Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: TrevorS on October 02, 2020, 04:40:29 PM



Title: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: TrevorS on October 02, 2020, 04:40:29 PM
On Twitter, there are messages from users who say that Elon Musk sent them twice the amount of BTC.
Be careful. And remember that Elon Musk loves Dodgecoin first and foremost.

https://i.imgur.com/jj40HIa.png


Also, by clicking on the link, you can see the "classic" text:

https://i.imgur.com/9QX0yhe.png


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Leviathan.007 on October 02, 2020, 05:06:09 PM
The method is pretty old to ask people for some bitcoins and give them double or more amount of bitcoins in return. However, the method was used by the hackers after the wave of twitter hacks and unfortunately, they could get some bitcoins from victim. By the way, nice catch OP and thank you for the warning. However, you could create a topic about it on scam accusations and give us some more details about it or report the twitter account.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: taufik123 on October 02, 2020, 05:10:51 PM
Even though Elon Musk likes bitcoin, he wouldn't give a Giveaway like this. Scam ads like this often appear and are published everywhere in all social media. It has even appeared on paid YouTube ads.

Scam accounts like this must be reported immediately so that they are immediately blocked and do not mislead others.
Giveaway scam ads like this are still less dangerous compared to yesterday's incident involving the accounts of famous people posting fake giveaways and it was carried out by hackers who are currently arrested.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: TedMosby on October 02, 2020, 05:37:13 PM
it just a normal day on twitter, man  ;D ;D ;D
I wonder if it still works. it must be still working, because they still did it, in the same way ;D ;D ;D
I also get an email periodically about the stellar foundation giveaway.
I saw that youtube ads still promoting fake ETH giveaway as well.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: TrevorS on October 02, 2020, 05:54:50 PM
it just a normal day on twitter, man  ;D ;D ;D
I wonder if it still works. it must be still working, because they still did it, in the same way ;D ;D ;D
I also get an email periodically about the stellar foundation giveaway.
I saw that youtube ads still promoting fake ETH giveaway as well.

It's funny that scammers began to use workarounds in the form of user tweets confirming the receipt of some kind of awards. This is ridiculous.
But, slyly. After all, the link leads to change.org, and at first glance looks like a celebration of life. I hope no one believed in this scam and paid the scammers a cent. 2020 is still, it's time to stop donating scammers.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Upgrade00 on October 02, 2020, 05:58:45 PM
I don't think this post should be in Bitcoin discussion section as it's not directly related to the currency, beginners and help may be more suitable as it would warn newbies of similar scams which they are exposed to when on the internet. The more newbies learn how to browse the internet safely, the less successful this scam attempts would be;

• The first step is protecting your personal details. Exposing contact information like social media handles and email addresses increases the possibility of that data being sold to scammers, making one a target.
• Newbies should also understand that there is no free money on the internet and if there is, you wouldn't need to pay to get it. Any offer that requires you to deposit inorder to claim a much bigger stash of cash is most likely a scam. These could come in different forms like,
- requesting you deposit on a site before being able to withdraw
- informing you about an investment venture which offers profits, they could even allow you earn small amounts before using <inserts bogus excuse> to close it down and you now have a much higher offer to claim, but you need $xxx for <inserts bogus product> to claim it.
- there's also this case of a pay certain amount and get double sent back to you.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: travwill on October 02, 2020, 06:08:19 PM
Leave poor Elon alone. How much can you use his good name and take cryptocurrency from people. Are there really no better candidates?
Why Donald Trump isn't giving out cryptocurrency or Vitalik Buterin himself. But what about Barack Obama the most respected person in the world? Hands off Elon Mask scammers!


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: taufik0911 on October 02, 2020, 06:20:48 PM
Other scammers, currently very many who create scam sites and fake or edited tweets
I come across messages like that almost every day, it's clear that it's the act of scammers who take advantage of the moment when people started to enter the world of cryptocurrency
for people who have been familiar with the cryptocurrency world for a long time it will be very easy to find out which is a scammer and which one is genuine is different from newbies, they should be more careful


