Bitcoin Forum

Look this way.

RAM is cheap, way cheaper than most components in an ASIC device, the only reason they are not there, is caused people didn't add more than required.

Example, if more coins use N-scrypt, then it will just be another year before ASIC includes them too.
heck, if I am a scrypt ASIC developer, (which I am not, I do something else related), I will just add that to my device and call it a perk.


I have looked at many angles.. but I cannot see how N-scrypt is even going to be any different from Scrypt.
How is that .. ASIC resistant?  I mean, Litecoin was 'suppose' to be the ASIC resistance to SHA-256, look now.
and N-Scrypt is Waaaaaaaay easier to add comparing to the switch from Sha256 to Scrypt..

can anyone give me a point in the right direction?

but right now, it looks like just a marketing theme only.. am i right?

Long term Scrypt-Jane and Adaptive-N do not make sense, each step up in N factor we see a halving of hashpower and the difficulty in Vertcoin can not even go low enough to support the current hash rate at 2^32, i.e 4GB.

Please take a look at Hirocoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516349.0), it uses the X11 hashing solution which sees triple hash power over Scrypt with a lot less energy and heat used. Long term it will win out over coins that have variable Scrypt N factor.

http://www.hirocoin.org/img/hirocoin.pnghttp://www.hirocoin.org/img/x11small.png (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=516349.0)

you can't just fork a coin that easy. What if certain people don't switch , then you have 2 vertcoins.

the problem is not the RAM size, but the access time to RAM (latency) and bandwith, these are actually are bottle neck, that's why adding more RAM to ASIC will not help

heavycoin algo is even better than x11  ;D

2° less compared to x11

Yeah, that guy just say you can easily add DRAM.

Who will add SRAM into it anyway? The OP also means adding DRAM is really easy and I second that.

N-Scrypt is USELESS, as the above Terry L already mentioned by saying, it is possible to add DRAM.

N-scrypt is not worth it at all, there's no such thing as ASIC resistance, people should jsut get use to that already.
Look at Bitcoin and where it got it. (skyrocketing)

when ASIC comes out, suddenly, N-scrypt coins will have the lowest hashrate of the entire world.
and unless a coin comes out with a really good network, it will just be thrown away completely.

There's no point to it other than 'marketing', it's just another scam.

Indeed, the keyword there is YIELD. As of right now, there's no reason to add it, but it will be added if ever there are more coins with N-scrypt.

also : using fpga and dram is a fine alternative for now.

Indeed DRAM is possible and practical, and makes N-scrypt kinda pointless.

Yeah because a network secured by gpu is going to go places right! cmon scrypt n is just for the miners chasing the dragon still...how about we start really innovating and learning to use the ledger..we already have enough currency type coins! you guys will go and go and go diluting the markets with you gpu cpu coins untill one day they are all worth 0 because thats all everyone is doing is chasing 100% profit all day long and not really contributing to any innovation

It is clear that people don't care about securing networks and creating something that works and is efficient and uses little to no power. People want money now and are expiditing the time where it drys up and they will move on. Leaving people who contributed to asic and proper innovation to prosper long into the future

agreed.

the policy to exclude asics is fundamentaly flawed because ... well ... litecoin.
they intended to exclude asics and see what happened, everyone hyped the coin and it came into the attention of asic manufacturers and they made it happen.

on the other hand accepting asics but limiting their coin intake and making gpus and cpus have a fair chance of mining against asics is what I believe the only way gpu and cpu miners can coexist with asics and that's why myriad coin has the strongest chance of rising above all altcoins.

this is just my personal opinion and it should not be viewed as a coin hyping attempt, I am not urging anyone to buy myriad coin , just look into the concept I believe it's the closest to having a united mining comunity with a fair chance for everyone.

I think we are talking about ASIC right ?

Interesting discussion.

Forexcoin so far running on Scrypt. Scrypt Asic advantages are not huge. It remains to be seen what will happen.

ASIC is a means to a result.
If you want to be specific, then maybe you can say "current gen of Asic doesn't get DRAM added"

though,

1, DRAM solution is there.
2, there are many beyond-GPU solutions

which brings to the same point. N-scrypt, doesn't innovate anything at all.
kinda useless.

KNC 100Mhs on the way ^^ this is beginig

Scrypt-n over before it even started. LOL

Scrypt Asic Manufacturer BlissDevices will use configurable parameters to mine Scrypt-N coins (Yacoin, Vertcoin, Execoin)

http://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoMarkets/comments/2182di/scrypt_asic_manufacturer_blissdevices_will_use/

If that's true, vertcoin devs will switch to something else.

