Bitcoin Forum

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What we people have known very well and have noticed is that many organizations are trying to make bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general to be centralized, they are working towards centralization which is failing people but those centralized bodies and governments will not accept the fact. And many people do not know about this, all they like is to do kyc and follow the rules and regulations of these centralized bodies, but the centralized bodies are indirectly making them to be more vulnerable to cyber attacks, making them not safe and secure, and also not letting them realized what the initial purpose of money is which bitcoin has started to create. There is nothing we can do than to only be educating these people how custodial means of keeping bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is very dangerous.

1. Not your key not your coin
We should know that if we do not have the private keys to our bitcoin, that means we are not just the owner on blockchain. This also applies to all cryptocurrencies. It will be the third party that will be controlling it for us.

2. High transaction fees in custodial wallets and exchanges
One of the issues we are still facing is the scalability issue, but there are ways we bitcoin users are still going about it. On my noncustodial wallets like electrum, I can still make transactions with a very small fee, I can adjust the fee the way I want and still even reduce it and make it flexible for me by making use of bitcoin network condition (congested or not congested) to regulate the fee and make a low fee transaction, unlike on custodial parties, their fee is very high. The reason is that, on noncustodial wallet, I only pay fee to miners during transactions, but on custodial, the fee are paid to the custodial providers, while out of 100% of the fee, the custodial providers only pay 30% or less to miners.

3. Issue of scam
Customer data can breach and known to hackers on custodial wallets and exchanges, it can even happen in a way the custodial party will not know such has happened until the hackers demand for ransom to remove ransomware on their database. This can also lead to a means by which the hackers will know vital information through the kyc leak about the customers and leading to stealing of bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies from the customer as a result of hack directly on the customers device.

So, I will not advise anyone to use custodial services, they are extremely dangerous, and also, they are highly vulnerable by design, that is why custodial wallets and exchanges are often hacked.

This adds a reasons for why I am still a little skeptical towards the news. Funny how they mask the news that they support bitcoin by integrating it in their system when they are the one in control.This is alarming because the adoption is progressing slowly and people who are Post-Paypal integration will think that what they are doing is normal and we all know what happens when masses are conditioned to this information, few knowledgeable people will not be enough to voice out the concern that the system integration is defeating the true purpose. It will be unpleasant but I believe there will be another divide within this ever expanding community.

PayPal into cryptocurrency is pure business and it isn't gonna support the adoption of bitcoin in the global market. More companies made huge investment on bitcoin considering it a reserve that won't drop in value in the short term. Square making an investment is a big step forward, because they serve to be a competent for PayPal. Knowing the need and to stay strong in the global market it is must to go with the development happening with time. As a result I see the PayPal's decision of getting into bitcoin.

We’re all veteran bitcoin users, whilst PP’s bitcoin integration isn’t perfect (far from it) it provides a platform for average Joe who isn’t tech savvy to buy bitcoin. It will help with mainstream adoption, as time passes I believe they’ll change their minds & allow private key retention for the user. Let’s just ride the wave for now & enjoy the price increase.

The news is really hype over mass community. But for true bitcoiners who understand the putpose of crypto in terms lile security means this one is totally going far from what satoshi wants. Yes he indeed mentioned that he created bitcoinfor peer to peer but with the third party it becomes still the same on a traditional aspect making it more centralized. Yes Im happy bitcoin is flying now but of course the idea of bitcoin is being overhyped with different companies and soon it will be a centralized market or form of digital payment where anyone can inflict such provision.

PayPal is simply doing business with Bitcoin. They got a huge marketing boost (for free) simply mentioning the word bitcoin and now they will offer a Revolut/eToro style bitcoin to nocoiners mostly. I see it as simply as that and by no means I would use it to buy/use bitcoin  :)

Paypal doesn't allow the user to send or receive cryptos, only they allows them to buy or sell cryptos, am I correct?

Use of any centralized service always comes with risk and they clearly stated that you will not be provided with private keys so it just making the people to go towards centralized crypto adoption.

Yes, from what I understood. The option of buying with Bitcoin through PayPal is actually just Paypal converting said Bitcoin to fiat before first sending it to the partnered merchants. Their concept of crypto right now is basically something like you bought something, but you don't have it. Tbh, this just ended up in being hyped up too much, especially since their way of providing the system of being able to buy Crypto is flawed in itself.

I just hope their so-called education about crypto and what not provides how their service of buying and selling crypto is unlike what it supposed to really be, though that's very unlikely, I can still hope for it right?

The price of bitcoin has increased because most of the people involved in the cryptocurrency space are still prone to believe that every "good" news that another potential rival of bitcoin started integrating and accepting it is somehow positive for its adoption. It is a fallacy. It may be that such companies and services like PayPal help to spread awareness about the existence of bitcoin, but they are indeed harmful for its adoption. Being an ideological opponent of bitcoin, PayPal distorts the ideas of bitcoin and is trying to show its users and everyone else that bitcoin can be controlled by centralized organizations.

My opinion has not changed since the first rumors about PayPal and bitcoin:

That is a very absurd way to try provide service to the people, how do they claim to support the trade of btc in their platform yet they take the ability of people to be able to withdraw away from them!  assuming i want to buy btc from PayPal and withdraw to my personal wallet i won't be able to do so! then what is the need of using PayPal when i can use other service that will give me the opportunity to withdraw my btc to my personal wallet where i have control of my keys,

despite all their bad reputation, i thought this time they will be more reasonable and less selfish but it appears PayPal will always remains the same, always trying to manipulate users any way they can, well, in the end it will all depend on individual preference, those who trust PayPal with their life might decide to use their service, but the true btc maximalist will not give them the satisfaction.

