Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: PaperWallet on October 17, 2020, 12:34:18 PM



Title: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: PaperWallet on October 17, 2020, 12:34:18 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.



Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Yey09 on October 17, 2020, 12:36:18 PM
Exchanges are giving mass adoption for the world. Its a pretty easy entry point for newbies and they are buying a lot of crypto ads in some countries to share information about crypto for the ordinary people


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Twinkledoe on October 17, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
Exchanges are giving mass adoption for the world. Its a pretty easy entry point for newbies and they are buying a lot of crypto ads in some countries to share information about crypto for the ordinary people

I think the OP is seeing it differently. Exchanges are promoting crypto adoption as you said they open doors to newbies and of course to old timers as well. The more exchanges we have, the wider options that the community can go to. But only few of them are to be trusted as a lot of them will screw the users' funds.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Cointxz on October 17, 2020, 12:41:43 PM
I partly agree on this because most of the crypto exchange even the famous and not are not regulated. They can do anything they want like manipulation or faking volumes because no ones watching that's why I partly agree. But whales on Bitcoins like Chinese and other Asians plays big role on manipulating the price. They are controlling the market price after they enter in a lower price. These guys have group like elite groups and they are doing a scheduled buy/sell on a certain coin and one of them is BTC.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: 20kevin20 on October 17, 2020, 01:04:02 PM
I partly agree on this because most of the crypto exchange even the famous and not are not regulated. They can do anything they want like manipulation or faking volumes because no ones watching that's why I partly agree. But whales on Bitcoins like Chinese and other Asians plays big role on manipulating the price. They are controlling the market price after they enter in a lower price. These guys have group like elite groups and they are doing a scheduled buy/sell on a certain coin and one of them is BTC.
I don't think there is any way to prevent manipulation imo. Lots of markets are manipulated by the wealthy.. Bitcoin is/will be more or less as well.

No matter how free we are, there'll always be 1 guy who will want to compete and be ahead of you if they see an earning opportunity in it. As you have already probably seen, there are companies that have started to purchase massive amounts of BTC. Large investments come from large names, and they have more influence & control over the markets than we do. We'll never have the "market innocence" Bitcoin had a decade ago. That's been long gone since whales appeared.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Lucius on October 17, 2020, 01:10:51 PM
One can say whatever one wants (badly) about crypto exchanges, but the fact is that these companies are the entry point into the world of cryptocurrencies for most of those who own them today. On the other hand, it is undeniable that these companies are not regulated, as is the case with banks - but when the authorities want to intervene and regulate this business sector, most crypto users oppose it because it threatens their privacy and reduces Bitcoin decentralization.

When it comes to price manipulation, crypto exchanges certainly have a chance to pull certain moves, but does anyone expect to say Coinbase dump about 1 million BTC it has in its possession, buy gold for that money and then live long and happily without any repercussions? It is something that belongs to the conspiracy theory, but one that has a sci-fi sign, and is not realistically achievable in the real world.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Bttzed03 on October 17, 2020, 01:29:48 PM
Let's say for example there are no exchanges, only P2P trades and I am from a country that nobody sells BTC for our local fiat. For me to purchase, I would have to buy USD from our local bank (and I'm telling you it's not easy because these are regulated. I might not be allowed.) then transfer that to the sellers account. Can you imagine the difficulty of that? How do you think mass adoption be achieved through that process? Exchanges have its cons buy it does provide convenience. Heck, there are probably more than 80% here who bought their first BTC thru exchanges.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Lhaine on October 17, 2020, 02:41:40 PM
Exchanges are giving mass adoption for the world. Its a pretty easy entry point for newbies and they are buying a lot of crypto ads in some countries to share information about crypto for the ordinary people

Exchnage is also one of the big reason why we have mass adoption of crypto currency. I can prove that with our local exchange this help people to make easy way to buy crypto currency  in the choice they wanted and no hassle for them to buy. I can't imagine how people are able to buy crypto here without risk if there is no exchange that will help them.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: kryptqnick on October 17, 2020, 02:55:15 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.


I don't think exchanges should be blamed. Most people use them, and they can be pretty useful. They are a normal part of the ecosystem. What's preventing mass adoption, then? Well, I think one of these things is that Bitcoin is too new and different from other money, and people don't normally like changes unless the current situation is terrible. Another thing is the authorities and banks not being a fan of what threatens them and having tons of resources to harm it. Regulations, statements and actions by them can be undermining. Finally, I think Bitcoin has serious problems with adoption: it won't be able to handle all the transactions if it comes. So for now we should focus on making adoption hypothetically possible, at least.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: hatshepsut93 on October 17, 2020, 03:46:26 PM
This is just a conspiracy theory, you show zero proof that exchanges are manipulating the price, yet you state it as a proven fact and draw some conclusions from it. It's not even possible, because you'd need to have all major exchanges conspire together, which is extremely unlikely to happen. There's a simple explanation for Bitcoin's bubbles - they just happen because Bitcoin is still new, so there are waves of enthusiasm and subsequent corrections.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Insanerman on October 17, 2020, 03:56:39 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation.