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Quidat on October 02, 2020, 06:32:23 PM
it just a normal day on twitter, man  ;D ;D ;D
I wonder if it still works. it must be still working, because they still did it, in the same way ;D ;D ;D
I also get an email periodically about the stellar foundation giveaway.
I saw that youtube ads still promoting fake ETH giveaway as well.
I agree that this one is always been part of this crypto space where you do find out these kind of fake or shady giveaways.
Twitter from popular personalities that do ask out about doubling bitcoin as some for of charitable or thankgiving then its already a busted bullshit scam attempt.
When they would ever learn? It might had worked in the past but if people had already seen this in the past then it wont work on the second time around
but we know that hackers doesnt really surrender that too early yet they would always have something new into their sleeve.Once a modus or method
had been bust then they are formulating for another one which might really fool out people specially if its something that havent been known yet by everybody.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Renampun on October 02, 2020, 06:32:33 PM
...
wow, the scammers opened a petition on change.org to launch their scam...
for us, this is certainly a common scam but for those who don't know what it is, this will make them tempted and trapped by the scam. I hope no one gets caught up in their trick, and to be honest they are already making cryptocurrency bad in society.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: AniviaBtc on October 02, 2020, 06:37:02 PM
Elon Musk's personality is repeatedly and commonly used in a fake giveaways because they think that people are easily be fooled by his name. It is very sketchy and suspicious if you see a giveaway that asks you to send money first before getting the reward, that is an obvious scam. Real and legit BTC or ETH giveaways should be easily collected and doesn't need for a sure to send money.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: adzino on October 02, 2020, 07:26:45 PM
It is nothing new. I have seen those giveaways in facebook, twitter, youtube and even in random articles that somehow got to the top! I guess most people are well aware of the fake giveaway after the recent twitter hack. But still there are people who fall for those. Those dimwits think elon is going to give them free money for no reason lol.  Now, if they still fall for scams like those, I guess they do deserve to get scammed for being this stupid and greedy. At least they will learn a lesson and will always think twice before seeing such offers.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Bitcoinislife09 on October 02, 2020, 08:04:52 PM
Elon Musk name is used a lot of scams in social media maybe because it was a big name and related to cryptocurrency many people tend to fall into these kinds of hacker traps. A big amount of airdrop by Elon Musk is just a normal day on twitter and also in a lot of social media so its a classic way for a scammer to target newbies for phishing and maybe just to get information to a lot of users where they could maybe sell. It's pretty obvious to spot this kind of scam so I think only newbies are going to attract this kind of scams.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Becky666 on October 02, 2020, 08:47:05 PM
it just a normal day on twitter, man  ;D ;D ;D
I wonder if it still works. it must be still working, because they still did it, in the same way ;D ;D ;D
I also get an email periodically about the stellar foundation giveaway.
I saw that youtube ads still promoting fake ETH giveaway as well.
Basically, those who still fall for these types of scam aren't those who are contented with their stash(portfolios) in cryptocurrency but those who are greedy IMO. I also received some of these messages but pay deaf ears to them because of their fakeness in nature. They(the scammers) always come out with the same methodology in this regard. Most of these giveaway from the social medias aren't legit giveaway as thousands has been victims of defraud. Elon Musk won't do any giveaway anytime from.now as the world is currently experiencing pandemic.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: jossiel on October 02, 2020, 08:58:23 PM
Those scammers will never stop.

As long as the crypto market continues, they will never stop as there's still a lot of batches for newbies to come. I hope that newbies will start to search first even on google to look for verification if those giveaways are real.

There's a big chance that the SEO of a search engine will lead them to this thread.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: jerry0 on October 02, 2020, 08:59:08 PM
Are there risk of you click on the link but do not do anything?  Example malware/keylogger?



Also there is always ppl that get scammed in things like this no matter what right?  Like always a few ppl?



Also, wouldn't those scammers get caught even if they use vpn etc?  And how do ppl like that make the coins they take legit?  Its not like yea i earned x amount of btc doing this etc like they are laundering it obviously somehow right?  And if so, wouldn't they mostly get caught?


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Globb0 on October 02, 2020, 09:00:28 PM
I see these on youtube even though they are supposedly cracking down on crypto

They don't mind if they get paid


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: btc_angela on October 02, 2020, 09:41:54 PM
I see these on youtube even though they are supposedly cracking down on crypto

They don't mind if they get paid

Right, Youtube Google, Twitter they are part of the scams are they allowed it to run in their platform. We can only hope that no one fall victim on another of this type of scams as they have been brought up many times in crypto related media. Do not send any of your crypto to that address before it's too late.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: kawetsriyanto on October 02, 2020, 09:58:09 PM
Only one thing if we know again about the airdrop or giveaway from Elon Musk or even the popular name, they are all fake. So watch out, never be a victim again. Sometimes, the newbies are so easy being trapped. So, never be lured by a sizable gift in an easy way. Moreover, it is a very big reward and easy task, It will be so curious and worrying.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: n0ne on October 02, 2020, 11:50:58 PM
This kind of traps have been getting common on social media platforms. We need to be careful while surfing such kind of information. In recent days YouTube is much used, and in live streaming people are scamming the common people understanding the need for money. As Bitcoin deposit is an easy to do task, people too trying the same and ending with loss. Whatever might be, always look for the information shared from official sources.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: verita1 on October 02, 2020, 11:53:25 PM
All Elon Musk Giveaway are a fake. A few days ago I saw a live broadcast on You Tube with the same scheme. Scammers do not stop creating all these events that harm the crypto spaces. At least we have been able to detect and report them to prevent them from continuing to commit their scams.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Astvile on October 02, 2020, 11:54:27 PM
The best example why many people sees cryptocurrency as a whole scam because of people like this using bitcoin to scam people money, this is one of the reason too why government is against it. Doubler scam has been around with bitcoin for many years, it is not a new method but how come some people still get tricked into these kind of stuff?


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: libert19 on October 03, 2020, 03:30:55 AM
These scams are so obvious, I doubt if anyone even falls for them anymore.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: piebeyb on October 03, 2020, 03:31:45 AM
I almost find this in all crypto groups, they spread spam by sending screenshots using IE to get money from beginners, this also needs special attention why they are so excited to share it, it looks like they get money from beginners who don't know much scammers like this, this thread is important that all beginners should know there is no free money in the crypto world where to claim a prize must send money, so be careful


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: meanwords on October 03, 2020, 03:40:33 AM
They didn't even try at all! it's 1000x worst than the latest Elon fake giveaway. At least the last time it was a real account that that gave the tweet. I don't know how people will fall for this since the last twitter giveaway scam was fairly recent. But what do I know? I've already seen the stupidity of some so there's probably victims already.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: UserU on October 03, 2020, 04:14:21 AM
Leave poor Elon alone. How much can you use his good name and take cryptocurrency from people. Are there really no better candidates?
Why Donald Trump isn't giving out cryptocurrency or Vitalik Buterin himself. But what about Barack Obama the most respected person in the world? Hands off Elon Mask scammers!

