Bitcoin Forum

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Hey BitcoinTalk-Community,

I have the feeling, that at the moment there are more "Shitcoins" outside, than ever. All those copy and paste coins even existed before, sure! But I have the feeling, in the past it was much clearer and above all easier to filter out good projects... Especially for the "newbies" among us: Stay tuned, read and understand as much as you can, about cryptocurrency and Blockchain. At first Bitcoin...

Start to evaluate, where it might be worthwhile to invest. Or even better, collect proven coins, like Bitcoin and Ethereum, which both, but especially Bitcoin, still have a huge potential, I think! I'm also optimistic about Ethereum, but I have to wait for the upgrade and the changeover to POS, to form a final opinion to myself....

I am sure, that especially with Bitcoin, in the long run, a 6 digit course (over $100k) will not be unattainable in any way. Whether we will still experience the million... Hmm...
Difficult to estimate, but it's not impossible! We are still in a kind of "early" phase, and the cork will pop again within the next 2-3 years, I'm sure...

I don't think I am too naive, I just observe a lot. And I am a very thoughtful person. Our society has been undergoing an interesting change for some years now. Times in which a lot of great, but also a lot of misery is produced. If you ask me, the misery is all the fault of our completely "capitalised" banking states, and in view of that, it should not even exist. Not in view to the technological progress of the last 100 years. Not in times when people commit a crime, when they take thrown away but still perfectly good food from a container next to the Supermarket, which is intended for waste collection! To name just one example...

And this is also one of the other important parameters, that Satoshi wanted to bring into our all minds, next to possible profit thinking.

There is no question that there are advantages in be this as it is. That our world is the way it is... Especially for people like us, who live in countries like USA, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Great Britain and these many other "rich" countries...
 
But Satoshi came at exactly the right time, to put in question the whole thing. And of course, in the beginning these people "up there", in their oversized offices and marble desks with tropical wood and ivory decorations tried to badmouth Bitcoin. It is best to "liquidate" him like an ulcer. Keeping it small. And defaming the users of them as criminals.

And what happens now? Exactly, all of a sudden, Bitcoin is being tried to where integrated into our broken and corrupted financial system, quiet and undercover... All according to the motto: If the enemy is too strong, make him your friend... Or keep your enemies close to you, to maintain "some measure" of control...

My opinion on that, that can only go wrong. And it is currently moving in the wrong direction, as the banking states are more than aware of the danger. They want to take away our decentralisation and anonymity completely, and "exploit" this really important "Good for our Mankind" as well they do to all other resources of our mankind. But I believe, that we still have the possibility, to turn this into another direction. Anyone should only let the "victim" believe, that he can only profit from the current system... And never give him the feeling, that he is really a "victim". The exploitation can begin....

At the latest, if people like us, continue to form us and grow. If we concentrate on Satoshi's real Visions (surely not BSV), we can prevent Bitcoin from become just another victim of our financial system, almost a prostitute.

As I said before, I don't want to speak bad of the current situation, in which many people of us live. I also live on the side of those ones, who currently still benefit. But it is a lie allegedly to dont know, that this always work under acceptance of the misery of other people in our world. This is a big unfairness, that will probably not change much in the lifetime of any of us, unfortunately... But we can help to make the world a better place. And that, damn it, not only when almost everything is already too late... (I am just saying climate change etc.) You just have to understand, what Bitcoin can really do, and how you can use them, to "take away" what is so important to those people "up there", at their marble desks, with tropical wood and ivory ornaments. But this can only be achieved, as a strong community working together towards the same goal...

I know, it might even be a little curious, what I'm trying to say you all here... Think of it more as a hypothesis. My hypothesis! With this text, I would like to encourage the one or other among us, to have a view  at "The Whole Picture". And not only to this part, from which for a few moments you think you can earn money in some way. But often you are disabused... This thinking, something would be self-evident, is a thinking with which one can talk everything well for yourself. But who already really question things nowadays? Unfortunately, we are taught nothing else than "be yourself the nearest to yourself", even if its sold to you, as if it were quite normal and good...