Only Litecoin stuck with scrypt :'(

every good coin gets asics , there's no running away from that.

From the link you mentioned.

So change N to 4096 and that ASIC is useless? K.

Everyone should be embracing the asics they bring legitimacy and proper functionality and security to a network...for gods sake people get it through your thick heads we should be innovating in the block chain thats where its at not the damn hashing algo and running from asics so you can get a little profit.

The world does not want 500 more fucking coins it didn't know it needed. It needs and wants innovation an useful, safe storage. It needs time stamped contracts in a majority rules voted ledger!
most of you are just expediting the day where you become poor and irrelevant again!

In the next 4 months we will see the community change and everyone will be boycotting new coin creation because they are already starting to see how hard it is to make their 100% profit in a week!
hot tip..use the ledger for something useful and you will make your profit sustainable and your kids and their kids will be able to also profit from it.. Or keep chasing stupid new coins crying cause of asics then you will just take what you can now and are saying.."Fuck you kids"..not really surprising though

Time for the community here to snap out of this bullshit! stop being so desperate

Calm down, I just don't want to "pre-order" ASIC for 10k$ from some shady person on the internet, and never make my money back, because by the time/if I obtain said ASIC, the difficulty will be 10 times higher (because everyone else buys ASIC too), and that shady person on the internet will be selling some new "next-gen" ASICs that will render my current ASIC useless.

I don't understand why people want to do that to themselves, do they not know what's happening to Bitcoin mining?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/assets/difficulty/bitcoin-hash_rate-all.png

I understand why people like El Dude think that ASICs are good, for some reason they think price follows the difficulty.

Also, what's wrong with GPUs? Anyone can buy them (without retarded 6 month preorders), and you can't fill the whole warehouse with them (high electricity consumption!) which equals decentralisation.

It is wrong at beginning since they claim that it can use the same device to mine Vertcoin and Yacoin.
If you look into algorithm, you will know why I say like this.

This thread is pretty much full of Scrypt-ASIC orderer's who want to convince themselves that their purchase wasn't worthless, by telling everyone that ASIC-resistant coins will never happen or take hold.

How is it greed that the single rig operators want to still be able to make money off their hardware?  I think it's greed from the ASIC purchasers, telling the community to stop making or developing a coin that their preordered device can't mine!

I'm sure you Titan purchaser's are solely buying it to secure the blockchain and make the network more secure and the world a better place  ::)

BlissDevices is another company with fake images up.  None of those products exist in any real sense yet or outside of paper ideas.

Alpha T is a bust, people in that thread are scrambling to figure out where their money is and hoping to even get a refund.  BFL round 2.

Gridseeds are worthless tech that are dropping fast in price, and will never see a ROI unless you purchase 40+.  Then your stuck with specific hardware that can be resold for peanuts by the time it is close to breaking even...

AlcheMiner is another scam ASIC scrypt miner site trying to steal your money.

So go ahead, convince yourself that ASICs are key and you will be able to mine any and every coin out there, regardless of algorithm.  New companies are popping up everyday with preorders and photoshop devices, get on it!

If you think your ASIC can just "make a switch and change a setting" to do Scrypt-N, you are very wrong.  Read this and hopefully you will understand http://kolinevans.wordpress.com/2014/03/02/why-there-could-be-a-mini-revolution-occuring-in-crypto-currency/

I'm about to launch a $5000 500 MH/s Scrypt-ALL miner, it does Scrypt/-N/-Jane, x11, and heavy algos ALL AT THE SAME TIME.  Only 1 BTC to secure your unit!  1DXcJTGf88mLVtJGimYnMiiUmFih34UuHV

I wasn't really aiming that at you to begin with but now it seems more relevant.

Show me many accounts of this "shady person on the internet" that robbed someone out of asic money that never roi, frankly every asic i have ever bought and i own bfl mini rigs also have all gained roi
and the ones i revived recently are looking to roi within a few months...to normal people that is fine...most of you fools seem to think that money should fall out of the sky for you and you should get a return on you investment within weeks at close to 40% interest..well you are in the wrong game for that to happen constantly and should go get into the lending game

Fact is mainstreamer don't give a fuck about the shit you're justifying your cries over. They want a bloody plug and play device thats in a damn box they don't have to build, they certainly don't give a shit their $1,500 for 8mh wont arrive until october and wont roi for at least 4 months, any profit is profit to smart people, you seem like a bunch of spoil little brats that to me really haven't ever come into money like you have in this space or worked a hard bloody day in your lifes. You certainly cant be over the age of 25 or else you would at least understand how hard it is to save and how long it would normally take an investment to mature