I get it that PayPal possesses the BTC one will 'have' there. And I understand why many wouldn't want to use it because of that. But technically, we probably all have bank accounts with money there that we consider to be ours, but it's actually the money of the bank. It's just that it's hard to use money you truly own (I avoid cash, and most online payments require a bank account). PayPal might provide a way to pay for something with Bitcoin directly, widening the options vastly because it's PayPal. So I think it should be treated like an exchange (don't hold lots of money there, but use it if it's useful in a particular situation). Moreover, I think it's highly unlikely that PayPal will steal BTC of the customers. Maybe it's even less likely than one losing access or falling a victim of a scam.

As I have understood from various media publications, PayPal is merely offering buy/sell of Bitcoin IOU. This will lead to fractional reserve banking and a turbulent market may even make them insolvent. So, I wont touch their service till they allow BTC withdrawal from their wallet.

But it's better to buy/sell BTC directly using PayPal funds rather than to use other 3rd party p2p exchange like localbitcoin, paxful and Bitcointalk because the value of PayPal balance is very undervalued there due to it's reversible feature on transaction. I'm so tired of exchanging my PayPal funds to negative 10% rate

But I agree with you that it's not advisable to deposit crypto on PayPal because user don't have total control on the wallet.

The Paypal announcement is good news for the all Crypto enthusiasts and we watch our wallets gain in value.

For me I am not using any wallet where I can not control my personal keys. 

I have this feeling many original HODLers have this same mentality and anyone using Paypal to buy crypto will be a newb in the space.

But this is still very good news for adoption.

Also don't forget about this email before coming from them.

https://i.imgur.com/d5S67Iy.png

Source. (https://news.bitcoin.com/paypal-users-receive-cryptocurrency-warning-email/)

I wonder why Paypal turned  into "pro-crypto" so fast,after being in the "anti-crypto" team for all those years?
What changed inside their company?Maybe they smell money inside the crypto industry and decided to abandon all their core principles of banning crypto trading,blocking user accounts,etc. just for the sake of more profits.This seems like a very opportunistic move.
However,all the FUD/anti-Bitcoin banks and corporations like JP Morgan and Paypal are about to jump in the crypto wagon.This trend has pros and cons and we shouldn't celebrate.

Found an interesting article from 2014 that explains in detail why bitcoin is better than PayPal (in our case PayPal-coin). This article should be taken into consideration by those who still believe that news about PayPal starting accepting cryptocurrency payments is a good thing for the adoption of bitcoin.

10 Reasons Why Bitcoin is Better than PayPal (https://cointelegraph.com/news/10-reasons-why-bitcoin-is-better-than-paypal)

https://i.imgur.com/l426bhJ.jpg

Paypal is trying to become the biggest centralized cryptocurrency banking network, they have your money and they will decide you can spend but not send to anyone. Yes its a flawed system but people will go with paypal without reading all the stuffs and end up losing their money again.

Paypal is payment processing company with a blameless record. I get used to use it as a gateway between my fiat money and merchants that supply me with goods.  If  I trusted PayPal to process my  fiat  why it shouldn't be trusted to do the same with my crypto? No one’s gonna hold it there for long/middle term period.  Only short deposit that   caters for the operational costs of buying goods. A bit of a non-sequitur but the rumor is PayPal is gonna issue its  own cryptocurrency.

it was confirmed as fake, more likely to be a fraudulent attempt.
~She said that from the email address, it does not appear to be legitimate. She then checked my account and said that it is fine...
“I don’t know,” Mr. Veksler continued. “All I can tell you is that customer support said it’s fake but the email looks legit, including the digital signatures. I’ve never bought or sold crypto with my account.” Reading of the company’s policy makes no mention of prohibiting cryptocurrency trading of any kind. On the company’s community page, it appears to have labeled the issue solved, with users confirming through representatives the email is indeed a fake


PayPal offers a good opportunity for users to buy or sell cryptocurrency or transact with merchants. However, this service limited only to users who live in the U.S. and using Venmo app. Consider it like exchanges service, you can buy and sell cryptocurrency but they don't give you the private key, it will be better if PayPal enables users to send bitcoin to their personal wallet, "not at this time" doesn't mean never in the future, probably in 2021.

What did PayPal announce around Crypto?
We announced that PayPal users in the U.S. can buy, sell and hold select Cryptocurrencies directly through PayPal using their Cash or Cash Plus account. Users will be able to learn about Crypto, track crypto prices, all without leaving the PayPal app. We plan to introduce this service to Venmo in 2021.
PayPal also announced that it will enable Cryptocurrency as a funding source for purchases in 2021, allowing users to use their Cryptocurrency holdings to make purchases at its network of more than 26 million merchants. Once launched in 2021, when a consumer selects Cryptocurrency as the funding source, the Cryptocurrency will be instantly converted to fiat currency and the transaction will be settled with the PayPal merchants in fiat currency.
(Venmo, which is restricted to personal use, is often free and exists partly as a digital wallet, and partly a social media feed. Certain daily and monthly transaction size limits apply)

How about the fees? read more below
Source (https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/cryptocurrency-on-paypal-faq-faq4398?app=searchAutoComplete)

Many institutions and platforms will turn in favor of Bitcoin because they realized attacking it is in vain. But this is exactly what should convince us not to use their platforms anymore.

Providing BTC through PP will be a big convenience for many. A lot of people will think of how easy it now became to purchase and sell BTC thanks to PP - but it's like storing your wallet in some stranger's purse at all times. A day could come when the stranger might not want to give you your wallet back anymore.

