Bitcoin Forum

Some anonymous "crypto farmer" on twitter insists that Satoshi Nakamoto premined 1 million bitcoin which sparked a little debate.

https://i.ibb.co/R3P4Sjd/btc-premine.jpg
(source (https://twitter.com/owocki/status/1309897283413004288))

Another user supported the argument claiming that although Satoshi had zero btc mined when it was launched, information about Bitcoin was only known to a few people before and mining was exclusive to them. Thus, premined. (source (https://twitter.com/0xfactor1/status/1309902248953049088))

Of course counter arguments that Satoshi's btc weren't premined at all were raised:
1. Bitcoin protocol was announced in 2008 and launched in 2009. Anyone interested would have been able to mine since day 1 and compete with Satoshi. (source (https://twitter.com/vakeraj/status/1309900577527169027))
2. No btc was created before bitcoin was launched. No ICO or other forms of fund raising in exchange of btc.

I know many members here who are familiar with Bitcoin would probably laugh when they read this. For the sake of newbies who do not know these details, can you add why Satoshi's coins weren't premined?

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I don't know why some of these altcoin shills and yield farmers are still trolling bitcoin to defend/protect their investments when they can't even define what premine is. They are only embarrassing themselves imo. It's not Satoshi's fault that bitcoin wasn't popular and only a few mined during the early days.

No definition about premine whatsoever, typical lazy ass debate imo. No need to actually responds to something that's just clearly wasting your time. They won't change their mind about it. I think newbies should find out what "premine" actually is before they decided to pick side.

Seems he doesn't know what is "premine " to start a debate with. Premined coin is only possible if there's no new coins to be mined which means the damn 21m bitcoins are already mined.

 

If the mentioned 1 million bitcoin was premined, then the calculation of forking and other halving events go completely different from the calculations made in accordance with the very first bitcoin mined on a normal computer and further with the need of more hash power the mining process differs with more advancement on technical equipment with better power efficiency.

https://i.imgur.com/t4pCuMh.jpg

I mean, the guy arguing that Bitcoin was premined (apart from obviously not understanding the term "premine") is shilling for some shitcoin, so you can probably take anything he says with a whole pile of salt.

Bitcoin did not have any coins created before the mining process started with the genesis block, therefore there was, by definition, no premine. Satoshi did not give himself or anybody else an instant gift of thousands of coins like actually premined coins do. Anyone who wanted to could have downloaded the client and mined bitcoin right from the genesis block onward.

That's not true either. Obviously you can have some premined coins and not all of them. Before the ico the boom, premine had a different tone to it and there was an issue to people who didn't know how to read the open sourced code and wasn't aware of the premined coins. There were some altcoin devs who just dumped the hidden premined coins crashing the market at some point.

Satoshi wasn't the only person who mined Bitcoin in the early days, and he really had no choice but to mine those blocks, or the network would stop. It's not his fault that not as many people were interested in Bitcoin in the first year, it was still a highly experimental software that few people believed in. Satoshi didn't keep Bitcoin's existence or the software and mining process a secret, so you can't really call it a premine - other people had an opportunity too.

Base on what I read he encourage that devs should restart the whole system as its just all an experiment but the miners kept mining so it continues to be mined and here we are still.  If there was a reboot, there would have been a fair distribution and all of us would have been mining using our CPU and then GPU. 

Premined or Not,  does it matter now?  Because obviously, Satoshi had long forgot his 1M BTC.

He did not premine and I would NOT bet his ~1.3+ M are out of circulation permanently.  Last time he 'spent' coins in 2010 (at least that is known to be his with a high degree of confidence) his transaction suggested his wallet was filled to the brim with his mined coins.

This is pathetic. We're starting to doubt 11 years later the reasons why the presumed Satoshi-owned 1M coins have not been burned/sold yet? Bitcoin started as a project nobody knew about and nobody could've predicted would ever become what it currently is. When Satoshi mined these coins, he did it while Bitcoin was worth literally nothing. He probably can't believe his own eyes right now, considering it all started as pretty much an attempted experiment after previous attempts such as Nick Szabo's. It's pretty silly how some people doubt it now, when Bitcoin turned into a big actual success.

Simply because they want to profited from this so called pre-mine shill coins. And they can do this by attacking bitcoin and show some argument that even bitcoin was pre-mine in it's early days, Lol. We all know that bitcoin wasn't pre-mine by anyone, not even Satoshi himself. Bitcoin started relatively unknown (just like any other revolutionary invention), it just caught up with the cyber punk crowds then slowly supported by developers who understand that this is going to change the landscape.

The talk has been revived again since for sure there are people shilling to make people doubt about those things and I can't blame people to get afraid for those information since they doesn't really know the real situation of bitcoins especially for new people around. Remember FOMO is a business for the others since some whales can earn with it if they can spread panic and have a panic selling at the moment. But as of now Bitcoin really gain huge success even before when people doubt it and for sure it will be the currency of the future.

The past or present altcoin developers and these shills need to shit onBTCitcoin to find legitimacy because it is clearly evident that they know very well that they are creating these shitty coins and tokens just to make money and they wanted to convince everyone that it is a normal phenomena to create some stupid coins and the developers holding a major share of the coins premined and they need to convince the investors that BTCitcoin also premined and then waiting to dump the coins in the market.

