading is the only way I can manage but still made some failed attempts.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: BrewMaster on September 21, 2020, 03:25:00 PM
very interesting information here that i didn't know about.
but i think it is too soon to start discussing the recovery patterns at this point because the crash part is not yet over and with the way this nasty virus has been spreading lately and the fear that it has started mutating i'm afraid the real effects of the economical crash are yet to come.

and i think the recovery in some cases could depend on the type of the crash itself. a gigantic crash might have a W shape recovery while a small one be followed by a U shape recovery.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: wxa7115 on September 21, 2020, 04:55:32 PM
very interesting information here that i didn't know about.
but i think it is too soon to start discussing the recovery patterns at this point because the crash part is not yet over and with the way this nasty virus has been spreading lately and the fear that it has started mutating i'm afraid the real effects of the economical crash are yet to come.

and i think the recovery in some cases could depend on the type of the crash itself. a gigantic crash might have a W shape recovery while a small one be followed by a U shape recovery.
I agree, if a recovery is coming then the pattern that I believe will manifest itself will be the ‘L’ one, this is because the pandemic is not over and people are afraid not only of the pandemic but of the economic crisis, there cannot be a recovery when people are distrustful and they are keeping their money under their mattresses in case things gets worse, this means that even if business are open now the economic activity is low.

However there is no telling if a recovery is what follows next, after all a recession can also become a depression and this is an scenario that is not outside of the real of possibility especially with the economy being as weak as it is now.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: NotATether on September 21, 2020, 04:59:49 PM
Technically, different parts of countries recover at different speeds e.g. cities, providences and states, which implies a K-shape graph. But to keep things simple I'll mention that most countries are right now are experiencing W-shape recoveries. The pandemic isn't over yet, so any attempt to reboot their economies will have limited success and will fall back to square one if/when people get infected by contact again. After the pandemic is a different story, because it's still too early to forcast when it will end.

Think of it this way. Lots of jobs have been lost during this pandemic, perhaps more than in 2008. If you recover the job levels to normal, you pretty much successfully rebooted the economy. But the difference between this crisis and the one in 2008 is that the 2008 crisis was entirely the fault of bad risk management by house mortgagers, given that they already took a massive debt from homeowners who would eventually default, the risk management was supposed to cover their hides in such an event. But they didn't use risk management and bought (on a loan) at high leverage at their trading markets, lost their trades, and their reserves diasappeared. At this point the banks are insolvent but the outstanding home mortgages gave off the false impression of stability so nobody peeked behind the curtain. The ugly things started happening when these people defaulted on their mortgages.


It seems as though some bankers think that debt and loans can be used as a form of hard money, although their value is not guarenteed. I'm not going to derail your topic writing about the ramifications of this thinking but suffice it to say, it's a deadly idea.


Anyway, it also happened that people in position of power at the Federal Reserve (Greenspan in particular) did nothing to force banks to use better risk management, so negligence on their part caused a crisis that could've been avoided.

As for this year's crisis, it is nobody's fault that lead to this economic slump. No central banks were being careless, at least not to a magnitude that would've lead to a disaster like this, and banks and institutions around the world weren't trading as recklessly as 2008 levels. This is a recession that could not have been avoided even with the strictest policies, and ironically which some people predicted to happen for the US by Q3 2020, before Covid-19 appeared in China.

It took 6 years for job levels to reach their original amount after 2008, and that's without having to worry about health procedures. Here, we can't even start the procedure of making more jobs until everyone is vaccinated or develops immunity to covid. And there is a large gargantuan percentage more jobs to recover this time around, and for all countries not just the US.

Assume a vaccine is made after 1 year. Then everyone is treated after another year. With the larger amount of jobs lost, multiply the 6-year recovery figure by 2. My senses say it could be 14 years before every single county makes back their job levels, though their economies will take a much shorter time to bring their foriegn trade levels back to normal, say 3-5 years from now.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: el kaka22 on September 21, 2020, 06:50:06 PM
Unfortunately bitcoin has always been a W shape one and that always hurt a lot of regular traders, obviously the long term investors do not get that much interested in it because they do not really have anything different in the end, but the regular traders do get affected by it.