It's just a bunch of nonsense that unfortunately works. People prefer storing money in someone else's wallet when they have the completely free option to store it in their own.

For some investors or traders, this news will give them profits for them in the short term.
For us Bitcoin users and have been here for quite some time, maybe some are happy but in the end we know that this is purely business.

We know how Bitcoin works and we know also how Paypal is anti when it comes to Bitcoin years ago. Although there are rumors regarding this, I didn't expect that it will really happen. I'm not expecting too much into this though the awareness to spread Bitcoin can be increased with the help of Paypal.

This is the first thing that I've thought of when paypal has announced the news.

For people like us who have been transacting directly and won't go to any third party. We understand the downside of it.

But for those users that can't trust any other people telling them what to do, they'll choose the reputable platform that any stranger bitcoin expert/veteran on the web.

Thanks for sharing, very nice article.


This is probably the reason why they did it. And at the same time they are making a custodial service which almost nullifies bitcoin.

However, there are still reasons to use Bitcoin with Paypal.

• Paypal is largely accepted (more than bitcoin). So, theoritically, bitcoin is now a payment method in every website that accepts paypal.
• It is easier(and legal in some countries) to avoid taxes of your bitcoin gains buying stuff with bitcoin. You could buy expensive stuff such as airline tickets with bitcoin/paypal to dump a big stash of btc without any taxes.

For example. A few months ago I wanted to buy a Coursera course with bitcoin


There was no solution for that. But it is now possible.

However (big however now), Bitcoin is accepted with paypal only in USA. This almost nulify all the benefits I mentioned above. But that would be HUGE if I could just add bitcoin to my paypal account and buy stuff online in another countries.
I would avoid about 10% taxes/fees in everything I bought online (yeah, about 10%.. it is very sad to live in a shitful country). I could avoid all that using BTC, but it is not largely accepted.

If anybody wants Bitcoin, I mean really wants to own Bitcoin, then there is no point making the purchase through paypal. There is nothing to gain if they do that. It will just become a burden in the future. I believe there are a lot of other options available when buying Bitcoin. P2P purchases are the best way. If there's none found, they better do it in exchanges. At least they will be allowed to take their Bitcoin away immediately after having it and then keep it somewhere safe where they own the private keys.

It seems paypal itself does not truly understand Bitcoin at all.

From a legal POV, I don't think it's a very good move to avoid taxes this way. In my country at least, it's been mentioned over and over that the purchase of digital/physical goods using BTC still counts as a taxable action if your profit has been used to pay for it.

Bitcoin transaction is irreverisble but Paypal transaction can be reversed (chargebacks). I don't make an exchange between reversible and irreversible payment methods.

It is for both buying and selling bitcoin but if I am selling bitcoin, I have one more reason to not use PayPal. My bitcoin will be send first and my fiat money in PayPal can be chargeback weeks later. It is risky for my side and I can not control it.

Because I am still using bank account and bank transfer, I would like to use bank transfer to buy courses or some other things that I can not buy them directly with my bitcoin or crypto. I don't use PayPal.

^ For people who don't care about privacy, Paypal is the best option for purchasing bitcoin since it is very easy to use and has a wide variety of industries that accept Paypal as a payment processor. I don't see any problem with using Paypal to purchase bitcoin and it is good if we have different ways of purchasing bitcoin in an easy way. However, this will bring good benefits to the bitcoin that gain massive adoption. Nevertheless, let see how the result will going on upon the recent announcement of paypal that accepts bitcoin, let us do hope it will have a positive result.

Paypal has been anti bitcoin and crypto for all these years. They just needed to hear the word crypto to ban users and reverse payments. When there's crypto involved, there were no chances for disputes to settle the right way. I dumped paypal and have came along good. I know for some people, Paypal would be easier way to buy and sell coins but they are not the right way to crypto. There would be privacy concerns as always and be ready for freezes and constant hassle to keep your account active.

Does it give complete freedom of action with the funds though? The Trezor article you've quoted tells me the opposite: "The fact that this clause remains in their policy suggests that they intend to limit users to use only their platform for cryptocurrency, stifling competition and preventing users from ever withdrawing their cryptocurrency to the safety of a wallet they control the keys to."

I don't think PP will ever allow their customers to fully control funds tbh. This is not something massive corporations will ever support - it's more of a wet dream of ours. Even AtomicDEX, an exchange that used to be decentralized, is going to implement KYC and AML (https://komodoplatform.com/community-update-on-atomicdex-kyc-aml/) regulatory procedures.

I don't think their centralized vision is the problem. They are a company making money, and they are very good at it, as there is a great demand for their services.

Their service is very interesting, as it makes payments from different currencies very easy and smooth (for a high fee although). I know some people that use paypal for their services and it works very well. It is easier to use than bitcoin, and it may be the best payment method for some situations (as you don't need to worry about exchanging currencies, buying bitcoin in an exchnage, creating a wallet, etc, which can be very time consuming for newcomers)

You don't need to use your paypal account to hold your bitcoin live savings. Do you want to buy a coursera course with bitcoin for 50 usd? Just transfer 0.0045 USD to paypal and get your course with bitcoin. Keep your stash in a HW.

I think this is all fairly obvious to anyone who believes in Bitcoin's core values, rather than viewing it as just an investment. The big question is, would PayPal do more harm or good to Bitcoin ecosystem? On one hand it's another centralized gateway, even worse than the current exchanges, because you can't get your coins, on the other hand it gives exposure to Bitcoin to hundreds of millions of people, many of whom otherwise could never try it. Some of those people would eventually graduate to buying Bitcoin on other platforms.