You kids, and some immature adults need to do a bit of learning and stop chasing massive profits in this space right now..its so dead i cant even begin to explain how fucking diluted and dead this space is right now because most of you came into it when there was hype and or have forgotten where its been in its past and how much work still needs to be done here

Im ranting because i've had just about enough of watching you bloody fools head towards the meat mincer, you are all sending yourself to hell in such a way your enjoying the ride and its just bonkers to watch you all do this

You have pushed, just about every decnet dev out of this scene because of the total lack of quality, they wont talk to you they wont show their face in this sub forum because its just full of fucking cry baby miner cunts and its time to stop the shit..the buck stops here and until you cunts clean up your acts we will never have an decent devs show their faces nor will they ever waste their time here!

Stop going on and on and on about new coins and algos and arguing in threads about utter garbage and start fucking making money the real way!!! do something that is productive, stop refreshing your pool page to see if you are getting max shares, start making services and working with one another to make useful sites and market this place some instead of crying on about how asic is going to ruin the world

People don't want to have to spend time here trying to figure out how to setup a gpu miner nor the cost that is involved they just want shit like a plug and play device that prints money. Shit they even want usb miners to feel like they are contributing to this space! they certainly don't want to come here and find out they have to fucking watch the forums day and night to know what bloddy coin to mine so they can gain
any kind of return...Stop turning this place into a wasteland and start taking some ownership of it treat it right and for fucks sake stop supporting any kind of new algo especially scrypt-n bullshit thats power hungry and gpu intensive get a fucking grip on yoruslefs. Your new shitcoin is not going to take over btc and ltc so stop dreaming it will!

we still have x11/heavycoin algo/syncoin algo

where is your asic now?


yeah they secure the network lmao

they secure knc portfolio

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2182nb/kncminers_ceo_sam_cole_dumping_bitcoins_worth/

I own both asic and gpu i spread my risk but i'm being as realistic and un bias as i can this shit needs to stop however you want to justify your statement about "this is just about asic owners justifying" "...bullshit, as if gpu miners arnt complacent and to comfortable that they don't like the idea of having to sell off their gear and scale up or morph into other projects that make money...good things don't last forever..none of them are helping anyone by trying to make a coin that suits there hardware because i guarantee i'm not buying anymore gpu! because frankly gpu mining has been the most pain in the ass and to me the biggest waste of time ive ever come across


lmao btw AHAHAHAH thanks for proving how dense and stupid you are "Gridseeds are worthless tech that are dropping fast in price, and will never see a ROI unless you purchase 40+" lol wtf is the difference between 40 and 1...gawd please try again with something that is substantiated

;D
Lets all give money to ASIC manufacturers, they'll secure the network and make us rich ;D

GPU mining has already almost ROI for me, maybe you just suck at putting together computers.  It took maybe 2 hours to build and configure, been running 24/7 since.  Only recently moved a couple over to Vert, which took 20 minutes to change from regular scrypt.

I had an ASIC SHA256 miner, but sold it just 2 days before it dropped almost 50% in price and 30% in efficiency in one difficulty jump.  

I also bought all of my rigs in late November-December full well planning on selling around May and re-evaluating mining as a whole.  Considering how fast SHA256 changed, how fast Scrypt is changing, I'm still sticking to it.  I've already gotten most of my investment back, and the rigs are still at 80-100% of what I bought them for, I'm still on track to double my money.

Good luck trying to sell Gridseeds for $200 / e even by the summer ::)

And the difference between 1 and 40 isn't much.  Your still looking at over 170 days before ROI, and that's with 0% difficulty, and cheap electric at 0.06 (which is what I pay), starting today.  1% difficulty your looking at near next year.  2% increase puts them into 2015 before your seeing a profit.  https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/calculator  Show me a calculator that says otherwise and I'll STFU.  :-*

If you can get them for $100-$150 then I consider it good profit, and worth buying hardware that is essentially worthless outside this "space".

i will not sell my little farm. will not buy more gpus ether. there will always be coins worth mining outside asic development. so i just drain all the juices off the gpus i got and then sell the rest of pc parts on ebay.

Either way, my point I think is abundantly proved.