Maybe you are pertaining to exchanges that are centralized or has a control with the market. Even companies that holds huge amount of bitcoin or any decentralized cryptocurrency cannot control the market nor manipulate its price. Well, honestly, they somehow can, but not a total pump nor a total dump especially if the crypto and exchange is decentralized. Better study the difference of those first before being settled on the false ideology of exchanges manipulating prices.

Fun fact: exchanges plays a huge role in crypto space. Do you think there would be a BTC nor it would have anyworth if there wouldn't be an exchanger that can swap BTC to USD or any currency?


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: PaperWallet on October 17, 2020, 04:31:52 PM
It is definitely not a conspiracy, and was proven in several academic papers. I am not here to fully explain the cryptocurrency subject from the beginning or give any proof, it's not my job. Those interested can check it out, and this is not the subject of this thread. People denying this is not good either.

But I agree on the other hand that we don't know how to do without exchanges. At some point you have to buy bitcoin and you need an exchange. But it's hard to enter the space without being manipulated. You should definitely take this into account when analysing the right time to get in.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: The Cryptovator on October 17, 2020, 04:47:56 PM
I wouldn't agree with OP, exchange really isn't preventing bitcoin mass adoption. If there is no exchange then it would be quite complicated to deal with bitcoin IMO. I know exchange is responsible for the pump dump, we can say it's a shady business, but not prevention. Exchanges make it easier to spend your bitcoin, for example, already given by you. Price manipulation and preventing adoption shouldn't judge by the same criterion. But I have to admit, if exchange avoids such as shady manipulation then we might see more bitcoin adoption.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: TedMosby on October 17, 2020, 06:17:50 PM
IMO, they are not preventing bitcoin mass adoption.
more adopter, more fish for them.
they help us to exchange bitcoin into fiat.
they help the community by spreading and promoting crypto to new users.
they educate us about crypto as well. for example binance academy.

the one who preventing bitcoin mass adoption is hodler.
who has a bunch of bitcoin and do nothing with it.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: CryptopreneurBrainboss on October 17, 2020, 06:26:16 PM
This is just a conspiracy theory, you show zero proof that exchanges are manipulating the price...

What other proves do we need when just by barely observing the market it's very obvious some manipulation are ongoing. Talk about inside trading, if altcoins get traded by insiders with valuable information on some positive development on the project like new exchange listing, major news etc talk more of bitcoin that can be easily dumped or pumped by the whales which obviously exchanges are part of. Tether can be printed from thin air and used to buy the bottom occasionally probably pushing the price upwards. Exchanges like bitfinex is guilty of this.

Even companies that holds huge amount of bitcoin or any decentralized cryptocurrency cannot control the market nor manipulate its price.

Seems you're not actively observing the development reported to be ongoing in the market if that's all you have to say. The so called DeFi projects exposed the amount of manipulation ongoing in the industry as coins were constantly pumped and dumped yet they were decentralized. Sushi token as a perfect example ssw the founder (A whale of course) dump all his tokens on the market and it cost a total outrage in the market which is yet to recover upto this very moment of press.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Bitcoinislife09 on October 17, 2020, 07:02:08 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.



It's the other way around bitcoin exchange is a big part of bitcoin adaptation as it helps a lot in converting and a lot of transactions in a lot of places in the world. It's not preventing bitcoin mass adaptation because it uses bitcoin and cryptocurrency. It helps people to trade in cryptocurrency or bitcoin. Using these exchanges allows you to trade and make a profit. I also don't think that exchanges manipulate the value of bitcoin or cryptocurrency because the price in the market depends on the community. With the supply and demand in the market, price manipulation is caused by whales that have a big supply of bitcoin. Continue to use bitcoin makes adaptation of bitcoin easier for a lot of people.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: DoublerHunter on October 17, 2020, 07:14:37 PM
~snip~
And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.
^ I don't think if that is the main reason, but I did not see that exchange manipulating the price. It could be a whale or big-time multi investors that can afford to play the market with their own money. If you mean that this is preventing the mass adoption of bitcoin, I don't think so. If you have been noticed the Defi system now has massive growth, you make wonder to them, the fact that these all crypto exchanges that probably a big help.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: DooMAD on October 17, 2020, 07:30:27 PM
You can try to blame it on the middlemen, but it's their customers who are handing them all the power.  Given the choice between being responsible for your own keys or taking the convenient option and getting someone else to do it for them, some people opt for the lazy route.  Regular traders aren't in a position to rely on P2P/OTC trades because the transaction fees would be too costly and confirmation times would be slower than they're accustomed to, so they're effectively forced to leave funds on exchanges (until the technology for truly decentralised trading improves, anyway).  