For example if you bought at 10k, and you are a long term investor, doesn't matter if it drops to 5k and goes back to 10k because you are already long term and you are back to where you started but if the same happens for a trader there are tons of ways along the way where you can lose money as well (but ways to make profit too). So at the end I believe it is quite important that we should be aware of what we should do when it comes down to W shaped or any shaped, if we are long term we should be fine.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Yatsan on September 21, 2020, 08:22:14 PM
Seeing such graphical representation of economic recovery after recession brought by the pandemic makes me see and realized that among those graphs, W shape curve would seems to be problematic to be stated as a flow of recovery for the flaws that can be seen after an upline stroke there goes downline which shows that the recovery does not take place on a stabilized manner compared to other flow curve striking upwards to flat line stroke. Those are for observable analysis done by a glance to gain a simple interpretation on how certain recovery takes place.


Technically, different parts of countries recover at different speeds e.g. cities, providences and states, which implies a K-shape graph. But to keep things simple I'll mention that most countries are right now are experiencing W-shape recoveries. The pandemic isn't over yet, so any attempt to reboot their economies will have limited success and will fall back to square one if/when people get infected by contact again. After the pandemic is a different story, because it's still too early to forcast when it will end.


This is certainly true and agreeable for me. The strike points that a W shape curve will be a prominent representation on how economic statuses of different countries can be shown amid this pandemic for there are still lots of negative effects that this pandemic is continuously giving out which makes the recovery unstable striking up and down. The pattern recovery might be taken to shape curves V, U and L once the pandemic is already done once the vaccine to end this pandemic has been successfully discovered.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Upgrade00 on September 22, 2020, 04:16:05 AM
Assume a vaccine is made after 1 year. Then everyone is treated after another year. With the larger amount of jobs lost, multiply the 6-year recovery figure by 2.
This is probable, as the lockdown has lasted a long time, meaning some temporary job losses would have become permanent, due to business shutting down totally and going bankrupt. I would however still expect a much quicker recovery, particularly for larger economies; A reopening would mean lots of new opportunities for start-ups in various fields (I would assume loans would be made easily accessible), new businesses would be set up to replace the ones lost, creating employment.

During the brief reopening at the mid way point of the year, there was a huge rise in employment within the span of a month, with the United States adding about 4.8 million jobs in June, although the numbers started to drop in July (1.76 million) as the health effects of the immature easing of lockdown began to manifest.

though their economies will take a much shorter time to bring their foriegn trade levels back to normal, say 3-5 years from now.
Is there a slight possibility that countries would begin to look inwards for resources they need?
A nation which is self-sufficient would be less hit by the effect of a global lockdown should there be another similar pandemic in the future, in preparations for this, governments could make strides to become as self-sufficient as possible using the resources they have. Although If possible, this would only work to an extent, as exports and imports are both integral to an economy.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: abhiseshakana on September 22, 2020, 09:35:30 AM
Is there a slight possibility that countries would begin to look inwards for resources they need?
A nation which is self-sufficient would be less hit by the effect of a global lockdown should there be another similar pandemic in the future, in preparations for this, governments could make strides to become as self-sufficient as possible using the resources they have. Although If possible, this would only work to an extent, as exports and imports are both integral to an economy.

The pandemic teaches that globalization and interconnection have made the virus spread unstoppable to almost all corners of the world. This phenomenon raises the awareness that national independence and resilience is the key to overcoming a pandemic that may be worse in the future. Each country will try to create its own supply chain system, instead of leveraging it on the American global supply chain. China, Vietnam, Taiwan already felt the bird flu pandemic in 2003, so when they faced the Covid-19 pandemic they were much better prepared.