But let's not forget that if not a lot of people would be using this new PayPal's feature, then it will be just irrelevant.

Eventough Paypal must not be the best place to buy it, we have to consider this a big step. Paypal has a huge database of clients.


This means another 100 million people at least reading about bitcoin.

Some will adopt, some will ignore.

Some 5 years later will be happy others will regret. hehe

I guess it's up to us to also provide educational content about "not your key, not your coins" so people who use PayPal will learn about security to learn to store their coin in their own wallet.

The paranoia that authorities, FEDs, and banks are trying to make cryptocurrency to be centralized is probably true. Its just not right that Paypal will really be doing this without them planing ahead of what they would do next.

PayPal NEVER wanted to add cryptocurrency to their platform so lets just start off with that.  This goes against their business model and is very telling how far bitcoin is coming along that they actually did add it to their platform.  That said, PayPal is a scumbag piece of shit company that is as immoral and corrupt as they come.  PayPal also reports transactions, so keep that in mind. They (kind of like Coinbase) will ban you whenever they please as well as lock up your funds...my advice...stay far away!

I used Paypal since 10 years ago I think. I used it for online microtransactions.
in 2015-2015, Paypal limited my account. Unfortunately, I still had funds on in Paypal account.
I can't use my PayPal to send or withdraw my money before I follow their instructions.
I need to send my ID, billing address, etc. That was my first online KYC.

When I heard that Paypal will have Bitcoin integration, I was like..
duck you P, you will make users complicated when they need it  >:(

let them promotes Bitcoin.
but don't use it :P

First of all I want to state this. I somehow find ironic this joke that Paypal started buying/selling bitcoin. And I do, because bitcoin and paypal were pictured as opponents on our minds years ago. Bitcoin created for avoiding money transfer sites with the so-called "middleman". The most famous online money transfer site is (and it'll always be) Paypal. Since Paypal started accepting bitcoin as an investment, as far as I've understood, it means it's finally defeated. Just kiddin'  :P

Now, generally this kind of bitcoin purchase should be avoided for the reasons OP said. It doesn't happen only on paypal, I've seen sites that don't allow you to send bitcoins to addresses such as Revolut. If someone, though, is completely unfamiliar with bitcoin (and he/she doesn't care to learn at all), then I think that paypal wouldn't be a bad choice. He/She just wants to invest, nothing more. There are always those that need a third party.

#satoshi_would_be_proud

This is the news that makes crypto enthusiast surprise about. PayPal has many users, if a persons wants to use the service of bitcoin using PayPal it’s their option but it should down notes the risks. There are other ways on how to have bitcoin in purchasing it through the exchange, so the main point here is people should still be cautious in doing transactions since it has been said not your keys, not your coin.

The news might provide more trust and known used case for cryptocurrency around the world but the alternative in such market cant be justified. For a volatile coin, it will remain a challenge for valuation. It is also another means to provide identity to wallet users, pay taxes to other countries and accrue cryptocurrency for the country in a bullish market. Why the development now since 2018?

It is quite opening up two sides for bitcoin supporters, those who really value bitcoin, and those who praise the market price of it. It seems like most of us are already contented with the market price even without the release of PayPal. That is actually good since we can fully maximize the benefit of bitcoin from having your own private key, meaning, having your own coin. But my opinion here is that eventually, people will learn about decentralization even if PayPal is producing some content that is focused on centralized transactions of bitcoins using their platforms. What is important here is the hype that it builds to create more market adoption, PayPal news doesn't really attract people to use PayPal, some are also buying and storing it in their own wallet.

not your keys not your bitcoins got famous on crypto but i never hear this saying  before by the time theres no cryptos yet . people didnt care about the money that they put on paypal and other centralized wallets because they think its already trusted but it is because paypal is going strong up to this date with no reports that money got stolen except to those that got scammed .

after paypal announce this , threads then follow up on this site  . they all say that its the paypal causes the sudden increase in btc but days before the revelation. the price are already high but it got boosted by paypal crypto news .

Certainly, a large company such as Paypal will not give up its centralization and complete control over the money of its users easily. It is true that Paypal entered the world of crypto, but it is clear that it is trying to enter in its own way, and instead of merging with the decentralized crypto world, it tries to make the crypto world subject to its central conditions.
Of course, this news had a great positive impact on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and it will help the mass adoption of cryptocurrencies around the world, but I think that a large number of cryptocurrency fans will not accept that the private keys for their cryptocurrencies are in the hands of a third party, as Paypal will be able to block them at any time. And freeze their coins. Plus, PayPal will definitely order KYC, which is what many crypto fans don't like.

Because Bitcoin is the first currency to exist that is transparent, open-source and decentralized. It's the more fair digital version of cash. With cash, the crypto saying could be translated as "not your wallet, not your banknotes".

Actually, it isn't as strong as you may think. I don't think there actually is one website or software out there that has literally zero flaws. Now that you've mentioned PayPal's supposed strength against theft, there have been really bad flaws (https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2020/03/09/alarming-paypal-scam-alert-this-stupidly-simple-new-hack-puts-you-at-risk-heres-how-it-works/) in the past with PP. Most of the times, security is just an illusion.

I wouldn't get too excited about it. Could be just a short term hype pump as usual.

paypal is an unrivaled online payment gateway. for many years they have been providing services with a good reputation. provisionally how many cryptocurrency they will implement? a few things i didn’t understand clearly. in this paypal wallet can we just received crypto no option to send anywhere? i have an account it’s limit over last 2 years.