Donald's down for the count, no thanks to COVID ;D


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: witcher_sense on October 03, 2020, 09:34:33 AM
These scams are so obvious, I doubt if anyone even falls for them anymore.
There is no such thing as a free lunch even in the cryptocurrency space, which is believed to be an efficient way to become rich in a short time. It is true for some, but many suffered and lost a lot of money instead. These scams are obvious for those who managed to survive the era of fake initial coin offerings, fake airdops and bounty, bitconnect and the like. If something is looking too good to be true, it is created to steal your money, to enrich fraudulent actors. Avoid everything suspiciously good. This is a fundamental rule, which is simple to understand  but hard to obey. Especially, for newcommers who have no such experience, now they are facing a new threat: fake giveaways and fake DeFi projects.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: acroman08 on October 03, 2020, 09:38:18 AM
and here are other Elon Musk fake give away

Fake Tesla-Elon Musk BTC Giveaway. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5241185.0)
[SCAM Alert] Elon Musk Fake Bitcoin, Ethereum Giveaway. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263063.0)
[SCAM Alert] Tesla fake giveaway. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5221373.0)
Elon Musk's Fake 1000 BTC Giveaway - Running Advertisement on Youtube (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5276763.0)
Beware of the fake Elon Musk bitcoin giveaway (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5260213.0)
[Scam Alert] Elon Musk Fake Giveaway. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5210404.0) ..... and many more.

Elon Musk's name has been overused so much in this scam Giveaways that I think only a moron or a newbie would fall for it. but it is still good that these things are being reported/posted here to spread awareness about it.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: imstillthebest on October 03, 2020, 10:13:53 AM
he loves doge ? oh i didnt knew that but if he said that he switch to btc , this giveaway wont still be believable because its simillar to those scam giveaway that asks for crypto .

 if this is a real giveaway they should not ask for return but except for the raffle because tesla car is really expensive but people should verify or investigate first if this is true .

why theres still a scam and hacking on twitter , arent they fix the platform  yet ?


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: tyz on October 03, 2020, 10:14:40 AM
These scams are so obvious, I doubt if anyone even falls for them anymore.

I would say that this assumption is naive. There are always people who fall for such fakes. That is why such fakes will never disappear completely. The trick is to wait for a while after there has been a hype. After that it works again. Of course, the learning rate increases from time to time, but with the little effort of such a fake, it is still profitable if only one or two people fall for it.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Sanitough on October 03, 2020, 10:22:39 AM
That was an obvious scam, I've seen a lot of that in twitter and they have some fake accounts who says they receive the BTC to lure the ignorant users. It cannot be old, though crypto space have slowly evolve, the old scam style is still there and bad news there are still people who fall for that.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: gabbie2010 on October 03, 2020, 10:53:57 AM
All Elon Musk Giveaway are a fake. A few days ago I saw a live broadcast on You Tube with the same scheme. Scammers do not stop creating all these events that harm the crypto spaces. At least we have been able to detect and report them to prevent them from continuing to commit their scams.
You Tube should have taken down those broadcast any of it that are synonymous with scam, I don't know why such is such a live broadcast was even allow by them, I might look real to some newbies and fall for it based on the source of the information, scammers had been devising every available means in scamming people its very unfortunate that crypto is being used to perpetuate this dastardly act.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: finaleshot2016 on October 03, 2020, 01:23:37 PM
All Elon Musk Giveaway are a fake. A few days ago I saw a live broadcast on You Tube with the same scheme. Scammers do not stop creating all these events that harm the crypto spaces. At least we have been able to detect and report them to prevent them from continuing to commit their scams.
You Tube should have taken down those broadcast any of it that are synonymous with scam, I don't know why such is such a live broadcast was even allow by them, I might look real to some newbies and fall for it based on the source of the information, scammers had been devising every available means in scamming people its very unfortunate that crypto is being used to perpetuate this dastardly act.
There are many scammers on the internet, even in popular social media platforms such as YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter, many people are still getting scammed.

Even they are many awareness posts in the socmed, people are still gullible and trying those free giveaways.

People are targetting these popular platforms because they knew that some aren't knowledgeable about different schemes of scamming. This is a disadvantage


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: fiulpro on October 03, 2020, 03:04:00 PM
You don't even get a coffee for free and if people keep falling into scams like these the scammers won't even have to try that hard to create problems like this in the future.

-The social media websites are very weak when it comes to security and safety
-People need to start using strong passwords ex:- avast random password generator
-make sure your two factor is on !

Anyone who have a good knowledge of how this works , they can hack into your account and then use it for many proposes such as these.

- Identity what's a scam
- Stay away from things like these and at the same time remember that there is no easy way to earn money in things like these.
- work hard and educate other people about this too
- spread the word when you find cases such as these.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: worldofcoins on October 03, 2020, 03:53:47 PM
Only one thing if we know again about the airdrop or giveaway from Elon Musk or even the popular name, they are all fake. So watch out, never be a victim again. Sometimes, the newbies are so easy being trapped. So, never be lured by a sizable gift in an easy way. Moreover, it is a very big reward and easy task, It will be so curious and worrying.


First, the amount we're going to pay will be high as compare to the grand prize we're giving them double money and in return, we're gaining nothing.

It happens before by anonymous and I keep thinking about whether this method works and they get bitcoins or not.
I believe many bitcoin users are currently mindful of these sorts of scams. Anyways thanks to informing us I'll let my friends know about it


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: pawanjain on October 03, 2020, 04:34:23 PM
I wonder how is it so easy to scam people online because if you do it on social media then social media platforms have your details and IP addresses so you can be easily tracked.
So how is it that people scam others in such a way. Aren't they afraid of getting caught ?