The Government considered this matter because it created momentum for a reorganization of individual countries on the grounds of national security. A nation is said to be truly sovereign when it is less affected by the maneuvers of other countries. To achieve this sovereignty, a country must have national resilience, be it technological, military, economic, social, food and health. Each country will increase people's purchasing power along with the opening of independent industries. Strong domestic consumption can be a buffer for the national economy, an increase in purchasing power followed by an increase in production will accelerate the economic growth of a country.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Jet Cash on September 22, 2020, 09:47:38 AM
It isn't a pandemic, it is more of a casedemic. All the reports are of increased infections, and these seem to be overstated by a massive amount. The real death and ICU admissions are kept pretty quiet, but can be surmised when one considers the numbers of empty hospitals. Fairly obviously the panicdemic (sic) is designed to manage an economic reset, and a massive transfer of wealth. This leads one to believe that the only letter that describes the recovery is "K". Once you accept this, and adjust your life accordingly, then you can get yourself into the upper part of the letter, and stop your slide into the food bank economy.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Wind_FURY on September 22, 2020, 11:05:47 AM
I believe that could be applied to price-charts? Bitcoin OGs, and the Bitcoiners who went through the experience of bull markets and market crashes/bear markets since before 2014, which curve-shape is the most recurrent?


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: lixer on September 22, 2020, 01:17:02 PM
The truth is that I don’t know what will happen next, but I am always positive for my country and maybe the U-shaped curve I guess; I believe that as time goes on things will start getting better and the economy will start riding again.

Although that will also be depending on so many factors which I wouldn’t be able to mention all of them, but the actions the government is taking in making sure that things gets better in this kind of situation we are in is one other thing that will help the economy to start going the positive direction.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Harlot on September 22, 2020, 01:57:24 PM
Predicting something now is hard to expect on especially if we really don't know how the government will react after a vaccine is created. For sure they would re-organize their budget allocation as well as think about where they would focus on and if they have enough money in that area. They would also think about borrowing money which for sure a lot of countries will do, aside from the government we can expect that some companies would still be affected in this recovery and I don't think most small and medium enterprise would be thinking about expansion so it's really hard to predict the exact thing on how our economy will be recovering.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Wind_FURY on September 23, 2020, 04:38:06 AM

Predicting something now is hard to expect on especially if we really don't know how the government will react after a vaccine is created. For sure they would re-organize their budget allocation as well as think about where they would focus on and if they have enough money in that area.


I believe the state they would, INCREASE taxes, THEN re-organize the national budget, with some bad-actors planning how to get some of the money, WHILE getting all of the credit for "saving the economy". 8)



Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: justdimin on September 23, 2020, 05:32:26 AM
There are places that do show wrong numbers as well on the pandemic death. I saw a paper with proof online that some person put his grandpa into ICU because his grandpa had corona and he waited for 3 days for him to recover, on third day morning his grandpas results came back negative and he no longer had corona which made him happy but then they told him his grandpa passed away and on official paper it looks like he died from pneumonia so they basically faked his death as something other than corona.

If the dude didn't proved this with papers and results and dates I wouldn't believe him but it really happened. So, that means pandemic is not going away, it is still here and that means recovery may not be as quick as people imagined it would be, we could still be going down once again.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Kong Hey Pakboy on September 23, 2020, 07:21:51 AM
There are places that do show wrong numbers as well on the pandemic death. I saw a paper with proof online that some person put his grandpa into ICU because his grandpa had corona and he waited for 3 days for him to recover, on third day morning his grandpas results came back negative and he no longer had corona which made him happy but then they told him his grandpa passed away and on official paper it looks like he died from pneumonia so they basically faked his death as something other than corona.

If the dude didn't proved this with papers and results and dates I wouldn't believe him but it really happened. So, that means pandemic is not going away, it is still here and that means recovery may not be as quick as people imagined it would be, we could still be going down once again.
I believe that the COVID-19 or the coronavirus patients are not that easy to cure or to recover because I also know one of our family friend's father just recently past away due to COVID-19. But his father was recovered and got home from the hospital, though his father still passed away after a week from the virus. So it might be true that it is not that easy to remove this virus and our economy until there is no 100% vaccine.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Dorodha on September 23, 2020, 10:51:37 AM
It is very difficult to find possible patterns of recovery it is not possible to cure completely until I agree with the vaccine. Coronavirus is recurring in patients many times when the virus is positive when there is no virus many people are getting frustrated. Only vaccines can cure it no one understands the pattern of the epidemic many countries in the world are trying but no one has succeeded.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: ultrloa on September 23, 2020, 11:48:28 AM
There are places that do show wrong numbers as well on the pandemic death. I saw a paper with proof online that some person put his grandpa into ICU because his grandpa had corona and he waited for 3 days for him to recover, on third day morning his grandpas results came back negative and he no longer had corona which made him happy but then they told him his grandpa passed away and on official paper it looks like he died from pneumonia so they basically faked his death as something other than corona.