I guess there is nothing wrong in using paypal as a means of buying or selling bitcoin especially if it will be easier for you to cashout via paypal as paypal has a big
connection to many banks.

But with regards to storing, I guess I can compare it to CEX exchange like binance and etc. as we can store,sell or buy bitcoin there but we don't have the private key of it
so it's up for us to trust our money to them. But if you don't like it then you can use paypal service in many ways like cashin in bitcoin or cashing it out via paypal especially
if their fees is not that high.

PayPal is known for their bad reviews and ratings. They aren't here for any other thing than business. They seize user funds.
I won't advise keeping funds on it because it's centralised. They sure won't give private key

yes Paypal currently requires KYC verification to be used as a whole so you can make purchases and withdrawals. I think using paypal is only an alternative option from the many platforms that you can choose from. if you have bad experience with paypal you can miss it. To be sure paypal is currently making a big adoption by adding cryptocurrency to its platform and this is the adoption that has been waiting for.

Been using PayPal for so many years but I usually leave few dollars on my account as I don't feel the need to leave big amount. I am using it for convenience purposes when you need to pay a merchant online. And yes, you do need to undergo KYC as you are connecting your credit/debit card to your account. There's no way you can avoid that step. And with the inclusion of bitcoin in their platform, for me, it will drive adoption no matter what. So it depends on the crypto user if he is not amenable with KYC requirement. There are other options how to get crypto.

Anyone can changed when they do saw that their opinions had been completely trashed and been ignored by people whom do support Bitcoin.

They do saw that it cant really affect crypto the way on telling things ex. being a scam but instead of making out some fuds to decrease its price, it do rather stood strong after all these years.

Integration of paypal with crypto is a good move but on general sense, this isn't something different on buying up bitcoin on typical exchangers that we do had today.

Of course, if you don't own the keys then you don't own those coins as long it stayed to paypal wallet.

I actually disagree with you on this. PayPal is definitely helping with both increased awareness and adoption of BTC where the latter doesn't have to be direct purchases through PayPal but can be through other non-custodial places i.e. exchanges. 

Even if there might be underlying reasons tied to monetary values why PayPal despite initially disproving crypto has now decided to endorse it the movement has also initiated the new bull run BTC seems to be on.

As to using PayPal for BTC, I think most early-adopters will know better than not to fall for this. I'm sure this new partnership (if you can call it that) means more identity exposure and possibly making you more of a target, plus the fees would be another matter altogether.

It think they will going to use some money after it can get accumulated in their platform. Imagine that many people stored money in their platform but thinking of not withdrawing it as indicated in their policy? So, what really is bitcoin for them? an accessory or something? People are thinking about it as an investment now that bitcoin to grow I think that they afraid of lossing money after I guess they spend probably the money of the people after buying bitcoin. They can probably return their money when bitcoin market will go downand they can make easy purchase.

Because you shouldnt use centralized services for crypto. Especially paypal, they like to ban accounts without reason so much

That's even worse than making a limited custodial account for cryptocurrencies!

Imagine for a second if Paypal goes around buying crypto companies we are all familiar with, they could buy Blockstream, they could buy blockchain.info, and then every transaction you make will be logged and reported to authorities. This is actually worse than the reporting Coinbase does because at least they don't report continuously.

What happen next, Amazon or Google makes a bitcoin solution and starts buying bitcoin companies as well? Then big tech will lure the majority of users to their solution.

Then countries under the guise of AML start prohibiting bare transactions on the blockchain on the basis that the transactions
can't be reported to them and governments can't inspect such transactions, and turn it into a luxury right only given to enterprises? This is not the direction we want to head in.

Mind you this would affect all major cryptocurredies and even Bitcoin Cash and Monero.

No doubt Paypal is going to be one of the most centralized exchange/wallet out there. You won't have access to your keys and you might lose access to your funds temporarily (or even permanently). But at least they are now involved with cryptocurrencies which will help more people know about bitcoin and other crypto currencies. Though we should still warn people about the risks involved and encourage them not to hold or store large amount of coins in paypal.
They see their users as a cashcow. They turned into pro-crypto to make some easy money from people (and even promote themselves further).

By including Bitcoin, Paypal is expanding its services and its purpose is for the user to have more payment options for their customer list. For us it would be convenient to use it in some cases. It is not the best tool we want because we are used to decentralization, and managing our keys. For a person new to crypto, it may be of interest to buy Bitcoin in Paypal for its ease.

Sounds a little sad. Yes, PayPal will become a large centralized exchanger. What about the very idea of ​​cryptocurrencies? Where is their decentralization? Was this what Satoshi wanted? What can we do with bitcoin that is regulated?
The upside is that many people learn about Bitcoin? And aren't there other sources where you could get this knowledge? Again, everything ends with regulation. Taking one step towards control, which looks like government goodwill, the second step will be just as categorical. And over time, everything related to cryptocurrency will be in the hands of the state.

It remains to be seen if a regulated, read entirely controlled version of bitcoin is even possible. I think once people understand that Bitcoin IOU offered by PayPal and others is not real Bitcoin, they will start to use bitcoin properly, even without ever converting it into fiat. Paradoxically, companies start to adopt bitcoin, because people all over the world are willing to use it as a currency for saving and everyday transactions because of its deflationary and decentralized nature, but, at the same time, what companies do is try to make bitcoin look like centralized fiat currency. Don't they understand they are rendering bitcoin worthless, because it was created to replace fiat currencies, that is the main reason people value bitcoin! In short, they add bitcoin because it is valuable, but the way they do that makes it not.

