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Title: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: K.A.T on November 25, 2011, 08:11:39 PM It would be interesting to see this doing some mining for Botcoin :D
http://www.pugetsystems.com/aquarium-computer.php Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 25, 2011, 08:19:41 PM I don't think the first link is the link you want.
Cooling w/ mineral oil is possible however there are a couple of issues. 1) Heat conductivity of mineral oil is relatively low compared to water. This means a larger flow rate is required. 2) Resale of equipment is essentially zero 3) Mineral oil is viscous (thick) so to it requires more powerful pump than distilled water. 4) Mineral oil is relatively expensive as a working fluid. It would be an interesting project but I doubt it would be any cheaper than water cooling. Any money you would save by not needing a waterblock would be offset by much more expensive pump, large amounts of expensive mineral oil, and container to submerge components. For example that kit there is about $600 and requires 12 gallons of mineral oil = $120. So $720. That is more than my watercooling kit for 3x5970s. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: SgtSpike on November 25, 2011, 08:40:01 PM I don't think the first link is the link you want. 1) Not necessarily. Since the oil is in direct contact with computing surfaces, whereas water must run through a waterblock, Not much of a flow rate is necessary. Sure, if you ran mineral oil through a waterblock, you'd need a much higher flow rate. But comparing the two as-is is apples and oranges.Cooling w/ mineral oil is possible however there are a couple of issues. 1) Heat conductivity of mineral oil is relatively low compared to water. This means a larger flow rate is required. 2) Resale of equipment is essentially zero 3) Mineral oil is viscous (thick) so to it requires more powerful pump than distilled water. 4) Mineral oil is relatively expensive as a working fluid. It would be an interesting project but I doubt it would be any cheaper than water cooling. Any money you would save by not needing a waterblock would be offset by much more expensive pump, large amounts of expensive mineral oil, and container to submerge components. For example that kit there is about $600 and requires 12 gallons of mineral oil = $120. So $720. That is more than my watercooling kit for 3x5970s. 2) No - components can be cleaned with rubbing alcohol or distilled water easily enough. 3) Again, apples to oranges. A more powerful pump won't necessarily be needed, as the flow rate requirement might actually be lower than with a watercooled rig. 4) This is true. Extremely expensive. And agree with your last statement about it being an interesting experiment, but not for saving money. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: K.A.T on November 25, 2011, 08:48:10 PM Agree guys. It all goes down to cost. Air basically is free. You just need a bunch of fans (and an AC if your in a hot country :( ) to cool your stuff down...... But its worth a try if one does something homemade or custom built without these expensive kits....... Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: SgtSpike on November 25, 2011, 08:55:15 PM Agree guys. It all goes down to cost. Air basically is free. You just need a bunch of fans (and an AC if your in a hot country :( ) to cool your stuff down...... But its worth a try if one does something homemade or custom built without these expensive kits....... Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 25, 2011, 09:10:32 PM Agree guys. It all goes down to cost. Air basically is free. You just need a bunch of fans (and an AC if your in a hot country :( ) to cool your stuff down...... But its worth a try if one does something homemade or custom built without these expensive kits....... Depends on how big the aquarium is. The surface area of the aquarium would determine your c/w however it is going to be low unless we are talking about a bathtub sized surface area. A radiator works because the fins massively increase the surface area and thus rate thermal energy is transferred. Fans assist that by moving cool(er) air over the radiator increasing the delta between radiator's temp and the ambient air temp. Remember nothing is "water cooled" or "oil cooled". Ultimately you are dumping the heat into the air (extreme exceptions aside). "liquid cooling" is simply increasing the surface area. You are cooling a giant radiator with air instead of a relatively small GPU heatsink. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Xenland on November 26, 2011, 01:11:11 AM What about coreocion!?
Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Vanderbleek on November 27, 2011, 07:26:38 AM My though was always surround the parts with mineral oil (in a relatively thin tank, about the size of a normal tower) and then run pipes with chilled water through the oil...You're not pumping oil, and the parts should be protected from condensation by the oil.
Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 08:18:03 AM If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room.
Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: P4man on November 27, 2011, 09:39:08 AM Unless you seal the box hermetically, you have to pump the oil, because you have to filter it. And even if you seal it, you still want movement in the oil to help dissipate the heat.
There have been plenty of experiments with mineral oil, and the consensus is that its doesnt cool better than air (let alone water), it just has the advantage of being completely silent and perhaps looking cool. As for price, if you can achieve sufficient density and scale it may not be that bad. Mineral oil isnt that expensive in volume, most of the other parts you need like pumps, filters, radiators can be used from a car wreck or something. GPU waterblocks and other watercooling components arent cheap either. For a single rig, an oil bath is probably not worth it, but if you have a small farm that you can space efficiently submerge, it might actually be doable. Have a look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U5zoIEjo1Zk Not fun for maintenance though. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 27, 2011, 03:08:36 PM If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room. The suburban equivelent would be to use a heat exchanger and dump the thermal energy into backyard swimming pool. "Free" heat for your pool and a giant thermal sink. Still waterblocks are the most expensive component for cooling and you would still need those. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: P4man on November 27, 2011, 03:12:59 PM Still waterblocks are the most expensive component for cooling and you would still need those. Why would you need waterblocks if you submerge everything in oil? I think the previous poster was talking about cooling the oil with a heatexchanger to a pond . Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 27, 2011, 09:06:59 PM DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks?
By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 27, 2011, 09:39:18 PM DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks? By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? Honest answer ... because people don't really care about energy efficiency because energy is extremely cheap. If energy costs 10x the current price you would see a lot more dual use technologies, higher efficiency appliances, more money spent on insulation, passively cool/warm home designs, skylighting, solar panels, etc. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 29, 2011, 05:00:26 AM It is truly wasteful what we do with our free energy sources. Future generations will truly look back at ours and all will wonder, "How could they have been so stupid?"
Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 06:36:07 AM DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks? By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? What the heck are you talking about? Do you know how AC works? Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 06:39:01 AM DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks? By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? What the heck are you talking about? Do you know how AC works? Do you? Convention AC unit transfer thermal energy to outside air. A geothermal heat pump transfers thermal energy to outside ground water. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to adapt the same technology to transfer thermal energy into a backyard pool. An AC unit is simply a heat pump. It pumps thermal energy from inside the house to outside. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 06:53:58 AM DeathAndTaxes interpreted me correctly but I suppose mineral oil could still be used for the rig. Would all of that mineral-oil equipment really be cheaper than a couple water blocks? By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? What the heck are you talking about? Do you know how AC works? Do you? Convention AC unit transfer thermal energy to outside air. A geothermal heat pump transfers thermal energy to outside ground water. Wouldn't take a rocket scientist to adapt the same technology to transfer thermal energy into a backyard pool. An AC unit is simply a heat pump. It pumps thermal energy from inside the house to outside. To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ? Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 07:02:51 AM To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ? Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air. Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself. Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff. so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside. In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground) In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air. There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter. Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 07:43:50 AM To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ? Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air. Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself. Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff. so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside. In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground) In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air. There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter. Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air. D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know. At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ? Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh? PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 29, 2011, 09:27:36 AM D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know. See D&T, we just don't know what he knows. ;DRe-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal). Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 01:40:25 PM Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler. Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan) vs Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump) Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. ;D On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water: http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674 Quote PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors. Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: SgtSpike on November 29, 2011, 04:34:52 PM To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ? Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air. Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself. Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff. so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside. In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground) In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air. There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter. Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air. D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know. At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ? Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh? PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors. You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling. The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 05:00:54 PM Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler. Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan) vs Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump) Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. ;D On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water: http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674 Quote PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors. Nice experiment but that isn't a heat pump maybe that is why you are confused?LOL First, please stop calling condenser .... a compressor coil. Thats confusing as hell and certainly makes you look.... Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer. Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now? Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource. Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling" If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room. Way to think genius !! Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 05:03:59 PM D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know. See D&T, we just don't know what he knows. ;DRe-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? No, when I was talking about AC, I was talking about dumping the heat to the pool instead of the air, similar to Geothermal which is why he brought it up. The water would not replace the pseudo-freon. The outside radiator on the AC unit would be replaced with a heat exchanger (just like with geothermal). Dont try to make like you know what you're talking about. You're thinking of having the condenser in a pool. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 05:05:44 PM To outside ground water? Are we living in the same planet ? Last time i checked the heat was pumped out by air. Google geothermal heat pump and educate yourself. Second even in a air source heat pump (AC unit is simply a uni-directional heat pump) the heat isn't pumped out BY AIR. The heat is transfered via a working fluid. It use to be freon and now is the enviro friendly stuff. so heat inside ------> working fluid -----> coils outside. In ground source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO ground (either ground water or closed water loop underground) In air source heat pump the heat is pumped INTO the air. There is little difference between a ground source heat pump (aka geothermal heat pump) or an air sourced heat pump. The only thing that changes is where you "dump" the heat. Given the ground stays cool all year round it is more efficient to dump heat there in the summer and pull heat from there in the winter. Maybe you didn't know but in an AC unit the air inside the house stays inside and the air outside the house stays outside. There is no movement of air. D&T get off your high horse cause you dont know what i know. At first the other poster talks about AC and you brought up geothermal? As if its already available for us to buy. Hence i asked if you lived on the same planet. You didnt get the hint and still thought you're educating me ? Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? I built a rack (server rack) using chilled liquid cooling. My controller is a simple Arduino board that connects to sensors to read dewpoint and auto adjust the compressor to have no condensation at the heat block. I guess i dont know how AC works at all eh? PS. btw as the matter of fact, I did use geothermal heat pump. In 2002, after couple years of building liquid cooling system, i got sick of using heatercore (rads werent available for PC yet here), i dug up my ground and buried 100 ft of copper tubing. I used Iwaki pump to push all the liquid thro it. It was more of an experiment. My PC desk has to be by the entrance cause i couldnt route the tubing indoors. You're talking about a non-heatpump underground source of cooling. The other posters are talking about a heatpump whose hotside radiator is modified to be cooled with pool water. Yes and thats a good idea..... to dumb asses Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 05:13:51 PM Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler. Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan) vs Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump) Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. ;D On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water: Quote Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer. No it isn't. The post was about an AC unit in general. An AC is a very effective method of collecting heat to be transfered (either to outside air or outside water). In other words it could be used by anyone who has an AC not just someone w/ a mining rig. Quote Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling" If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room. Way to think genius !! What is wrong with that. First of all that was an unrelated post to the topic of AC units. Using a heat exchanger is smart in an instance like that because the GPU loop can be kept separate from the pool loop (which contains impurities). Granted I see no advantage of using mineral oil but with a heat exchanger it doesn't matter what is in each loop. http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/large/ex-rad-170.jpg Two sealed loops. Only the heat can flow from one loop to the other. Looks like a university computer lab did that some years ago (and yes they properly used