Bitcoin Forum

I have seen encouraging signs of interest from users like Paleus, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5295984.0

The TROLLS, whether nocoiners or big blockers, probably have seen those signs too, and have started another campaign to spread FUD and disinformation.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EoVC9MoW4AEI59k?format=png&name=small

 ::)

I think he's talking about full nodes that mine blocks.

Maybe he will eventually figure out that the world outside the USA also exists (as the New York licensure authorities discovered after their hilarious 'BitLicence')

And who is this guy?
I feel sorry for his followers if he has any who follow him undoubtedly. He is sending the wrong message to them which is not good for them.

In this era of social media everyone thinks that they are something, and they know everything, they always fake. To get attention they do not even mind recording the dead body of their girlfriend in an accidental death.

@Wind_FURY, do you have the link of the tweet?

Edit: I spent last 10 to 15 minutes to find the tweet but it's not there: https://twitter.com/rohangrey/with_replies
Please post me the link if anyone has.

Dude doesn't make any sense. It's almost like owning a knife company and you being criminalized just because one of your customers used one of your knives to murder someone by stabbing.

The sad part is, most of these trolls' words gather more interest and audience than the facts do - moreover, they don't even realize that through trolling they may not affect only part of the community but the entire one. If the USA is contemplating banning unverified addresses, it wouldn't be a surprise if they banned anonymous nodes/mining as well. Trolls are basically giving them shitty ideas the government is stupid enough to turn them into reality at some point.

I heard that these people have a job titled "politician", I think it's some kind of court jester type of role, where people that own or run large predatory business enterprises (and the various hired thugs thereof) use these "politician" people like sock-puppets in a children's story show, where gullible regular people watch the theatrics in the belief that the clowns on the stage are running something called a "nation state" (it's like a village or a tribe, except without any of the personal relationships that make it function in a way that all the members can trust in)

you will have to forgive me if these details are slightly wrong, I'm largely disinterested



as usual, the opponents of Bitcoin can't get their arguments in order.


this is yet another concession by the banking cartels to Bitcoin: they know they cannot conceivably stop the network, or prevent people from understanding it's value. So now they want to tell us how to run the network, these people are full of good jokes!!! The whole vibe is spectacularly desperate, in 12 years they've come up with this plan?

The internet has ultimately become the great leveller, and it is now quite clear that this has been terrifying the incumbent industry chiefs/warlords for quite some time. Bad news guys: you're pretty much finished

Dude wants to filter the legal and illegal tx  :D What about not supporting govt for being illegal and other things? IF HE WOULD FOLLOW SUCH STRATEGY IN REAL LIFE, HE WOULD CERTAINLY NOT EXIST  ;D

Most likely deleted when someone corrected him.

That particular tweet is probably related to the Stablecoin Tethering & Bank Licensing Enforcement (STABLE) Act (https://twitter.com/rohangrey/status/1334258771204325378). I think he's comparing full nodes to banks where funds are being channeled to.

I'm not sure if he's trolling but he doesn't know what he's talking about for sure.

https://twitter.com/rohangrey?s=09 that his bio,
He is a very complex person, he supports stable coins to some extent.
They statement he made spark a lot of conversation yesterday on Twitter but this statement cought my attention.
https://twitter.com/haydenzadams/status/1334375946175066114?s=19.
He is not really again block chain or bitcoin   in general, he see it as a means where illegal transaction are made ...

Clearly he does not know much about Bitcoin, its network over all cryptocurrency. I wanted to respond to him by saying that "if you do not have enough knowledge on a field then please do not make a public statement and send a wrong message to the world especially this is injustice to those people who are following you."

Not much to add bud. You have said enough.

https://i.imgur.com/nqa4fHF.jpg

My understanding of social media celebrities and their followers.