Scrypt-N, is pointless, and offer no Protection from ASIC and other mining device at all.

glad to see people on both camps.
but I think in the end, the obvious is obvious.

x11 for the win.

https://i.imgur.com/r74j3pi.png

You do realize that mainstream people are not even bothering with SHA256 ASICs, right? You realize that mainstream people entered this game AFTER Doge came in with easy to mine with GPU currency?
You do realize that MANY miners are mainstream people that just wanted to pay back a part of their investment in a high end gaming GPU?
Ofc the rich investors with millions to invest will focus on ASICs, but those guys have the connections and the capital to invest in SHA256 ASICs, so they have no reason to care about Scrypt ASICs...

quark still seems the most secure multiple hashing algorithm to me.

This is the PERFECT example of why ASICs should be kept out of the mining landscape as much as possible, the only ones who win from ASICs are the goddamn companies that make them.

N-scrypt is pointless cause all it does, it destroy the next work hash rate for potential hacking.

a network needs hashrates.
the higher the N goes, the few people will mine.

people who wants it, uses ASIC, mine LTC/Doge, and buy whatever currency they need.
Sounds like a good plan if you want a coin to get a high pump value. true to that.

BUT, you do this in the cost of having no one using ASIC at you to secure your network.

eventually when every coin has 50Gh/s and you have only 2Gh/s?  You will be known as the coin with the least security.
Or people will think so, then one single incident will cause people to dump the coin into oblivion. At least, there's a risk of that.

ASIC, is a GOOD thing people.
A coin is not suppose to be hard to mine,
it is suppose to be secured.

Ultimated, the Devs and the community decides the fate.
not ASIC or not.

just mine darkcoin

The best solution to date is to not run from ASICs. Rather, include them all ingeniously. See: MyriadCoin.

If somebody has ASICs for Scrypt then he has butthurt by Scrypt-N. Very good.  ;D
http://www.reddit.com/r/vertcoin/comments/212ksm/bliss_devices_ceo_says_their_asics_can_change/cg90upb (http://www.reddit.com/r/vertcoin/comments/212ksm/bliss_devices_ceo_says_their_asics_can_change/cg90upb)

Take your 430kh and don't ever reply to my posts again you stupid little girl! This is a conversation between adults. You have no clue what you're re talking about.

I find this topic interesting.

I have always found myself split between what ASIC does for a coin...

I think it is 'fair' to say it goes both ways.

in the end, we all all learn something :)

your claim is true for a Scrypt-N coin that has a increase-the-N in every few months.
It is true that every time the N increases by 1, the net hash rate drops about to half, but that is given the total miner stays the same with their current mining equipments.
So you think people would still be using R9 cards when N is 32ish, which is about year 2694 for Vertcoin.

The N schedule just means nothing to you, does it.

Jumping off the Litecoin train ,you say , that's why I dropped more then a 100 spots on the litecoin rich list.The top 100 are scooping up the cheap Ltc while everyone here is distracted by all these shitcoins.

Scrypt will be completely abandoned and only remembered as a short lived stone age technology.
The whole concept of Scrypt is retarded and obsolete, and Scrypt-N and all the other variants are even worse, get over it.

BTC and LTC are both failed concepts, but you would never admit it.
What happened to your holy decentralized Bitcoin? It ended up in the hands of a few.
They gave a bad name to crypto currencies in general.
Reality will strike you pretty soon. Bend over and happy bag holding!

Look at all the crap coins released these days. You see anything Scrypt there?

How could the two top coins with the highest market caps be failed concepts ???

Because you had 5 years and all the capital in the world to bring some innovation to the table, but all you were doing was lining your pockets.
And the direction of developments made were just to secure that status.
You and your crowd gave cryptos a bad name. Totally funky image.
More and more unusable as an everyday financial instrument.
It failed already, but most of you just won't acknowledge.

So another breed of cryptos is evolving. All you do is insist, bashing, distorting, throwing tabloid propaganda.
You still have time to shift, but not for very much longer. There is a mudslide coming your way.
The liquidity could vanish in days. What you had going for you with a very big leverage, could turn against you even stronger.
Whoever is going to invest in crypto is certainly not throwing any more money at Bitcoin or Litecoin.

We need fresh air in an already stinking, crooked market.

Sorry but you have rocks in your head Sir Richard Branson, Andreessen Horowitz, Barry Silbert, Peter Thiel, just to name a few and i'm going to go out on a limb here and assume they would all disagree with you and they are worth more then you could ever dream of being!

Time to kick back and let the seasoned investors take over...ever heard the saying stick to what you know..I'd say focus on mining your shitcoin and stay out of convos that have anything to do with money cause to me its clear that you are well disconnected and misinformed