If the dude didn't proved this with papers and results and dates I wouldn't believe him but it really happened. So, that means pandemic is not going away, it is still here and that means recovery may not be as quick as people imagined it would be, we could still be going down once again.
I believe that the COVID-19 or the coronavirus patients are not that easy to cure or to recover because I also know one of our family friend's father just recently past away due to COVID-19. But his father was recovered and got home from the hospital, though his father still passed away after a week from the virus. So it might be true that it is not that easy to remove this virus and our economy until there is no 100% vaccine.

Maybe the father of your friend have an existing illness and the virus made it worse that's why he became a casualty of this disease. Many country tried and few of them became successful but for countries who are in 3rd world category struggling so much much on this incidents, But I really think we are close to have a vaccine and everything will back to normal and economy will be revive once the research companies will mass produce and released their successful product.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: semobo on September 23, 2020, 01:53:31 PM
We are not safe yet from the virus, some countries already facing the second wave at unstoppable rate and in near future lot of countries will go into complete lockdown for the second time which means there will be another crash in the economic system so I guess we will have W shaped recovery.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: ethereumhunter on September 23, 2020, 02:57:09 PM
There are places that do show wrong numbers as well on the pandemic death. I saw a paper with proof online that some person put his grandpa into ICU because his grandpa had corona and he waited for 3 days for him to recover, on third day morning his grandpas results came back negative and he no longer had corona which made him happy but then they told him his grandpa passed away and on official paper it looks like he died from pneumonia so they basically faked his death as something other than corona.

If the dude didn't proved this with papers and results and dates I wouldn't believe him but it really happened. So, that means pandemic is not going away, it is still here and that means recovery may not be as quick as people imagined it would be, we could still be going down once again.
I believe that the COVID-19 or the coronavirus patients are not that easy to cure or to recover because I also know one of our family friend's father just recently past away due to COVID-19. But his father was recovered and got home from the hospital, though his father still passed away after a week from the virus. So it might be true that it is not that easy to remove this virus and our economy until there is no 100% vaccine.

Maybe the father of your friend have an existing illness and the virus made it worse that's why he became a casualty of this disease. Many country tried and few of them became successful but for countries who are in 3rd world category struggling so much much on this incidents, But I really think we are close to have a vaccine and everything will back to normal and economy will be revive once the research companies will mass produce and released their successful product.

I heard it is difficult to survive from the virus if we are infected, but that will depend on how good the hospital to handle the patient. If the hospital has enough doctors and nurses and a good infrastructure to handle the patient, it will be no problem for them to help them. We can hope that people who infect the virus can survive in hard situations while the vaccine still on the way to be produced.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: fiulpro on September 23, 2020, 04:30:25 PM
Hard truth is , most of the countries were already in a crisis way before the pandemic begin, the underdeveloped and the developing countries now due to this pandemic I do believe we will have a terrible condition there.

Other than that it will depend how well the country faces this situation, for most countries despite them having all the resources , the people are not very well following the rules and regulations. Therefore they have a continuous w shaped curve , which won't improve until and unless the government+people do something about it.

But am more concerned about the developing and the underdeveloped countries.

They might never show an upward growth for a considerable amount of time.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: abhiseshakana on September 24, 2020, 05:24:34 AM
Hard truth is , most of the countries were already in a crisis way before the pandemic begin, the underdeveloped and the developing countries now due to this pandemic I do believe we will have a terrible condition there.

Other than that it will depend how well the country faces this situation, for most countries despite them having all the resources , the people are not very well following the rules and regulations. Therefore they have a continuous w shaped curve , which won't improve until and unless the government+people do something about it.

But am more concerned about the developing and the underdeveloped countries.

They might never show an upward growth for a considerable amount of time.

Before the pandemic, many countries had experienced an economic downturn due to the trade war between America and China, there were even several countries that had entered a recession path. So when a pandemic storm hit it caused even more severe conditions. What the government can do now is to inform the public about the real conditions and not to give empty hopes so that individual citizens will take wise steps.