Well, we should prepare for something like that (in the tweet) in the future.
By the way, if a Node is global, I would probably stick to rejecting immoral (rather illegal) transactions to stay safe and without breaking the law of the country I'm running the node in (would be easier to defend this behavior in any country).   Atleast, the country will likely be the one breaking our good network rules by sending unacceptable/immoral transactions through the network.
I think a cryptocurrency network should be moving towards multi-blockchains/sidechains custom Nodes to allow users, nations, companies, etc to filter out transactions/blockchain/nodes they find unacceptable without much problems.

Censorship has no place in decentralised cryptocurrencies. You're moving towards PayPal and other fiat payment methods if you would prefer something like that.

I'm not sure about your country but I don't think there's any case to be made when you're running a node and a (presumably) illegal transaction is relayed through your node. They cannot prove with any certainty that you made the transaction. Your full node acts as an intermediary and does not process the transaction in any way. You have to accept the transaction eventually when it gets to a block. But what do I know? I'm not familiar with how the law is in the various jurisdiction.

Transaction filtering is probably one of the last thing that people want in a decentralised currency.

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I think it's not very nice for people who aren't familiar with cryptos to make sweeping statements like this. It makes them look dumb, just see the Bitcoin YouTube videos from 2013s.

That's the most cringe-worthy uneducated thing I have heard in a long time. I hate people that think they know more about the law than a lawyer.... Like I'm sorry did you study for 10 years?

That's like saying. "If you don't want to found processing illegal transactions then don't use cash" because that cash more than likely was used to buy drugs at some point so I guess that makes you a criminal.
We all criminals. Money laundering, hitman hiring, drug buying criminals.  :P ::)

This is a tweet from Pierre Rochard a Bitcoin advocate in response to Rohan Grey's comment.

https://twitter.com/pierre_rochard/status/1334541672886177793?s=19 (https://twitter.com/pierre_rochard/status/1334541672886177793?s=19)

That comment sparked controversy in the crypto community on Twitter. In response the creator of Uniswap also commented. It is appropriate to know how those who support the laws think.

https://twitter.com/rohangrey/status/1334376485830893576?s=19 (https://twitter.com/rohangrey/status/1334376485830893576?s=19)

Rohan Gray recently posted this tweet.

If you are going to buy that narrative, which has the hidden intention to try and "control" Bitcoin; you might as well run your nodes as hidden service within TOR. There are many of those by the way.

In the end, the old minded people want to impose their obsolete rules to Bitcoin. Indeed, this is no different than granting that wish certain CEO of certain exchange wanted of reverting blockchain transactions (just because he got some money stolen).

Bitcoin will work the same for all or for nobody. If you have a problem with criminals, go prosecute them and leave Bitcoin alone. The State or nobody else has any business discriminating Bitcoin transactions. You should boycott anyone promoting such things.

Yes, this is good. How am I as a user know which transaction is legal and which is illegal? Even if we were able to decide and filter the transactions who would we do it?

Talk about some completely normal things like weed. Someone buys weed in the US and I'm in a country where weed is legal. How should I know if I should or should not process it? Maybe he has a license to buy medical weed or maybe he does not. Maybe he's in a state where it's legal, maybe he's not.

You'd have to be insane to try to find a node operator or a miner located somewhere in another part of the world because his automated software processed a transaction.

That's just pathetic. How would a node or even miners know that the transaction that they co-process are part of some shitty scam or a shady dealing that went south quick? They're just not giving so much sense or thought on these kinds of narrative that they want to get out there. Another form of fear-mongering has come and plagued bitcoin and I just hope to god that people won't buy this thing that is an obvious attack to bitcoin.

By going with that narrative, I guess banks and the government should be held liable to terrorism since they issue the money that is circulating around the economy, in which some % of those are being used to buy weapons in the black market for terrorism. ::)

Ya, or like being criminalized for building an online marketplace where users decide to sell illegal substances.  Wait a minute...

#FreeRoss

Maybe he missed the train and is scared to buy BTC at its nearly ATH? I can't imagine how people try to demotivate others by spreading shit out of their mouth around the corner and what's do funny, they even think that they'll succeed in their plan and get away with it. Pretty dumbass doesn't even know that the so-called transactions are 100% transparent and companies like chainalysis are such big agency names who are completely able to trace any address they're allocated. And by saying all that, does he mean that all those who mined BTC since 2010 are criminals? Is Satoshi Nakamoto a criminal? I don't believe so. The fact is, people are to made aware of both the sides of the coin before they decide whether his shit is real or our truth.

