Bitcoin Forum

so who and when will solve that problem?
btc transaction fees are way too high!
btc transactions are way too slow!
as im the big fan of fiat money and banks and reason for that becouse i make my transaction with online bank much faster to same bank and with much less fees then  i do it with cryptocurrency.



the cost of something what is so hovest should be cheap as possible is way too high and ethereum is expensive too but at least eth transactions are much more faster so you get what you pay for at least but bitcoin it need to improve much more

There have been Bitcoin improvement proposals over the years aimed at improving the cost of transaction, such as segwit. Some are in the process of being implemented currently - Schnorr and Taproot.

There are personal measures you can take to reduce the fee you spend on transaction;
• Consolidate your small inputs to reduce the size of future transactions
• Use segwit addresses
• Time your transactions so you spend low fees during times when the mempool is clear.

Bitcoin transactions are also way more secure and the network more protected from malicious attacks

lol:Di dont care and i dont have time to learn all of this i rather use just cheaper and faster transaction coin lol:D

or just use my bank account stress free and zero transactions cost segwit and all that things not for people who are old school people all the new shiet there is out there if we start to learn all about all this new innovatavie bs...........then our time will go waste.




sorry to be rude little but im serious person with very serious mind set i just cant tolerate any bs of anything everything should work efficenly and good and most important is quality the btc is not cheap to use and if something like this is so expensive to use it it got to be perfect !

The Lightning Organize would basically permit clients to send numerous exchanges to and from exterior of the blockchain. It would work as a moment layer on best of the existing dispersed record arrange that supports the computerized currency.

Have you ever said fiat transaction fee is too high when BTC tx fee was normal like a few cent (considering 1 input and 2 output) for a few hundred thousands USD worth of BTC? No, definitely. So, what I see is you are a fudder.
BTC tx isn't slow, it works in what way it should be working. Only fee is the thing which get changed regularly.
People are expecting to see a massive change in fee once LN  comes into the ground.

to exchnge btc to fiat is still expensive and doing transactions with btc is expenive also .


to exchnage btc into fiat is allready very expensive and transactions also expensive.... to use fiat curreny its cheaper right now lets look the facts.

So what ware you doing here on the crypto bitcoin forum when you think fiat is better than bitcoin. Tell me you need to send money form one country to another, how much you pay the fee ?  Do you think Western union and other services work free of cost ? :D 
Bitcoin is still the cheapest way to move the fund quickly and cheaply.

yes it is but for local payments is my own bank transfers:)  im in crypto like others ...the destiny have brought me here i got in to crypto :

We still have to use fiat in most of the local payments because the option of using bitcoin is not available at many merchants. You may use bitcoin online where using credit card might be more expensive.  Crypto give you more financial freedom as compare to fiat currencies.

No one is forcing you to use bitcoin, if you find it beyond your scope in terms of usability then who is forcing you to use it. Since you are a bank rider what is the cost of transacting internationally in different currencies and what are the conversion charges, just compare with bitcoin transaction charges and then debate about it.

It is a new market and the technology is new, if you need improvements it will take a long time and the developers are doing their job finding solutions and it will take time and if you have the skills you can contribute for the development.

The issue is real so there's no denying! Bitcoin scaling is an issue in reality but there are certain measures in place like Segwit and another much impactful measure in on its way - Lightening Network!

So what we all face today will be eliminated eventually. There are still bugs and vulnerabilities in LN but every new technology faces such issues. Once LN will be up in full scale and with all vulnerabilities solved, bitcoin will surely become the most preferred choice among the cryptocurrencies for transactions.

Also don't compare fiat with bitcoin because an age old system can't be really compared to an 11 years old system.

People do really love on comparing things but i cant blame out yet this had been the primary purpose or reason on why Bitcoin is created.It might not be a perfect system but to think that it had been created

for the sole purpose of Peer-to-Peer transaction, same goes with its anonymity and irreversible feature which you cant really see on a centralized thing like fiat.Of course there are flaws

but seeing entirely the community, we can presume out that people do still supporting this project for a decade in spite of its cons.@OP, if you do find out that BTC isnt interesting to you then
you can freely leave and stick out with that fiat. 8)

How much is that too much for you? Whenever I transact bitcoin these days, I don't find the fees to be that much and it's been always on time for its confirmation. Unlike the Ethereum transactions, the fees are completely high and the confirmation time takes place even for days.
Use lightning network and segwit if you want to pay fees and have a quicker confirmation.