Actually, many people still have money but they are afraid to invest, they are afraid to expand and choose to keep silent about their respective safety, besides that the vaccines that are just waiting for distribution permits from WHO also get many questions about the effectiveness which is periodic and the potential for vaccines will actually making the virus even wilder.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Shasha80 on September 24, 2020, 06:03:37 AM
Thank you for sharing very important information, it turns out that there are many possible patterns of recovery that can occur.
All I know so far is only U-shaped and V-shaped curved, the rest I just heard about them. It is possible that my country is very
compatible with U-shaped patterns, because indeed most countries use U-shaped patterns. Recovery is very difficult, however,
as long as a vaccine has not been found. Therefore, nowadays it is better for every country to focus on finding a vaccine.
So that the spread of the corona virus can really be stopped and the economy can recover immediately.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: AniviaBtc on September 24, 2020, 07:02:08 AM
I just hope it doesn't hit that bad again! This time the economy might sink to the lowest. Inflation is not a problem anymore. I mean the governments all around the world printed shit load already lol. Let's hope for the best!

Most of us are really dreaming about the V-shaped recovery because we want a faster economic recovery as soon as possible but in reality, it is really hard to achieve that due to some factors that can make it hard to do. The U-shaped recovery is the only thing that we can do right now, not that immediate enough but it can show us some improvements from time to time. We just need to be patient and wait for the government's action towards this economic crisis, if some other countries can do it like New Zealand and Vietnam, we also probably can do it.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: bitgolden on September 24, 2020, 03:09:00 PM
I guess if the virus is not fixed at all the recovery will not happen but at the same time if we can't recover in economy we can't fix the pandemic neither.

I know that people are not certain about how economy is related to virus but it is not related to virus directly, it is related to health and if you do not have any money you will not be healthy neither, look at USA for example they are a nation that has one of the worst healthcares in the world and they still bankrupt and they die, there are people who die there because they couldn't get a simple insulin medicine which is basically free everywhere else, so that means if your economy sucks like them, you will die.

When people die and economy is in shambles you end up with more people dying from virus as well because they are not careful and just try to focus on surviving and working for it.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Maroons on September 25, 2020, 04:40:15 AM
I just hope it doesn't hit that bad again! This time the economy might sink to the lowest. Inflation is not a problem anymore. I mean the governments all around the world printed shit load already lol. Let's hope for the best!

Most of us are really dreaming about the V-shaped recovery because we want a faster economic recovery as soon as possible but in reality, it is really hard to achieve that due to some factors that can make it hard to do. The U-shaped recovery is the only thing that we can do right now, not that immediate enough but it can show us some improvements from time to time. We just need to be patient and wait for the government's action towards this economic crisis, if some other countries can do it like New Zealand and Vietnam, we also probably can do it.
I think the L-shaped is much more realistic recovery in general because U-shape compared to L-shape it is more faster recovery but let's be honest even 1st world countries are having hard time handling the virus and to add why L-shape is the more possible outcome of recovery is because we can't know if all citizens will follow what the government directs us to do, so it is a process of making people follow the rules given by the government to lessen the transmission and achieve the fastest recovery as possible, the countries that already won against the virus have organized and well disciplined citizens that is why they already won and achieve the U shape or even the V shape recovery so to sum it up we need a organized government and organized citizen to achieve it, it is all about doing their parts, it is the key to defeating the virus.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: leea-1334 on September 25, 2020, 06:56:17 AM
There are places that do show wrong numbers as well on the pandemic death. I saw a paper with proof online that some person put his grandpa into ICU because his grandpa had corona and he waited for 3 days for him to recover, on third day morning his grandpas results came back negative and he no longer had corona which made him happy but then they told him his grandpa passed away and on official paper it looks like he died from pneumonia so they basically faked his death as something other than corona.

If the dude didn't proved this with papers and results and dates I wouldn't believe him but it really happened. So, that means pandemic is not going away, it is still here and that means recovery may not be as quick as people imagined it would be, we could still be going down once again.

I think the problem is many fold to be fair. A lot of governments have already a huge massive debt problem and poor economy even before the pandemic, and not they are fearing people on the ground are going to get even angrier. We already read many stories now of people going for Bitcoin and throwing away their country's fiat.