If I were to scam somebody I would have to create a website and use IP masking techniques and fake IDs to host a website on some server with fake details.
Only then I would fear a little less but people here seem not to be afraid at all while using such lame scamming techniques.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: emrecemsan on October 03, 2020, 04:40:45 PM
I still can't understand how people are so easily swindled. Even someone who doesn't know anything about cryptocurrencies should know that nobody gives you money for nothing.  >:(


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Dsdaq on October 03, 2020, 04:57:50 PM
I don't know why people always go for get rich quick, if one observe from the advert its obvious the amount you send to be double just like that???


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Bitstar_coin on October 03, 2020, 05:01:38 PM
You know sometimes I do wonder why Elon Musk? Because most of this fake giveaways are usually about him, is it that the guy is very generous in giving out stuff online is the reason why scammers tend to use him all the time for ther scamming activities! You always see this fake Elon Musk giveaways link on telegram, very annoying.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: RokokGudangGaram on October 03, 2020, 05:10:40 PM
It will be good if we can address it to all newbies out there as many of them will surely to fall in this kind of tactics even if it is pretty old scam tactics to us. Receiving times two of your capital is pretty interesting especially to newbies who are very greedy in earning a profit without doing anything. I can see also that this tactics are also using different accounts who will likely to reply that they receive x2 of their deposit money just to convince their victim to do the same.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: cheezcarls on October 03, 2020, 05:23:10 PM
Of course it's a filthy scam. Unfortunately for those who are newbies, they are the ones falling victim to this old scam method. I still didn't forget about that massive Twitter hack which involves the accounts of Elon Musk, Changpeng Zhao, Justin Sun and other famous personalities out there.

Maybe these hackers are targeting Elon Musk because not only that he is famous, but this guy is really successful in his projects and making a big difference. Just my own thoughts.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Ridwan Fauzi on October 03, 2020, 05:42:27 PM
I still can't understand how people are so easily swindled. Even someone who doesn't know anything about cryptocurrencies should know that nobody gives you money for nothing.  >:(
Most of user who fall to this trap are newbies, you could understand how their understanding into crypto currency is lack. They only focus to the something that can be earned easily, without any effort. Because, I see many crypto users who says that you can earn a lot of money and getting rich with an instant way and this will encourage the newbies to send the money to the scammer. Perhaps, all newbies to crypto currency should know this forum or the crypto forum out there because if they part of the forum's user they will ask the trust of the event/giveaway first before they send money.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: jossiel on October 03, 2020, 09:37:39 PM
Those scammers will never stop.

As long as the crypto market continues, they will never stop as there's still a lot of batches for newbies to come. I hope that newbies will start to search first even on google to look for verification if those giveaways are real.

There's a big chance that the SEO of a search engine will lead them to this thread.
That's expected that's why we should be careful. The more the price of crypto increases the more they continue to make more ways to take other people's money. It is their way to gain for themselves and they don't have anything to make money. They always take advantage of other people for their own gain.
That indication is real.

Whenever the price of bitcoin goes up, the scammers are taking more chance of doing it because more newbies are coming in to know more about bitcoin. And it's their time to get a try for their possible victims.

It's just bad that there are gullible newbies who have always believed with such.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Flagship11 on October 03, 2020, 10:01:43 PM
These are becoming sooo popular and common these days its almost to expect it if theres big news.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Shasha80 on October 03, 2020, 10:11:34 PM
It's not strange that fake giveaway with old methods like this keep popping up, because there will always be new victims who are deceived.
As long as there are people who want instant money, scammers will continue to cheat in the old way like this. It should be reported that the
twitter account did this, so that scams account would immediately block it. So not many newbies are fooled by this fake Elon Musk giveaway.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Traderbtcc on October 03, 2020, 10:56:15 PM
I wonder if people still fall for this sh*t :D, it's not new anymore, I've seen it several times,fake Elon Musk Twitter giveaways, although it's not the real Elon Musk, because no matter how rich he is I don't he's ever gonna do such kind of giveaway, it's a shame scammers are still using this old method to scam people who are desperate to make more money very fast, one thing I have come to understand is that anything "crypto doubling" ie send us 1 BTC to receive 5 BTC is a pure scam ::).


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Twinkledoe on October 03, 2020, 11:01:22 PM
I wonder if people still fall for this sh*t :D, it's not new anymore, I've seen it several times,fake Elon Musk Twitter giveaways, although it's not the real Elon Musk, because no matter how rich he is I don't he's ever gonna do such kind of giveaway, it's a shame scammers are still using this old method to scam people who are desperate to make more money very fast, one thing I have come to understand is that anything "crypto doubling" ie send us 1 BTC to receive 5 BTC is a pure scam ::).


Only naive users will fall on this trap. A very old strategy of scam and yet there are still individuals who are getting rekt by this scam method. I don't know when will people stop patronising this kind of fraudulent activity. The problem here is that after getting rekt, these users will shout bitcoin as a scam. Such ignorant fools for believing on this trap.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Globb0 on October 04, 2020, 09:29:11 AM
Many many years ago we used to have these double up things on the forum.

I remember the aim was not to be last.

Perhaps they were a bit more legit somehow? there wasn't a identity theft element.



Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Peanutswar on October 04, 2020, 10:29:15 AM
Another fake announcement and giveaway just tp spread their scam. This kind of issue is not new to me because I created a lot of awareness and reports to their website, pages, and tweets. This must be regulated with twitter too because there are a lot of users are encouraged with the use of the cryptocurrency. Also, how can we trust a website that is not reputable and trustworthy? This is too much obvious to the people well there are still some of them falling on this trap and the common target or victims are the newbies who would like to make an investment with the bitcoin and one the problem to is they think this is the bitcoin and other coins runes, invest in this kind of platform and easy money. This is the wrong misconception that we need to avoid and tell to the newbies this is wrong.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: PonZZ on October 04, 2020, 10:58:15 AM
How greedy are some people. I can't believe somebody can be deceived the same way fro the second time.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Malam90 on October 04, 2020, 12:02:31 PM
This is totally scam because Elon Musk didn't publish any give way. Besides this, if you see any airdrop offers to send any amount and they will pay 2x, 3x, it is sure SCAM. We should be aware otherwise we will loss our valuable BTC in their trap. We should avoid greed lest we may fall in the trap.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Yamifoud on October 04, 2020, 12:06:29 PM
How greedy are some people. I can't believe somebody can be deceived the same way fro the second time.
2nd times, 3rd times, it was on an old trick that only greedy souls will fall into this scheme.
I can't imagine how they close their eyes and minds thinking that this is really a doubling money scheme, a Ponzi scheme alike. No, I don't see it was because of ignorance but seeing this how money attracts people and makes them blind to know the reality.

Well, I'd never expected that Elon Muck will do this thing. That is the reality and someone makes use of his name for this kind of activity will definitely think it was fake.



Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: wanted sliter on October 04, 2020, 12:57:05 PM
The conditions for participating in the airdrop of this project are quite interesting. It takes 5BTC or 50ETH, I think no one rich will ever go to donate like that. These hackers should just write: "Those who send me money, I will send back x10 times the value you sent". Only when they do that can those entering this market risk and enrich those scammers.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Chrystora123 on October 04, 2020, 03:00:20 PM
This is totally scam because Elon Musk didn't publish any give way. Besides this, if you see any airdrop offers to send any amount and they will pay 2x, 3x, it is sure SCAM. We should be aware otherwise we will loss our valuable BTC in their trap. We should avoid greed lest we may fall in the trap.
Of course, Elon Musk wouldn't be that easy to hold a giveaway using Bitcoin..  I follow Elon Musk's official twitter account and he has said several times "I've never made a giveaway of any kind".  I hope is that no one else will fall into the trap of that scammers and hopefully, they will quickly get caught by the police because of fraud cases in cyberspace..


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Asuspawer09 on October 04, 2020, 03:20:39 PM

~

You're going to see hundreds of this post or scam on twitter and also even on Facebook, Youtube, and Instagram.

For me, Elon Musk in a giveaway is already common so it already gives scam vibes to many experienced traders and investors so mostly the post is just getting ignore even me.

But this scam never ends because a lot of people still fall in this kind of scam and already scam millions of bitcoin in the community i guess Elon musk really has a big impact because of his opinion about bitcoin and support in the cryptocurrency as the cash of the future. Having a giveaway would I think to make sense if it is done by Elon Musk maybe one time, but seeing a lot of it every time is not normal newbies should know it already.

Sources you could look at:
https://news.bitcoin.com/elon-musk-bitcoin-giveaway-scam-millions-dollars-btc/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHvebNagCF4


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: plvbob0070 on October 04, 2020, 03:30:15 PM
They have been doing this kind of stuff already on different social media platforms and it's not new so I hope no one is really falling for this kind of scam anymore. Again, why would you join a giveaway where you need to send a certain amount of crypto first? Even rich people don't just give money to random people, it's so obvious that it's a scam.

If we see posts like this, it's better to report it before they can actually deceive people, or warn people on those platforms not to believe and that's the simplest way we can do.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: bryant.coleman on October 04, 2020, 04:24:25 PM
At least this time they didn't hacked his Twitter account. These sort of attempts have been very common in Twitter over the past few months. I posted about one such attempt in the "Scam Accusations" subforum sometime ago. If you are unfortunate enough to click the phishing link, then it will take you to a very sophisticated web page. Only the experienced users will understand that everything shown there is faked. These criminals are very innovative.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Baskeyairdrop on October 04, 2020, 07:26:28 PM
Who will fall for this kind of scam? Anyone who falls for it should be caned..
Elon must cannot ask you to pay a certain sum for it to be doubled .. only scammers do. So whatever name they may impersonate or however format they may use, I believe only those that are looking for really quick money will fall for this sought of scam.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Twentyonepaylots on October 04, 2020, 07:42:43 PM
Have you guys seen the advertisement on youtube about Elon Musk fake bitcoin giveaway? I've seen it once I forgot to screenshot it I wasn't so aware coz I'm watching a youtube show but then I before skipped it I saw the "bitcoin address for donation" with QR code like wtf ??? Elon Musk begging for some bitcoins haha there must have been hundreds of this kind of shitty things on the internet just be  wary of it.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: abel1337 on October 04, 2020, 08:17:57 PM
Been experiencing deja vu from this Elon Musk giveaway, I think this kind of method of impersonating famous/rich people to steal from others have been done hundreds of times already, I don't know if people will still fall for this. I really feel bad for those people who are being impersonated and use their identity to lure other people toward their scam schemes. This scheme/method is a bit obvious for people who are aware of this modus, and I think the solution for this is to give people awareness of the risk they are facing if they saw schemes like this.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: uray on October 04, 2020, 08:24:32 PM
Been experiencing deja vu from this Elon Musk giveaway, I think this kind of method of impersonating famous/rich people to steal from others have been done hundreds of times already, I don't know if people will still fall for this.
People are still falling for these scams and so is the reason the scammers keep coming up with the same method, for anyone who is aware of these scams we used to think otherwise but there will be people who keep falling for these especially new investors who are planning to enter the market.