It's not as black-and-white as merely labelling exchanges the "bad guy".  As with most things in Bitcoin, there's a little more nuance to it than that.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: 2double0 on October 17, 2020, 08:03:16 PM
Companies fear of btc's volatility taking place any time and they ask their middlemen to sell/keep it and pay USD to them. This increases sales of btc as such companies won't be less in number and will continue this. They shouldn't be blamed when they just accept btc on paper but not in reality? Exchanges are bringing in more convenience here by working as a middlemen, so marking them as a 'stop' against the adoption part is not so clever.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: CarnagexD on October 17, 2020, 09:41:25 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.


You're seeing it wrongly my friend, exchanges are really good at engaging/enticing people to invest in crypto, but it doesn't mean that the veterans cannot invest in it anymore. With it's immense price, people can definitely get pressured to use it as a payment method but honestly speaking, it's not a coin anymore but a trading asset, and it shohld only be intended to be used for the same manner, we have a few people here believing that bitcoin will beat fiat but with its current price and the current demand for fiat cash, it would be hard to implement such measure even if it would take a long time.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Baofeng on October 17, 2020, 10:00:32 PM
Ever since bitcoin started to gain some 'notoriety', or at least from $.1-$1k, there have been reported of manipulation already from exchange, if they are guilty and this is the one preventing bitcoin from getting adopted, then by that time, we won't see a year-to-year dramatic rise of the price. But what happens? A lot of exchanges started to pump up and as a result bitcoin grow to even hit all time high at almost $20k in 2017? And still up to this point, it is growing massively, so I don't buy the argument that exchanges are one factors that prevents it from being mass adopted.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: verita1 on October 17, 2020, 11:06:23 PM
Peter Schiff is a great defender of gold, he will not allow Bitcoin to be included in his company. The simple fact that he has admitted an intermediary to process payments in Bitcoin is because surely his clients have demanded to pay with Bitcoin. The other point about the exchanges they are the first to wish a massive adoption of Bitcoin, in fact the exchanges compete with offering users to earn more with their Bitcoin and crypto.
Although giving the benefit of the doubt as in any business, not everything is revealed.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: hatshepsut93 on October 17, 2020, 11:11:25 PM
What other proves do we need when just by barely observing the market it's very obvious some manipulation are ongoing. Talk about inside trading, if altcoins get traded by insiders with valuable information on some positive development on the project like new exchange listing, major news etc talk more of bitcoin that can be easily dumped or pumped by the whales which obviously exchanges are part of. Tether can be printed from thin air and used to buy the bottom occasionally probably pushing the price upwards. Exchanges like bitfinex is guilty of this.

OP is talking about Bitcoin, not altcoins. Of course altcoins  are manipulated due to their centralized nature and low volumes and generally they are very scammy. But no one can easily manipulate Bitcoin, it's way too big already. Even Tether, whatever is going on with it, can't influence Bitcoin in the long run.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: CryptopreneurBrainboss on October 18, 2020, 04:36:22 AM
OP is talking about Bitcoin, not altcoins. Of course altcoins  are manipulated due to their centralized nature and low volumes and generally they are very scammy. But no one can easily manipulate Bitcoin, it's way too big already. Even Tether, whatever is going on with it, can't influence Bitcoin in the long run.

Well the altcoin explanation was used to stressed my point. The fact is the exchanges can manipulate the market by creating either bullish or bearish scenarios although that's not a regular occurrence. Few days back, OKEx exchange suspended crypto withdrawal as one of the key holders was missing which was later discovered that Star Xu got taken by the police. Bitcoin saw a flash panic sell that dipped the price from $11.5k to $11.2k although some recovery has occured.

Exchanges can easily cause panic in the market and this isn't the first such scenario has be observed. Few years back, Bitcoin suffers wild weekend after yet another Tether scandal (https://coinrivet.com/bitcoin-suffers-wild-weekend-after-yet-another-tether-scandal/amp/). There are many more events like this that the market has experience some downtrend as a result of a particular exchange.