The world economy MUST and WILL change. The "up there" already know that! The question is, to whose advantage...or disadvantage!!!???

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Thank you for reading, I wish you a great day :)

SiNeReiNZzz (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=251328)

Try to make the text shorter. Not many people read long topics, so you may not find that many people have read it.
Bitcoin is a great thing and one of the currencies that entered into force and occupied a place among digital currencies, but this does not mean that there are no alternatives that have resolved the solution with confidence
It means that you accompany other people from different specialties to have several people you trust.

TL:DR

If you're making a long read like this make sure the title is intriguing to catch someone's interest. I can basically share my thoughts with the topic without reading your post LOL.

Anyways, my thought on bitcoin's future is always positive though we can see things now that it is going very well especially when the news came out from Paypal that they are going to include cryptocurrencies with their services, this is just a first step of becoming a globally accepted currency of bitcoin. As of now, there are enthusiast merchants who have been accepting bitcoin for payment that I expect to increase next year.

I know that this article has become a bit long.
But still better than a one liner...

Yes PayPal has definitely given another important boost, to promote bitcoin and its acceptance
Especially away from this myth it would be the currency for criminals...

I have taken your suggestion to heart and have changed the title... Thank you for your tip!
Nevertheless it's sad for me, that you do not want to read it...
But I can understand and I am not angry with you!  :)

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Yes this has escalated a bit... :D

I fully agree with you, but I wanted to talk deliberately about Bitcoin.

I have also briefly touched on Ethereum.
And of course there are other good projects.
But many of them with completely different objectives and use cases...

If I had mentioned this here as well, it would definitely have gone a lot more text in my post...

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But maybe there are still 1-2 people here who have no problem with long texts like this... I would be pleased!  :)

In the early days there was much less altcoins around, and many of the altcoins were actually a honest attempt to build something using the foundation that Bitcoin has settled. It's only later, when crypto prices started skyrocketing, the scammers came in masse and start releasing, pumping and dumping shitcoins for their own profit.

However, just having good intentions is not enough. Take Litecoin, one of the earliest altcoins - it always performed rather poorly, as it was always just following Bitcoin, and it failed to bring any true innovation and achieve mass adoption. Lightning Network will make obsolete any altcoin that claims lower fees/faster times as its main benefits.

You are relating Bitcoin to so many things in this post and tried to view it from different vantage points. It is so hard to discuss them all as one. You could have broken it down and tried to start a more focused discussion one specific thought at a time.

Anyway, to a certain extent the economy is a system which works under a larger system. Both systems are replete with unfair rules, of course, but the way the economy works is only as far as the larger system allows. Unfortunately, Bitcoin is not enough to disrupt the larger system and so it can hardly challenge the current way the economy is running.

The existence of Bitcoin is one which is characterized with freedom. Nobody owns and controls it; nobody has the power to stop it; nobody can take it away from you; and so forth. But anybody as rich as the current powerful elites can buy huge portions of its supply or as many as they want. In other words, they are very free to keep their wealth, influence, and power intact regardless of whether or not Bitcoin could significantly disrupt the current economic system that it crumbles it down and replace it with something else.

In which case, I'm afraid this is not going to happen with Bitcoin alone:

You put the spotlight on the problem directly, I and many bitcoin lovers share these concerns with you, yes, this is exactly what happens. Governments have not been able to defeat their first enemy, Bitcoin, so they try to destroy its reputation and try to change its basic features such as decentralization and anonymity.
I will give you a very clear example of that, recently Paypal's acceptance of bitcoin caused a sensation in the world of crypto, but unfortunately Paypal will not allow the deposit of bitcoin, but only sell it, buy it and store it within the wallet, as well as users will not be able to obtain their private keys !!! This eliminates the concept of Bitcoin completely and turns it into something else hateful and resembles the current banking system, and this is exactly what governments want.

Though it's odious ultimately it doesn't really matter. Anyone who uses Paypal immediately excludes themselves from the actual Bitcoin network. It's a few database entries moving around and nothing more.

