Bitcoin Forum

The famous and most well-paid signature campaign, ChipMixer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935179.0), is giving away approximately 1 bitcoin every week, which means ~$12k to the participants that advertise it. At least this is what I see from the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17P52DifaD7YfvzLkX3wrxGVpKcaPHY4y57ZpI-FK754/edit).

The question is, how does this website survive? I mean, I've seen that they don't ask for money if you want to mix your bitcoins. They only accept donations from your chip purchase. I can't imagine that they're making more than 1BTC every week, except if there's a huge number of people that want to support it by donating, but this seems too promising. In order to pay 0.00075BTC for each post, it means that they're earning a lot more.

So what really happens behind ChipMixer? Am I missing anything?

The chips are available only in certain denominations and the minimum is 0.001. For privacy reasons it's advisable to send an amount that doesn't match a chip size exactly and is not rounded to 3 decimal spots so in theory everyone should donate at least something since privacy would seem to be kind of important if you're mixing... obviously not everyone really does but I guess there's enough for them to sustain the business and the promotion.

I have a feeling that only chipmixer can answer this, else anyone trying to guess their daily stat of donations or earning, and you don't need to create a new thread regarding this, they have their own ann thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1935098.0) and op is actively answering relevant questions. As for the business, surely there's enough funds for them to sustain their signature campaign.

We all know that money does not grow on trees, and also those who are a little better informed know that CM has the highest reputation among such services, and is therefore the most used - which ultimately means that it profits the most, and therefore can pay promotion fixed 0.00075 BTC per post regardless of the price that BTC has on the market. I can’t speculate how much BTC goes through CM per week - but I’m sure it’s not about small numbers.

Nothing happens except that you do not understand the size of this service - and that there are millions of BTC on the market whose owners use CM and leave very generous donations as a token of gratitude. For someone who mixes 1000 BTC it’s no wonder to leave 1 BTC as a donation, and that donation can pay for a campaign for an entire week or even more.

Chips also have a weird format. For example, if you send 1.024 BTC but don't want such uncommon amount in a chip, you can donate the .024 and withdrawal an 1 BTC chip. That's an 2% fee/donation that goes to ChipMixer.

I bet a lot of people do that since 2% is less than the maximum percentage that most mixers charge. You can use a reputable service and pay no fee at all and maybe leave an optional small amount (a small 0.001 chip, a bigger one or just the 2% difference), or you can try your luck at a random less known mixer that charges an obligatory fee.

I have received big tips just for helping people on the forum and I haven't even done much. Now imagine what a whale guy leaves as a "thank you" gift for a service he likes that charges no direct fee... :)

But anyways, why do you care about how they make money? Posting how much they make or mix doesn't sound like a good idea. There are no scam accusations, so they aren't stealing anyone. This probably means that if they are still alive, they must be profitable.

If someone deposits 0.512 btc and withdraws exactly 0.512 in one or more chips, there would be a limited number of output transactions that are associated with their withdrawal. However, if someone were to deposit 0.512 and withdraws 0.511 btc, the number of possible withdrawal transactions goes up. The bigger the difference between the deposit amount and withdrawal amount, the more difficult it will be for an outside observer to make the connection between the deposit and withdrawal transactions.

The reason why someone would use a mixer is that they want privacy and the larger the donationfee they choose to pay, the more privacy they will have.

Genuine question: Does this matter if I make a donation, though? Let's say I deposit exactly 0.128 BTC. I then decide to donate 0.002 BTC and withdraw a 0.064, a 0.032, a 0.016, a 0.08, a 0.04, and a 0.02 chip in a couple of different transactions over the space of a few days. Does it make any difference to my privacy that I've deposited 0.128 BTC as opposed to 0.12745902 BTC?

I'd be quite happy if they didn't. The less they reveal about the amount of money they handle and the amount of profit they take, then the better the privacy for all their users.

Depositing 0.128 is the same as depositing 0.12845902 BTC for someone trying to find your withdrawal transaction. Anyone looking at the blockchain will be looking at the same subset of transactions because you cannot withdraw the remaining 0.00045902 btc, and it would be ignored.