The bitcoin market though is getting nature as not all exchange related event have an impact on the market that easily but their influence can still be felt.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: dificanovi on October 18, 2020, 06:13:22 AM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.



most crypto exchanges also often manipulate market prices so that they can make a profit and so that investors like the exchange so that there are many buying and selling transactions.
For companies that are not too big and have little capital, it is very risky if they make payments with bitcoin because if there is a decrease in the price of bitcoin in the crypto market it will get a loss.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: davis196 on October 18, 2020, 06:20:48 AM
You are kinda wrong with this theory.Price manipulation in the cryptocurrency markets cannot stop or prevent mass crypto adoption,because it has nothing to do with cryptocurrency adoption.
Crypto exchanges aren't guilty for the KYC policies,which are a regulatory requirement.They aren't guilty for the fact that fiat/BTC transactions are still very risky and expensive(with higher risk comes a higher price/fee).
I know that crypto trading platforms are not perfect and still have lots of flaws,but they can't be blamed for stopping a process,that could potentially bring them more revenue.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: bitterguy28 on October 18, 2020, 06:49:39 AM
Exchanges are giving mass adoption for the world. Its a pretty easy entry point for newbies and they are buying a lot of crypto ads in some countries to share information about crypto for the ordinary people

I think the OP is seeing it differently. Exchanges are promoting crypto adoption as you said they open doors to newbies and of course to old timers as well. The more exchanges we have, the wider options that the community can go to. But only few of them are to be trusted as a lot of them will screw the users' funds.
another idea is that OP wanted to put the blame in exchange regarding manipulation of prices in which legit exchange can't do because users are eyeing on them.
But in some point it is true because the exchange has a good part in which the bitcoin will be adopted together with altcoins.
and also promoting of bitcoin is not only from exchange but from us also.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Lucius on October 18, 2020, 04:15:37 PM
This is just a conspiracy theory, you show zero proof that exchanges are manipulating the price, yet you state it as a proven fact and draw some conclusions from it. It's not even possible, because you'd need to have all major exchanges conspire together, which is extremely unlikely to happen. There's a simple explanation for Bitcoin's bubbles - they just happen because Bitcoin is still new, so there are waves of enthusiasm and subsequent corrections.

You don’t necessarily need all the crypto-exchange to unite in some evil intent - we all know it’s enough for Coinbase to go offline for some time or that Binance stop working for a few hours, the price drops instantly. At that point, someone can start buying BTC and just wait for the right moment to sell at a much higher price when things return to normal.

Behind all these operations are ordinary people, and we all know that today the information has the highest price - the one who knows that tomorrow the price of BTC will fall 5% is in a much bigger advantage than you or me. If you ask me crypto exchanges have too much power in their hands, and they behave no differently than ordinary banks - but fiat and crypto are two different worlds, many have unfortunately not yet learned that.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: pixie85 on October 18, 2020, 04:55:16 PM
So OP thinks it's the exchanges that control the market and they own all the coins deposited by users and play around with them in a great ruse to buy all physical gold and stuff and then crash the price of bitcoin because they think it's worthless.

They build their multimillion dollar businesses on something they don't believe in and don't care about. It was all a big hoax :D


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: bryant.coleman on October 18, 2020, 05:11:48 PM
I can't agree with OP. There are hundreds, if not thousands of cryptocurrency exchanges around the world. In order to manipulate the prices, the whales need to rig all of these exchanges. It is very impractical. They may be able to do that with some of the less known shitcoins, which are traded in two or three exchanges. But I don't think that it is possible to rig the trading with the top-10 or top-20 cryptocurrencies.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: DooMAD on October 18, 2020, 07:34:19 PM
Maybe OP got their wires crossed somewhere and has the wrong impression.  Exchanges have definitely been known to falsify their declared volume, because it's quite easy for them to manipulate that.  But I don't think they're in a position to manipulate the price.  That would be a far more challenging feat.

There were certainly times in the past where price manipulation was viable.  Take Gox's "Willy Bot", for instance.  But now, since many regular traders are using bots of their own, the impact is diminished.  The dangers of HFT in the fiat world are being replicated on exchanges, though.  That is a problem overall.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: shield132 on October 18, 2020, 08:34:40 PM
One can say whatever one wants (badly) about crypto exchanges, but the fact is that these companies are the entry point into the world of cryptocurrencies for most of those who own them today. On the other hand, it is undeniable that these companies are not regulated, as is the case with banks - but when the authorities want to intervene and regulate this business sector, most crypto users oppose it because it threatens their privacy and reduces Bitcoin decentralization.