That isn't controlling or undermining Bitcoin. It may be sidelining potential users. If they wise up they will leave and seek out the real deal.

I dont mind read everything you have spent your time writing. The only thing confusing me is why would you have to make a new line for each sentence. It's kinda messy but overall, I respect your words. Everyone has their own opinions and there is no restriction on how you choose to share your thoughts

Our world has been through many centuries and many changes have been made in order to for us to become what we are today. That is what makes us different from other animals. We fight, we live, and then, we evolve. But we not just evolve our physical body, our minds have deeply changed since the dawn of humankind. But as I realize, only a minority of us can really create a revolution that is strong enough to change our current system. Just look at the past, you cant deny that the minority was always the leader of everything.

In the future, I would love to see how bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies involving in our life

Well, the system used for the economy right now was and is developing to be quite big, and you can certainly say that holes would appear one way or another inside so it's actually understandable that we progressed to such a state to date. Still, as you said, we still benefit from it currently, and Bitcoin trying to remove that old system is probably impossible, I'm more of the belief that it would coexist instead, mainly dealing with processes that are needed to be particularly transparent.

As for the issue of unfairness, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but it and would stay as a natural thing till we somehow remove certain factors from us being humans. What those are is kind of hard to discuss since every factor has its own advantages and disadvantages so it's kind of useless to do so, but hey who knows, they may actually find some solution for that. Inequality is huge and happens everywhere, to the point that even if a community were to stand and go against it, there would barely be any effect.

Governments usually against with Bitcoin since transactions were hard to be taxed, this is a threat for them since its decentralized and there's no way they will be able to get it unless they will do their own cryptocurrency which is somehow may not be used by their people since Bitcoin is much better than any other altcoins which I hope is stated by this thread

I also think that Bitcoin is somewhat impractical in terms of transactions. Especially with regard to the cost per transaction, which is related to the time it takes for a payment to be processed until the the first confirmation.
But whether the Lightning network can solve the problem, I cannot judge. I only know that apart from technical problems, the general acceptance is relatively low...

I don't want to speak bad about Altcoins, I have also been using Litecoin for years, because the block time is much shorter and the transactions are extremely cheap!
And where you can use Bitcoin as a accept of payment, you can usually pay parallel with LTC. My favourites among the Altcoins are Litecoin, Dogecoin, Ethereum, IOTA and Tezos...

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Well, among few other things I have explained that Bitcoin in its originally intended form, is unfortunately rather destroyed under the present circumstances.
And that we as users should think about how we can continue to develop and use it wisely, before it is completely taken away from us and incorporated into our financial system...

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Ohh you must have actually taken the time and read my thoughts to the end. Thanks for that. Because only when you have read it to the end does the text make sense and form a coherent picture, I think!

Although, especially with regard to PayPal, there is again such a dichotomy.
Just because it is in a way not a bad thing to make Bitcoin available to a wider audience. But as soon as some state powers start to integrate Bitcoin into their laws and systems, it will be dangerous, I think.

Governments all have something in common, as in Germany, Great Britain or the USA, for example, they are controlled by a financially strong banking lobby. And if these banking lobbys make the wrong decisions, they always have the freedom to print new money. And we see all this as normal. True to the motto: Give people "prosperity" and they will trust the System. Many people benefit from this system, no question. But facts prove that unsecured capital leads in the long run to a big bubble that will definitely burst at some point...

World economy do not really need to change, I mean it should but it doesn't have to which is why we are still in this situation all together. You think wealthy care about humanity? They do not even care about themselves at this point, more and more money until they die is the only thing they care about and nothing will change that.

We are talking about climate change and world becoming both drought in the bone dry lands and also sea levels rising to gobble up the sea-side places right? Which means even if you own 10 trillion dollars all in cash in a big vault at your home and could buy any nation you want type of wealthy, you wouldn't be able to find water that easily, you would have to wait, rich are going to get affected by mother nature as much as anyone else. What do they do? They continue to hurt it, because they could make few billion more this quarter, they are idiots.