It is an awful idea to use PayPal to store our bitcoins because they sometimes randomly suspend users' accounts without any warning and notification. PayPal is a custodial wallet that we don't have any financial freedom with our assets or bitcoins because they don't let us keep our private keys, so they are full control over our funds.

I guess what makes it so popular now because a giant is now adapting the cryptocurrency method. I think what people need to know is what they are risking using their platform. The general users should be aware of what a private key should be and how important it is to have your own wallet instead of a custodial. I hope people who are going into the crypto space from PayPal would read this as well.

I like the idea of "enjoy." Once this goes even more mainstream, it will even reach higher highs. You will never know.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why he's a former CEO?  ;D

The current CEO is also a piece of work.

In January 2019 he wasn't a Bitcoin supporter.
https://in.news.yahoo.com/paypal-ceo-shades-bitcoin-not-154012219.html
"CEO Dan Schulman expressed skepticism about mass merchant adoption of bitcoin, noting that there are very few retailers that currently accept crypto."

He was also a "blockchain not bitcoin" guy  :(
"Schulman: Crypto Is Not Really a Currency
Schulman is leery of hopping on the bitcoin bandwagon because he believes crypto's main role is to showcase blockchain technology."

Below is an article from November 2019 where he suddenly changed his mind.
"CEO of payment processor PayPal Dan Schulman revealed during an interview on PayPal’s departure from Libra that the only cryptocurrency he owns is Bitcoin."
https://cointelegraph.com/news/paypal-ceo-hodls-bitcoin-and-only-bitcoin

There's also this:
"According to recent comments from PayPal’s co-founder, Luke Nosek, the payment company was reportedly initially looking to create its own digital currency long ago"
https://toshitimes.com/paypal-co-founder-admits-original-mission-of-paypal-was-creating-a-global-currency-much-like-cryptocurrency/


I think that after Libra's failure they just gave up and went with the next best thing.

Yeah, maybe people who already use crypto will not use Paypal to store our bitcoin because that will not be comfortable. They will prefer to send the bitcoin in their Paypal into their private wallet to take control of their bitcoin. That will better to do that than to let Paypal handle storing the bitcoin in the user account.

But I think Paypal will do something related to the new update on their website, so we can hope that Paypal will know that people who use crypto needs more privacy to store their coins in their account.

But if we think that we don't want to use Paypal, we don't have to use it, and we can use the existing wallet or other markets to buy bitcoin. It is a new thing for us which Paypal finally integrated their system to the blockchain technology, and I am sure there will be more updates from Paypal. At least, the Paypal news can spread the cryptocurrency among their members, and making the crypto grow more and become globally.

They are more likely to be a third party of this technology just like with fiat currencies. Yes, they are aiming for centralization. Personally I don't have plans buying Bitcoin from PayPal I just like the idea that it may influence and contribute to mass adoption of cryptocurrencies in the future, centralization is another story.
We may call PayPal as a network in mainstream, with that being given, it is more likely to introduce cryptos or Bitcoin perhaps to the masses in this case. But for those who are exposed to this industry, they would probably stick with the old method of purchasing Bitcoin and other cryptos.

Yes indeed total agree with this for fund it still safe if we store in cold wallet using hardware like trezor or something and yes paypal till know suspend user with no clear reason, but the good things is that will atract people join crypto industry and a lot marketplace using paypal as payment thats make us do alot of thing now  ;D

Exactly, despite all the negativity relating to PayPal, many people still trusting in their service, i myself prefer using PayPal than direct from my bank account because of their money back guarantee policy, this is just the honest truth, no institution or organization is without some flaws, even btc is not without some flaws, PayPal and banks have provided service to people for generations, people have always trust them and may still continue to do so, it is all about given it a try, especially to those people who are not familiar with crypto, through papal it will be much easier for them.
this is just the beginning who knows what other features they may decide to introduce as they progress.

No, paypal is never the best option for purchasing Bitcoin even to people who really don't care about privacy. Privacy is another topic. The main problem with paypal offering an opportunity for their users to purchase and sell Bitcoin is that they are not allowed to send it within and outside paypal.

How can you consider that as the best option? The best option to purchase Bitcoin is that which allows you to send it anywhere you want, to keep it outside your paypal wallet, and to have private keys to it.

there must be a reason on why they block accounts . i dont use paypal but my friends are and thier accounts are working normally  . they dont experience to get blocked , those who got block can be lying and commit a violation against the paypal rules . my friends just saw the update and they try converting some btc . this is great because my friends are not really into btc before , the update really attract people to join btc  . paypal do also have a wider support in shopping , this makes me also attracted to join paypal but i wont store my balance on them for a long time .

That is really a good point,  another pros  is that you don't need to to enter sensitive card details on the merchants sides as provided when paying directly by card. You trust PayPal once and after that forgot about all threats implicated in direct online payments.  I'm using this for 10 years without any glitch and from this moment , when their service includes cryptocurrency will use it even  more. It's better to firmly trust one service than smudge it among thousands others.  

The first time I heard that Paypal accepts cryptocurrency I was very surprised, because Paypal has been anti-crypto
since its beginnings and now has suddenly changed. It turned out that my suspicion was proven, Paypal accepted
cryptocurrency only to make profit. So there is no desire Paypal to support mass adoption of Bitcoin. Therefore we all
don't want to buy Bitcoin on Paypal, because it will only benefit Paypal.