When it comes to price manipulation, crypto exchanges certainly have a chance to pull certain moves, but does anyone expect to say Coinbase dump about 1 million BTC it has in its possession, buy gold for that money and then live long and happily without any repercussions? It is something that belongs to the conspiracy theory, but one that has a sci-fi sign, and is not realistically achievable in the real world.
I agree with you. It's paradox when people request bitcoin exchanges to be regulated and at the same time they still want to stay anonymous and complain that regulations will affect their privacy.
Btw the problem is that exchanges really try bad things. For example, binance bought coinmarketcap, the major cryptocurrency price checker. So, I think it's unfair agreement and is not good for cryptocurrencies.

But, I don't agree with the subject of this topic. Exchanges aren't preventing bitcoin mass adoption, I think it's even in their interest to see bitcoin mass adopted and get as much customers as possible.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: hatshepsut93 on October 18, 2020, 08:52:20 PM
Well the altcoin explanation was used to stressed my point. The fact is the exchanges can manipulate the market by creating either bullish or bearish scenarios although that's not a regular occurrence. Few days back, OKEx exchange suspended crypto withdrawal as one of the key holders was missing which was later discovered that Star Xu got taken by the police. Bitcoin saw a flash panic sell that dipped the price from $11.5k to $11.2k although some recovery has occured.

Exchanges can easily cause panic in the market and this isn't the first such scenario has be observed. Few years back, Bitcoin suffers wild weekend after yet another Tether scandal (https://coinrivet.com/bitcoin-suffers-wild-weekend-after-yet-another-tether-scandal/amp/). There are many more events like this that the market has experience some downtrend as a result of a particular exchange.

The bitcoin market though is getting nature as not all exchange related event have an impact on the market that easily but their influence can still be felt.

These 2-3% drops are irrelevant in the long run, and even in a few weeks everyone will forget about OKEx. Even if exchanges contribute to some price movements, like doing manipulation or just because of their influence, they still aren't the only factor that makes Bitcoin volatile, and it's probably one of the least common reasons why BTC price goes up or down. So, they don't prevent mass adoption by causing volatility, like OP says.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Shasha80 on October 18, 2020, 10:01:37 PM
I don't agree that exchanges prevent Bitcoin mass adoption from happening, because many people are buying Bitcoin on exchanges
for the first time. So exchanges helped many newbies buy Bitcoin, I am one of the people who bought Bitcoin for the first time on
exchanges. And exchanges help the crypto community to promote and spread Bitcoin. So to say that exchanges are guilty of preventing
Bitcoin mass adoption is unlikely.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: ralle14 on October 18, 2020, 10:21:36 PM
If those are the actual plans of bitcoin exchanges isn't it going to be harder for them to manipulate the price in the future since more people are starting to accumulate their bitcoin stash as well. Exchanges might have the power to do something like that but at the same time it would also hurt their business if they do decide to pull those kind of actions.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: tanjiran on October 18, 2020, 10:35:57 PM
If those are the actual plans of bitcoin exchanges isn't it going to be harder for them to manipulate the price in the future since more people are starting to accumulate their bitcoin stash as well. Exchanges might have the power to do something like that but at the same time it would also hurt their business if they do decide to pull those kind of actions.
Moreover, users will definitely prefer an exchange with a more reasonable transaction fee, if the service and security are the same, surely the cheaper one will be chosen. This is a market competition between exchanges. DEX also comes with a more effective system, which is why DEX and defi so popular these days. what is clear, bitcoin has more advantages related to conventional transactions. With all the advantages it gets, I think it's worth the level of security, speed, and transparency in this system.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: FinneysTrueVision on October 18, 2020, 11:13:40 PM
I think the stringent KYC requirements are far more harmful. The unbanked population are the ones most likely to use bitcoin as a payment method but they have very few ways for them to acquire it without having to jump through hoops.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: avikz on October 19, 2020, 05:55:51 AM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment. There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.



Lol! You can definitely have your own version of thinking process against an establishment. However, exchanges are indeed doing great in mass adoption! If exchanges weren't there, I want to know how would a newbie buy bitcoin? That newbie would have to find a miner who is willing to sell off the bitcoin. For big corporates, it makes sense because they buy bitcoin in bulk so they would want to eliminate the middle-man. However, for a common man, it is extremely difficult to find and negotiate with a miner directly. Exchanges are filling this exact gap! If exchanges aren't part of the game, the game wouldn't exist!


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Lucius on October 19, 2020, 09:23:47 AM
Btw the problem is that exchanges really try bad things. For example, binance bought coinmarketcap, the major cryptocurrency price checker. So, I think it's unfair agreement and is not good for cryptocurrencies.