The point of Bitcoin is to have money that can't be seized by some third party for whatever reason, and so that centralized companies won't be able to sell or share all your transaction history to whomever asks them. If these things don't concern you, or if you think that it's worth trading them for cheaper transactions, then sure, you're better off using banks. Right now Bitcoin can't compete with banks in everything, but it has its own niche.

I don't get your point here you are complaining about the transaction being high while there is a member who offers knowledge on how to pay lesser fee on every transaction and you would answer that member with this kind of rudeness?
We are free to use whatever crypto we would see fit to us you don't need to drag or point out something that is already obvious to everyone just to convince them to use other crypto or quit on crypto.

Can you transfer $10M for only a fee of $4 or less using your Fiat money transfer systems?

This transaction took place about 30 minutes ago
https://blockchair.com/bitcoin/transaction/d81c45a30d492426da68fb86aea823738b2659ac4984d944a02daa38bd232b63

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/14/blob8745a47edaa0642b.png

Wake me up when you have proof that this is possible with fiat systems and banks otherwise stop moaning about bitcoin fees yet in actual sense they are low and fair.

I am also practicing those personal measures of yours, as sometimes you can't avoid to transact with btc. So as much as possible, reduce your btc fees by observing those tips. I like the last one, time your txs when the mempool is clear, and it will really require you small fees when the mempool is not busy.


Yes, that's a very good example when you are trying to complain about btc tx fees. You can't do that kind of tx using fiat systems or remittances or banks. And aside from that, they will require you supporting docs.

Try sending ETH in the Ethereum blockchain, and you'll experience much insane fees compared to BTC. Also, if you're complaining about an issue could you better provide more info and details on the matter, so we can see if there's really a spike in congestion and increase in fees and provide second layer solutions such segwit that confirms transaction in second layer solution (LN) to be exact.

Then perhaps only use bitcoin when you really needed to instead of ranting on its 'perceived slowness' that most of us don't feel? No one is forcing anyone to use bitcoin on the daily for transfers of funds and currencies, as it's always a decision that one has to choose depending on a given situation. You can easily transfer millions of dollars worth in BTC without having to go through rigorous checks and insane fees unlike fiat that you are glorifying. Perhaps in small sum transfers, fiat is king, but on high-value transfers? Think again.

At present I do not consider that the Bitcoin fees are high, on the contrary they remain in a good range.
I can agree that we need more development for Bitcoin to make it more usable, I wish Bitcoin to be used in masses. We should not worry because there are developers thinking about it.
We are lucky because we are witnessing great changes in the crypto world.

I was reading this article and BCH can send transactions in two to three seconds or less with Avalanche. A platform that has launched its mainnet. So I think Bitcoin too.

https://news.bitcoin.com/bch-avalanche-transactions-show-finality-speeds-10x-faster-than-ethereum/ (https://news.bitcoin.com/bch-avalanche-transactions-show-finality-speeds-10x-faster-than-ethereum/)

ok then btc is great but not good way to send sometimes small ammounts.)

you are wrong ....my friend long time ago all most forced me to use btc coz i had to pay him and i asked how can i pay to you``?
he said...men dont you know how??? its bitcoin  i asked wtff?? what is the btc ? he said use btc its best and from then i started using btc.
i said can i pay by bank...? he no only bitcoin then i opened my first wallet....and wow it was great thing
lol:D   

You have to keep in mind that the bitcoin blockchain is by far the most active and "congested" blockchain of any cryptocurrency.  Sure it's easy for Bitcoin Cash and others to transact quicker and cheaper because they've got way less transactions to process.  I agree however that bitcoin is too slow and too expensive.  I think things will eventually get worked out though, and if we can ever get the Lightning Network up and running I'll be really excited about whats to come.

Transaction speed were always depends on the fees you wanted to execute. I don't see that much as an issue. Come to think of it, despite of those were the said problems above were present, bitcoin is still the most popular and most invested cryptocurrency.
 