Satoshi published the white paper and everything he did was according to the plan and it was not a secret project as anyone in the world could join and start mining and if you have the equal opportunity of commons everything is fair.

kinda of a fud again about BTC despite it being widely accepted already after a decade. its this time that most of the big guys wants to price to drop seriously in order to fill their bags. but its all been done before. somehow it always open a discussion that many will consider a valid argument.

but who else wanted to see him dump his 1.3M BTC? it would still be fun to see this happen if satoshi still has his keys.

Obviously, he is someone that doesn't know what a pre-mine is and if he did he wouldn't speak.
Satoshi mined to sustain the network and if I remember reading correctly he was mining with multiple CPUs to prevent possible attacks.

The problem is that some DeFi shill thinks that the Bitcoin maxis are harming Ethereum by talking about premining and remembered to talk about it two months later from this discussion in August and now that everyone is noticing the Ethereum DeFi only has pump and dumps and exit-scams to offer.

Ethereum was premined by 72 million tokens from the Genesis Block. 60m went for the ICO and two rounds of sales and 12 more million for the devs (more info here (https://www.trustnodes.com/2019/12/27/the-mystery-of-12-million-eth)).
This is the Ethereum devs premined tokens transaction:
https://etherscan.io/tx/0x9c81f44c29ff0226f835cd0a8a2f2a7eca6db52a711f8211b566fd15d3e0e8d4

This is what a premine is, and it has nothing to do with Satoshi mining to stabilize and secure the Bitcoin network in its infancy. Instead, it was Ethereum that was created with a carefully designed plan to make devs rich and premined at a 70% rate.

This was one tweet among others that probably triggered many altcoin fans that haven't even done the slightest research on the coins they bought.

https://i.imgur.com/B3Nl4W9.png

1 million premined is only 5% of the total. If he holds them that doesn't affect the network or the market, the problems come if he spends all those coins. If he moves a single satoshi we will see a crazy crash on the markets, you can be sure of that.

He didn't actually pointed towards premined coin directly which we usually see in most of altcoin shit. Since at the beginning, satoshi had no competitor and satoshi was able to mine BTC without a lot of competitors, satoshi actually had advantage of mining, didn't he? That's his point and from some views he is right also.
However, I don't agree with him totally. If I'm to create a technology but expecting others to use without using by myself, would be a bad idea. If satoshi would stop mining, may be we could not see bitcoin to reach here.

there are lots of these newbies on the internet who are too lazy to fact check the crap they read online and at some point someone used the word "premine" because they don't understand what it really means so they are now repeating it like a parrot.
in any case i don't think some idiot tweeting something wrong is worth starting a topic though.

So? That's not a premine. He didn't give himself any coins prior to when he started mining them.

Anyone in the world could have mined alongside Satoshi right from day one and have just as large as stack (or even larger) than Satoshi himself had.
Anyone in the world who started mining the vast majority of altcoins from day one (if they can even be mined) would never come close to the fact that the creators have often gifted themselves upwards of 70% of the supply before even releasing the coin.

Having an advantage when mining is not a premine. An open field of competition which anyone can enter but only a few choose to do so is vastly different to just buying yourself a trophy.

I get what you mean. I created this for educational purposes because, even after a decade in the space, some people are still insisting they're premined. If we'll just ignore this, new traders/investors, who read tweets like that and who're lazy to fact check as you said, would easily buy crap premined coins and minted tokens because they would think it's the same as bitcoin.

Yes? As in they're premined?
What's the significance of being P2PK?

The main significance of the fact that they are P2PK rather than P2PKH is that the public key is known for all 2 million or so of these coins. This means they are potentially vulnerable to being stolen in the future by quantum computers running Shor's algorithm.

The script type used for these coins is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion regarding premines, as far as I can tell.

I wish I had been around to help him with his "premining" :)

Thanks for the added knowledge. I didn't know about such vulnerability.

Yeah, this is what I'm getting at and I'm curious what @BASE16 is trying to say.

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"Hindsight is 20-20"  ;D

The whole pretext for premine is to dump it regularly in exchange for the fiat the investors and buyers bring in so that the company that runs the crypto can sustain itself until it finds a viable revenue source.
With Bitcoin, none of this applies. Bitcoin was not set up as a company.

Its code was open source. Basically anyone can recreate it. It's just that people back then didn't care. Even I came into crypto pretty late. Most of us, and I don't feel hesitant to admit it, joined crypto to get rich. And we're the kind of folks that care about pre-mined coins.

But the only people that got into this whole shebang to develop and pioneer a new technology, only they really got rich. Hence it pays to be an early adopter of a promising tech. But not everyone can identify a promising tech.

Bitcoin Maxis intent that there was an instamine on DASH where DEV mined in the time very low people know about it.
Apart from that right or wrong whats the difference between that an Bitcoin.

Even if Satoshi is dead someone ever find his keys or an idea about Passwords that will have an enourmus hit on BTC  

Those P2PK were never spend they are still there.
Anyone can check it.

It's more like the chicken and the egg question.
Say you wanted to order a pizza for 10.000 BTC then you need to have 10.000 BTC it has to come from somewhere.
The same goes for the Miner, without someone having coins and making the first transactions, there would not be anything to mine.
It has to start somewhere.  :)