I don’t see what Binance could do through CMC, other than perhaps better positioning their company on the crypto exchange list that is present there, but nothing more than that. The only thing I noticed after that acquisition is that the CMC page has become much slower to load, regardless of the browser and device I use.

It is in human nature to do bad things, so even strictly regulated banks can do very bad things, let's just take the example of the HSBC or Danske Bank scandals that are worth hundreds of billions of dollars. And anyone who expects transparency and honesty in the crypto sector, which is still a very wild place, is at least completely unrealistic.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: arwin100 on October 19, 2020, 10:02:28 AM
Btw the problem is that exchanges really try bad things. For example, binance bought coinmarketcap, the major cryptocurrency price checker. So, I think it's unfair agreement and is not good for cryptocurrencies.

I don’t see what Binance could do through CMC, other than perhaps better positioning their company on the crypto exchange list that is present there, but nothing more than that. The only thing I noticed after that acquisition is that the CMC page has become much slower to load, regardless of the browser and device I use.

Binance for sure do some studies before buying CMC since for sure they will not waste their money for just nothing we know how big the traffic got by CMC and for sure they will earn more by the listing,advertising and other more from that. I see that this is a good move for them since it could give binance a good revenue and exposure.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Alucard1 on October 19, 2020, 10:24:24 AM
I get your point OP because every exchange handles the price of every cryptocurrency to be traded but for me, it wont change the fact that the exchange is one of our ways to know more about cryptocurrency, it is really important for every people who are having an asset and want to trade it with other cryptocurrency or USD, the fact that they are doing it, I can say that they are not preventing cryptocurrency for mass adoption but rather promoting it.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Vishnu.Reang on October 19, 2020, 11:05:29 AM
Without exchanges such as Binance and Huobi, how many of us would have taken cryptocurrency seriously? There are Dex sites, but they have liquidity issues. Peer to peer platforms such as Localbitcoins are plagued with fraud and cheating. So where the users will go, if they want to exchange some of their fiat to cryptocurrency? It will be ungraceful to say that the cryptocurrency exchanges are having a negative impact.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: kotajikikox on October 19, 2020, 11:38:01 AM
Exchanges are giving mass adoption for the world. Its a pretty easy entry point for newbies and they are buying a lot of crypto ads in some countries to share information about crypto for the ordinary people
Sorry but it looks like you are answering in different way because that is not what OP is Pointing,But anyway there are no such thing as easy in crypto,Yeah they can buy Tons of Ads in any place but the question is would the people will response in their advertising?it needs to be true and legit before people starts to adopt and invest.
But exchange is particular specially those legit has no care about the adoption because people still use their service even the bitcoin is not that adopted by the world.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Fundamentals Of on October 19, 2020, 12:24:26 PM
There will always be market makers. There will always be whales. There are also manipulators in the market. Exchanges could be one of them. Many exchanges are also involved in fake trading just to make it appear that their platform has a high volume. This is present not just in cryptocurrency but also in other markets such as stock, gold, forex, etc.

The good thing about Bitcoin is that it is not just a million-dollar market. It involves hundreds of billions. So it may not be as easy as it sounds. But there are rich institutions that could indeed influence the market.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Gozie51 on October 19, 2020, 12:32:12 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment.


Every situation is an opportunity for scammers to take advantage. You don't expect that all exchanges can be trusted. I have witnessed a bad one myself but maybe out of my own mistake. To follow the known and reputable exchanges by other people is a little fair than trying a luck to a new and inexperienced exchange.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: hulla on October 19, 2020, 02:17:30 PM
I strongly believe exchanges are playing a negative role in the space, mainly because of price manipulation. And if -like in any society- evil doers are not going to pay a heavy price, we all stand a lesser chance to succeed in our investment.
I also believe cryptocurrency exchange site have an impact in the reason Bitcoin is not mainstream now but it not through the act of price manipulation you said because thats the role played by the whales and arbitrage traders. However, exchange site are only guilty of fake volume and liquidity.


There should not be a possibility for someone to short or long a crypto, sell or buy, unless he really holds it!
Binance and some other exchange offer this service and I think some problem are caused by naive people in the crypto system.

I watched this debate between Peter Schiff (Gold bug) and Anthony Pompliano (Bitcoin bug), a rare piece of what you call a high quality debate that you could barely watch these days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U

In this debate, Peter Schiff said yes his company lists Bitcoin as a payment option but they don't accept it themselves, they have instead a payment provider called Bybit that pays them in dollars. Which makes Bitcoin of course more expensive to pay with since you now have a middle man.

And I think he's right in not accepting Bitcoin. Exchanges would pump the hell out of Bitcoin, dump all the bitcoins they could possibly have to buy gold and then let the market return to its normal place again.... This of course plays against Bitcoin mass adoption.