Be careful. And remember that Elon Musk loves Dodgecoin first and foremost.
Elon Musk usually trolls people and that is what he did with the dogecoin tweet and nothing else.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: KingsGambet19 on October 04, 2020, 10:28:51 PM
Possible that the link is malware use to get into the system device or will lead you to a fake site to which a user's important details like wallet addresses will be disclose without knowing that the site is fake or only a phishing site. Anyone must be careful into this kind of trap especially if you have some funds of crypto. One can easily get into phishingn activity if users will not be careful or aware on the activity he will be doing especially in checking URL address to verify if it is the correct site to access.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: ultrloa on October 04, 2020, 10:59:12 PM
This is totally scam because Elon Musk didn't publish any give way. Besides this, if you see any airdrop offers to send any amount and they will pay 2x, 3x, it is sure SCAM. We should be aware otherwise we will loss our valuable BTC in their trap. We should avoid greed lest we may fall in the trap.
Of course, Elon Musk wouldn't be that easy to hold a giveaway using Bitcoin..  I follow Elon Musk's official twitter account and he has said several times "I've never made a giveaway of any kind".  I hope is that no one else will fall into the trap of that scammers and hopefully, they will quickly get caught by the police because of fraud cases in cyberspace..

Unfortunately scammers can easily get away without being traced since those jerks can change their identity and delete the old one which has been busted already, I really hope this kind of tactics will never work and people will know that there's no profit coming from this scam giveaways, people needs to research before going to any trap and always locate the real account holder to verify if the giveaway is legit or not.

But since Elon mush officially stated that then it closed everything and any future giveaway will be tag as scam.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Wawa2013 on October 04, 2020, 11:45:29 PM
I am sure that only people who are greedy and want instant money will become victims of fake giveaway, with old methods
like in the opening post. Because scammers will continue to do this as long as they can get victims, hopefully someone will
report it. This is the importance of education about fraud in the crypto world, so it can reduce the number of victims who were
deceived by this old way.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Kong Hey Pakboy on October 05, 2020, 08:26:21 AM
I am sure that only people who are greedy and want instant money will become victims of fake giveaway, with old methods
like in the opening post. Because scammers will continue to do this as long as they can get victims, hopefully someone will
report it. This is the importance of education about fraud in the crypto world, so it can reduce the number of victims who were
deceived by this old way.

Indeed. People who have been victimized by this kind of fake giveaways and pretending to be a famous person are causes of greediness and ignorance. Other reasons why people are too easy to be fooled or tricked by these obvious scams or fraudulent activities because they are too desperate to earn money to provide their family daily needs.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: ChrisPop on October 05, 2020, 08:32:51 AM
I don't know who falls for these cheap gimmicks these days, but if these scammers continue to spend their time here creating these impostor accounts and posts it means some people get caught in the net.
I think the only thing we can do is to report these ads to twitter mods.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: kotajikikox on October 05, 2020, 09:30:12 AM
On Twitter, there are messages from users who say that Elon Musk sent them twice the amount of BTC.
Be careful. And remember that Elon Musk loves Dodgecoin first and foremost.

https://i.imgur.com/jj40HIa.png


Also, by clicking on the link, you can see the "classic" text:

https://i.imgur.com/9QX0yhe.png
There is too much happening about these Elon Musk give away,i first saw them in Facebook and then in Youtube and the rampant is in telegram when almost from all groups they are spreading those ethereum promising.

But the Shit part is you need to deposit first before gathering your Ethereum prize ,see?only fool can be a victim or those greed that has no concern just to profit .

I don't know who falls for these cheap gimmicks these days, but if these scammers continue to spend their time here creating these impostor accounts and posts it means some people get caught in the net.
I think the only thing we can do is to report these ads to twitter mods.
yups reporting is only what we can help here,and also spreading the scams like what OP did here.
because information becomes more trusted if those who will post are our friends or family.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Traderbtcc on October 10, 2020, 07:19:36 AM
I wonder if people still fall for this sh*t :D, it's not new anymore, I've seen it several times,fake Elon Musk Twitter giveaways, although it's not the real Elon Musk, because no matter how rich he is I don't he's ever gonna do such kind of giveaway, it's a shame scammers are still using this old method to scam people who are desperate to make more money very fast, one thing I have come to understand is that anything "crypto doubling" ie send us 1 BTC to receive 5 BTC is a pure scam ::).

Only naive users will fall on this trap. A very old strategy of scam and yet there are still individuals who are getting rekt by this scam method. I don't know when will people stop patronising this kind of fraudulent activity. The problem here is that after getting rekt, these users will shout bitcoin as a scam. Such ignorant fools for believing on this trap.
Obviously it's only those naive and greedy users that fall for this scam,something similar happened a few months back, when Twitter accounts of Warren buffet, Elon Musk, Bill gates and other top industrial heads was overrun by hackers, who told their followers to send some bitcoin to a particular address, with a promise that they are going to send twice the amount the users send to them, we still saw that alot of greedy people still fell for the scam and lost their bitcoin to the hackers. :'(




Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Yey09 on October 10, 2020, 07:43:40 AM
Why people still ready to believe in it? Why people in twitter are so stupid?


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Bitcoinenthusiasts23 on October 10, 2020, 07:47:01 AM
I just don't understand why Elon Musk himself is used in scams. I saw youtube video the other day in which it was a live stream of elon musk saying stuff and in the background it had a scam giveaway. If that's not surprising enough, it was a frikin' ad!!!


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Crypto_lion on October 10, 2020, 08:44:08 AM
What I find really weird is people still falling for these kind of traos. They just need to think why would a billionaire give away free money ? And if he is indeed giving away free money why would he ask for money in the first place .