We all know how scammers used to scam the people by doing cryptocurrency transactions and then reverting the amount back to their wallets.
Paypal didn't do anything about it earlier and now since paypal has accepted crypto payments this will give scammers a bigger opportunity to scam the people.
It would be wise if we don't use paypal for crypto transactions at least until it becomes fully stable and a well established platform.
The major thing to consider would be "owning the private keys" as we won't be able to do that on paypal.
So holding the cryptocurrencies on paypal itself would be a bad idea unless you are buying/selling crypto and then transferring it to a wallet where you can own the keys.

First of all, we need to understand that when crypto go global alot centralized group will step in, i think we have to welcome some centralization bodies if we want cryptocurrenies to be mainstream and this issue have been discussed several times which I believe it shouldn't be an issue now. Besides, we understand how Paypal operated and the license they were given by New York consumers was clearly said to be conditional Bitlicense. However, Paypal is planning to operate as crypto payment instruments to bridge the gap of people not using crypto as fiat.

This is understandable but the same thing happens in using crypto exchange site (like Binance mind PayPal have been in existence than all crypto exchange) which I believe PayPal will be secure that the centralized exchange we have now.

Paypal's adoption of btc shows how easy it is to see through the privacy veil of bitcoin. More power to privacy coins like XMR!

When we are going to start doing bitcoin jobs like bitcoin trading, exchanging through PayPal is not a good idea because it surely will be having a high transaction fee and it is better to use any other exchanging site that is recommended by the professionals. I know what PayPal is a user friendly but it is not friendly for those who are just beginning to do trading because majority of the beginner has a small investment and doesn't have enough funds to afford a large amount of transaction fee.

Users are available to buy, sell, and hold bitcoin on the platform which is, in my opinion, a good thing for some of the users but that just means that it is a centralized thing again.

That's makes it kinda odd because it was just another custodial wallet, but still, for some people, a custodial wallet could be reliable even though there might be some issues. Still, Paypal getting into cryptocurrency is a big leap, just imagine how many people are using Paypal and cryptocurrency is gonna be available in the platform.

It is gonna affect the market price of cryptocurrency that is available in the platform adding a potential million of users or investors.

Well is regulation & insurance of funds vs No regulation & anonymity

I don't think what paypal does means centralization, is just regulation, and who cares about the private key if you can prove the property and the funds are insured.

I'm a holder, i don't use btc to pay anything, just waiting, as i do with some other assets. Any investment can fail, and not meet expectations. But only in the case of btc I have to be worrying about hackers and companies without credibility. If you have shares deposited in a bank and bankruptcy, there are national funds that cover important amounts. But if this happens to you in the crypto world, you have lost your money

So I am really happy for the news of paypal, and I hope that more companies with their credibility continue to join the crypto world, where the current biggest problem is lack of credibility and insecurity

I think David Birth did a good job guessing at what PayPal real intent with this recent bitcoin announcement. He makes some very good points IMHO. Basically he makes the case that right now bitcoin is being used largely for speculative investment purposes and not as the e-cash system it was intended to be and that using PayPal to leverage bitcoin as e-cash system just doesn't make sense given all of the caveats.  In summary he thinks the move is more a marketing play and for positioning for the potential future were entities like PayPal are facilitating trading of digital bearer instruments.  What do you all think?

PayPal’s Bitcoin Strategy Is Not About Bitcoin by David G.W. Birch
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbirch/2020/10/25/paypals-bitcoin-strategy-is-not-about-bitcoin/

Well.. this is one of the best responses I could find in this thread. There has been a lot of criticism directed towards PayPal, and I have to say that much of it is unwarranted. I have been at the receiving end of account freezing by PayPal many years back. After that I never used PayPal. But that said, I can't ignore the fact that hundreds of millions of users around the world are using PayPal right now. Making cryptocurrency available to all these people is a big boost to the adoption. I would still keep my coins in my paper wallet and doesn't plan to reopen an account with PayPal. But there may be a lot of people, who will find the acceptance of BTC by PayPal very useful.

very well said, looking from an average or should i say less knowledge about crypto perspective, what paypal is offering is not entirely wrong, it is a matter of given a platform for the less knowledgeable people to have an opportunity to be in crypto, like  i said in one of my previous post, till now many crypto traders and non-traders prefer to leave their crypto assets in exchange which in my opinion is more or less same as having your crypto with paypal only with slight difference,
again if we want giant companies and corporations to be in crypto then definitely there will be some form of regulations that will be introduce along the line, crypto is too vulnerable, it won't hurt to see some little form of regulations here and there,  besides, this is still a question of choice.

Paypal that I have is also only used to pay for some services that have to use paypal and I only leave a small amount of paypal balance. KYC that is implemented by paypal is common, but when bitcoin enters, of course there will be new crypto users who start using paypal but do not agree with KYC. this is only an option, there are still many places to buy bitcoin, paypal is only an alternative.

PayPal did not do this to serve the people, they actually used bitcoin to promote themselves, I think PayPal is losing its user and losing popularity due to hard KYC rules, and that's why they want to make people's attention at Bitcoin as a medium.

Thank you for sharing this information with us. I didn't know that PayPal aimed their users to use Bitcoin like a centralized currency. If we are to use it like that, then what is the meaning of using PayPal for cryptocurrencies? Like you said, the news only benefited the Bitcoin price. I don't think there will be too many people use PayPal for this purpose.

This is not about benefiting the price but this is how they promote PayPal in the use of cryptocurrency which Bitcoin. We take this situation seriously because this will change the future of Bitcoin and crypto in general. Is one way to make crypto soon to manipulated by a group of people, merchants, and taking control over it. This is a fight that we have not to lose otherwise, we are the one that suffers later while they are milking us.