 And, lightining network is the solution to that problem. Of course, we wanted an instant transactions with lower fees. But given that bitcoin is still working on it, investos already know and accepted that fact thus not giving much an issue about it.

Right now fees are normal but yeah, you still can wait for 3 conformations more than a 50 minutes. That's why in my opinion bitcoin is working best as store of value but not the best option for payments

Bitcoin has its own nich.
The most important thing in a transaction is safe delivering.
I don't think BTC  is slow in transaction making compare to others like BNB,and LTC. What everybody is in interested with in a transaction, is successful delivering which that is what  bitcoin stand for, and it hard to transact with wrong people or less you fail to follow the rules of their transaction.
You can reduce your fees by using lighting network and Segwit to pay your fee and have it done.

Bitcoin's high and slow cost is something we've seen for many years. That cannot be doubted because the technical structure of bitcoin has not changed over the years, requires 6 confirmations, and each block is generated according to the difficulty of Bitcoin, so it takes an average of 1 hour for bitcoin to convert to public. Bitcoin transactions are costly and slow but transacting millions of dollars with Bitcoin is easier and better than other forms of payment because they have high liquidity and lower costs.
In the future when costs will be higher, we do not necessarily need to use Bitcoin in our transactions. We can Wrap Bitcoin on other Blockchain platforms in the future to reduce costs.

My take on the matter is that; yes Bitcoin transaction fee is on the side and the system is not fast. Bitcoin transfer takes time even if there is enough network. Also concerning the fee, most times it's almost half the amount you are sending. Please I will like the agencies to look into it for improvement

It's true my Sir, sometimes the banks system is better all things been equal, as soon as you make your transfer it goes in seconds and also at a fix and cheap rate.

Ways to reduce the fees were already mentioned, and I also want to point out that you should put the fees into perspective. If you compare a Bitcoin transaction with PayPass, then it's taking too long and is costly. But compared with international banking transfers, it's faster and cheaper. The transaction fee is also quite different in different periods of time, ranging regularly from dozens of cents to a few dollars. Moreover, the sum also matters. If you're spending 200 dollars or more, the transaction fee for BTC can be quite small in comparison, whereas it would be too high for a cup of coffee. Finally, you're right that the price and the speed compose a huge problem of Bitcoin that has to be dealt with.

For transactions I will prefer using online banking system because their transaction charges are fixed and cheap too compared to Bitcoin. Bitcoin transaction charges is high and not that fast too. You have to wait for several minutes before it gets to the receiver. But for savings I prefer saving in Bitcoin wallets at least my coins will grow with time.

Concerning what you said you are correct. I think it will be better to be used while doing international transfer and it's safer too and cheaper. Because I could remember going to one the banks and I saw the amount for transaction charges for someone who wants to send money abroad. It's a whole lot of money. For me instead of such amount I will wait for the amount of time Bitcoin will take to arrive.

Wow this is amazing, never knew such system of bitcoin transaction at a cheap rate exist. Many thanks

Now I see reasons why it seems slow. I never understood this. I thought it takes just one confirmation. Never thought it takes 6 confirmations. But although I know it's risk Free. Thanks sir for this information

I suggest you to learn from credible sources instead of reading from random comments on the internet. If someone said you need 20 confirmations would you also believe it then? Those 'required confirmations' are not hard-coded and most of the time it's the merchant, business, receiver choice to consider which number they consider good enough for their business.

Mastering Bitcoin is a good place to learn, so you'll know why and how things happens. If you don't want to do it and just want to whine about fees, maybe use altcoins instead. Oh, and stop double posting please.

If you don't care then why even ask? Instead of running around crying and saying that bitcoin is not fast and expensive to use, how about you give solutions or ideas on how the protocol  can be improved. Maybe you might actually come up with some solution, who knows.
No one is forcing you to use bitcoin. Like you said, you should rather be using your "cheaper" and "faster" transaction coin. That guy gave you legit suggestions and you just didn't bother looking at those.

These are common issues related to BTC and everyone have gotten used to them. Why do they still use BTC despite these glaring issues? Because of the anonymity aspect obviously. They don't want any government interference.

Also, there are many alternate cryptocurrencies which have faster TX times and low TX fees like LTC etc. If you don't like any cryptocurrency, stick to FIAT since you seem to prefer them heavily op.