And also people are tired of living in fear when others their neighbors and friends do not care and go out and enjoy. It is all human nature being out here to show us how bad we are at doing things together:(


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: wxa7115 on September 25, 2020, 04:50:41 PM
It took 6 years for job levels to reach their original amount after 2008, and that's without having to worry about health procedures. Here, we can't even start the procedure of making more jobs until everyone is vaccinated or develops immunity to covid. And there is a large gargantuan percentage more jobs to recover this time around, and for all countries not just the US.

Assume a vaccine is made after 1 year. Then everyone is treated after another year. With the larger amount of jobs lost, multiply the 6-year recovery figure by 2. My senses say it could be 14 years before every single county makes back their job levels, though their economies will take a much shorter time to bring their foriegn trade levels back to normal, say 3-5 years from now.
And that is assuming the technology we have does not advance to the point of making many of those jobs unnecessary during that time frame, we already had a job crisis on the horizon as computers take jobs we thought were impossible to automate but when you add the pandemic to all of this then you have an incentive for businesses to not hire people immediately as not only they are costly but they run the risk of their activities begin stopped if too many get infected on their installations.

This gives them an incentive to only hire the people they actually need and replace the rest of their workers with computers so we will have to see how much this process delays the recovery of all the jobs there were lost.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Latviand on September 25, 2020, 06:53:19 PM
The truth is that I don’t know what will happen next, but I am always positive for my country and maybe the U-shaped curve I guess; I believe that as time goes on things will start getting better and the economy will start riding again.

We don't have any choice but to hope for the better things to happen in our economy.

Those governments are trying their best to achieve that U-shaped curve in a graph which is not that impossible to happen if people cooperates in following those safety protocols. The only thing that we need is to make the spread of the virus slower and reopen businesses that will help the economy grow and collect taxes so that the aid that the government allocated will come back to them.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: panganib999 on September 25, 2020, 10:08:22 PM
Among those possible patterns of recovery that the OP have provided, I think pattern shape V, U and L are the appropriate graphical representation of stabilization and consistency of recovery phase. Compared to the pattern shape W that have certain ups and downs which means there is still a challenge to keep up on stabilizing the recovery of a certain thing. The three first pattern shapes shows an upward stroke which is a good evening indication of a really recovering phase for they have already worked out certain flaws and incorrectness to be able to achieve such graph representation which is really good. When it comes to W, it is not certainly that bad, it is just that it is being challenged to keep up stabilizing the recovery phase which seems to be problematic but the good thing is still undergoing the up stroke after every down fall.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Salauddin1994 on September 26, 2020, 03:42:32 AM
The governments of each country are trying to improve their economies by stabilizing potential recovery patterns we have to go back to the state we were in before corona the damaged export business must be brought back. Import business needs to be restored remittance has to be kept right for this industries and factories have to be started in full swing agriculture needs to be revived small and medium industries need to be saved the government is taking various steps for this purpose.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: CODE200 on September 29, 2020, 08:26:28 PM
At times like this that we are into the pandemic, the pattern of economic recovery will be hard to be distinguished among the four possible patterns of recovery for the fact that it is not done yet and we are still facing the effect of pandemic and total recovery is hard to be achievable but I think at times like this the economic status will be more likely to be W shape curve for there is a peak of struggle and a peak of challenge to rise up happening on the economic recovery meaning there is still hardship or difficulty on maintaining the recovery phase of an economy. But to look forward on what pattern of recovery we are all hope to be seen as soon as it is possible to be done are those remaining three shaped pattern of recoveries U, V and L for those presents real deal of having an economic recovery from downside going up which is a good sign of recovery.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Upgrade00 on October 27, 2020, 07:16:22 AM
Update;
China continues it's expansion and looks to be taking the pattern of a V-shaped recovery according to his article - In a world mired in recession, China manages a V-shaped recovery (https://amp.economist.com/china/2020/10/24/in-a-world-mired-in-recession-china-manages-a-v-shaped-recovery?__twitter_impression=true). While other countries are still battling with the spread of the pandemic and the economic effects, China is leading the recovery, according to reports, they recorded a 4.9% increase in economic expansion during the just concluded third quarter of 2020 (July - September) and are on the path to a full recovery.