Yes true, I read your article to the end, although some members here found it long, because I liked it and found it full of deep ideas and worth reading to the end.
As for Paypal, I am not against PayPal's adoption of Bitcoin, because as you mentioned, it is good for Bitcoin to spread widely in the world despite some negative aspects that could change in the future. But the fear is that governments will intervene under the pretext of regulating Bitcoin and then making it subject to their control and canceling all of its features that gave Bitcoin its great popularity.

Well, as I saw here in my own perspective view since OP has a lot of topics to discuss but it gave me more ideas of what could be or what couldn't be the future of bitcoin. If bitcoin lovers would like to have a global acceptance then they must face the reality that government will intervene and or will take control over it but if we will stand to its main idea as a decentralized currency then it will be a struggle for bitcoin holders to get its goal of global acceptance for no government will let it happen since that the economy of their country depends on the currency that circulates in the market. However, it is -- sad but that is true the government and the economy work hand in hand and the economy depends on the currency that works and circulates to its citizens.

No matter what Satoshi Nakamoto's reason in inventing bitcoin, I believe that he wants to bring an easy and fast transaction in paying or sending curreny in the whole world through the use of internet. He leave us an astonishing invention that will be used wherever you are. It is safe and secured to use bitcoin. But because of its volatility, people made it as an asset rather than a currency only. We utilized bitcoin more through the ways of investment. And nowadays, the existence of other cryptocurrency give us more opportunity to make our future more bright and useful.

There are really good projects at the Altcoins, but only a handful.
But 1000 times more shitcoins...
I only own Litecoin, Ethereum, Tezos and IOTA!

Litecoin has an advantage because the acceptance is high, and costs per transaction low.
Etherum...ähm yes, there we wait for 2.0...
Tezos has an interesting concept...and i hold them since the ICO!  ;D
And IOTA is the future (when they achieve projects goals)

Lightning is also an interesting thing, but the acceptance is very low, is my feeling...
I have never been asked if I could also send by Lightning! Therefore have only dealt with it roughly...

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We can only wait and see how the topic with PayPal is going to develop...

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Let me just remind you of the "Genesis Block":  :)

I'm not sure if this thread is suitable for the economics board.
Anyways, Bitcoin is a technology, and I can't think of a technology that has ideology attached to it. Everyone can use technology; they can come and go as they please (I think it's in the Satoshi WP).

Everyone can use, set up nodes, mine, etc., doesn't matter if it's a bank or your grandmother. The goal, of course, about all people own and use Bitcoin as money. What else?

As for the banks getting involved and taking away our anonymity; I think this will depend on people. Even if banks starts working with cryptocurrency these days, that doesn't mean that everyone must be making use of banks to trade cryptocurrency, there will still be those platforms we have known for years now which are decentralized and it will be up to you on whether you want to make use of them or choose the banks as a means.

Although many people are going to be choosing banks since they will make things easier for them, which will attract more and more people. So, it's totally up to us. And Bitcoin is not anonymous though, and I also heard that even coin mixers in some countries are now required to gather some information from people, so that if the government wants to trace, even if you mix the coins, they will still be able to trace you.

In fact it's already been proven that Bitcoin has shown better potential than Ethereum and its solidity is higher as compared to later one. ETH, on the other hand is growing baby who has it's own "moods", it's playing around sometimes happily and sometimes going rigorous about it. However, it has to be second best choice for everyone I believe.


Estimations are the basis of our excitement in the crypto space! BTC has always been put up as King with throne of 7 heavens!
Considering the worlds collective focus towards Digital world and unimaginable capabilities of the bitcoin, one can put greater stakes on the unit price of bitcoin becoming 6 digits! It's countless market cap and ever growing customer base can do miracles!


I am not sure if Satoshi ever thought about the miseries of pasts since he was man of science and techy visionary, so he might have done all of this out the easiness of transaction. A computing power that can be used for the greater transfers from point A to point B.