To maximize privacy, you should donate at least one chip from your deposit. The more chips you donate, the greater your privacy.

If you can afford to wait a few days (or more accurately - until a large number of other chips of same or smaller size has been redeemed) does it matter at all if you donate? It would seem that you can achieve any anonymity set size just by waiting long enough.

I've always (possibly mistakenly) assumed that most people use mixed funds immediately and that's a higher privacy risk... that can be reduced by donations.

We use "Pay what you want" as pricing strategy. It mean you set how much value our service is to you. Many bitcoin owners value privacy and trust we give them.

Donations are better for privacy as nobody knows how much you will withdraw. But choice how much and when is even better. Today donate less, tomorrow donate more and in between you can keep voucher to alter withdrawal amounts.

Chip Mixer has a 6% house edge game too right?

It's the highest house edge of any Bitcoin gaming I can think of off the top of my head... even higher than FreeBitco.in's dice game.

Another member asked a general question about signature campaigns few days ago https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5283463.msg55422065#msg55422065 BlackHatCoiner could have taken the idea from there.

You are two years late. They disabled their "casino" a long time ago.

Better late than never!

It's still on their homepage and FAQ.

I'm also curious about this before but never tried to ask since I think it's awkward to ask a company revenue since this is I think private matters. But since Chipmixer already answer the question by OP better to lock this thread to avoid any unnecessary post from the other users here.
 
Check the quoted messaged which is the answer of CM if you miss to read it OP.

I don't understand what you don't understand :)
If, in a result of the advertising campaign, new customers come to the company, and those who have already started using it earlier remain because they like the service, it means that everything is fine.
If the number of customers and profits they generate for the company allow Chipmixer to pay for such a campaign on Bitcointalk, then participants should be happy.
They invest money in advertising -> advertising attracts customers -> customers generate profit -> profit is greater than costs.
This is how business works.

Well, yea. If their signature campaign didn't actually help their website gain more visitors and users, they would've closed the campaign already. There's a reason why 3 years later the campaign is still up— because they're making more than they're paying their participants.

Bitcointalk is obviously number one cryptocurrency forum, and maybe some of the owners of Chipmixer are one of the first bitcoiners and forum members also.
Even if they don't earn so much today, they are helping and increasing privacy for everyone, and I am sure they earned enough btc so far.
Noble mission for sure, and nearly impossible to reach for any other mixer competition.
That is just my wild theory, and I can be totally wrong ;)

I kept wondering in this scenario about how this chipmixer pays this huge sum of money to participants weekly, so I definitely think they somehow generates excess money every week, however, I have a feeling that bitcoin mixing services gets more revenue or income than gambling services, I'm open for correction if I'm wrong.
But here is my simple question, so many campaigns claiming to be mixing bitcoin have been launched on the forum, why can't they pay as much as chipmixer does,? also their campaign duration isn't lasted than chipmixer, what's the strategy used by chipmixer over other mixing services?

They are making money from fees, no business would operate without making money and no business would spend a huge amount for advertising if they are not making more than they spend, but in terms of figure, it's only chipmixer can answer that, but only one thing is certain, they are not giving free money though they are very generous with their signature campaign.

The reason could be they aren't yet popular as a crypto mixer, they don't want to invest in advertisement marketing strategy just what Chiopmixer did.
Another factor is that they hired good poster members in the forum and most of them are very active in the technical discussion that might get more interest to the Chipmixer clients.  Also, I saw most promoters are staff members on the forum.

No doubt this could be the reason, another factor is the manager has managed the signature campaign very well in choosing the right person who will wear the signature of Chipmixer and promote.  When I saw a post that wore Chipmixer signature, I know they are a good poster and always give good advice.  How much more if there are newbies or visitors in the forum that want to user Chipmixer.

In overall, pros have to outweigh cons!
Where can they promote their service in traditional web? I don't mean dark ones. Bitcointalk is the best place for that. If you look deeply, you'll see that they have a lot of high-quality posters in almost every aspect: High-quality posters in bitcoin discussion board, technical board, economics board, gambling board. They cover all the boards with an insane amount of quality and well-known posters, in overall it looks like they conquered this forum (in a good way).
Every single bitcoin that is sent on an advertisement brings them customers. It's like they have to giveaway money in order to receive it and even more. Convert money into clients and then clients into more money.