Makes the shitiest of exchanges look like ... angelic. :P

Perhaps for PayPal, it's just part of a marketing company.  

PayPal top managers have noticed a rise in the price of bitcoin (its price has been increasing since April 2020).  Hype is a necessary part of any marketing campaign.  
The rise in price of the first cryptocurrency is a significant event.  This is interesting to many.

The ability to buy and sell BTC, ETH, LTC, BCH is an informational reason for PayPal advertising.  
High commissions support this theory.

Perhaps PayPal has no plans to trade cryptocurrencies (as part of the business). It doesn't interest him.

I don't understand why you should be having a problem here. Their fee structure looks extremely reasonable for me. For example, if I am purchasing $24 worth of Bitcoin, then I have to pay $0.50 as fee. If I do the same with any of the exchanges, I need to pay manytimes that amount. The median transaction fee is going at around $10 right now. No need to blame them all the time. Appreciate the good things that they are doing.

How sure are you that their announcement was what led the price to increase to $13,200? Before that their announcement the price of bitcoin was already going up slow and steady, from $9k to $10k, and from there to $12k, so what difference does this one make?

And yes I have been suspecting for long that PayPal might not be a really good option because they are too centralized. I also came across a comment here that was saying something about their fees and whether it will be the same 2.9%. we are not fully sure how this is going to work. And I don’t understand what you mean by we will not be able to exchange the cryptocurrencies stored on PayPal for cash, I don’t think you’re right about that; if you have Bitcoin on your PayPal, you will possibly be able to exchange it for anytime you want.

From what I've seen, credibility only lasts as long as the security does.  All it takes is one hack and suddenly they don't have credibility anymore.

PayPal look to be operating via the "security through obscurity" method, since they haven't disclosed much about their operation.  It's a mixed bag, since it means it should, in theory, be harder to find a weakness to exploit, but at the same time, it means you can't be sure if your funds are really there, because they aren't showing you any information on the blockchain to verify it.

I suggest that, due to how easy is it for buyers on Paypal to dispute a transaction and get back their money, people usually don't accept Paypal for Bitcoin.

Simply that's no  need to explain further, it's business and it's required they are just doing it continue service, nothing wrong or to blame. We should be thankful that they are into this now and more people are now learning this system because of their participation to this chain, just let it go and continue no big damage that being done here.

Given the fees that Paypal asks for, I would only use this service if I had no other choice.

NOT YOUR KEYS.......... NOT YOUR BITCOIN!!!   MEANING IF YOU DONT HOLD THE KEY TO YOUR COINS THEN YOU REALLY DONT OWN THEM. PAYPAL HAS CUSTODY OF YOUR BITCOIN WHEN YOU BUY IT. WHICH IS NOT GOOD, CAUSE IF SOMETHING HAPPENS AND BITCOIN GOES MISSING. GUESS WHAT??? YOUR SCREWED. YOU WANNA BE ABLE TO TAKE YOUR BITCOIN INTO YOUR CUSTODY ON A HARDWARE WALLET NOT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET. A USB WALLET THAT YOU OWN AND HOLD ONLY YOU!

This is the big thing that is a concern to me when it comes to digital currencies and specifically Bitcoin. 

If I am not in control of my keys then I dont feel safe and dont trust that something horrible could happen to my crypto.

It is a great thing for our community and Bitcoin to have such a major company like Paypal get on board.  I would never ever consider to use Paypal as a means of buying any crypto.

Has anyone in the forum tried to buy bitcoin through Paypal? Can you post your screenshots of the interface? Thank you.

I read a news article on Coindesk where it mentioned that users log in twice as much after users bought bitcoin. This might imply that Paypal has gamified the buying and selling of bitcoin and other cryptocoins and have created a new generation of gambling addicts.

Another reason not to use Paypal.

'lol' looks like they did some joke data...
we can not confirm whether the claims they say are true or not, for sure I will not buy Bitcoin on PayPal because I  have no reason to buy there, and are comfortable buying Bitcoin on Binance and bitstamp.

So far, paypal only uses bitcoin as a medium to promote paypal so that more bitcoin users switch to paypal? I did not think that paypal was not fully cooperated with bitcoin, only paypal took advantage of this moment. Thank you for the information

I am afraid using such service as one day paypal might freeze accounts for buying Bitcoin which centralized exchanges mostly do. And the other reason is that we are not in control of our coins as they have our keys. That is also one reason I don't actually store Bitcoins or other crypto assets on our local exchanges to prevent funds of getting compromised as they are also prone to hacks.

Plus how can the community be sure that the Bitcoin you buy in PayPal are backed by real Bitcoins? How can we be sure that centralized entities don’t inflate the supply in their ledgers? I believe this can be a threat to Bitcoin as a protocol because it wouldn’t be enough for full nodes to validate the supply, if a centralized entity can “print” Bitcoin in their ledgers.

Although I have always favored direct payments with Bitcoin, nowadays I am getting inclined to using third party services such as BitPay and PayPal (obviously PayPal hasn't started allowing its users to make payments with BTC). Last week, I was paying on average of $10 to $15 for Bitcoin transactions. The fee has spiked to unsustainably high levels. And from what I heard, with ETH the situation is even worse. Now the third party systems such as BitPay uses internal transfer and therefore the fee won't be that high. I am still OK with a fee of $10 or $15. But what if the fee jumps further, to $50 or even $100? I still remember what happened in December 2017, when I paid $50 as fee for a single transaction. I don't want a repeat of that. 

although I hate fiat but for now I will not choose bitcoin for payment the fee is too high and sometime take too long for confirmation, bitcoin is only investment for me