Yes of course, profit making may not have been his agenda. But he kept more than 5-6 million BTC's for himself and no one knows the Bigger Plan here.  :P


Quite harsh statement for the banking world but yes true at the same time. No wonder they have already seen the extreme features of BTC which can easily hamper the traditional banking system in no time. That's why many countries and their governments are now actively seeking that mid-way to control the use of BTC under their rules.


Exactly, thats what I wanted to express in above explanation.


Honestly, the advantages depends on various factors. What if banks accepts bitcoin as normal way of transacting alongside the traditional currencies? Well that will just sort out the problem for them and us the users. But again the question is how they will do the implementation without hampering the basic rule of anonymity and big chunks of transaction?

It would be exciting to see this in the up coming future.

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There aren't many ways it can develop. Paypal either keep users in their walled garden while the rest of the world gets on with things completely unimpeded, or they open it up to the real deal.

The only potential threat is them controlling a vast number of customer coins. They can't influence mining or development. A global company stealing, sequestering or losing everyone's coins is not a normal occurrence either.

One other bad thing is that, according to the current state, no user should ever be able to pay out even 1 Satoshi.
Because PayPal considers its users too stupid to be able to handle their private keys safely... ???
Just as you can not deposit Bitcoin etc.

Yes. The bad stuff, in the way it is currently set up, affects Paypal's own customers, not Bitcoin itself.

I can imagine many Paypal users will have the same trajectory. They'll buy it on there, learn more about it, realise they are now trapped and then either attempt to escape or quit in disgust.

This just remind me of a question someone asked in the past (really can't remember the user) whether bitcoin is a money or a currency, many had said bitcoin is a digital currency which cannot be touched differentiating it with fiat currency, and many had said it's a money because you use it for shopping and paying bills, recharging airtime , and even using it to gamble casinos, so what exactly is bitcoin, a currency or money.?

The previous discussion here:
Currency is a subset of money.
My point was about currency as a legal tender, i.e., fiat currencies.

To become a (real) currency, Bitcoin needs to handle everyday transactions, and it seems pretty far away from now. Plus, Bitcoin doesn't have to be mandated (FIAT) so that people will use it.

Since we are under the control of governments then chance of bitcoin and any decentralized currency can become a legal tender in any nation.But people may use bitcoin for buying things if they found it is more beneficial to do compared to fiat money payments.

About the transaction time, I agree with that because bitcoin may not be able to handle huge number of transactions at a same time because the transaction fee will be pushed to inconvenient rates.

No one is going to force you to make use of PayPal, you already have other wallets to make use of, although I know that many people will choose PayPal because it’s accepted on many places online and some people here have always wanted a means to pay with Bitcoin for online shopping platform amazon and with PayPal coming to Bitcoin it’s going to be providing that opportunity for the people that has been in need of it, they will all be able to spend their coins whenever and wherever they want.

But it’s not a must, if their services doesn’t work for you, best to stay out.

Indeed. No one would be forcing you to use PayPal to buy or sell bitcoin with its network because there are other ways for you to use bitcoins. The only reason why some people will use PayPal because it is accepted worldwide and it will be convenient for others to shop online with their bitcoins. But I truly don't recommend using PayPal to store your funds or bitcoins because they are a custodial wallet, which means you don't have a financial freedom with your funds. I also encounter problems making transactions with PayPal, and they didn't make any actions about it even I message them.

I am not really against long texts OP but you need to learn how to summarize your thoughts, it seems you basically blame the current capitalist system for the problems of the world and somehow you think bitcoin can solve them, but I disagree, bitcoin has a capitalist spirit, capitalism is about producing and keep what you have produced for yourself and your own benefit and this is true in bitcoin, bitcoin will not solve the problems of the world like hunger or anything else resembling that, those problems have always been with us and if anything capitalism has helped to alleviate the problem somehow, and even if it has its problems the other systems are way worse and generate way more problems than what hey solve.