What about transacting huge amount using wire transfer to different country's bank account? It may take few days and also fee is really high.

And more important you are transacting your funds without help of anyone.

As ever, the actually important and useful thing is the decentralisation and permissionlessness. That's why we have all that boring stuff like fees and waiting for confirmations. It comes at a cost.

Anyone can come up with something free and instant by discarding that. At some point it's going to fail or bite.

Since you're a ' big fan of fiat money and banks' (is there such a thing? Do you go on banking enthusiast days out with others?) then you are exceptionally well served. Nice one.

Well the problem with using other altcoins as u say is that they wont hold your value. Not saying that Btc isn't volatile but its less so then alts. Also with alts there is always the risk of exit scams and such and such. Btc is the only crypto currency that really has any form of stability relatively speaking of course.  The Only thing that comes relatively close to BTC is ether and fees there aren't cheap anymore as well

You can use Lightning network transactions for cheaper fees on BTC.

You are always free to use your bank account no one is suggesting you not use it. there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Also as with any innovation you have to be willing to take the time to learn about it or simply get left behind, Or do you still use a typewriter.

That's what makes bitcoin more popular and most trusted cryptocurrency to invest with.

If you think that bitcoin transactions are slow, just try to become more patient and try to look for greater exchange or software that is also secured.

Malicious attacks are always there that's why you are the one who is responsible with your account and wallet so that viruses will not enter your platform. Also in terms of transactions fees, bitcoin will really have higher transaction fees compared to other coins because the bitcoin community is really huge than other altcoins.

Yeah, if I would choose between transferring using banks or bitcoin I'd simply say bitcoin, coz why not? I don't have to pay such fees because you guys are signing a paper, I want the fee to pay those miners. But to be honest, btc fees is killing me and so the eth fees, I guess that would be the only problem having these crypto.

Transacting anonymously without any intermediaries, but sometimes you need banks if you want to be sure where your money goes.

Its only short time problem but we never can use ethereum for transactions in real life because most of the shit tokens uses that network and made it into completely unusable coins.When it comes to bitcoin the fees are still under control and in the future when lightning network got implemented by most merchants then it will clear the number of transactions in the blockchain.

Why we need to know where the money goes? We are sending the money and we can get the confirmation status then our job is done.

One confirmation is only to mark that Bitcoin is being transferred to your account, but if you want to use the transferred bitcoins, make 6 confirmations so that the funds are fully yours.

This problem has been debated for a long period of time already and I didn't see any good response yet that will likely to solve the current problems of bitcoin like it's transaction fees and it's transaction time. I don't know if we can see in the future the solution to this problem but as of right now, I believe that it will take a decade before it can be solve or there is a  big chance that it will remain the same as the creator of bitcoin is still unknown.

right now, what you can do to lessen your fees is to check the activity of mempool before sending your btc to another address. the other day i only used few satoshis for my tx to go thru as the network is not so busy at that time. so timing is important not to incur huge tx fees. for now, i think that's one way of avoiding those expensive fees

Afaik, even if Satoshi did come back, he can't really touch the code due to how he designed it to be like that. Even if he decided to ask the community to ask something, it'd have to be something sensible and not for selfish gains, so I highly doubt even with his return, something would change. As for the issues of BTC, it's not like everyone is forced to use it, so I really see no need to even debate about it. Fees issues? Find a period of time where not many transactions are being made, or you can wait quite some time for it in exchange for lower fees. Time issues? Then spend more on fees. You want both? Then wait for a period where not much transactions are being made.

He didn't said that fiat is better than Bitcoin. He was just saying that in fiat, we don't need to pay this much as transaction fee. 99% of the users don't need to send money from one country to the other. So there is no point in saying that Bitcoin is cheaper for cross-border transactions. Bitcoin is not the cheapest way to move funds quickly and cheaply. 99% of the transactions involve moving of medium-sized amounts from one wallet to the other and for that purpose Bitcoin is not very suitable.