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Traderbtcc on October 13, 2020, 02:23:34 AM
Why people still ready to believe in it? Why people in twitter are so stupid?
I won't call them stupid tho, I think they are greedy and just want to make more money in a short period of time, that's why they settled for a doubler, which later turn out to be a scam :D, It seems like they believe those scam "tweet photos" cus its showing that the tweet was made from Elon Musk's verified Twitter account, so you can't  blame them for falling for the trap tho, since his filthy rich they believe he can really giveaway 1 bitcoin to everyone that's sends him 0.5 btc , which he might be able to do, but he will never do that.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 03:07:34 AM
What I find really weird is people still falling for these kind of traos. They just need to think why would a billionaire give away free money ? And if he is indeed giving away free money why would he ask for money in the first place .

There is no cure for stupidity and foolishness. Most of these individuals are too greedy to understand that this is a scam and that is why they are falling for it. Ironically there are too many people on Twitter who fall under this category.
That is pretty tragic in my opinion, stupid people who do not know any better are forgivable in some degree but if you combine it with greed, then that is another story. Twitter is a cesspool of inbred, idiots and SJWs, if you ever want to confirm a news, you can go to Twitter to check and the opinions on it is the opposite of the story which is a pretty good fake news checker.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: budi691 on October 14, 2020, 03:18:27 PM
news like this has been repeated and has always been a topic of conversation, I suggest for now with many scams it's better to avoid news like this, Elon Musk is a rich man but it's not easy for him to share some of his wealth for free


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Raflesia on October 14, 2020, 03:33:05 PM
Only one thing if we know again about the airdrop or giveaway from Elon Musk or even the popular name, they are all fake. So watch out, never be a victim again. Sometimes, the newbies are so easy being trapped. So, never be lured by a sizable gift in an easy way. Moreover, it is a very big reward and easy task, It will be so curious and worrying.


The point is, don't ever follow the links that are shared in the images that are spread on telegram because the scamer there always acts by spreading in several groups, but the elun musk giveaway is already popular and I don't know whether this trick has stuck or not because of what I know that doubling in the name of elun musk doesn't make sense.
In fact, I'm really sick of seeing pictures with the word elon musk and including the link.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: mezzaluna on October 14, 2020, 03:36:01 PM
On Twitter, there are messages from users who say that Elon Musk sent them twice the amount of BTC.
Be careful. And remember that Elon Musk loves Dodgecoin first and foremost.

https://i.imgur.com/jj40HIa.png


Also, by clicking on the link, you can see the "classic" text:

https://i.imgur.com/9QX0yhe.png

Its actually quite nice because its true that Elon is interested in Cryptocurrencies BUT in no way he will be giving away something like that wildly. News revolving around Elon are always backed up by some legitimacy by showing proof that he actually said it in public since that is practically a give away. Nobody should just believe something on the Internet just because its within an article pertaining some famous person.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Nhor1011 on October 14, 2020, 03:38:20 PM
Social media is frequently used by the hackers and scammers because it was so easy for them to attract millions of people. And many people are greedy to earn much money in an instant and effortless way but sadly at the end they will earn nothing instead they will lose what they have already. So always "be careful" the word that always remind everyone specially for the newbie in online world or even in crypto space.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: matchi2011 on October 14, 2020, 03:45:27 PM
news like this has been repeated and has always been a topic of conversation, I suggest for now with many scams it's better to avoid news like this, Elon Musk is a rich man but it's not easy for him to share some of his wealth for free
As long as there are greedy people who ae not mindful with truthfulness of this scam giveaways there are always scammers that will continue using this settings to scam out.

Always best to look for the Hardaway in terms of investment, never to entertained shortcuts as most of the time it will only leads you to a disaster, you are always prone to scams and risking your investment.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Jaered on October 15, 2020, 05:13:57 AM
This is a regularly used format for scammers. Why people still fall for it every time is beyond. Only reason I can say is greed. Greed can make one do extraordinary stuff. And for these scammers to be perpetuating it means there are still victims out there, if not they would have stopped


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Sirait on October 15, 2020, 10:17:50 AM
This is a regularly used format for scammers. Why people still fall for it every time is beyond. Only reason I can say is greed. Greed can make one do extraordinary stuff. And for these scammers to be perpetuating it means there are still victims out there, if not they would have stopped
greed usually belongs to the rich. those who have more money will definitely have Bitcoin to join a giveaway like this.

forever the scammers will always come up with their newest concept, this time they take advantage of the famous name Elon, for sure in the future they will take advantage of other big names.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: MCobian on October 15, 2020, 11:16:15 AM
It turns out that there are still many people who are deceived by old methods like this, even though there has been a lot of education related
to this kind of fraud. Still, there are people who believe that by sending a certain amount of Bitcoin, they will be given a double amount of Bitcoin.
Maybe those who are victims of people who want instant money, even though nowadays to get money you have to work hard.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Debonaire217 on October 15, 2020, 01:35:07 PM
If I am not mistaken, these Fake Elon Musk Giveaways are also live on Youtube Advertisements. I wonder why they are not banning these ads but it is explicitly misleading that normal people could be attracted when they saw Elon Musk, a highly reputable businessman promoting some giveaways in bitcoin.

One other thing I saw is with regards to Vitalik, even though he's not saying anything about a giveaway, the video was surrounded by tags regarding investment returns. I think YouTube themselves should be aware of this and filter the ads themselves instead of waiting for reports by the viewers.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: 1GUARDIAN on October 15, 2020, 02:49:53 PM
I'm not at all surprised that there are still people who agree to send their bitcoins to scammers posing as some famous person. Are none of them aware that this is a common swindle? Who can even believe that Elon Musk will distribute bitcoins for free?