This isn't a new narrative, this has been thrown against Bitcoin ever since some illegal content was discovered embedded in some blocks. And later Craig Wright become big on "Bitcoin is used by criminals".

I don't see this FUD being any more widespread these days than any other FUD, lately with Bitcoin getting close to the ATH, all sorts of FUD topics have started to emerge again, and the moderators of this forum are doing pretty poor job at removing it, so trolls are free to spam a few topics (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5294777.0) every day.

Maybe some bears really want to buy cheaper coins, or maybe nocoiners and shitcoiners are really mad about Bitcoin's price, either way people should be skeptical towards any sensational negative claims, especially if they come from clearly sockpuppet accounts.

Illegal substances are just the hook.   The real money is selling GPS enabled suicide drones with facial recognition.   Bitcoin will make the dream of anonymous murder a reality.  :)

A simple troll, who will say anything to misinform, gaslight, and spread Fear Uncertainty Doubt. The same trolls many posters are scared of debating here in the forum.


I couldn't find the link as well. Someone I follow posted that screenshot.

The tweet says not to process a transaction which is illegal but the question is how will a validator determine if the transaction is illegal or not.
Unless the validator knows the source of the transaction it is quite difficult to determine it's legality.
Also, there's no such law that validating illegal transactions will make anyone liable of criminal charges.
It's clearly a FUD.



10 minutes deep into replies and I found the link. Here it is

https://twitter.com/rohangrey/status/1334376485830893576

Thanks bud. I wasted 10 to 15 minutes without any success on the other day. Guess I am not as good as you on social media :-D

I am now happy because I left him the message that I wanetd to sent him: https://twitter.com/R777btt/status/1335571016433741826?s=20

Another article written about the Stable Act and criminalization of public node operators. This should ask the question, does Paypal have a banking charter? If Paypal begins to use the Ethereum blockchain for payment processing, will the government consider it criminal similar to other smart contract stablecoins? They are similar, they do not have banking charters and licenses.

The Stable Act is broad and this makes it dangerous.



Stablecoins aside, the bill would have dire implications for permissionless blockchains generally. The bill is intended to cover smart-contract-issued stablecoins like Dai. The logical consequence of the bill is that if any person is running software that validates Dai or other stablecoin smart contracts they will, themselves, be violating the law unless they are a chartered bank. Wisely, the bill does not appear to criminalize authoring or distributing that smart contract code because that would almost certainly face strict constitutional scrutiny on First Amendment grounds, as we’ve written about extensively.

Instead, it makes it illegal to run that software. To be clear, that software is the Ethereum network client. An Ethereum node does not discriminate between the various otherwise validly constructed smart contracts, it simply checks the math. If your software can’t discriminate between “legal” and “illegal” smart contracts, the bill’s sponsors might argue, then your choice to run that software is, itself, illegal. By targeting stablecoins this bill would have the effect of also destroying the larger Ethereum network and any other smart-contract-enabled public blockchain as necessary collateral damage.

Source https://www.coincenter.org/the-unintended-consequences-of-the-stable-act/

also US based miners who construct their block templates themselves

if the US taxation plantation were an energy producer of some caliber, this would be slightly more credible. slightly.

^-- does this guy not know that full nodes only verify, and don't process transactions? Miners are the ones that process the transactions by putting them in Merkle trees.

He doesn't seem to know what he's talking about...

Someone said Paxos do (the ones who hold the coins for PayPal), but didn't cite a source, so I'm still not certain about that.  As far as I know, PayPal merely has the New York Bitlicence.

The Crypto industry is filled with such people. You really don't know what is happening. One day you see one info and the other you see contradicting.

Well..... then we will soon see 1000s of people running ToR nodes getting arrested for doing that.... right!  ;D ;D ;D   (Wrong!!)