Anthony Pompliano is genuinely a crypto enthusiast but Peter Schiff accepting crypto payment through a third party is still since he seems to be less experienced about crypto payment and how to stop loss but he claiming exchange site pump and dump bitcoin is just an excuse.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Vatimins on October 19, 2020, 03:12:55 PM
     Look man, almost everything that includes money or any valuable assets or even benefits are always bound to be manipulated. In fact it happens way more often than you think. But despite this, there are still gains from every party. Although not fair and square, at least there are still gains. There are a lot of positives for having those exchanges which I believe are pretty obvious along with its cons. This industry is thriving because of the exchanges except those who take things too far.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: grabpopcorn536 on October 19, 2020, 03:31:43 PM
Sure, cryptocurrencies are being killed by exchanges. Centralized exchanges have manipulated much of the value of cryptocurrencies. The majority of exchanges have fake volume. They make up the FOMO mentality more than it builds the crypto space. From the bad events that happened to Kucoin, Metrocoin, Bitmex, OKEX and before that we can see the damage that those exchanges bring. Cryptocurrencies need the serious product and organic growth rather than the current hype and manipulation.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Ucy on October 19, 2020, 03:48:23 PM
Well, the solution to this is decentralized exchanges and a decentralized mechanism to regulate the price of Bitcoin, all within the Bitcoin Network, and accountable to the Network. The centralized platforms/exchanges are more like foreign bodies outside of the network that are not bounded by its rules/principles..Worst still, they are opaque and mutable. Such setup could easily be used against the Bitcoin Network without the network knowing.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: goldade on October 19, 2020, 04:21:50 PM
Just like every other thing in the world, exchanges have their advantages and disadvantages.
It should be noted that despite the fact that exchanges are unregulated which is exactly the reason there is manipulation of prices, it is the major reason for bitcoin's mass adoption.
Many bitcoin owners, today, won't be able to buy and own these coins if not for exchanges. The absence of exchanges would limit the buying and selling of bitcoin to P2P which is only limited to a particular country and if one's unfortunate not to have a P2P in one's country, then one can't buy, own or sell bitcoins.
I believe the only solution to this problem is for exchanges to be regulated but this will defeat the cause of the Blockchain technology.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: abel1337 on October 19, 2020, 05:44:45 PM
Without exchanges such as Binance and Huobi, how many of us would have taken cryptocurrency seriously? There are Dex sites, but they have liquidity issues. Peer to peer platforms such as Localbitcoins are plagued with fraud and cheating. So where the users will go, if they want to exchange some of their fiats for cryptocurrency? It will be ungraceful to say that the cryptocurrency exchanges are having a negative impact.
It's true, Exchanges put up a big role in the cryptocurrency world. I'm pretty sure that we won't have so many users continuing to use crypto if there arent a user-friendly exchange. Of course, business is business for those exchange and we can't blame them if they have taken advantage of it. We are the ones who took advantage of the service and it is up to us to stop using their service or make our life hard in having crypto on our wallets.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Yatsan on October 19, 2020, 10:51:11 PM
The exchanges have both good and bad impact with regards Bitcoin mass adaption and we must see it on both perspective with no biases and no side to just stand out hiding the other side. Yes, there could be a manipulation being done on exchanges for they are the ones listing different cryptocurrencies we see on the market which is the bad side but on the other good side of it, exchanges are the ones who turns out to be the bridge connecting people and crypto market to gain access on cryptocurrencies doing exchanges into any crypto they wanted and even fiat which is a really good thanks to exchanges for the fact that if they are not around, how could it be possible to have access and exchange into the cryptos we do love to have. Nothing have existed perfect in this world both have cons and pros but we must always look upon the two sides fairly with equal judgement for such things existed with purpose just like exchanges do. Exchanges have a decent role on mass adaption and popularity of not just bitcoin but as well as the whole cryptocurrencies in the market.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: PaperWallet on October 20, 2020, 04:46:00 AM
Ok thank you everybody for participating in this thread. The majority think that exchanges are overall good because they are the ones that are the link between fiat and crypto and I agree. But I think, or hope, what should happen is people using decentralised exchanges, with the progressive disappearance of those centralised exchanges who are manipulating the market.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: Vishnu.Reang on October 20, 2020, 04:57:31 AM
Without exchanges such as Binance and Huobi, how many of us would have taken cryptocurrency seriously? There are Dex sites, but they have liquidity issues. Peer to peer platforms such as Localbitcoins are plagued with fraud and cheating. So where the users will go, if they want to exchange some of their fiats for cryptocurrency? It will be ungraceful to say that the cryptocurrency exchanges are having a negative impact.
It's true, Exchanges put up a big role in the cryptocurrency world. I'm pretty sure that we won't have so many users continuing to use crypto if there arent a user-friendly exchange. Of course, business is business for those exchange and we can't blame them if they have taken advantage of it. We are the ones who took advantage of the service and it is up to us to stop using their service or make our life hard in having crypto on our wallets.