a heat exchanger between the two loops): http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/01/07/water-cooling-computers-with-a-swimming-pool/ Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 05:25:40 PM Re-read what he said again, he wanted to run water to the pool as a reservoir and back to the AC. The AC use liquid gas not water. Why would he want an AC if what he said is a liquid cooling setup? hence does he know how AC works? The outside of the AC unit is merely a set of compressor coils there isn't anything that limits it to dumping heat into air. The coils get hot and that heat flows into air (aided by a fan). No reason the hotside can't be cooled w/ pool water. Air is commonly used because it is the cheapest (and least efficient) place to dump heat. If a heat exchanger carrying pool water flowed past the hotside of AC unit then the water would get warmer and the AC unit cooler. Heat inside house -> Working Fluid -> Compressor Coils -> outside air (driven by fan) vs Heat inside house -> Working fluid -> Compressor Coils -> heat exchanger -> Pool Loop (driven by pump) Still confused? Well I don't care enough to help you further. I just found it ironic that you questioned if someone know how an AC unit works when your question indicated a lack of knowledge in yourself. You then cemented that perception by responding. ;D On edit: Looks like some college student wrote a thesis on using waste heat from AC unit to warm pool water: Quote Second, if you're talking about cooling the condenser by using water which then dump heat into the pool then thats essentially what i did in my experience, except the heatsource is the condenser not my computer. No it isn't. The post was about an AC unit in general. An AC is a very effective method of collecting heat to be transfered (either to outside air or outside water). In other words it could be used by anyone who has an AC not just someone w/ a mining rig. Quote Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling" If I lived near a lake or had a pond in my back yard, I would totally pump water through a heat exchanger connected to a conventional water cooling system. One could build walls of systems that are silent and leave very little heat in the room. Way to think genius !! What is wrong with that. First of all that was an unrelated post to the topic of AC units. Using a heat exchanger is smart in an instance like that because the GPU loop can be kept separate from the pool loop (which contains impurities). Granted I see no advantage of using mineral oil but with a heat exchanger it doesn't matter what is in each loop. http://www.frozencpu.com/images/products/large/ex-rad-170.jpg Two sealed loops. Only the heat can flow from one loop to the other. Looks like a university computer lab did that some years ago (and yes they properly used a heat exchanger between the two loops): http://hackedgadgets.com/2007/01/07/water-cooling-computers-with-a-swimming-pool/ Using mineral oil as a mean to carry heat is genius i see... It got nothing to do with using 2 loop to exchange heat of each other. Heck I used water to cool the TEC that cooled another waterloop. Water is alot more efficient to carry heat. This poster just threw out ideas like a genius. The idea of having AC (phase-change) to be cooled by geothermal was to cool the mining rigs, not the room. If you want to have one to cool your room, be my guest. Its stupid to put phasechange in the middle. And yet you started out as David Suzuki. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: cicada on November 29, 2011, 05:50:28 PM Holy. Crap. People.
If you wish to quote someone, please quote only the additions in the previous post, or just the piece you're rebutting against or commenting on. There is no need to quote a giant wall of text to respond to a single point. My finger tires of scrolling. Also, watch your end-quote tag, your responses are getting lost in the grey. Finally, please read carefully before posting angry flame-ups - 80% of this thread is arguing across what appears to be a language barrier. As far as I can tell you're all talking about the same things, but referring to them differently. plastic.elastic, please chill the fuck out. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots, and learn to accept some criticism once in a while for god's sake. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 05:52:33 PM Holy. Crap. People. If you wish to quote someone, please quote only the additions in the previous post, or just the piece you're rebutting against or commenting on. There is no need to quote a giant wall of text to respond to a single point. My finger tires of scrolling. Also, watch your end-quote tag, your responses are getting lost in the grey. Finally, please read carefully before posting angry flame-ups - 80% of this thread is arguing across what appears to be a language barrier. As far as I can tell you're all talking about the same things, but referring to them differently. plastic.elastic, please chill the fuck out. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots, and learn to accept some criticism once in a while for god's sake. Its not criticism, He thinks hes educating me with crap. God has nothing to do with technology. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: cicada on November 29, 2011, 06:04:52 PM .. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots .. God has nothing to do with technology. Case in point. What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism. You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier. Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue. D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum. He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will. Me? I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite. If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 06:09:05 PM .. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots .. God has nothing to do with technology. Case in point. What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism. You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier. Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue. D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum. He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will. Me? I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite. If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement. My post is full sense of humor. D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: shakaru on November 29, 2011, 08:02:11 PM .. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots .. God has nothing to do with technology. Case in point. What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism. You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier. Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue. D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum. He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will. Me? I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite. If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement. My post is full sense of humor. D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise. No one gets what you are saying. A 24 man lab group does not get what your saying. Laughing? Yes, that we are. This is by far the best post of ... "I dont have the facts to back this up..." ever! Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 29, 2011, 08:19:27 PM Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now? You'll notice I never proposed using a pool and AC unit to cool a mining rig. Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource. Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling" Also your last sentence here isn't a sentence. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 08:35:57 PM Third, the dumb poster didnt even think doing this is the most INefficient because you're producing the middleman from liquid to air. Why use AC to cool the room air temp? Who's the dumb ass now? You'll notice I never proposed using a pool and AC unit to cool a mining rig. Either you drop AC all together and use geothermal to cool the heatsource directly (your mining farm) thro or use AC to chill your liquid which carries heat from the heatsource. Yes, the poster doesnt know crap right from the moment he asked if using pool and radiator in his "mineral oil cooling" Also your last sentence here isn't a sentence. maybe you should stick with mineral oil idea. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 08:36:50 PM .. Don't invite the nonsense arguments and then turn to calling everyone idiots .. God has nothing to do with technology. Case in point. What you just did there was respond to a colloquialism. You're either inviting someone to think/call you a fool, or again this is a language barrier. Re-reading the thread, I can't even tell what point you're trying to argue. D&T isn't trying to educate you with crap, this is a public forum. He's adding knowledge to a public place for everyone to read and take what they will. Me? I am pointedly criticizing you, for doing the exact opposite. If you believe a point incorrect, return the favor and rebut with logic and knowledge, not sarcasm and disparagement. My post is full sense of humor. D&T isnt acknowledging anyone. His post is directed at me then pointing out the obvious like i need those crap. Hes not making point when he cant get my point. If you dont get what i'm saying, re read his post. Dont bother to reply otherwise. No one gets what you are saying. A 24 man lab group does not get what your saying. Laughing? Yes, that we are. This is by far the best post of ... "I dont have the facts to back this up..." ever! What is there to back up? idiot Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 08:37:59 PM Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best. Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy. Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 08:40:45 PM Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best. Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy. Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump. oh so we're heating the pool now? Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 08:45:36 PM Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best. Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy. Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump. oh so we're heating the pool now? Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy. If you are going to troll at least read the thread you are trolling. Quote By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? The post that started your thread derail and troll-a-thon wasn't about mining rigs specifically it was about using waste heat from an AC unit. Dual use technology. The pool improves AC unit efficiency (by lowering the ambient temp of hot side) and the wasted heat it used to heat the pool for "free". The consumer saves on heating the pool and on cooling costs. Life is too short to deal w/ sad angry idiots. Welcome to ignore. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 29, 2011, 08:47:45 PM Oh yes, as if cooling condensor is the concern in term of engergy consumption. Your so called proposal is a laughable idea at best. Um... heating pools IS A large consumer of energy. Energy on can get for free by using waste heat. Waste heat like .... the hot side of heatpump. oh so we're heating the pool now? Maybe we should build a green house in the backyard as well, so we can take use of all available energy. If you are going to troll at least read the thread you are trolling. Quote By the way, the pool is an excellent idea! Actually, why don't people's home AC units dump heat to the pool? We could easily manufacture a window AC unit with two tubes and one cable coming out of the back which you run to your pool. On the end of one of the tubes is a tiny pump which pumps water through the AC unit and back to the pool. It would be much cheaper AC and a pool at a comfortable temperature! Why doesn't this exist? The post wasn't about mining rigs specifically it was about using waste heat from an AC unit. The pool improves AC unit efficiency (by lowering the ambient temp of hot side) and the wasted heat it used to heat the pool for "free". Life is too short to deal w/ sad angry idiots. Welcome to ignore. Great idea. because i'm sure the pool would need some heating while you use your AC to cool the house. You're know its fcking hot outside. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: cicada on November 29, 2011, 09:02:55 PM /sigh.. I give up on the wall-of-text thing, is it so hard to edit down a quote?