The thing is, when a legit service is run on the Internet and you participate it that project... you cannot be held liable if that services is used for criminal actions. (Criminals use cellphones to communicate and to scam people ...Do you think the Cellphone providers shareholders and employees will be held liable for that?)  The goal of these projects does not stipulate that it was developed to facilitate crime.. go read the Bitcoin whitepaper.... you did not give consent to run a node to facilitate crime!

How many people have laundered money through Banks or used Bank accounts to scam people. How many Bank shareholders are sitting in jail for that.... or Bank CEO's and board members?

                                                     This will not stand up in court .... so just ignore it.  

typical. windfury.
from now on dont just "see something, paste something"..
instead "see something, research something, form opinion on something"
dont just copy an influencers opinion without checking it out for yourself.

its not "dont run a full node because its illegal"
its "dont run a fullnode THAT PROCESSES ILLEGAL TRANSACTIONS"
emphasis processes
emphasis illegal
this is where its not just any fullnode. but the specific ones that mine or custody vault transactions/value linked to illegal activities

meaning:
dont be a shadow chain orchestrator for a blackmarket
dont be a LN factory for channels that do illegal trades
dont be a exchange for dark markets
dont be a exchange for fiat without a money licence

If you dont want to be liable for processing interstate commerce, dont build highways.

He is right though because you can be part of the conspiracy with illegal transactions if you run a computer as a node (probably full node). All I know is that transactions is being broadcast and accepted by a node to record it to blockchain and then miners will going to confirm it and place to a blockchain. But how could authority prove that you are part of illegal transactions is difficult especially that the roled of node computers is only to accept transaction being broadcast and not to verify whether transaction is an illegal transaction or not.

Personally I have never seen this person before you posted this here, and I would not become a follower of his Twitter page even after I tried to understand what his position about crypto is, read his posts. In my opinion this person just makes posts with his thoughts and that is all. I do not think that his is a big Troll or something like that. He comments about posts of different people, who wrote about stablecoins, decentralised platforms and so on, so it is just hus subjective opinion and that is sll  There are very many people of such kind who is sitting in front of their CPs and think that they are big experts. First of all people should think over by their own brains, who do so they will never pay much attention to such statements. All in all media is a great manipulator of our thoughts, so all information should be filtered very much.

One has to wonder if Rohan is one of the folks behind what Blockseer is trying to do with their tx-censored pool? Per their marketing crap they will process only 'clean' transactions which have been scrutinized by their analytics software (https://stockhouse.com/news/press-releases/2020/10/29/dmg-s-subsidiary-blockseer-launches-bitcoin-mining-pool-focused-on-good)...

Now while the assurance of 'clean' tx's may be helpful to Institutional investors, odds are the mainstream miners will avoid Blockseer and any other pool like them which censors tx's like plague.

OR, like you, he's spreading disinformation and FUD, like the wrong information that you're spreading in the forum about Lightning as a network of IOUs. WRONG.

Typical franky1.

Plus read what he said. He said, "don't run a node", not "don't mine Bitcoin".

the actual words are .. dont run a node that has potential of processing illegal transactions

read the full context and stop knitpicking buzzwords that suite your narrative.
the full context and message is not as you are presuming.

as for your lack of understanding of LN HTLC il make this lesson simple:
they are not 8decimal denominations. nor do HTLC get broadcast.
the settling. transaction is completely different to a HTLC.
you have had 2 years and still oblivious to the full context of LN
the bitcoin blockchain does not understand nor accept millisats.



please do learn about a topic, understand a topic. then form an opinion on a topic based on the full context. not the minimal content someone has shown you and told you to promote.

as you said.
your friend told you about this topics tweet.
maybe next time spend some time learning more before making a post about something a friend tells you

What? Was he saying pools should stop operating? Because they're the nodes that miners connect to. Why didn't he say so? Why say "stop running full nodes"?


For telling you that you are sreading disinformation, NOTHING in what you said proves that Lightning uses IOUs.