Well.. they are not forcing anyone to use their services. We have thousands of exchanges to chose from, ranging from giant-sized exchanges such as Binance and Huobi, to pint-sized exchanges such as StormGain and Omgfin. And the numbers increase with every passing month. Users will chose the most trustworthy exchange with the lowest fees. It is a mutually beneficial relationship.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: RealMalatesta on October 20, 2020, 08:40:44 AM
Volatility as they say have been the major reason people are not really adopting Bitcoin, that apart, there are exchanges doing price manipulation. But I do wonder if there was no volatility and Satoshi created Bitcoin to be stable, are people really going to adopt it as much as they are doing right now, even though some of us still say that adoption is less?

I have seen so many stablecoins and no one is really adopting them, except USDT that seems to be trending and increasing its market as of recent, and I believe that’s the work of traders as they are trying to save their losses by switching to USDT when the market of the coin they are holding is dropping.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: gmaxwell on October 20, 2020, 12:35:51 PM
Most "exchanges" are primarily shitcoin gambling sites.

You log in and get popups urging you to "invest" in some latest scammy ICO or pointless shitcoin.

It's really disappointing and I'm sure it slow Bitcoin's growth a little that there aren't many options for sending people to someplace that won't just try to exploit them by dumping garbage on them...  but I doubt it makes a big impact on Bitcoin's adoption.

Changing how money works just takes time.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: shield132 on October 20, 2020, 10:05:12 PM
Btw the problem is that exchanges really try bad things. For example, binance bought coinmarketcap, the major cryptocurrency price checker. So, I think it's unfair agreement and is not good for cryptocurrencies.

I don’t see what Binance could do through CMC, other than perhaps better positioning their company on the crypto exchange list that is present there, but nothing more than that. The only thing I noticed after that acquisition is that the CMC page has become much slower to load, regardless of the browser and device I use.

It is in human nature to do bad things, so even strictly regulated banks can do very bad things, let's just take the example of the HSBC or Danske Bank scandals that are worth hundreds of billions of dollars. And anyone who expects transparency and honesty in the crypto sector, which is still a very wild place, is at least completely unrealistic.
Okey, Binance paid $400 million to acquire Coinmarketcap. It's really an insane amount of money for a website but I want to remind you that in 2017, Coinmarketcap has been in the list of top 100 websites globally according to Alexa rank. This directly indicates that the website generates huge traffic.
Now their Alexa rank is 656 but the bull run will be the huge advantage for Binance and I think we will see it soon, halving has already happened.

Personally I don't think it's a good fact that Binance has taken control on almost everything and it's their main aim. Increased centralization on decentralized assets? Doesn't sound good for me. I won't be even amazed to read next time that Binance plans to acquire Cointelegraph. It looks like takeover bid on the crypto world.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: meanwords on October 21, 2020, 11:44:32 AM
-snip

You should had made some valid proofs or documentations that would validate your arguments before making some bold claims. As far as I know, Bitcoin price can't be manipulated easily as traders holds the majorities of the liquidity. Exchanges gave way for people to get cryptocurrencies in convenience so it's the opposite of what you are saying unless you proved the rest of us otherwise.

If only you claimed that exchanges are manipulating their marketcap, then that would actually make sense since this is well known.


Title: Re: Exchanges are guilty of preventing Bitcoin mass adoption
Post by: boss1dg on October 21, 2020, 03:14:00 PM
Agree with some extent but you can not expect any future without Centralized Exchanges.
Plus points - Easy to use, centralized so have someone to help you in compare to DEX, need not to be techie to use it, safer than unknown Dex, reputation can be known, platform for new traders, marketing of projects, tier 1 exchanges list reputed projects and chances of exit scams are less, rare rug pull in compare to Dex.
Minus points - No security, wash trading, shady supply, insider trading, favoring listed tokens, shady projects in name of IEO, No good market maker, All of sudden suspend deposit and withdrawal, Support system not so good, intentional delay on deposit of tokens to kill arbitrage, controlling market even BTC.

So now you need to decided how you balance CEX and DEX usage. Exchanges are also here for making money so manipulation will be there, it happens in traditional stock market too at large scale. Just i want them to be more secure and prevent hack.