The article highlighted 2 factors which allowed such a recovery,
• Rapid measures to contain the spread of the virus; there is still a lot of debate around this as some other countries accuse China of allowing the virus spread to other nations while taking safety measures locally, but that is not the focus of this reply. Their lockdown measures proved very effective and allowed activities to return to normal faster and stimulate the economy.

• Strong global demand also proved very effective in China's economic recovery. This would mean that there is a constant demand for most of Chinese products globally as export growth continued in the third quarter.

I expect the global landscape to change over the years as de-globalization continues but for now nations with strong partners for their products would likely bounce back better from the economic crisis.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Mauser on October 27, 2020, 09:16:36 AM
I think there are two big factors for the rectory from the pandemic which are going to have huge impacts on consumer and business sentiments. First of all will the news of a successful long term vaccine against corona finally signal an end to the pandemic. If there is a way to mass produce a functional vaccine that is affordable for all countries, even the poorest, than there is hope we have the worst behind us. The second big factor would be another round of government bailout for the companies. If the government would inject more money into the economy it would help everybody.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: imstillthebest on October 27, 2020, 09:33:06 AM
i like the v shape recovery compare to w recovery and simmillar because v shape recoveries shows that the state of the country are on the positive side for a longer time  . on my country there is a small improvement , cases of viruses are getting lower and marketplaces are slowly opening  .

i can now see many people on the outside  but the rules are still the same , no mask and face shields no entry  but when it comes to financial i can observed that people are still  struglling  . i cant visualize accurately if what are the pattern on the recovery of my country , sorry for that .


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Rodeo02 on October 27, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
i like the v shape recovery compare to w recovery and simmillar because v shape recoveries shows that the state of the country are on the positive side for a longer time  . on my country there is a small improvement , cases of viruses are getting lower and marketplaces are slowly opening  .

i can now see many people on the outside  but the rules are still the same , no mask and face shields no entry  but when it comes to financial i can observed that people are still  struglling  . i cant visualize accurately if what are the pattern on the recovery of my country , sorry for that .

Its because every one need to adjust and no one can adopt this situation faster like what we think,many people are still unable to return to their jobs, others are able to return but their working hours are limited and that is what affects the money they would have earned and use for financial needs.
The economy can back slowly but in individual person that lost His job its hard.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: gantez on October 27, 2020, 11:50:59 AM
If the government would inject more money into the economy it would help everybody.

In my own aspect I can call this Vshape of recovery because if government pump money into the economy, both small scale businesses and large scale plus companies will go back into production that will employ people and the economy will start flourishing again. That means all aspect of the economy and country will come up alive almost at same pace and time.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: verita1 on October 27, 2020, 01:29:08 PM
The U shape could certainly be the model for the recovery of the world economy if in the short term the pandemic had a cure or at least the virus reduces its harmful effects.
China is restarting its economy but slowly because it needs other countries to put into operation the distribution channels of its goods.
We agree that the economic recovery is being affected by the pandemic. USA as a country with great economic momentum with more cases of covid19 and the second wave of infections that Europe is experiencing. I still wonder why we are not careful to see the experiences of others to minimize mistakes with the idea of ​​getting out of this crisis quickly.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: davinchi on October 27, 2020, 06:26:59 PM
Recovery is for the big business and government but not for the people and that is the biggest problem.
If the Chinese people are still starving and trying to barely survive instead of living, could we call that recovery?

If a company makes a billion dollars in profit a month yet the worker needs food stamps from the government could we even call that a recovery?

The world doesn't understand what the real recovery is, they see numbers and stocks and whenever rich people get richer they think everything is fine, look at USA right now one of the most elite countries (maybe the most) in the world and they say stock market is getting better and people are finding jobs again, yet you look at unemployment rate and homelessness level and it is record high, that is not a recovery at all if people want to look at that.


Title: Re: Possible Patterns of Recovery
Post by: Xembin on October 27, 2020, 07:05:38 PM
This season many people really lose so many profit for this pandemic which many have never yet recover from their loss during the pandemic. US covid-19 cases is reducing gradually because the government is trying their possible power to make sure the virus is gone from the country.
Us presidential election campaign is still on going which no one has contacted covid-19 because they are always maintaining the social distances and washing of hands.