The main question is already answered by chipmixer, so nothing to add from my side.

Except that you missed the point where Chipmixer doesn't charge any specific or fix fees to their customers unlike other businesses. It's "Pay what you want" as mentioned in the previous comment. Other businesses would have shutdown in the first month of operation using the same model.

They cannot pay the same and they don't last since they don't make the same money as Chipmixer. Customers see CM's mixing method as top notch that's why they keep using it whenever they want to.

Chipmixer was able to build a reputation over the years so it wouldn't matter even if other mixers copy their strategy. You can also add the fact that it hasn't been busted by authorities yet unlike other mixers launched before and they haven't scammed anyone afaict.

I think people always forget to look at a business objectively and understand that good businesses make money by providing good service first of all. Obviously if they pay 1 BTC every week then you know that is at least what they are making every week (but surely more). Then you know they must be mixing so well that people keep coming back to them. Second is customer service.

Just like any other business!

I thought that even using this commission model they have a at least minimum set.
It is true that choosing only the form of a donations and collecting the appropriate minimum to run such an expensive campaign is a high risk. However, if they do it for so long, it means that customers are very generous to them.

DarkStar_ carefully selected ChipMixers campaign participants. They cover the whole forum and they write in the most followed boards (including Locals) as per ChipMixer business model. They have a few Staff, many old-timers, merit sources, big merit receivers, etc.
This makes a difference since their advertising coverage is great. These are the reasons for their success and their ability to pay big.

Chip mixer is making lot of money that is why they can afford such an expensive campaign for almost 3 and half years with no change in their pay rate. You will get so much in returns if you do something worthy with free of costs. People who cares about the privacy are not going to be worried about few hundred bucks as tip when the job gets done so they are making a lot more than paying to their participants. :D

There's no doubt about that one. There's no other logical reason how they're able to sustain paying all these members wearing their signature. I'm only pointing out that it's not guaranteed that Chipmixer will make money even if they managed to bring in users from their marketing efforts.

Paying a voluntary fee to CM will result in their customers receiving a greater value from their services. For most other businesses, paying a different/higher fee does not in itself cause the business' product to improve.

Personally I feel the business model is very smart. If you want to take the time (I did) you can mix coins for free, that helps build confidence in the service. Then another time when you want a bit better privacy yet, maybe even mixing the same coins you had mixed for free already, you won't mind paying something for the service.

And you only need a few big users every week to earn decently, keep in mind some BTC users have hundreds or thousands of BTC...

Also, for a mixing service, the more inputs the better, so every user counts.

first service is free and the next service with a better privacy is still free ? what about the third one .

im waiting for you to say that the second session with a better service are now going to be paid .
a one time free trial is not bad for a promotion  and they can easily gain the confidence of their costumers because the mixer existed for many years now but i heard before that chipmixer wasnt really free and thats how they make money  .

You totally misunderstood what he/she said. ChipMixer is totally free, and you only pay them how much you want to pay them. And yes, you could use their service as much as you want without paying them a single penny(but of course, it wouldn't hurt to support services that you like using).

It's simple, the unique service is appreciated by the crypto community.
A simple profit-making scheme is paying off.

That's not what I said, but yes, you can use it for free every time. There would be no way for chipmixer to know you are a returning customer, since they're deleting data, for obvious reasons.

I believe everyone talked about Chipmixer alone, but nobody talked about the closure of many such mixing services which actually proved to be in favor of Chipmixer because none others could give the standard of service Chipmixer offers, which is why many of those got cracked down and Chipmixer is still in the game. Donations are a second thing, but when you have a shop in a city and that you know that it's only your shop where the basic necessities of an average Joe can be met, just think how much Chipmixer will be making already. ;)

Many new services have entered this mixing industry but Chipmixer is still on top of them and nobody can deny that fact. It's not about the money they spend, but the money they make through their business.