The only excuse for their stupidity is the fact that Elon Musk's page was hacked and this message could look real.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Dsdaq on October 15, 2020, 04:23:45 PM
Most of the people that get caught on the kind of giveaways are mostly greedy. Because why will someone just like double your money for you, this is not the first of it kind and I think this will not be the last. Sometimes we need to be contended with the little we have not too greedy and be safe.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Sendoku on October 15, 2020, 05:13:24 PM
It surprises me how someone is sophisticated enough to use BTC yet falls into this kinda trap


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Zemomtum on October 15, 2020, 10:17:40 PM
Only the greedy will fall to this crapsy scam. Is Elon Musk a charity, sometimes, when it look too good to be true, think twice because most probably, it is always


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: DoublerHunter on October 15, 2020, 10:30:57 PM
If I am not mistaken, these Fake Elon Musk Giveaways are also live on Youtube Advertisements. I wonder why they are not banning these ads but it is explicitly misleading that normal people could be attracted when they saw Elon Musk, a highly reputable businessman promoting some giveaways in bitcoin.

One other thing I saw is with regards to Vitalik, even though he's not saying anything about a giveaway, the video was surrounded by tags regarding investment returns. I think YouTube themselves should be aware of this and filter the ads themselves instead of waiting for reports by the viewers.
^ Definitely right, Youtube is very unfair, the banned sometimes crypto but now they let this kind of activity in their community. Probably if the number of reports was increased, Youtube will automatically this kind of trap. I have assumed that they will not easily track activity like that, it needs for people to hit the button 'report' before they will be taking action. Nevertheless, the scam attempt was the same strategy on Twitter hack that fews months ago happened, bitcoin doubling is really sucked.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Alucard1 on October 15, 2020, 10:44:59 PM
It is another obvious scam on twitter, we can always see posts like this every day I wonder if there are still some people who fall for this scam. asking for bitcoins and promising that they will make it double or higher in return is an old trick of every scammer and very well known by many people, maybe only newbies will be the victim for this because of having lack of knowledge. I was a victim of this scam before when I was a beginner, thankfully I just lost a little amount of bitcoin which 0.001. I don't have much experience and knowledge at that time so I easily believe the offer.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: jossiel on October 15, 2020, 11:24:40 PM
I often see this message on telegram that the binance giveaway or elon mush giveaway bitcoin or etherum but I never tried it because I believe this is a fake message, this is an old way to get money easily by persuasion to double our money.
If you the same message in Telegram coming out from a known personality, don't actually believe them. Telegram is a den for most scammers for these giveaways and the victims that they're getting are those that don't do research.

Doubling money in a short time, right?

Don't send them any amount, they are giving a fake promise. You don't earn double with your money without doing anything or by just sending it to them.

unfortunately we can't jail these criminals
They can, as long as there's enough proof that has been given to the authorities.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Genemind on October 15, 2020, 11:36:04 PM
This is a classic scammer's approach, promising double of what you have sent. I wonder how people fall for it since this had happened several times in crypto space. Social media accounts being hacked and promising giveaways. Only greedy people falls for it. There is no easy money in this world.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Dewi89 on October 16, 2020, 04:19:29 PM
I often see this type of scam using the name Elon Musk, why do people fall into the bitcoin doubler scam because it's a classic and illogical scam, avoid anything related to scams on Twitter, telegram and any media.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Globb0 on October 16, 2020, 05:15:03 PM
They also use Richard Branson its psychological, anybody people think is a success is easy to use. Anothr one Martin Lewis..

They want a piece of that! as mentioned repeatedly greed. But a fool and his money is easily parted.




Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: djarah on October 16, 2020, 05:19:54 PM
This crazy shit wont stop


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: CASTIEL05 on October 16, 2020, 09:53:42 PM
After all what happened in twitter fake giveaway, people should be learned already that giveaways by popular people can be fake and invented only of scammers. However, many people are still falling into this scheme since they don`t made further research. As long as they see the name, they think that it is a genuine airdrop. People who fall into fake giveaways have no further understanding to the world of crypto space. They only see it as earnings but they ignore their potential loss.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: goldade on October 16, 2020, 10:05:50 PM
It is interesting to know that there are still obvious scams like this. Why would anyone want to give out free bitcoins especially only after you've deposited a certain amount of coins. If he was that generous, he should have given the coins out to people without asking for something first.
I believe however that people who fall for scams like this are those who didn't bother to make research to confirm its authenticity. They are only naive looking for cheap ways to make fast money. It is only well deserved if they got scammed.
One advice, don't fall for these obvious scams especially those that use a prominent person's account. Most times, they are hacked accounts


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: Oceat on October 16, 2020, 10:08:29 PM
Seriously, who would fall for this? Always remember if it is too good to be true it's probably a scam. I wonder if people still fall for this since it's too common nowadays to see this kind of typical marketing. This kind of marketing is rampant everywhere in any social media that's why I don't believe to any of those giveaways they were talking. I found it a waste of time when I happen to meet one.


Title: Re: Another Elon Musk fake giveaway.
Post by: LogitechMouse on October 17, 2020, 01:13:41 AM
This kind of trend that scammers are using will never end.
As long as there are investors getting scammed to this kind of trick then scammers will not stop doing it.

What we need right now is time. Time for us to learn which are scam and which are not. Time to know tricks that scammers are using to scam investors. Sad to say, investors are too ignorant therefore they are the ones who easily falls to these kind of traps. I hope that there will be a time that no investors will be falling to these kind of tricks again.