Anyway, I've been trying to dig up this link, finally found it. This guy's been cooling his PC's with his swimming pool since 2006: http://www.thebuehls.com/pool_cooling/ (http://www.thebuehls.com/pool_cooling/) And he managed it for < $400, it's a neat project at the very least. plastic.elastic, I don't think anyone here is seriously considering modifying a compressor-style AC unit to be water cooled by a pool. I'd be surprised if anyone was seriously considering anything in this thread. Congrats for hitting 200 posts without pissing off an admin enough to get booted. The pool idea makes a great easy-access heat sink if you've got one available. Sure during the summer raising your pool temp to 100F with a rack of miners isn't too great, but hey you can swim any day in November ;) I think i can count on a single hand the number of people I know with pools in CO, however (which is weird, it gets friggin hot here). Geothermal is an excellent, cheap, and energy efficient way to cool your whole house if you've got the acreage for it. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: DeathAndTaxes on November 29, 2011, 09:19:08 PM I don't think anyone here is seriously considering modifying a compressor-style AC unit to be water cooled by a pool. Well there were two different ideas being discussed. One is to use pool as a giant radiator for water cooled rigs. The other is to use pool to absorb the reject heat from AC condenser coils. The efficiency on any heat pump is based on the ambient temp difference between both sides of the heat pump (inside and outside). Using pool water which is cooler than outside air improves the efficiency of the heat pump/AC. Here is one thesis on it: http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674 It looks like it saves money in both cooler and warmer climates. About $50 to $100 per year. In hotter climates most of the savings come from improved AC efficiency. In cooler climates most of the savings come from reduced natural gas consumption to heat the pool. Temperate climates benefit a little from each. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: SgtSpike on November 29, 2011, 09:22:33 PM Great idea. because i'm sure the pool would need some heating while you use your AC to cool the house. You're know its fcking hot outside. Are you really that clueless?People heat pools all the time in the summer. ALL the time. Sure, if it's 100F outside, you're probably not going to need to heat it, but when it's 90F, and the pool is 50F, it's not very comfortable and you get cold rather quickly. So you heat the pool, despite the weather being plenty hot enough to warrant the use of an air conditioner in the house. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: cicada on November 29, 2011, 09:23:44 PM One is to use pool as a giant radiator for water cooled rigs. I need to pass these ideas past the wife. I think I'll either get a pool out of the deal, or piping my radiator through the wall to heat my garage will sound way more reasonable ;) Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: Atheros on November 30, 2011, 03:44:06 AM I need to pass these ideas past the wife. I think I'll either get a pool out of the deal, or piping my radiator through the wall to heat my garage will sound way more reasonable ;) "Come on honey! It's only the size of two Olympic size pools! I need it for my miners!What? Only a regular sized pool? Oh, ok then; if you say so." ^_^ Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 30, 2011, 07:31:05 AM Great idea. because i'm sure the pool would need some heating while you use your AC to cool the house. You're know its fcking hot outside. Are you really that clueless?People heat pools all the time in the summer. ALL the time. Sure, if it's 100F outside, you're probably not going to need to heat it, but when it's 90F, and the pool is 50F, it's not very comfortable and you get cold rather quickly. So you heat the pool, despite the weather being plenty hot enough to warrant the use of an air conditioner in the house. say that in Celcius please i care less for your american standard. Who actually heat the pool in a summer? LOL we use pool to help us thro heat waves. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 30, 2011, 07:40:14 AM I don't think anyone here is seriously considering modifying a compressor-style AC unit to be water cooled by a pool. Well there were two different ideas being discussed. One is to use pool as a giant radiator for water cooled rigs. The other is to use pool to absorb the reject heat from AC condenser coils. The efficiency on any heat pump is based on the ambient temp difference between both sides of the heat pump (inside and outside). Using pool water which is cooler than outside air improves the efficiency of the heat pump/AC. Here is one thesis on it: http://minds.wisconsin.edu/handle/1793/7674 It looks like it saves money in both cooler and warmer climates. About $50 to $100 per year. In hotter climates most of the savings come from improved AC efficiency. In cooler climates most of the savings come from reduced natural gas consumption to heat the pool. Temperate climates benefit a little from each. Nice that you used the proper term, condenser. Sure as hell compressor coil is confusing In cooler weather, i would consider AC to save money..... or NOT The most energy used in a AC is the compressor. Title: Re: Mineral Oil cooled rigs.... Post by: plastic.elastic on November 30, 2011, 07:43:57 AM I'd be surprised if anyone was seriously considering anything in this thread. I'm not. They actually wonder why such device does not exist yet ... ::) They will make one, and i really do hope so. |