Just as I imagined, most people came into bitcoin world around 2017, that is something I have always assumed but I never really had any data, obviously I still don't and it is just a bitcointalk topic and no idea what the reality is, however looking at the past and current situation I could say that 2017 peak times or a bit before or late would probably be the time biggest chunk of crypto people came into the system.

This tells me I have been around for far too long and should have been doing much better right now, I came in around late 2012 early 2013 so I don't know why I still do not have anything. I did had a combined 45 bitcoin in my account so far, but 90% of that came in when price didn't mean anything and that makes me feel upset that I didn't hold any of them at all.

It sad to know the story of yours. You can become millionaire bro because you are legendary member. You may earn a lot of bitcoin in this forum. Just be patient and wait for your time. We have our own sunshines because no matter how unlucky we are, there are times that opportunities will open to us. Atleast, the good thing you have is you know bitcoin much than others. Bitcoin is not only a currency. It serves as a way to become rich.

As I came to know bitcoin about 2015, I got some few bitcoins also at that time but sold also. Anyway, no regrets as I needed the money at that time and also bought that at lower price. Of course, I didn't know that btc will go as high as about 20k at the end of 2017. But was also not a member of this forum yet. And I'm just glad that I know bitcoin and learned this technology and that actually help me in some way to augment my financial needs today. So thanks to Satoshi!  :)

I think we have the same date to discover btc at first but unlike you I never got involved of investing or working to earn a btc but I am only reading it's background that time . On what price did you buy your btc ? Btc price that time was around 300 usd and that is already huge for just a crypto that aren't yet popular enough  . You can only regret if you sell at a loss and you didn't end up using the money at a good cause  . You sold your btc before but after knowing that btc have a potential to pump that high did you buy btc again ? You can still make it

Same here! In 2014 I found Bitcoin through an article in a finance news channel, and then I found localbitcoins where I bought my first Bitcoin! Prices were so so lower back then! I wish I hold my btc as I never knew that within three years, Bitcoin will go so high!!! But I think it's still not too late to invest in it, I'm sure it will go above a lot by end of the next decade!

Thanks for your post. I understand that your idea is to share with us that we remember the philosophy because Bitcoin was created under the premise that it works as a decentralized financial system.
It is true that many shitcoins abound in the market that we must be cautious when investing. It is sad that even in this decade there is so much poverty and inequality. While in the world rich men become richer and their wealth predominates in the balance before the inequality of the poor.
We will be attentive to what comes out of PayPal now accepting Bitcoin if it will be a success or will be surpassed by other products.

we cant do anything about it just focus on yourself and dont compare yourself to others. will not do any good on your part.
those crap coins also existed before but not as many as now. because right now, a lot are just copying someone else's work even the website is exact copy. only those fools will send their money to these crap projects. just look at how defi platform is performing in the market. they are enjoying their expensive prices but when you look at their foundation or if they have working platform, nope! nothing! so their fall is very imminent.

Philosophy of bitcoin is something that is long forgotten and that upsets me a lot more than the price of bitcoin as well. People do not realize that satoshi created bitcoin not so that you could get rich, but because he realized that bitcoin could be the answer to not having to work for money that was controlled by someone else.

Fiat currency is controlled by two or three main characters and that is about it, the politicians are the leading ones that control it, the federal banks are the ones that control it with them and lastly if you want to include it financial companies are the next ones but this last one applies in some nations while not on others. With crypto you would have a say in it as a person, president of a nation can't change the 21 million max cap on bitcoin and neither can you, everyone is equal to blockchain and that is why it was created.

While without a doubt 45 BTC is a huge amount of money now it was impossible to know the price of bitcoin will move so quickly, lets take a look at what happened in 2017, when the price hit the 2k level many people sold their coins thinking a crash was inevitable and yet the price kept rising and we reached 10x that amount, so there is not too much of a point lamenting the opportunities you may have lost, what it is important now is to figure out if there is something you can do to improve your future, believe me you could think you are in a bad shape but you are here in this forum and you know more about cryptocurrencies than 99% of the population of the world so you still have a lot of room to increase the number of coins you are holding until the next bull run comes.