The bank is not good if you want large sums of money, very large fees, and can be investigated by that amount. You can transfer large amounts of money to another country via bitcoin at a rate several dollars faster than a bank.
Bitcoin grows slowly, but it could improve in other ways in the future. We have lightning networks, we wrap Bitcoin, and they help move bitcoins faster.
The miners involved in bitcoin mining help Bitcoin share power and be monitored and fraud-proof.

Same thing as you, I make use of bank online whenever I’m sending money within my country. But trust me, when it comes to international transactions, bank is no where near to Bitcoin when it comes to fees, because banks are charging way more for transactions that are international and the most annoying part of it is that some of the methods you have available in banks take days, and the process that follows are usually stressing and annoying.

When you make use of Bitcoin for international transactions it’s much better. I have worked with people who are in other countries and I tell them to pay me with Bitcoin and the process is always fast; just my address and I get the money that same minute and then exchange it with a local exchanger that pays the amount into my bank account in few minutes.

I think the fees are ok usually but during congestion can be a bit much. Remember when you hardly paid anything for fees? Now that bitcoin has increase in value that little bit that was once dust is now a few $$
Which doesn't seem like much but can add up when making lots of transactions especially on top of trading fees. Eth was the next option but now it has become even more expensive to use than bitcoin.
Then again look at what paypal and the like charge. Probably still more then crypto.

Does bitcoin itself  need an evolution very soon?
I guess things need to change more than just a proposal like segwit or something, i am not a guy with technical stuff but from what i can see the segwit solution untill this day it did not work out . Am i wrong?
The situation makes bitcoin usage as a payment processor decreased as people start to moving on to altcoins that have more cheaper and faster. It is indeed bitcoin remain popular , but will it last forever with altcoin evolution have made a big impact to the wide community?

Actually, segwit was never the solution to lower the fee. Through segwit, we can only have more tx in a block as it computed the size as weight instead of byte. There's no significant fee changes.
If the everyone started to use BTC, the fee will be significantly crazy for all the time and it's true that it's always a resistance for adoption in mass level. But through LN, it's possible to decrease the tx fee as it will be off chain, problem is many people never heard about what LN is, same in case of segwit even.

BTC has the benefit over fiat of having unreversible and uncensorable transactions, but if you're looking for less fees you could try BCH or XRP.

Thats it,i don't know what is the problem in transaction fee when they can even choose other currencies with low fees?i use XRP in case i needed to transact in this kind of situation.
this is also the reason why BTC transaction is lowering these days because people had already learn their lesson.
to not cry when the fee is high instead find other way to make it cheaper.

For Transaktion use DASH: save as Bitcoin thanks to Chainlocks, send within secounds and fees are really really low.

But of course you need to exchange BTC to DASH and back because these days you have the risk BTC to fiat and DASH to BTC. For that I have no solution then flipping DASH and BTC  ;)

Bitcoin Network is slow but secure. Sometimes you could send your assets in other coin and other network, but the other day i had the situation that i had to use btc network. The transaction hash shows success status after 2 confirmations. The money had been transferred whithin another hour.

The purpose of Bitcoin is to have cash that can't be seized by some outsider out of the blue, thus those brought together organizations won't have the option to sell or share all your exchange history to whoever asks them. In the event that these things don't concern you, or in the event that you feel that it merits exchanging them for less expensive exchanges, at that point sure, you're in an ideal situation utilizing banks. At this moment Bitcoin can't contend with banks in all things, yet it has its own specialty.

XRP? Seriously? Who is even using that shitcoin? It is not even decentralized and therefore it can't be used for "undetectable" and "irreversible" transactions. If you are bothered about the high transaction fee of Bitcoin, then there are tons of other coins that can be considered. But make sure that they have good liquidity. I would prefer coins such as BCH, LTC, ETH and ADA.

Bitcoin blockchain can be thought of as a base layer for final settlements, international wire transfers, and other transactions where huge amounts of money are involved. First of all, when transacting in bitcoin, there are no any third-party risks; both payer and payee don't necessarily have to trust each other; transactions are irreversible, cannot be hacked or altered. Given that everything is happening within a decentralized, borderless, neutral, apolitical blockchain, there are also no additional fees besides mining fees. Mining fees are relatively low when compared to those of traditional money transfers. Transactions are not slow either, it takes 10-60 minutes to confirm, which is very fast when we are talkng about international transfers and final settlements between entities.